The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Freeper on August 31, 2009, 06:22:03 PM
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Aug-31-09 05:58 PM
Original message
The total illogic of the "Personal Responsibility" meme of the right wing.
Have you noticed all the "personal responsibility" arguments against government health care from the right lately?
Here's how it went with a wingnut I spoke to: We can't have or handle government health care like the Europeans have because we don't take personal responsibility for our health in this country. Presumably, the argument is that if we DID take such responsibility we could avoid the health care crisis we are currently in. So is more health care essentially BAD for our health?
I argued in favor of health care like they have in France. Well, you see, it seems the French are slimmer, healthier, eat better so it's OK that they have government health care (stay with me in this argument; I know it makes no sense). But, I say, if I am French and have lost my job I don't have to worry about my health care because, job or no job, I still have it. In this country, losing your job can be a catastrophic event in terms of health care. So which population would have the incentive of taking care of their health, the Americans or the French?
Does this make any sense? Does anything make any sense in the health care debate anymore?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6432859
You got me sparky, I have no idea what you are arguing.
YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Aug-31-09 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. The 'personal accountabilty' is for us. Not them. Updated at 4:53 PM
Otherwise the entire military would be full of young republicans and they'd pay for the wars using their own tax money.
The military is full of young repukes you idiot.
And we do pay taxes with our own money.
ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Aug-31-09 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. Personal responsibility is just the latest code word racism
i.e. white people are where they are because they are somehow superior and got their own their own and black people are where they are because they are inferior and therefore we shouldn't be forced to help them.
It is REALLY about destroying the role of government and trying to turn the clock back to before FDR when corporations and the rich ran everything but they are playing on people's racism and sense of self superiority in a very insidious way to do it.
Personal responsibility is fine as far as it goes but it fails to recognize that many things in life are simply beyond our control like natural disasters, crime, being laid off, catching a disease, being able to afford the schools necessary to get the training to get the job, etc., etc.
The same people who make this argument on health care are the same ones who blame New Orleanians for being victims of Hurricane Katrina because they didn't leave town - THEY COULDN'T LEAVE TOWN.
It's racism.
Of course the old "racism" argument.
I've figured it out when they can't debate logically they just scream racism.
The same people who make this argument on health care are the same ones who blame New Orleanians for being victims of Hurricane Katrina because they didn't leave town - THEY COULDN'T LEAVE TOWN.
I dunno they could have walked if need be. I know if I was in that situation my two feet would get me out of there.
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But, I say, if I am French and have lost my job I don't have to worry about my health care because, job or no job, I still have it.
I still say that the obsession with free health care boils down to this issue.
It means having a job and that is what they want to opt out of.
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I already posted this to another thread, but it looks like it will pertain to this thread also......
Well, it appears our African-American friends have found yet something else to be pissed about.
A black congresswoman (this would be Sheila Jackson Lee, of Houston), reportedly complained that the names of hurricanes are all Caucasian sounding names.
She would prefer some names that reflect African-American culture such as Chamiqua, Tanisha, Woeisha, Shaqueal, and Jamal.
I am NOT making this up!
She would also like the weather reports to be broadcast in "language" that street people can understand because one of the problems that happened in New Orleans was that black people couldn't understand the seriousness of the situation, due to the racially biased language of the weather report.
I guess if the weather person says that the winds are going to blow at 140+ MPH, that's too hard to understand!
I can hear it now:
A weatherman in New Orleans says...
Wazzup, mutha-fukkas! Hehr-i-cane Chamiqua be headin' fo' yo ass like Leroy on a crotch rocket! Bitch be a category fo'! So, turn off dem chitlins, grab yo' chirren, leave yo crib, and head fo' de nearest FEMA office fo yo FREE shit!
That Shiela Jackson Lee is a real riot, ain't she?
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ddeclue
Personal responsibility is just the latest code word racism
Using the "racism" argument is just another coded phrase for racism.
.
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I already posted this to another thread, but it looks like it will pertain to this thread also......
That Shiela Jackson Lee is a real riot, ain't she?
Shelia Jackson Lee sounds white to me. Shame on her parents for not naming her a good african name. :-)
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-31-09 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. The 'personal accountabilty' is for us. Not them.
Otherwise the entire military would be full of young republicans and they'd pay for the wars using their own tax money.
And otherwise the primitives would enlist in the War On Poverty, giving away all but the global "average" per capita private wealth, that each of them owns, to those poorer than the primitives.
Figures are murky, but it appears circa $137 is the global "average" per capita private wealth, and so the primitives need to give all they own, in excess of that, to those poorer than they, so as to be good soldiers.
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Otherwise the entire military would be full of young republicans and they'd pay for the wars using their own tax money.
Now there is a stupid statement!
One of the main reasons DUmmies hate the military is because it's predominantly Republican (and Christian).
And nearly all the tax money, regardless its use, comes from us.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Aug-31-09 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. The 'personal accountabilty' is for us. Not them. Updated at 4:53 PM
Otherwise the entire military would be full of young republicans and they'd pay for the wars using their own tax money.
The military is full of young repukes you idiot.
And we do pay taxes with our own money.
:rotf: :rotf: :bow: :rotf: :rotf:
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"Personal responsibility" = racism?
huh?
Are they saying minorities can't possibly be responsible for their own actions?
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"Personal responsibility" = racism?
huh?
Are they saying minorities can't possibly be responsible for their own actions?
That is a bedrock principle of the modern democrat party.
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That is a bedrock principle of the modern democrat party.
Then they are the true racists. Maybe someone should slap them.
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Of course the DUmba**es equate "personal responsibility" with racism, they wouldn't know what the **** personal resposibility was, even if it painted itself purple and danced naked in fromt of them.
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You can't make this stuff up. I don't know whether to thank GOD for the comedy that is DU or ask him to smite it.
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"Personal responsibility" = racism?
huh?
Are they saying minorities can't possibly be responsible for their own actions?
Yes they are, and racist for being minorities that are not responsible for their own racist actions.
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I am continually amazed at the contortions the Little Goons go through to justify never taking responsibility for their actions and badmouthing those of us that do.
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You can't make this stuff up. I don't know whether to thank GOD for the comedy that is DU or ask him to smite it.
Right now I am completely sick and tired of all of them. I vote for smite.
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12. Personal responsibility is just the latest code word racism
Oh ok!....So I guess that means that when you put a condom on it's racist? When a woman takes birth control it's racist and When a woman gets an abortion it's racist as well? :whatever:
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Alrighty. Now I am confused. Last week the DU told me that personal responsibility = greed. This week, personal responsibility = racism. Wonder what treat they have in store for me next week? So far, I am a greedy racist.
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Alrighty. Now I am confused. Last week the DU told me that personal responsibility = greed. This week, personal responsibility = racism. Wonder what treat they have in store for me next week? So far, I am a greedy racist.
Next week is Homophobe.
Personal responsibility will = whatever the hell the Libs feel like at any give time.
And at no time do they EVER make it something good and something that should be praised.
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Next week is Homophobe.
Duh. Too easy. Shoulda seen that one coming.
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I wish they'd figure out which box the military belongs in. Today it appears they're all smart, responsible leftists (despite the general anti-war, anti-gun stance on that side of the political aisle), next time they'll be uneducated, small town conservative Christian hicks with no other alternatives. I honestly wish I could figure out how they actually twist themselves into believing the military is liberal. I've met plenty of Marines (even a couple of Athiests and a Wiccan) none were liberal, not one.
Cindie
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I wish they'd figure out which box the military belongs in. Today it appears they're all smart, responsible leftists (despite the general anti-war, anti-gun stance on that side of the political aisle), next time they'll be uneducated, small town conservative Christian hicks with no other alternatives. I honestly wish I could figure out how they actually twist themselves into believing the military is liberal. I've met plenty of Marines (even a couple of Athiests and a Wiccan) none were liberal, not one.
Cindie
Beautiful thing about Liberalism (to the Libs that is)...is the ability to take any side of any topic or issue so as to never...EVER be wrong.
Trying to pin them down is like trying to pin down mercury.
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I stopped reading when I came to "Personal responsibility is racist" or some such. I just can't take it anymore. This thread is a reeking pulsing rotting swamp of stupid.
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The same people who make this argument on health care are the same ones who blame New Orleanians for being victims of Hurricane Katrina because they didn't leave town - THEY COULDN'T LEAVE TOWN.
I love it when the idiots over there spout this crap. Anyone that lives or has lived in the "Big Easy" knows how large the dependent on govt population is. Funny how all the public housing complexes have huge parking lots. and there were sure enough cars in the 9th ward after the flood water receded.
When I moved there, the very first thing I was told concerning a hurricane was to get out of town. It will flood. Health care is not a right because an individual depends on someone else to provide their time, talent and resources to give it. I tell my kids that your rights are free, no charge to you or cost to another. If it cost money, it is not a right.
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From Boortz today:
Let's take a look at New Orleans before Katrina struck. Here are some statistics from City Journal:
"New Orleans's poor population includes a sizable underclass. Before Katrina struck, fully 10 percent of New Orleanians lived either in public housing or Section 8 housing, far above the rates in Houston or New York. Only 36 percent of New Orleans's adults were married, compared with more than 49 percent in Houston, and more than half of mothers were unmarried, compared with 28 percent in Houston. In some New Orleans neighborhoods, only a quarter of the children lived with married parents. More than two-thirds of female-headed black households lived in poverty. Though many of New Orleans's underclass had moved from idleness into low-wage, tourist-trade jobs over the past decade, thanks to federal welfare reform and an abundance of such work in the city, their family structures and social skills hadn't improved along with this fledgling work ethic. The concentration of weak families partly explains why the city endured some of the nation's highest violent-crime rates."
Who were these people described in City Journal? Many of them were the people who were put on busses and sent to places like Houston. It didn't take any great amount of brainpower to see how this was going to work out for Houstonians. I can remember the day that the busses rolled out of New Orleans on Interstate 10. I told my listeners "Houston, you have a problem." What kind of a problem? Here's more from City Journal:
"Houston has slowly acknowledged, Katrina evacuees pushed up Houston's rates for some crimes, particularly homicide, not just the raw number of offenses. Houston's post-Katrina crime surge is an extension of the pre-Katrina violence of New Orleans's criminal underclass. Before Katrina, New Orleans had the highest murder rate of any big U.S. city, almost four times Houston's, with 58 people killed per year for every 100,000 citizens. The murder numbers Houston has racked up since Katrina prove that violent New Orleanians haven't changed their ways, but only their scenery.
Since Katrina, Houston police have identified New Orleans evacuees as either suspects or victims (or often both) in more than 30 Houston-area homicides. Of an evacuee population of 175,000, this works out to a per-capita annual murder rate of about 34 per 100,000, well above Houston's pre-Katrina rate. News of violent murders committed by and against Katrina evacuees has created a bit of a backlash in Houston. In a recent Rice University poll of Houston-area residents, two-thirds of the participants blamed Katrina evacuees for the crime spike and for a "considerable strain" on community resources.
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The Katrina refugee issue has brought some unsavoriness to the Dallas area as well. It is a shame, but, it is the truth.
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Then they are the true racists. Maybe someone should slap them.
Many minority groups don't care about the inherent racism in democratic beliefs precisely because they benefit from that kind of racism. In essence it makes the whole racist cry a sham.
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Melissa Harris-Lacewell is Associate Professor of Politics and African American Studies at Princeton University (http://www.melissaharrislacewell.com/about.html). She is the author of the award-winning book, Barbershops, Bibles, and BET: Everyday Talk and Black Political Thought, (Princeton 2004). And she is currently at work on a new book: Sister Citizen: A Text For Colored Girls Who've Considered Politics When Being Strong Wasn't Enough. Her academic research is inspired by a desire to investigate the challenges facing contemporary black Americans and to better understand the multiple, creative ways that African Americans respond to these challenges.
What's The Role Of Race In Health Care Fracas?
August 14, 2009
Is race the subtext for some of the attacks on the Obama administration's attempt at a health care overhaul? Or is that a misleading argument? Melissa Harris-Lacewell, African-American Studies professor at Princeton, and Tony Blankley, who was press secretary to former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, discuss the subject with Melissa Block. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111899507&ft=1&f=1015)
>>>
Prof. HARRIS-LACEWELL: Sure. So in this case, one of the things that I'm hearing from people at the town hall meetings is anxiety about illegal immigrants coming in and taking over. The other thing I hear a great deal is this question of the public option somehow keeping Americans from taking responsibility for their own health-care provision.
And what we know over the past 25 years is that language of personal responsibility is often a code language used against poor and minority communities.
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I do worry about whether or not, at least for some of those opponents of health-care reform, that part of what they're saying is a reflection of an anxiety about: I want an America back where African-Americans, where Latinos, where women were truly second-class citizens rather than first-class, equal members with a full right to govern.
More of her opinions:
But there is another insidious effect: (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/melissa-harrislacewell-and-james-perry/katrina-nation_b_267571.html)our often racially separate worlds can breed prejudice, distrust, and misunderstanding. In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina national public opinion research revealed huge racial differences in how Americans perceived the disaster and how they thought the country should respond. In a similar way New Orleans politics has been deeply racially divided since the storm. Many votes of the city council have split along racial lines and race has been used as a wedge too many times.
These same patterns are obvious in American politics. Despite the historic election of our first African American president, race has often taken center stage in current national politics, infecting everything from immigration discussions to the health care reform debate.
Judging from the first article, which side is it that insists race is infecting the health care reform debate?
Standard lib tactic...tell a lie often enough, and get it repeated enough times...and eventually many people will consider it true. ::) ::)
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And what we know over the past 25 years is that language of personal responsibility is often a code language used against poor and minority communities.
Its not a code word for anything you knucklehead. It means precisely what it looks to mean and that is IF you want to be in control of your own life, then take control of your own life. Make wise decisions that will help you in life and not hinder you.If you make a mistake, learn from it and move on and do something different. If it seems it is disproportionately applied to the 'poor' and 'minority' communities, then perhaps that says something about the values in those communities where being in charge of one's life beyond being rampant consumerism and collectors of bling is non-existent. What amazes me is that so many mush heads probably sit here and think this woman knows what she is talking about because of all her pedigrees when the argument she is trying to make is crap and easily argued against. I would submit to her that she makes anything that requires people to take a look at their own behavior about something it is not in order to deflect responsibility and continue negative behaviors and perpetuate cycles in the interest of keeping things status quo. What would be her motivation? Well either she is a well-educated idiot that bought every line of crap she was fed, she has her own issues that keep her from accepting reality because accepting a myth is far easier then blaming mom, dad, or herself, or she gains something personally by encouraging irresponsible behavior in other people and then projecting that behavior on to others.
So for any poor or minority reading this, are you satisfied to keep being a loser in life so that this woman can be 'right' and have a job or does your own life have enough value that you will stop pointing the finger at others and do what it takes to be successful or have a safe community or work for the things you want in life? Isn't this one of those times that you would like someone like this to be wrong? Everyone has obstacles in life EVERYONE! There isn't one of us who does not have our cross to bear in some way whether it is being shy, having a low self-opinion, having a family member who is ill we must care for, or being born into a poor family. The beauty of life in the states is you were born into a country where your doors are WIDE open. You may have to rise above some shit that your family has saddled you with by how they raised you or the community they raised you in, but it is not insurmountable. There are people who have suffered some pretty horrific things who manage to conquer their disadvantages...being born 'poor' in a rich country with opportunities galore is a relatively small hurdle by comparison.