The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on July 21, 2009, 04:58:47 PM
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http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6117154
Oh my.
But wait--remember, this is only the start.
It's going to get worse and worse.
Blue_Roses (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:28 PM
Original message
What is going on in California? Budget cuts that hit elderly and poor the hardest?
this is terrible...
Calif. budget deal: No new taxes, many big cuts
Agreement to close state's $26 billion deficit awaits approval by Legislature
SACRAMENTO, Calif. - Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and California's legislative leaders have agreed on a plan to slice $26 billion from the state’s recession-ravaged budget,cuts that would hit the elderly and poor the hardest.
The governor and leaders from both parties announced the compromise late Monday after more than five hours of closed-door talks. If the agreement survives its run through both houses of the Legislature, it would provide temporary relief to an epic fiscal crisis that has captured national attention, sunk the state's credit rating and forced it to issue IOUs, and forced deep cuts in education and social services.
But it won’t solve the state’s budget problem. Most analysts and top lawmakers expect that California will face multibillion-dollar deficits into the foreseeable future as the economy struggles to recover and tax revenue lags far behind the level of the boom years.
more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32010922/ns/us_news-life/
The orange marmalade primitive:
marmar (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. California is being "Shock Doctrined"
DBoon (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. or "drowned in a bathtub"
The mike_c primitive:
mike_c (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. the minority republicans won, for all intents and purposes....
We are screwed.
Blue_Roses (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. how did California get such a huge deficit?
mike_c (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. still lots of argument about that....
Certainly major contributors include Prop 13-- which itself included both revenue limits and the utterly dysfunctional state budget process-- and the overall economic collapse kicked off by the sub-prime mortgage market failure. We had a surplus a couple of years ago. The market collapse this year turned a reasonably-close-to-balanced budget into a deficit nightmare as projected revenues failed to materialize.
My personal feeling is that Prop 13 and its budget legislative mandates are the biggest problem this state faces. They simply cannot be fixed without something along the lines of a constitutional do-over.
Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. We're screwed.
We've been screwed since January 20, 2009, by the way.
JuniperLea (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. The big dumb comic book hero...
Is going to stupidly wonder why costs start going up for police, prisons, courts, etc.... not to mention the increase in welfare recipients because our youth will only know how to steal cars and won't be worthy of jobs.
I'm so sick of the libertarian crap about "why should I pay for some other person's kid to go to school?" So you don't wind up having your car stolen, your house burglarized, and your wife raped, dumbass! You will either have to pay far more taxes, or learn to live without roads, water, electricity, beaches, libraries, etc.
California is a leader... the rest of the country will follow us off the cliff!
And the seniors... don't get me started on our seniors! They are eating dog food as it is!
imdjh (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. How would it end healthcare coverage for seniors?
"he plan would end health care coverage for tens of thousands of seniors"
Seniors are on Medicare, a federal program. How would California's budget affect them?
The defrocked warped primitive:
Warpy (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. You don't think Arnie or all those pubbies in the lege will go after their own class, do you?
Instead of inconveniencing the rich, they'll just kill the poor by neglect.
Webster Green (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. The biggest cash crop in this state could solve the problem..
Combine legalizing and taxing pot with releasing drug offenders from prison to solve the budget problems and provide health care to everyone.
Seriously...trust me. I'm a die-hard first-wave hippie and we were (and still are) correct about everything.
lindisfarne (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. It wouldn't solve the problem - taxes on marijuana might raise $1 billion.The problem is $26 billion
Uh, the "problem" is bigger than $26 billion. Try about three times that amount.
Webster Green (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. It would raise more than that, and the prison industry is very costly.
I'm talking about taking full advantage of the cannabis plant, including the jobs created by U.S. manufactured goods from hemp, medicinal and medical marijuana and edibles and tinctures and on and on. There is already a nice little industry that is getting larger all the time, even though the stuff is illegal (more or less).
It's arguably the most beneficial plant on earth (it might be second to bamboo), yet we've been lied to by the "experts" again, and we are prevented from using this amazing resource.
Oh, I dunno if dope is the most beneficial plant on earth.
I'd rank it somewhere about 500 plants below broadleaf, myself.
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And the seniors... don't get me started on our seniors! They are eating dog food as it is!
Don't worry the Congress and Obama have a plan for them.... they will become dog food!
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Don't worry the Congress and Obama have a plan for them.... they will become dog food!
Well, to get out of this mess, and to help Pa Kettle in the White House succeed, the primitives themselves are just going to have to share, taking less so that others may have some.
We know how that's going to go over.
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The "Let's legalize and tax pot" mantra would never work as it has for alcohol and tobacco. The short answer is people would grow their own in no time at all. Unlike alcohol which takes a good recipe and time to make, or tobacco which requires fairly specific soil and temperature conditions, weed requires dirt, water, and sunlight (real or artificial) to grow. And if one is experienced in hydroponics, it doesn't even need dirt.
In other words, someone who is stoned 24/7 can grow it.
Legal weed would become like tomato plants. everybody has at least one, and at harvest time everybody has too damn many tomatoes. You can't even give them away. How would the police tell the difference between a store-bought, heavily taxed spliff and some home grown pinners ?
The only real positive is that those who are going to smoke it aren't going to get laced crap off the street anymore.
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JuniperLea (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. The big dumb comic book hero...
Is going to stupidly wonder why costs start going up for police, prisons, courts, etc.... not to mention the increase in welfare recipients because our youth will only know how to steal cars and won't be worthy of jobs.
I'm so sick of the libertarian crap about "why should I pay for some other person's kid to go to school?" So you don't wind up having your car stolen, your house burglarized, and your wife raped, dumbass! You will either have to pay far more taxes, or learn to live without roads, water, electricity, beaches, libraries, etc.
California is a leader... the rest of the country will follow us off the cliff!
And the seniors... don't get me started on our seniors! They are eating dog food as it is!
Narcissistic much?!
Texas follows NO state bitch. CA is simply the template all good Conservatives are pointing to when converting Liberals.
For the DUmbass talking about making money off marijuana ..... Hard to tax something ANYONE can grow.
KC
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"Seriously...trust me. I'm a die-hard first-wave hippie and we were (and still are) correct about everything."...... :rotf: I do believe he's serious.
Somebody please shoot that poor, dumb, pickled brain S.O.B.. Put us out of our misery.
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"Seriously...trust me. I'm a die-hard first-wave hippie and we were (and still are) correct about everything."...... :rotf: I do believe he's serious.
Somebody please shoot that poor, dumb, pickled brain S.O.B.. Put us out of our misery.
Now, you wouldn't pick on an old man, would you?
This primitive's pretty old.
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Now, you wouldn't pick on an old man, would you?
This primitive's pretty old.
Hell, I'm old. I came right thru the middle of the drug, free love, 60's culture without partaking of either one. While he was dodging the draft, I was joining up. While he was protesting the war, I was fighting it. While he was screwing every slut he could, I was getting married. While he was getting high, I was getting a job. While he was free loading off the government, I was paying taxes. While he was finding himself, I knew where I was.......just shoot him. Call it National Healthcare, it is, after all, for the good of the country.
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I'll bet you still have more hair than he does, John, sir.
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Go back to the 2005 budget and the problem is magically fixed.
Cut out illegal aid to illegal aliens and that would give between 8-10 billion back to the state.
For the liberal/communist there is never enough tax being taken out of the system...and never enougt spending of other people's money.
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Just out of curiosity, where in the hell do these idiots think the money comes from to pay for all these bullshit programs? ...and if those people leave due to skyrocketing taxation, what's THEIR plan to fix it? Ask the damn tooth fairy for a solid?
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And the seniors... don't get me started on our seniors! They are eating dog food as it is!
I hear something like this ever so often. I suppose there are some cases where it happens; however, the last time I looked at canned dog food it was kind of pricey. I would think you could buy some generic soup for about the same cost (or less) as canned dog food.
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The "Let's legalize and tax pot" mantra would never work as it has for alcohol and tobacco. The short answer is people would grow their own in no time at all. Unlike alcohol which takes a good recipe and time to make, or tobacco which requires fairly specific soil and temperature conditions, weed requires dirt, water, and sunlight (real or artificial) to grow. And if one is experienced in hydroponics, it doesn't even need dirt.
In other words, someone who is stoned 24/7 can grow it.
Legal weed would become like tomato plants. everybody has at least one, and at harvest time everybody has too damn many tomatoes. You can't even give them away. How would the police tell the difference between a store-bought, heavily taxed spliff and some home grown pinners ?
The only real positive is that those who are going to smoke it aren't going to get laced crap off the street anymore.
The only thing wrong with this is that habitual potheads are lazy and unmotivated - it's a side effect of that drug. They're not motivated enough to grow their own weed so will be happy to be able to pick up a bag with their cheetos and supersize Pepsi even if it's 100%+ of the price they're presently paying on the street.
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Blue_Roses (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. how did California get such a huge deficit?
Irresponsible spending by a state government in a stranglehold by liberal Democrats.
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I'm so sick of the libertarian crap about "why should I pay for some other person's kid to go to school?" So you don't wind up having your car stolen, your house burglarized, and your wife raped, dumbass!
This is the sick mind of the moonbat in all its glory.
Pay off foreign countries so they'll like us. Pay off our enemies so they won't attack us. Pay off minorities so we won't be called bigots. Pay off criminals so they won't victimize us.
Bunch of gutless wonders unable to stand on any firm principle. Unable to set any moral standards. Unable to demand responsible behavior from anyone except "the rich." Just buy a veneer of peace and freedom with those same "rich people's" money, then buy some more when it starts to peel off. Nothing but perverted, cowardly little cur hiding behind self-righteous proclamations of "compassion and tolerance."
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20% tuition increase at UC system....
.. the protests should be interesting
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14. The biggest cash crop in this state could solve the problem..
Combine legalizing and taxing pot with releasing drug offenders from prison to solve the budget problems and provide health care to everyone.
The DUmmies don't realize they would end up committing suicide when they see a pack of mary jane cigs cost $60 with $40 of it taxes. Idiot Boi Sean Penn has already come out swinging against taxing the currently tax free bong fodder.
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The DUmmies don't realize they would end up committing suicide when they see a pack of mary jane cigs cost $60 with $40 of it taxes. Idiot Boi Sean Penn has already come out swinging against taxing the currently tax free bong fodder.
Actually, if the biggest tax crop in California is weed, then I think there problem is more than just illegal aliens. They're ****ed up 3 ways to Sunday if that's the case.
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The only thing wrong with this is that habitual potheads are lazy and unmotivated - it's a side effect of that drug. They're not motivated enough to grow their own weed so will be happy to be able to pick up a bag with their cheetos and supersize Pepsi even if it's 100%+ of the price they're presently paying on the street.
I don't think so, there will always be a few enterprising folks who will give it away for all sorts of *ahem* 'favors' from potheads. Not to mention the potheads Ive known are on an eternal quest for more weed, and are too unemployed to pay for it.
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If they start packaging joints by the 20s like cigs with a huge tax on the pack what is to stop the growers operating outside the law now doing the same so as to sell the product black market without the tax at a lot cheaper price?
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Blue_Roses (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-21-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. how did California get such a huge deficit?
:whatever: :whatever: :whatever: :whatever: Someone found little Johnny's stash....
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Well, to get out of this mess, and to help Pa Kettle in the White House succeed, the primitives themselves are just going to have to share, taking less so that others may have some.
We know how that's going to go over.
As my dear old dad would say, "Like a fart in a diving helmet."
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Go back to the 2005 budget and the problem is magically fixed.
Cut out illegal aid to illegal aliens and that would give between 8-10 billion back to the state.
For the liberal/communist there is never enough tax being taken out of the system...and never enougt spending of other people's money.
Exactly right, but I haven't heard from DUmbass Arnie if the 13-15 BILLION for illegals has been completely cut.
Oh DUmmies, what party has been in charge of Ca.......for several years now??? Hummm?
MikeC....Prop 13.........ya......**** you buddy. :bird:
Oh, DUmbasses, I know a "grower"..........legalization will not be a "magic ....errr...pill".
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What on earth is wrong with these people?
Here they have a chance to compare hippie utopia with conservative awesomeness (Kaleeforneea vs. Texas) and they still don't see the substance of the differences. Their complaint is about legislative budget procedures, specifically Proposition 13??
Look, California is a perfect test case and example of nearly every aspect of our current economic situation on a smaller scale.
Ridiculous taxes and spending? Check.
Dissolving housing market? Check.
Entitlements for every Dick, Jane and Julio in the state? Check.
Industry stifling environmental restrictions? Check.
Corrupt and powerful union lobbies? Check.
Bloated and incompetent government? Check.
Crawling credit and facing massive defaults? Check.
But no, obviously the major problem here is that it just isn't easy enough for legislators to raise taxes. Clearly.
And they think the rest of the country will do down with them. Right. How are those IOU's working out folks?
We are going down as well, but because we're following their model perfectly.
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What on earth is wrong with these people?
Here they have a chance to compare hippie utopia with conservative awesomeness (Kaleeforneea vs. Texas) and they still don't see the substance of the differences. Their complaint is about legislative budget procedures, specifically Proposition 13??
Look, California is a perfect test case and example of nearly every aspect of our current economic situation on a smaller scale.
Ridiculous taxes and spending? Check.
Dissolving housing market? Check.
Entitlements for every Dick, Jane and Julio in the state? Check.
Industry stifling environmental restrictions? Check.
Corrupt and powerful union lobbies? Check.
Bloated and incompetent government? Check.
Crawling credit and facing massive defaults? Check.
But no, obviously the major problem here is that it just isn't easy enough for legislators to raise taxes. Clearly.
And they think the rest of the country will do down with them. Right. How are those IOU's working out folks?
We are going down as well, but because we're following their model perfectly.
Don't forget that skilled workers, as well as small and large businesses are fleeing the state as quickly as they can.........not even ACORN will be able to keep California from loosing another few congressional districts after the next census.......
And Arnie is on TV every night nearly pleading for tourism..........hell, I can remember when tourists actually wanted to vacation in California.........not any more
doc
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These people think legalizing a drug that is easy to grow anywhere is going to help their budget situation? That is dumb.
First everyone who wants to will grow it. The price that taxed will have to be higher than the plummeting 'street' price, so who is going to buy it if the govt sells it, when you grow it much much cheaper?
This is like when people tell us the dude in UK didn't get a kidney because alcoholics don't deserve to get a rare, valuable kidney. If the fasmilies of the dead were given $500 or $1000 for the good organs does anyone think we would have a shortage? Of course not. We would have a huge surplus of donated organs and we would have the government still not wanting to pay for the operations. People die on transplant waiting lists because the government wants them to. period.
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Don't forget that skilled workers, as well as small and large businesses are fleeing the state as quickly as they can.........not even ACORN will be able to keep California from loosing another few congressional districts after the next census.......
And Arnie is on TV every night nearly pleading for tourism..........hell, I can remember when tourists actually wanted to vacation in California.........not any more
doc
Edit: bold type my emphasis.
Note that I am one of those workers and am now making $25K more than what I did 3 years ago, and with housing prices half of California's, no state income or sales tax, and no silly bullshit "fees", my dollar goes a helluva lot farther here than it ever hoped to have gone in OC. So what if I have to shovel snow 11 months a year.