The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on August 14, 2009, 06:48:09 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=271x1879
Oh my.
flamin lib (1000+ posts) Thu Aug-13-09 06:49 PM
Original message
what is the earliest age to introduce a child to firearms?
We have a lot of options these days: Air soft, youth air guns, especially designed youth rim fire etc.
The issues of hand/eye co-ordination, attention span, capacity for understanding repercussions and ambidexterity are really of more concern to me than ideology.
As I recall I was in my early or pre-teens when I was introduced to a semi-auto .22 rifle as an entry into shooting. That's more abrupt than is possible today I think.
SteveM (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. I can only offer my experiences...
At around 8 or 9 years old, I was shown rifles & shotguns by my Dad. He demonstrated their operation and allowed me to hold them when I was able. A year later, I was allowed to shoot a .22 rifle and some god-awful .32 belly gun to understand the kick, noise and accuracy differences (the .32 could barely hit an oil drum at 25 feet). During this time -- the best part of my indoctrination -- I accompanied my Dad on hunting trips -- usually dove, duck & squirrel. I did not use a gun. When 12, I was allowed to hunt with a hand-me-down H&R Bay State single-shot .12 gauge, and an H&R .22 bolt action. When 13, I received for Christmas a Model 870 Remington Wingmaster .12 gauge.
During this whole time, I was drilled on keeping the barrel away from anyone and anything I didn't won't to shoot. We had real-world reason for this. Once my Dad fired his shotgun but nothing happened. He mused about the cause, then it went off -- but into the ground where it should have. Another time, the safety didn't hold on the .22, and I fired a sloppy shot at a squirrel when I placed my finger in the loop -- I was told not to grip the trigger firmly, even if the safety is "on." Again, no harm done.
This is speculation, but I think being in the field on a hunting trip is a damned good way to learn how to use a gun safely and properly without getting all uptight at a range, with an audience, etc. You learn proper carrying posture, how to avoid briers snagging the barrel, examining the gun for foliage which might have slipped into the action bars, how to unload field loads and recognize and load max loads for ducks (once the dove pan out). Being in the field is a fast and efficient confidence builder!
I tend to agree with some gun writers who DO NOT recommend introducing kids to hunting with a .410. These guns require expertise to hit a flying bird, so a child may become quickly discouraged. A .20 or .12 gauge is better.
Of course we had BB guns & such, but they quickly fell by the wayside when you had the "real thing."
Concerning abruptness: Here in Texas, many kids are introduced to high-powered rifles, and take their first deers well before their teen years. Shheesh.
I was hoping to find the bitch from Canada, the "iverglas" primitive here, but no luck.
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When 13, I received for Christmas a Model 870 Remington Wingmaster .12 gauge.
I got a twenty that says, if his parents knew he was DUmmy it would break their hearts.
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I say age 1 when you tell them in no uncertain terms that if they ever touch one without your approval you will beat their little asses into a greasy spot on the floor. Then when they are 5 get them a .22 rifle.
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I say age 1 when you tell them in no uncertain terms that if they ever touch one without your approval you will beat their little asses into a greasy spot on the floor. Then when they are 5 get them a .22 rifle.
I had a slightly different approach with my son, mama. It seems to work so far. It's based on my experience when I was growing up, where my mom forbade guns of any kind - real, toy, make-believe, or imaginary - in her house. As a result, when I was a kid, EVERYTHING was a gun to me. I didn't have a gun - or any practical experience with said tools - until I turned 18, and had property that did not have my parents name on it (my car) to store it in.
So, knowing my son is going to be every bit as facinated with "forbidden fruit" as I was, I've gone to great lengths to ensure that he never sees firearms as that irresistable "forbidden fruit". I made a gun cabinet in my father-in-law's carpentry shop when we knew he was coming. Keyed lock, and only my wife and I have the key. 99% of my firearms are stored in that locker. When he was about 3 he started getting curious when I would clean guns after a session at the range. I'd let him look at and handle the parts as I was cleaning them (and - much to his mother's chagrin - while some were still filthy). As I said, I only keep most of my weapons in the cabinet: my XD stores in it's open, padded case in a drawer in my bedframe - right beneath my pillow. He knows that he's not permitted in mommy and daddy's bedroom without escort, but once he started getting observant about what was kept where, I escorted him through the drawer where the XD was kept. I showed him the difference between the pistol with the slide locked back and magazine dropped, and with the slide forward and a magazine in the well. I let him know that when he saw the pistol in the former condition - as in I had it out for some reason, all he had to do was ask, and I'd let him handle the pistol. If he ever came across the pistol in the latter condition, he was to run to mommy or daddy and tell them "The pistol has owies in it". Every so often, we leave it out where he can find it intentionally, in order to drill him on what he's supposed to do. If he finds it open and asks to handle it, we gave him a candy. If he found it closed with a mag in the well, and he told us that the pistol had owies in it, same thing. Sometimes, to make it harder on him we leave it where he can find it, with the slide locked back AND a mag in the well, and he responds correctly to that one too: "The pistol has owies in it".
Treating it in this manner means that he is developing the understanding that firearms are like any other appliance in the house, the stove, for example. He can walk by the stove without any particular fear of getting hurt by it, and no particular interest in playing around with it. Same thing for the firearms in the house. We have been living at a heightened state of alert since the incident a couple of weeks ago where the local PD came looking for my neighbor (still unresolved, though it looks like he's beating feet across the county line to reduce his chance for modelling orange jumpsuits and stainless steel bracelets in the near future), and my loaded pistol has moved up from the drawer to locked and loaded on my nightstand, with the shotgun standing locked and loaded in the closet. Every morning, my -now 5-years old - son comes upstairs and climbs into bed with me to cuddle in the early morning, and he doesn't give the pistol sitting right there within his reach a second thought.
He continues to come along this well, and he'll likely have a .22 by the time he's 8.
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I got a twenty that says, if his parents knew he was DUmmy it would break their hearts.
He probably broke their hearts when he traded it for a "Barbie Dream Home" .
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When 13, I received for Christmas a Model 870 Remington Wingmaster .12 gauge.
Anyone who calls a 12 gauge shotgun a ".12 gauge" has told me all I need to know about his firearms knowledge.
I'm surprised he didn't talk about buying bullets for it.
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No Panzerfaust or crew-served weapons until they're 15, I swear I'll stick to that rule better with grandkiids (when they arrive) than I did with my sons...
:evillaugh:
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No Panzerfaust or crew-served weapons until they're 15
Sounds like TiT's arsenal. In the San Francisco Bay area, no less.
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Anyone who calls a 12 gauge shotgun a ".12 gauge" has told me all I need to know about his firearms knowledge.
I'm surprised he didn't talk about buying bullets for it.
I hear double ought bullets for a .12 ga. have gotten high as hell.
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No Panzerfaust or crew-served weapons until they're 15, I swear I'll stick to that rule better with grandkiids (when they arrive) than I did with my sons...
:evillaugh:
Piker! I'm teaching The Heiress to drive her own MLRS vehicle by the time she turns 2! :tongue: