The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Freeper on September 11, 2009, 09:54:23 AM
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with their usual class and grace. :whatever:
Loge23 (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Sep-11-09 07:34 AM
Original message
The ash pile of 9/11
Today's anniversary marks 8 tumultuous years since the horror of 9/11/01.
There are literally thousands of families today still nursing the open wounds of their loss, and it is for them that I grieve.
Whatever one thinks about 9/11, thousands of innocent people lost their lives, horribly, just because they showed up for work.
What remains indelible in my mind from that day is symbolic of where this country has gone since then.
The site remains a pit - yes, there is activity; but after eight years our pledge to rebuild - or even place a memorial there - has proved to be beyond our ability.
The sitting President from that day used the tragedy for political gain: invading a country, draining our national resources, and subverting our own civil rights and liberties. The perpetrators are dead, the planners never held accountable, and we still to this day futilely chase their enablers in Afghanistan.
Airports, used as the entry point for a incredibly hard-to-comprehend terrorist operation - in spite of warnings and security safeguards - have now become mini-penal colonies. Some better than others, but try Ft. Lauderdale's Terminal D if you wish to experience the full Kafkaesque treatment.
Our political system lies among the ashes, broken and hopeless.
Our financial system has broken down to a level so low that even the slightest sign of any positive news sparks the irrational exuberance that we passed on the way down a long time ago.
The terrorists of 9/11, regardless of how they were able to pull this off, did not destroy this country that day. They basically flicked their finger at the shell of what our country had already become. They are murderers, for sure; but the ash pile is all ours.
May the lost Rest in Peace.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6520857
RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Sep-11-09 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. 9/11 was an inside job n/t
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Sep-11-09 10:47 AM
Original message
At what point is it appropriate to end the 9/11 maudelinitudinousness?
Edited on Fri Sep-11-09 10:49 AM by Stinky The Clown
Wall to wall 8-year old 9/11 coverage reruns on teevee ......
Can this get ended at some point?
edit to clarify
You know what **** you stinky the brown stain.
:bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6522041
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You know that feeling, when you see a door, and you think you ought not to open it. And then curiousity kicks in so you open it, only to wish you could redo that moment and walk right past the door?
Yeah, that is what I thought when I first saw this thread. Shoulda kept the dang door shut. :banghead:
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Sep-11-09 10:57 AM
Original message
On the anniversary of this tragic day, we remember the sorrow of what we have lost as a nation. Updated at 8:57 AM
The people of America and of other nations who worked in World Trade Center;
The responders who rushed in to try to save the people in those towers;
The long-term and devastating pubic health consequences;
The innocent people of Iraq;
The innocent people of Afghanistan;
The courageous members of our armed forces;
Our Constitutional rights;
Our international reputation;
Our system of justice.
All of these things serve as the burning reminder of what the past eight and one half years of America's betrayal by those who seized power outside the parameters of justice, have wrought.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6522132
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Sep-11-09 10:47 AM
Original message
At what point is it appropriate to end the 9/11 maudelinitudinousness?
Edited on Fri Sep-11-09 10:49 AM by Stinky The Clown
Wall to wall 8-year old 9/11 coverage reruns on teevee ......
Can this get ended at some point?
edit to clarify
Go to Hell.
I was there a$$hole.
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Philosoraptor (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Sep-11-09 07:25 AM
Original message
Regarding 9-11, I'm STILL a proud conspiracy theorist.
I absolutely do not accept the official bush white house story about what happened.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6520831
Lots of MIHOP and LIHOP banter in that thread.
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You know that feeling, when you see a door, and you think you ought not to open it. And then curiousity kicks in so you open it, only to wish you could redo that moment and walk right past the door?
Yeah, that is what I thought when I first saw this thread. Shoulda kept the dang door shut. :banghead:
You and me both.
Hey lurking DUmmies.... :bird: and the horse you rode in on.
And YES you can quote me.
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Of course the DUmmies want this to "just end"...or to be turned into something different that what 9/11 should be.
That's because every year 9/11 is a reminder about how weak and gutless the Democrat Party is when it comes to seeing evil...protecting their fellow citizens from harm...and supporting the Military.
Not to mention it reminds everyone else who doesn't vote for the Communists as well.
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I usually just shake my head or chuckle at DUmmies evil idiocy but on this one all I can say is **** YOU you miserable pieces of shit.
I hope their is a spot in hell reserved for you that will let you live for real the horror of that day and what those victims suffered.
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Of course the DUmmies want this to "just end"...or to be turned into something different that what 9/11 should be.
That's because every year 9/11 is a reminder about how weak and gutless the Democrat Party is when it comes to seeing evil...protecting their fellow citizens from harm...and supporting the Military.
Not to mention it reminds everyone else who doesn't vote for the Communists as well.
:agree: :yeahthat:
ETA: Yours too, neighbor. Hopefully, someone won't spout shit in front of me today.
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What is Sparkly'sBitch doing posting? Those toilets are going to lick themselves clean now...
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I usually just shake my head or chuckle at DUmmies evil idiocy but on this one all I can say is **** YOU you miserable pieces of shit.
I hope their is a spot in hell reserved for you that will let you live for real the horror of that day and what those victims suffered.
Amen brother!
:bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird:
For all you lurking primitives.
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Pitt Stain stays sober long enough to recall 9-11,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6518105
I wont copy it here you can try to read his dribble if you want by clicking the link.
mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-10-09 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. can't we please just get over this national obsession with 9/11...?
Do we have to trot this old horse out every September?
:bird: :bird: :bird: :censored:
Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Sep-11-09 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
31. I remember turning to my husband that day, Sept 11
and saying "The worst thing we can do is attack someone back. We cannot have a knee jerk response to this...The United States sticks its nose into everyone else's countries and then wonders why this happened...maybe this is a moment where they can do some soul searching and look in the mirror"
I still feel that way.
Mari666 apologizing for having the twin towers in the way. :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird:
tucsonlib Donating Member (981 posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-10-09 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. After Tomorrow
..the Obama administration will have "kept America safe" longer than Bush/Cheney managed to do......
Wrong shit stain Obama has done nothing to fight terrorism every thing that has been done was set in motion under Bush. If this is still Bush's economy then this is Bush's safety record too.
:bird: :bird: :bird: :bird: :bird:
ThatsMyBarack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Sep-10-09 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. When I think of 9/11....
I think of the votes that were stolen from President Al Gore 10 months before--and how if they'd only COUNTED EVERY VOTE, we may still have the Twin Towers today. :(
They counted every vote and you just didn't like the results. Plus what the **** would have mr global warming done anyway? Make the terrorists pay for carbon credits?
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December 7th has been remembered for 68 years....
9/11 for 8....
gonna be remembered for a looooooong time.
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December 7th has been remembered for 68 years....
9/11 for 8....
gonna be remembered for a looooooong time.
Wonder if we should say that Pearl harbor day was FDR's failure. Heck there are just as many conspiracy theories that dec,7 was LIHOP.
Naw we have more class than that. And unlike the DUmmies we are grateful to those who won that war on all fronts even the countries that never attacked us directly.
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imax2268 (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Sep-11-09 11:50 AM
Original message
Sorry, but I don't want to be reminded about today...
Is that wrong? Is it wrong for me to not want to be reminded about what happend a few years ago on this date...?
It's tragic what happend, and I feel for those who lost loved ones, but I'm past it...sorry...
Is that wrong for me to think this way...?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6522637
Is it ok that I am past Ted Kennedy's passing?
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They counted every vote and you just didn't like the results. Plus what the **** would have mr global warming done anyway? Make the terrorists pay for carbon credits?
President Gore Reaches Agreement With Taliban
Payments Transferred to Afghan National Reserve Bank As Early As Next Week
Washington AP - The White House announced today that a deal has been brokered between the U.S. and the Taliban government in Afghanistan ending 4 years of terrorist attacks on the U.S. that crippled infrastructure and halted the financial markets.
With the construction on the new Capitol Dome as a backdrop, President Al Gore announced that a deal had been made.
"It's a great day for America and the American people." the President triumphantly declared. "Now we can get down to the job of rebuilding a new, greener America for future generations."
The U.S. Government was finally forced to accept the Taliban deal, brokered by U.N. chief Vladamir Putin after the latest round of passenger airliner attacks killed 5,300 civilians in Chicago when a United Airlines 777ER bound for Japan was smashed into the Sears Tower and what Chicago police estimate was up to a half dozen suicide bombers detonated their devices at a sold out Chicago Cubs game at Wrigley Field, causing the entire upper section along the third base line to collapse onto fans in the mezzanine and box seat areas.
Sources close to the talks say that the U.S. will pay the Afghan regime nearly $20 billion a year for the next 20 years as restitution for what is being called "world atrocities" and "a history of global hegemony". Part of that sum will go to the families of suicide bombers who were forced to become martyrs for the resistance of the Western Infadels.
The U.S. also must give up it's seat on the U.N. security council, submit the entire senior leadership of the units involved in the 2001 Operation Mountain Lion engagement in Afghanistan and the senior leaders of the Divisions and Corps involved in the 2003 invasion of Iraq to the International Criminal Court in the Hague for war crimes trials.
White House Press Secretary David Allen said that now that the U.S. has begun to make amends for past atrocities "we can now look forward to a brigher day as a partner with the rest of the world. This agreement is good for the country and for the global community as well."
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Damn, that's good, TxRadioGuy.
Awesome.
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Damn, that's good, TxRadioGuy.
Awesome.
I feel like I need to take a shower after writing stuff like that. It scares me that I can write that way.
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I feel like I need to take a shower after writing stuff like that. It scares me that I can write that way.
That was good actually. Scary but, good.
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That was good actually. Scary but, good.
I think what makes it scary is that...given the track record of Liberals in our lifetime...we can all envision that as an actual headline...because we know that's how the Libs would behave if they could get away with it.
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I think what makes it scary is that...given the track record of Liberals in our lifetime...we can all envision that as an actual headline...because we know that's how the Libs would behave if they could get away with it.
Oh yeah no doubt.
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I think what makes it scary is that...given the track record of Liberals in our lifetime...we can all envision that as an actual headline...because we know that's how the Libs would behave if they could get away with it.
what makes it scary is that the Sears Tower and Cubs game situations could actually happen....
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I won't even waste my anger on these dirtbags. I choose to focus my energy on the fallen who perished that way and the brave ones who stood up to fight for our country.
SCREW YOU DU. You're not worthy of my indignation. You're insignificant gutter trash.
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Absolutely disgusting. Yeah, they all want to quit 'remembering' 9/11 but ****ing KATRINA should be remembered forever!
They can all bite my ass. Everyone of them.
KC
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what makes it scary is that the Sears Tower and Cubs game situations could actually happen....
Best way to stop a terrorist is to think like a terrorist.
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Best way to stop a terrorist is to think like a terrorist.
Which is what you wonderful people in our military do. :bow:
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Best way to stop a terrorist is to think like a terrorist.
I recently read a novel set before 2008 where a civil war broke out. What the terrorists did was used a plan written by a Major who worked at the Penatagon. His job was to think up the scenarios how the bad guys could kill the President and the Secret Service would come up with ways to counter that. Someone leaked his plan and the terrorists used it to kill the POTUS, the VP, and Sec of state. The progressive movement then started attacking law enforcement in the major cities and forced the states to draft legislation to be part of the new progressive govt. It was called Empire by Orson Scott Card.
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I recently read a novel set before 2008 where a civil war broke out. What the terrorists did was used a plan written by a Major who worked at the Penatagon. His job was to think up the scenarios how the bad guys could kill the President and the Secret Service would come up with ways to counter that. Someone leaked his plan and the terrorists used it to kill the POTUS, the VP, and Sec of state. The progressive movement then started attacking law enforcement in the major cities and forced the states to draft legislation to be part of the new progressive govt. It was called Empire by Orson Scott Card.
You ever wonder how much terrorists could learn from fiction books, tv shows or movies on some of this stuff? :o
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You ever wonder how much terrorists could learn from fiction books, tv shows or movies on some of this stuff? :o
Yes I do. I believe Tom Clancy wrote about a similar attack that they used on 9-11 in one of his books before it happened.
Its amazingly easy for the human mind to dream up evil things to do luckily most of us would never carry them out.
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Yes I do. I believe Tom Clancy wrote about a similar attack that they used on 9-11 in one of his books before it happened.
Its amazingly easy for the human mind to dream up evil things to do luckily most of us would never carry them out.
I read some time ago, that the CSI shows and those similar, were having to change how they were "solving" crimes as they were being to literal and criminals were learning to much from them.
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I read some time ago, that the CSI shows and those similar, were having to change how they were "solving" crimes as they were being to literal and criminals were learning to much from them.
Whoever said TV isn't educational was wrong. :-)
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Sep-11-09 02:37 PM
Original message
I don't understand why 9/11 made people feel patriotic.
So many people were murdered in 2001, why were those 2,993 more special than the other victims of violence?
Why did GWB's popularity rise on 9-11-01?
I was watching the news that day and I did not feel particularly patriotic, I did not like GWB any more than the previous day, I did feel any more sad for those victims of violence than any other victim of violence.
The only reason I can think of is the fact these victims of violence were on TV, and therefore, more real than other victims of violence in people's minds, but I would like to think more of my fellow humans.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6524363
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Sep-11-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. It doesn't make sense. It's that sports mob mentality, I think. We all know it was MIHOP anyway. nt
:mental: :mental: :mental: :mental: :mental: :mental:
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Yes I do. I believe Tom Clancy wrote about a similar attack that they used on 9-11 in one of his books before it happened.
Its amazingly easy for the human mind to dream up evil things to do luckily most of us would never carry them out.
I believe that was called Debt of Honor.
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Yes I do. I believe Tom Clancy wrote about a similar attack that they used on 9-11 in one of his books before it happened.
Its amazingly easy for the human mind to dream up evil things to do luckily most of us would never carry them out.
He also wrote the novel "The SUm OF All Fears" which has Palestinian terrorists detonating a nuke at the Super Bowl.
Debt Of Honor is the one where the JAL pilot plunges his 747-400 full of fuel into the dome of the Capitol during a joint session of Congress.
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Absolutely disgusting. Yeah, they all want to quit 'remembering' 9/11 but ****ing KATRINA should be remembered forever!
They can all bite my ass. Everyone of them.
KC
It really speaks to how foolish they are that they want a natural event remembered with every ounce of vitriol we have(who should we be mad at? God? the divergence of weather systems? The dynamics of moisture heavy air over the Atlantic in the summer time? You know something anyone on those coasts KNOW could potentially happen
OVER a vile incident created by misguided and violent Muslims whom we are still at battle with for the sake of civilization. You know, we should forget something that involved people taking advantage of our trust and openness of a nation. We should forget so it can happen all over again.
What does it profit us to remember Katrina? Save from being a bit better prepared, we can not stop nature's wrath ultimately, but 9/11 is something we CAN address. It's not about preperation alone, but battling the evil head on and pushing it back.
I'll give them at least a toast to consistency mostly like *IF* they also want to forget the iconic moments the left loves to rehash:Matthew Shephard, Stonewall, Abu Gharib....
shit, the stupid hippies over there are still climaxing over Woodstock even though it happened 40 years ago. They are so transparent as to be laughable. I think what I find most absurd is they can't see their own hypocrisy in anything. They have absolutely no moral compass that makes them feel a little ashamed of the fact that they apply a double standard to historical events and who/what is involved in them.
I agree wtih others; they want to forget this only because it highlights the failings during the reign of the 'great' Bill Clintoon. They know this at their very core no matter how much they want to blame Bush just because he was the sitting president 8 months in. They know this required more then 8 months planning and that much of the planning went on and the weaknesses found during the Clinton years. They only waited for their opportunity to act.
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He also wrote the novel "The SUm OF All Fears" which has Palestinian terrorists detonating a nuke at the Super Bowl.
Debt Of Honor is the one where the JAL pilot plunges his 747-400 full of fuel into the dome of the Capitol during a joint session of Congress.
I recall sum of all fears. I kind of figured that may have inspired your story.
:-)
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It really speaks to how foolish they are that they want a natural event remembered with every ounce of vitriol we have(who should we be mad at? God? the divergence of weather systems? The dynamics of moisture heavy air over the Atlantic in the summer time? You know something anyone on those coasts KNOW could potentially happen
OVER a vile incident created by misguided and violent Muslims whom we are still at battle with for the sake of civilization. You know, we should forget something that involved people taking advantage of our trust and openness of a nation. We should forget so it can happen all over again.
What does it profit us to remember Katrina? Save from being a bit better prepared, we can not stop nature's wrath ultimately, but 9/11 is something we CAN address. It's not about preperation alone, but battling the evil head on and pushing it back.
Not to mention that the 'victims' of Katrina had well over a week to be prepared. How much time did those on 9/11 have? One was a natural event and one was man made and the DUmmies want to forget the one that was a direct assault on our nation ON PURPOSE.
They make me ill with their bullshit.
KC
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I recall sum of all fears. I kind of figured that may have inspired your story.
:-)
Mine was based on seeing how the Clinton administration treated al-qaeda and how they reacted or didn't to attacks from 1992 - 2001.
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Mine was based on seeing how the Clinton administration treated al-qaeda and how they reacted or didn't to attacks from 1992 - 2001.
I meant the cub games getting bombed not the whole thing.
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Not to mention that the 'victims' of Katrina had well over a week to be prepared. How much time did those on 9/11 have? One was a natural event and one was man made and the DUmmies want to forget the one that was a direct assault on our nation ON PURPOSE.
They make me ill with their bullshit.
KC
Same here, my friend. :(
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I meant the cub games getting bombed not the whole thing.
Ahh..well Chicago seemed the next obvious target IMHO...like they had it planned out by time zone.
Thankfully we'll never know because they grounded the planes. No telling how many were denied their change at their 72 virgins that day.
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Ahh..well Chicago seemed the next obvious target IMHO...like they had it planned out by time zone.
Thankfully we'll never know because they grounded the planes. No telling how many were denied their change at their 72 virgins that day.
The rumors were quite rampant that day that we were going to get hit in Chicago. I worked somewhat near O'Hare, and my wife worked just north of the loop, very near the Hancock & Sears Towers. I was pretty petrified.
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The rumors were quite rampant that day that we were going to get hit in Chicago. I worked somewhat near O'Hare, and my wife worked just north of the loop, very near the Hancock & Sears Towers. I was pretty petrified.
Yeah I remember at one point hearing on the news that they were actually evacuating the Sears Tower.
Didn't Mayor Daley use 9/11 as an excuse to shut down Meigs Field?
I got my computer pilots license flying out of there on Flight Simulator :-)
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Yeah I remember at one point hearing on the news that they were actually evacuating the Sears Tower.
Didn't Mayor Daley use 9/11 as an excuse to shut down Meigs Field?
I got my computer pilots license flying out of there on Flight Simulator :-)
They did evacuate the Sears Tower, and some other downtown buildings.
Daley had a number of reasons, including 9/11 to close Meigs. It pissed off a lot of people, including you Flight Simulator geeks. :-) Seriously though, his wife wanted to replace it with a garden of all things, and that's pretty much how the story ended up.
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Not to mention that the 'victims' of Katrina had well over a week to be prepared. How much time did those on 9/11 have? One was a natural event and one was man made and the DUmmies want to forget the one that was a direct assault on our nation ON PURPOSE.
They make me ill with their bullshit.
KC
They don`t give a damn about one person in NO they view Katrina as a "win" politically and that is what it means to them.
In contrast 9/11 proves their self absorbed socialist desires to be fatally flawed in perspective so it was a political "loss" to them.
Sick rotten bastards every last damn one of them.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Sep-11-09 10:47 AM
Original message
At what point is it appropriate to end the 9/11 maudelinitudinousness?
Edited on Fri Sep-11-09 10:49 AM by Stinky The Clown
Wall to wall 8-year old 9/11 coverage reruns on teevee ......
Can this get ended at some point?
edit to clarify
Never you ****tard!!!!!! :bird: 9/11 should never be forgotten. You're just mad that your idol, Salvador Allende go overthrown by Augusto Pinochet. Too bad.
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Absolutely disgusting. Yeah, they all want to quit 'remembering' 9/11 but ******* KATRINA should be remembered forever!
They can all bite my ass. Everyone of them.
KC
Katrina affected everyone, not just New Orleans. Also, we were whacked by Ike and that was bad too, but no cities were destroyed and no one whined like after Katrina.
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Katrina affected everyone, not just New Orleans. Also, we were whacked by Ike and that was bad too, but no cities were destroyed and no one whined like after Katrina.
The only place the whining came from was NOLA. All other affected by Katrina just picked up and carried on.
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The only place the whining came from was NOLA. All other affected by Katrina just picked up and carried on.
Oh yeah. St. Bernard Parish, Slidell, and Coastal Mississippi got whacked really badly and they are recovering in every way possible. If New Orleans was not stuck with all the bickering and media attention, they would be recovering like outside of the city.
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Katrina affected everyone, not just New Orleans. Also, we were whacked by Ike and that was bad too, but no cities were destroyed and no one whined like after Katrina.
I've been through Rita and Ike since Katrina happened. Both of them have been tossed in the dustbin of history but Katrina lives on. There is something wrong with that. Not that I think Rita and Ike should still be out there but that Katrina should go away too.
Not only do we still remember Katrina but we are still PAYING for it. I don't think they have removed those freeloaders from the gov't tit yet. I could be wrong but I think they are still drawing gov't checks.
KC
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I've been through Rita and Ike since Katrina happened. Both of them have been tossed in the dustbin of history but Katrina lives on. There is something wrong with that. Not that I think Rita and Ike should still be out there but that Katrina should go away too.
Not only do we still remember Katrina but we are still PAYING for it. I don't think they have removed those freeloaders from the gov't tit yet. I could be wrong but I think they are still drawing gov't checks.
KC
And it was the Bush administration that gave them money. Which is odd considering how the DUmmies cry that he left them to die.