The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: GOBUCKS on August 03, 2009, 11:20:09 PM
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Parche (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-03-09 08:33 PM
Original message
Why are State Workers so inept?
I just had to do something 3times, and a months time, when it should have taken me 1time in 1day
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x8966710
madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-03-09 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. This should be good.
triguy46 (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-03-09 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. So, I'm a state worker. I think you tossed some shit that hit my shoulder.
Any other broad brush insults pending? I'll hang up and listen for your apology on line.
The Velveteen Ocelot (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-03-09 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. You just insulted a whole lot of good, hard-working people.
I used to work for a state government. I did a good job; I did not, and do not, consider myself to be inept; nor were my co-workers.
An apology to the thousands of very capable (and mostly union) state workers is in order. Thank you in advance.
DUmmy vixengrl goes into an endless, boring recitation of why any interaction with a government bureaucrat is always frustrating:
vixengrl (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-03-09 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. A state worker's explanation--
Well, here's why your government-provided customer service might not have been super:
1) We are here to help you. But. You are not the only person they are dealing with. I know that's not an excuse. But a state worker processes tons of cases of whatever variety, whether they are DMV people or Revenue people or what have you, and they have heard a lot. But we can't always do exactly what you need us to do. Sometimes we don't have enough information. Sometimes we don't have the authority. We all get bitched at about "I waited (on the phone, in a line, 'x' weeks after sending in my correspondence) and I want something done, right now..."
2) We don't have control over how many people are in our queue, or even what we can do for them. We have regulations and red tape we have to deal with. Blah, blah, excuse blah.
3) Sometimes you really are dealing with someone who is: a) a temp, b) a trainee. Or c) totally burnt out. This is because, to save revenue, the state might have a) went for cheaper private contract labor, b) has some younger hires who are less experienced because they offered early retirement and got rid of all the competent old farts who knew what they were doing, or c) the person you are talking to probably knows what they are doing and cares, but you have to help them help you.
I hate to be a gray-shirted cubicle Nazi, but sometimes one's "papers aren't in order". Dealing with the government means--"Be prepared". Forewarned is forearmed. Check out the state website first to see what services are available and what your options are. A lot of things you do with the government don't even require a squishy fallible human interface anymore, they can be quickly done online. But if you need to interface with a state worker--have some idea what answers you need. Ask questions--and if you don't think you are getting good answers from us--ask for a supervisor. We don't really mind questions, or even a call for a supervisor, as much as we hate trying to cover all the bases for someone who has no idea what they're talking about or, worst case scenario--guess what our customer is looking for.
We run into different version of this, from the information-resistant customer who just doesn't listen, blah, on and on blah, unionized public titsucker blah.
Sometimes dealing with a state worker sucks. Sometimes it doesn't. I wish an experience like yours wasn't so common. But we are not all inept.
Without realizing it, DUmmy vixengrl has given a long, boring explanation of why Obamacare would be a nightmare of possibly fatal proportions.
DUmmy DBoon (who, unsurprisingly, doesn't know how Daniel Boone's name was spelled) may be catching on that this is an anti-Obamacare thread:
DBoon (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-03-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. the private sector can be more efficient at creating poor service
I'd rather deal with a well-meaning but badly managed government employee than a private sector employee that is effectively organized and managed to screw over their "customers" (insurance companies and banks, I MEAN YOU!)
DUmmy BarenakedLady, not smart enough to sense the anti-Obamacare drift of this thread, tosses some kindling on the fire:
BarenakedLady (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-03-09 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'll answer this honestly as a former State Worker.
There is no incentive to do a good job. You get paid the same amount as anyone else with your title whether you work your ass off or spend your days picking your nose and hiding in the bathroom. You'd have to royally **** up to lose your job too.
With free medical care for all, under Obamacare, DUmmy BarenakedLady has just described the doctor who will be responsible for whether you live or die. Let's hope he isn't hiding in the bathroom when that pesky cardiac arrest sets in.
Personally, I would rather have my doctor saving up for a new Lamborghini.
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BarenakedLady (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-03-09 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'll answer this honestly as a former State Worker.
There is no incentive to do a good job. You get paid the same amount as anyone else with your title whether you work your ass off or spend your days picking your nose and hiding in the bathroom. You'd have to royally **** up to lose your job too.
I can't believe it, but a DUmmie nailed it!!!!!!!!!!!
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I can't believe it, but a DUmmie nailed it!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, excellent catch. It describes many worthless government workers to a T.
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I can't believe it, but a DUmmie nailed it!!!!!!!!!!!
Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn now and then.... :rotf:
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They are breathtakingly ignorant in their obsession with having healthcare provided free to them.
They view it as winning a lottery which will free them from employment so in their minds have convinced themselves they will walk into a doctors office for something and a receptionist will say hi and bye while sending the bill to an open checkbook federal government.
Just stupid.
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I can't believe it, but a DUmmie nailed it!!!!!!!!!!!
Neighbor, you nail it dead on. But to address the post that AR referenced, I'll say this . . .
Today, actually in about an hour, I'm going on a trip to the western part of NY. It'll keep me away from my great wife and my lovely daughter until Thursday. I've got to appraise properties for seven different companies--one property each, spread out over 130 miles or so. The engineer that had this slot that I'm in before me would have done this in the same amount of time (all in one trip), but he would have been cajoled and harassed into doing it. It would have gotten done in a few months, as opposed to right now. As in any organization, there are good people (and workers), and bad people (and workers). Private companies can deal with the bad apples a lot easier than any government can. Matter of fact, in the last few months before the engineer referenced above actually retired, he wasn't even in our unit, as he decided that "the grass was greener" in another unit. (He soon regretted that decision, as the new unit actually made him do some work.)
Some of us do care and want to set a positive example for our children, and other people's children. Some people may not know it, but other people's kids do look up to them as examples.
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They are breathtakingly ignorant in their obsession with having healthcare provided free to them.
They view it as winning a lottery which will free them from employment so in their minds have convinced themselves they will walk into a doctors office for something and a receptionist will say hi and bye while sending the bill to an open checkbook federal government.
Just stupid.
WAAAAAIT ONE MINUTE, you have no idea what ALL state workers do.
You guys have put state workers benind a desk with a phone.
State Police, Game Wardens, also fish and game.
Then there are the guys that work in 90 degree weather to tar the roads, the engeneers and work force that check our bridges from afar on a rope sling 15 storys in the air to the divers that have to check out the pilings under water.
State work is about 50-50 hands on, the people that risk their lies every day to insure our safty cannot be compared to state workers that answer phones and direct us to the proper extension.
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WAAAAAIT ONE MINUTE, you have no idea what ALL state workers do.
You guys have put state workers benind a desk with a phone.
State Police, Game Wardens, also fish and game.
Then there are the guys that work in 90 degree weather to tar the roads, the engeneers and work force that check our bridges from afar on a rope sling 15 storys in the air to the divers that have to check out the pilings under water.
State work is about 50-50 hands on, the people that risk their lies every day to insure our safty cannot be compared to state workers that answer phones and direct us to the proper extension.
Vesta,at some point in time you need to learn that if you are going to quote someone you really need to write something related to what was said in that quote.
That or get a crash course on reading comprehension.
Where did I suggest that state workers were all lazy pencil pushers?
Nowhere is the answer.
What I wrote about,and hopefully you will actually read this was the willful ignorance they have at the DUmp regarding the cumbersome task of dealing with any government agency.
They know it to be true yet still think there is a blank check with their names on it just a phone call or email away allowing them "healthcare" for every whim.
Now before you pen another of your incoherent babblings about nothing remotely related to the subject at hand try actually reading something and letting it sink in.
If you can`t do that then whatever....just post your nonsense but don`t try to take my words out of their obvious context again.
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DUmmies...... :rotf:
You know, if Obamacare gets passed, you won't have to worry about the government pulling the plug on you.....hell, they won't bother to plug you up to start with. The red tape, paperwork and all has to be done first.
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WAAAAAIT ONE MINUTE, you have no idea what ALL state workers do.
You guys have put state workers benind a desk with a phone.
State Police, Game Wardens, also fish and game.
Then there are the guys that work in 90 degree weather to tar the roads, the engeneers and work force that check our bridges from afar on a rope sling 15 storys in the air to the divers that have to check out the pilings under water.
State work is about 50-50 hands on, the people that risk their lies every day to insure our safty cannot be compared to state workers that answer phones and direct us to the proper extension.
A little reading comprehension would have shown this thread to be about government bureaucrats, not the people out doing physical work. :mental:
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I have to say that vixengirl is also right on target, she is talking about the other end of the spectrum on the employee end from the unmotivated losers barenakedlady is talking about - there really are plenty of state workers do care about what they're doing and take working for a living seriously, and want to do the right thing in an efficient way. But, they are hamstrung by the limits of what they are allowed or required to do, have to work with the systems they've got (And over which they have no control whatsoever), and they don't have magic wands to make it all better when some cranky asshole shows up with FUBAR paperwork and holds up the line for 45 minutes arguing.
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WAAAAAIT ONE MINUTE, you have no idea what ALL state workers do.
You guys have put state workers benind a desk with a phone.
State Police, Game Wardens, also fish and game.
Then there are the guys that work in 90 degree weather to tar the roads, the engeneers and work force that check our bridges from afar on a rope sling 15 storys in the air to the divers that have to check out the pilings under water.
State work is about 50-50 hands on, the people that risk their lies every day to insure our safty cannot be compared to state workers that answer phones and direct us to the proper extension.
Hmmmm I take this thread to be more in the vein of; The government, no matter WHAT capacity one is working in, has no competition therefore no real drive to be ..... superior.
If you have a monopoly that one MUST use then what is the point in being an innovator/competitor?
Take the mail for example. They don't offer what FedEx and UPS offer because they don't have to. Last I heard it was actually against the law to use FedEx and UPS unless you could prove it absolutely positively had to be there overnight. They don't push the issue unless they want to search an office of someone.
I'll have to check on that.
KC
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Hmmmm I take this thread to be more in the vein of; The government, no matter WHAT capacity one is working in, has no competition therefore no real drive to be ..... superior.
If you have a monopoly that one MUST use then what is the point in being an innovator/competitor?
Take the mail for example. They don't offer what FedEx and UPS offer because they don't have to. Last I heard it was actually against the law to use FedEx and UPS unless you could prove it absolutely positively had to be there overnight. They don't push the issue unless they want to search an office of someone.
I'll have to check on that.
KC
The USPS is a perfect example of government inefficiency. Hamstrung by unions and regulations it has hemorrhaged $$$ for years. They are now considering closing a bunch of post offices, which I'm sure will result in relocating workers, not firing or laying them off. (on a side note, I've always received courteous service at the post office)
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Vesta,at some point in time you need to learn that if you are going to quote someone you really need to write something related to what was said in that quote.
That or get a crash course on reading comprehension.
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Again, no one, and I mean no one, with the exception Sheila Jackson Lee, Cynthia McKinney, and Beth Ferrari, is truly as dumb as vestanumbers claims to be. Vestanumbers is a troll, who should be locked in a padded room with DUmmy Bill and ronbot Sam Adams.
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Again, no one, and I mean no one, with the exception Sheila Jackson Lee, Cynthia McKinney, and Beth Ferrari, is truly as dumb as vestanumbers claims to be. Vestanumbers is a troll, who should be locked in a padded room with DUmmy Bill and ronbot Sam Adams.
I know and the fact that when called on the stupid tripe she posts she just floats off as if it never happened is proof enough of just being a troll here.
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I know and the fact that when called on the stupid tripe she posts she just floats off as if it never happened is proof enough of just being a troll here.
Hot air rises.
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[Then there are the guys that work in 90 degree weather to tar the roads, the engeneers and work force that check our bridges from afar on a rope sling 15 storys in the air to the divers that have to check out the pilings under water.
Tell me, dear Vespa, when was the last time you drove by a federal or state or county highway job, where there wasn't 3 times the amount of employees as a private contractor?
Oh, and of course there has to be a supervisor for every 3rd employee, so you get about a half a dozen hard hat wearin', self appointed important, Boss' standing around watching so that they at least do it half assed!
I know, I know, I'm asking for the impossible!
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Again, no one, and I mean no one, with the exception Sheila Jackson Lee, Cynthia McKinney, and Beth Ferrari, is truly as dumb as vestanumbers claims to be. Vestanumbers is a troll, who should be locked in a padded room with DUmmy Bill and ronbot Sam Adams.
Little problem there, I will just stay stuck on the ceiling shouting out as they cannot reach me, drive them NUTS.
{ Hot AIR Floats}
To tell the truth there are times when I do feel like pulling someones tail, What fun as the responces tell and teach me are very in lightning,
Get use to it, every day one of you will open my mind to another side of any problem.
Darn I did not come here to make friends with like minded folks, I came here to LEARN and you guys are doing a darn good job of that---Thank YOU.
Keep the bi1Chen coming on, some times people need a boot up the butt--- Here I am and each time I get booted, I become more educated , you are doing me a favor.
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Tell me, dear Vespa, when was the last time you drove by a federal or state or county highway job, where there wasn't 3 times the amount of employees as a private contractor?
Oh, and of course there has to be a supervisor for every 3rd employee, so you get about a half a dozen hard hat wearin', self appointed important, Boss' standing around watching so that they at least do it half assed!
I know, I know, I'm asking for the impossible!
Have you ever worked with a private contractor. I have and for a job needing 6 people they send in 4. It is difficult to find any supervisor and when you do track down the person who is ignoring all work, if one questions them they get Huffy.
Crap yes I do see see highway construction every day. Yes there are people hanging about scratching their butt, blowing their nose on their sleeve.
We have to realise that each worker has an assigned job being as driving the big graders, down to the people who manually spread the surfice of the road.
When one job is completed in an area the workers have to wait for others to open the next area.
Sort of like having an electrician who has to wait for the plumber to finish his job. Plumbing first, electrical next.
Same as if you need a new roof on your house and you take the low bid, most likely you get less then you paid for. A truck pulls up and 3 Mexican workers and one supervisor turn up.
The supervisor watches as the crew unload the truck, points at your roof and he drives off for 8 hours.
At the end of the day the Supervisor comes back to pick up his crew, climbs on the roof and walks about and at no time finds any problem. He climbs down and with his crew drives off with your check in his pocket.
2 weeks later the roof is leaking in 3 rooms, you call the company to find they are no longer in business under the name they had when you hired them.
I would rather pay more to a company that sends out 2 extra people, to check the works as it is done.
So is the reason state workers send in a couple extra people to keep an eye on things. It is seldom that a state put in road falls apart in 3 years, a Bridge falls apart in 20 years.
The Big Dig was given over to private contractors Had the State hired engineers and state paid inspectors, the graft and corruption would not have happend. as bad as it did. Oh yes there would have been some sell outs, but when disaster hit, they would have been held accountable.
You asked about state road workers and I went around the barn to get to private contractors VS. State about construction. This has nothing to do with any other State agency, just road or bridge construction, with a bunch of crap about private contractors thrown in.
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Again, no one, and I mean no one, with the exception Sheila Jackson Lee, Cynthia McKinney, and Beth Ferrari, is truly as dumb as vestanumbers claims to be. Vestanumbers is a troll, who should be locked in a padded room with DUmmy Bill and ronbot Sam Adams.
Little problem there, I will just stay stuck on the ceiling shouting out as they cannot reach me, drive them NUTS.
{ Hot AIR Floats}
To tell the truth there are times when I do feel like pulling someones tail, What fun as the responces tell and teach me are very in lightning,
Get use to it, every day one of you will open my mind to another side of any problem.
Darn I did not come here to make friends with like minded folks, I came here to LEARN and you guys are doing a darn good job of that---Thank YOU.
Keep the bi1Chen coming on, some times people need a boot up the butt--- Here I am and each time I get booted, I become more educated , you are doing me a favor.
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Have you ever worked with a private contractor.
Only for 30 years, asshat! I have been pushing jobs for generals for 25 of the 30! It was my job to make sure it got done with the least amount of manpower and come in under budget enough to make my company money! Something the gubmint doesn't have to worry about!
Best not step in the shit if ya don't know how to wipe it off your shoe! If you did any research before you call one of us out here at CC, you would know better!
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I observed the following while standing in line at a California DMV branch for about 45 minutes.
Behind the counter, in the center of the area, was a central desk, at which sat a person who was obviously some kind of person in charge. He looked bored to death, shuffling papers around on his desk without actually accomplishing anything. He kept checking his watch, as the counter people worked through their long lines of "customers". At one point, the time he was awaiting must have arrived, because he disappeared into a back room for a few minutes. He reappeared with a rag, and spray bottle of some kind of cleaner. He then went around to each customer service station, where the person helping their line had to stop helping people and back away from their computer terminal. The supervisor then very slowly and deliberately cleaned their computer screen with his rag and spray bottle. He did this at each station. When he was done, he disappeared into the back room again, then reappeared sans bottle and rag. He sat back down at his desk, and resumed stacking and reshuffling papers.
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And Vespa disappears again without answering what it's been called out for!
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Only for 30 years, asshat! I have been pushing jobs for generals for 25 of the 30! It was my job to make sure it got done with the least amount of manpower and come in under budget enough to make my company money! Something the gubmint doesn't have to worry about!
Best not step in the shit if ya don't know how to wipe it off your shoe! If you did any research before you call one of us out here at CC, you would know better!
What the government should be worried about is subcontractors that hire people like me that has no idea what the heck they are suppose to do.
I learned on the job training in Lagging the engine rooms of ships at independent ship yards in VA. I learned more about how bidding on jobs worked and that it was not uncommon to recycle old unworn parts and charge for new.
Cut throat business but I can put an 8 dog door and handle together with my eyes closed
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What the government should be worried about is subcontractors that hire people like me that has no idea what the heck they are suppose to do.
I learned on the job training in Lagging the engine rooms of ships at independent ship yards in VA. I learned more about how bidding on jobs worked and that it was not uncommon to recycle old unworn parts and charge for new.
Cut throat business but I can put an 8 dog door and handle together with my eyes closed
I've actually worked and submitted those bids! Yet you fail to answer the last question I brought forth! I did it for 30 years! You don't have a clue! Glad to see you can manipulate Doggy Doors! (I can put an 8 dog door and handle together with my eyes closed) I can build the Space Shuttle with a good set of plans! You're nothing more than a rookie trying to play with the big boys!
You need to find a different topic to be an "expert" at!
edited for emphasis
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I've actually worked and submitted those bids! Yet you fail to answer the last question I brought forth! I did it for 30 years! You don't have a clue! Glad to see you can manipulate Doggy Doors! (I can put an 8 dog door and handle together with my eyes closed) I can build the Space Shuttle with a good set of plans! You're nothing more than a rookie trying to play with the big boys!
You need to find a different topic to be an "expert" at!
edited for emphasis
We have different prospectives on this issue, You are the engineer, I am just the worker that does your bidding.
I does not matter if a worker knows all the ins and out of theory and just why they are doing a job, what matters is the worker has to do the job given them, few questions asked.
With Union work one needs an electrician to hook up an electrical panel, it is not the job of the welder to do more then wait for the job to be finished then continue on with their job. If the engineers missed something and the two jobs conflict, everything goes sky high, the problem is blamed on the workers not the designers.
You see All, I come from the neck of the woods that built the Thresher. Half my family worked on that boat and when on sea trials it went down due to what they believe were some sea water valves put in backwards. [It was a long time ago but I still remember the family and intire comunity going into shock]]
No only was all but one of the crew lost, he the lucky man had a family emergency so did not sail, but a large number of civilians who were in charge of the building and inspection lost at sea.
Everyone who worked on that boat was grilled from the Marine Guards to the people who ordered supplies to build the boat. The Pipe fitters got the worse of it, they were given a job, did the job and moved on to another part of the boat to work. The inspectors that came after them saw nothing wrong, the designers saw nothing wrong, even Rickover had no problem's bless his heart he had to depend on others to give him the thumbs up.
So that magnificent piece of human engineering went to sea-----BTW the ships motto was,
" Dive deeper stay longer " ----
To this day people wonder if the fault lay in the workers or the actual design that instructed them to install the valves improperly.
You see we all have a boss that inspects our work be it digging a hole for a fence post or working in a brokerage house. All people be it Government workers or civilian will at times question the bosses orders, Question orders when something just don't sound right, however those of us who wish to keep our job learn early on that the boss is allways right and we are free to seek work elsewhere if we disagree.
This is where you, All, have placed me and everyone else in a bind, you are the expert, yet when that pesky kid comes along and shouts that the Emperor has no clothes, we are expected to doubt our own eyes and experience , as the Emperor and Expert can do no wrong.
So if you are hired to build a space shuttle get the plans but a few things give you question, be it questionable material, say O Rings to perhaps the grade of outer insulation for the craft, are you about to abandon a 30 year carear for what you perceive as problems? When Your bosses who are more expert then you tell you they have it under controll, do you believe them or take a hike ???