The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Freeper on August 25, 2009, 04:36:38 PM
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Aug-25-09 03:19 PM
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What the 2012 DNCC platform needs: support for a self-sufficient military Updated at 3:23 PM
Just learned that the White House is extending contracts to Blackwater and other mercenary units. Meanwhile, Halliburton and KBR are still making money hand over fist doing the jobs that our military is supposed to do - and our soliders continue to suffer for it.
I know this whole concept of privatizing the military started in the mid 90s. Maybe we can't kill this policy immediately, but it's time to start sharpening the knives.
It's time to insist that our military sustain itself once again. For starters, no more private security contractors being deployed on missions that our soldiers are supposed to handle. If the Pentagon needs to solicit advice from retired Special Forces and SEALs, that's fine, but that shouldn't mean allowing mercenaries to play soldier under the US flag without accountability to anyone, especially if their CEO has delusions of holy war or some other damn fool idealistic crusade.
Basic food and drink are another sensitive issue. I know the military relies on the private sector for MREs to nourish soldiers in combat zones, but do you mean to tell me there isn't anyone in the US military who is capable of making a pizza? Why outsource this to corporations in the form of lucrative contracts that you and I have to pony up the money for in taxes?
Then there's armor and weapons for our troops. Private-sector companies like VLTOR, Pinnacle Armor, Propper, Blackhawk, Lewis Machine & Tool, EoTech, Aimpont - God bless 'em for trying to keep our soldiers safe, but there have been too many instances where soldiers received gear not because it's the best for their needs, but rather because of who knows who at the Pentagon or the White House. And again, as a result, our troops have occasionally suffered because of inferior gear.
I could go on, but I think my fellow DUers see where I'm going with all this. We want our military to be strong, but it will be its strongest when it is self-sufficient, when its commanders are able to meet the needs of the enlisted men and women on the front lines without lobbyists, corporate reps, or corrupt politicians tying their hands.
We need to insist on a military that can fend for itself. A national platform plank in 2012 might be a good way to get that message across.
What say you? :patriot:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6388428
Didn't the DUmp throw a huge fit that National Guard pilots were driving trucks now they want them to cook pizzas. :mental:
this is a great idea only problem is you will be bitching when they have to re institute the draft.
It is funny though someone who wants all kinds of freebies from the govt wants the military to be self sufficient. How about you being self sufficient first DUmmy then you can start telling other people to do the same. :banghead:
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The whole privatization of the military begain when Clinton started gutting the military in the early 1990s. The Army kept the warfighters and started getting rid off the support troops- many of them being sent to the NGs and Reserves. We got to a level that there were no more support personnel to do anything and so we ended up hiring civilian contractors to do the jobs.
Then a war broke out, and instead of +-ing up the numbers of troops to enable the fighters, the DOD just hired more contractors to do the job.
Then the second campaign in the GWOT started up and the situation got worse. Top it off, the war lasted more than a year, and now we went back into the same strategy we had in Vietnam- rotating troops home after 12 months of deployment.
It works if you have a big enough army, but with our gutted forces, we ended up sending the same people back for a second, third, and a fourth time, extending rotations just to give the combat troops a rest.
All the while, the left protested, did everything it could to reduce morale, and support the enemy.
All we needed was support from the people, and a will to win on a national level.
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self-sufficient military .....OK by me as long as they only steal from the DUmmies and use the DUmmies homes for barracks. I know it'll be a poor living for the military but hey it bets a tent in the desert.
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The only time we've ever had a self-sufficient military force is when General Sherman was pillaging
and terrorizing his way through the South.
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The only time we've ever had a self-sufficient military force is when General Sherman was pillaging
and terrorizing his way through the South.
Throughout history pillaging the conquered is what kept the soldiers going. Unfortunately we are no longer allowed to reap the rewards of the conquered. The way I see it, if you were stupid enough to have some dipshit dictator make it so a foreign nation has to come in and kick your ass, you should at least support the victors! You are reeping the rewards of freedom, the least you can do is PAY for it!
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The whole privatization of the military begain when Clinton started gutting the military in the early 1990s
BINGO!!
As mentioned the military has always outsourced much of their supply needs. What was new was the in theatre contractor needed from the DRACONIAN cuts of Billy Jeff.
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Throughout history pillaging the conquered is what kept the soldiers going. Unfortunately we are no longer allowed to reap the rewards of the conquered. The way I see it, if you were stupid enough to have some dipshit dictator make it so a foreign nation has to come in and kick your ass, you should at least support the victors! You are reeping the rewards of freedom, the least you can do is PAY for it!
Good idea.We should invade Arruba and Barrbados now.
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Good idea.We should invade Arruba and Barrbados now.
Not sure it would be worth it.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Aug-25-09 03:19 PM
Original message
Then there's armor and weapons for our troops. Private-sector companies like VLTOR, Pinnacle Armor, Propper, Blackhawk, Lewis Machine & Tool, EoTech, Aimpont - God bless 'em for trying to keep our soldiers safe, but there have been too many instances where soldiers received gear not because it's the best for their needs, but rather because of who knows who at the Pentagon or the White House. And again, as a result, our troops have occasionally suffered because of inferior gear.
A little off-topic, but if they're carrying VLTOR, Blackhawk, LMT, EoTech, and Aimpoint, then they are carrying top-notch shit.
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A little off-topic, but if they're carrying VLTOR, Blackhawk, LMT, EoTech, and Aimpoint, then they are carrying top-notch shit.
Exactly. I'd love to get a little of that stuff myself, but my title is "Dad of a Teething Princess," and she's getting the last of her molars now, and growing like a weed. I'll call any fall/winter clothes "Daddy's M&P 15T with a Comp M4."
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The whole privatization of the military begain when Clinton started gutting the military in the early 1990s. The Army kept the warfighters and started getting rid off the support troops- many of them being sent to the NGs and Reserves. We got to a level that there were no more support personnel to do anything and so we ended up hiring civilian contractors to do the jobs.
Then a war broke out, and instead of +-ing up the numbers of troops to enable the fighters, the DOD just hired more contractors to do the job.
Then the second campaign in the GWOT started up and the situation got worse. Top it off, the war lasted more than a year, and now we went back into the same strategy we had in Vietnam- rotating troops home after 12 months of deployment.
It works if you have a big enough army, but with our gutted forces, we ended up sending the same people back for a second, third, and a fourth time, extending rotations just to give the combat troops a rest.
All the while, the left protested, did everything it could to reduce morale, and support the enemy.
All we needed was support from the people, and a will to win on a national level.
The rotations as we do them now are not like Viet Nam, which had one-year tours in enduring units. Now we move entire major units every year and frankly it's a weak system. It does cut down on the "New guy takes the round" problem, though a quality in-theater train-up program at the theater replacement activity would accomplish the same thing. The weakness (Aside from it being considerably more expensive and wasteful financially and in lost military property) is that it does put units on the ground in a way that NOBODY in them know a damned thing about what's really going on for at least the first month, and then has to focus on turnover of the mission and all the mission equipment to a replacement unit just 10 months after they DO figure out how to find their ass with both hands. The one thing it dows accomplish, pointless and stupid as it may be, is that every major Army formation sooner or later ends up being able to wear a combat patch.
Congress sets a numerical limit on the number of active component Soldiers the Army gets. If you only have a number of 495,000 to work with, why the Hell would you use up any significant percentage of them to do jobs that required no tactical skills at all and are readily available from civilian contractors at less total cost than you'd incur by having Soldiers to do it? We could afford to play that game when the Army was five times the size and not strained by war, with the ranks filled with draftees being paid a pittance for their involuntary service, it is just a stupid idea under the world and force structure needs we have now.
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We used to be self sufficient...right up to January 19th 1993.
Billy Jeff and friends showed the door either by force or by bribe to 400K mend and women in uniform. Took us from the 17 Divisions in the Army during the Gulf War to 10.
Moved 49% of the total combat power in the Army to the National Guard.
Clinton was using Brown and and Root and KBR for no bid contracts before these Little Goons could SPELL Blackwater.
You want us to be self sufficient again...reactivate and fill some of the Army Division that were shut down...bring back some of the deactivated Air Wings and take some of the ships outta Mothballs.
Like with Healthcare...this was a problem of YOUR creation...and I for one sure as hell don't trust you to fix it.
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We used to be self sufficient...right up to January 19th 1993.
Billy Jeff and friends showed the door either by force or by bribe to 400K mend and women in uniform. Took us from the 17 Divisions in the Army during the Gulf War to 10.
Moved 49% of the total combat power in the Army to the National Guard.
Clinton was using Brown and and Root and KBR for no bid contracts before these Little Goons could SPELL Blackwater.
You want us to be self sufficient again...reactivate and fill some of the Army Division that were shut down...bring back some of the deactivated Air Wings and take some of the ships outta Mothballs.
Like with Healthcare...this was a problem of YOUR creation...and I for one sure as hell don't trust you to fix it.
To be fair Bush the first started the cutbacks but, Clinton cut us to the bone. That was one reason I got out in 97.
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To be fair Bush the first started the cutbacks but, Clinton cut us to the bone. That was one reason I got out in 97.
I can never believe that Bush 41 intended the cuts to end up like they did.
Gore used the fact he helped toss out 400K of us as a bragging point in his run for pres in 2000.
Except he called us "Federal Employees" :whatever:
The Clintons and everyone the surrounded themselves with hate the military.
If Gore had won in 2000 I wouldn't have come back active duty.
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I can never believe that Bush 41 intended the cuts to end up like they did.
Gore used the fact he helped toss out 400K of us as a bragging point in his run for pres in 2000.
Except he called us "Federal Employees" :whatever:
The Clintons and everyone the surrounded themselves with hate the military.
If Gore had won in 2000 I wouldn't have come back active duty.
No but he was talking serious cutbacks Clintoon just took that an extra mile or 12.
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No but he was talking serious cutbacks Clintoon just took that an extra mile or 12.
I was at Ft. Stewart when we changed from the 24th to the 3rd and became the 10th of 10 Divisions left.
Schwartzkof was in Savannah for a book signing and was so pissed about what was happening he refused to attend the ceremony.