The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on July 21, 2009, 07:11:37 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6096140
Damn, my fellow alum Skins has got to do something about the primitives starting bonfires in "General Discussion" when such bonfires actually belong in one of the many smaller specialty forums on Skins's island.
Skins might as well just have one single big forum on the island, "General Discussion," and do away with the overhead involved with having the specialty forums.
The below, for example, was in "General Disucssion," instead of either in the cooking and baking or health forums, where it more properly belongs.
Tim01 (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-18-09 01:39 PM
Original message
Just a reminder about things like organic foods.
I know I am preaching to the choir to some extent here. No offense intended. But reminders help me, so maybe they help others.
When you go to the store and buy stuff you are voting on how you want this country to be. If you buy cheap food instead of organic food the corporations will be more than happy to give you more of the same. You are telling them that you don't care as long as it is cheap. And they will find ways to get the govt. to cooperate with them producing more and more cheap food no matter what it takes. They will manipulate the EPA, the FDA, and all the other groups that are supposed to protect us. And it is simply because of what we buy.
Simply put, if we all went organic over night the corporations would change to meet demand. They would follow the money. And what we buy sets the stage for everything else.
If we don't care that much about what we feed our kids, we probably don't care that much about what we drink, breathe, or wear.
If we refused to buy any chicken but free range chicken, then all chicken farmers would become free range farmers or they would be out of business in short order.
There is a long list of this kind of stuff. A long list of choices we can make.And at the end of the day I think how we spend our money is far far more influential than who we vote for.
If we vote once every few years for one thing, and vote every day for something else, we will get politicians who will tell us one thing and do something else. They are playing our game.
We can vote everyday.
itsrobert (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-18-09 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. So how is your organic farm going?
Do you have a link to your web store?
Tim01 (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-18-09 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I raise enough beef and chicken for my family. That's it.
I shoot a few deer. And the occasional groundhog.I have a few tomatoes. I buy everything else.
readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-18-09 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Good thing you don't live in Brooklyn or Oakland or Chicago...
And the whole "they have the choice to move out here" blather is a bald-faced lie. I seriously doubt country folks REALLY want urban America--half the population of the US--moving out to country willy-nilly.
The above primitive has that right.
Tim01 (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-18-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. I lived in D.C. Descent food is available. But it does take effort.
I'm willing to give up 2 cans of soda so I can have better eggs for the whole week. Lots of people are not willing to put up with such a hardship. Chicken and rice is lots cheaper and better than McDonalds. But once again, effort.
Soaking beans instead of Taco Bell, effort. Taking a brown bag instead of going to the food court, effort.
After which the "readmoreoften" primitive engages in a discussion about "organizing."
If the primitives wished things "organized," they would make one small step for a primitive, one giant leap for primitivity, simply by putting bonfires in the correct forums on Skins's island, so as to organize their own digs better.
varelse (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-18-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Some of us don't have the $$ to make the choice
And, as pointed out on numerous occasions in the film "Food, Inc." that price structure, whereby unhealthy "food" is far cheaper than nutritious, fresh, whole food, is created by long standing government policy.
If we can convince our government to change the farm subsidy programs to effect affordable pricing for healthy food (fresh vegetables and fruits, grass-fed beef, etc) then we would open up options which do not currently exists for millions of poor and low income Americans to make better choices without being forced to skip meals.
(edited to add, I'm a member of an organic CSA and a long-time vegetarian who only buys organic food, so I don't disagree with you on a personal level at all)
There's a thing such as an organic Confederate States of America?
Damn, I dislike it when the primitives use acronyms, as if it's hip, cool, trendy, with it, to have one's own special "secret" language.
itsrobert (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-18-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Organics are a croc anyhow
The coroporations have taken them over and they just put a label on the package to say "Organic" Suckers buy it up.
Up rises a primitive perfectly in tune with franksolich:
harmonicon (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-18-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
103. and what effects has your tinfoil hat caused?
Heaven forbid we use such things as pasteurization and fluoride. That wily Pasteur was always in the corporate pocket, trying to make people sick so they wouldn't be able to fight for their rights to drink juice riddled with disease causing bacteria. He was evil I tell ya, EVIL.
A really stupid primitive then responds to the harmonious primitive:
Kalun D (849 posts) Sat Jul-18-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #103
115. Nutrition 101
""Heaven forbid we use such things as pasteurization and fluoride.""
there's no tinfoil here, this is long established basic nutrition
Americans are so ignorant of basic nutrition, it's probably why our cancer rates are so high.
things like heating over 108F and pasteurization kills raw food, ruining up to 90% of it's nutrients
that's why meat is "bad" for you, it's not the meat, our digestion is designed to be omnivorous, it's the cooking of the meat which transforms it into stuff that's bad for you.
Pasteurization was necessary when sanitary conditions weren't as well understood. And what it does is trade a small minority of short term consequences for widespread longterm consequences. IOW a very few, low percentage poisonings, for a widespread general health decline.
and fluoride has long been known to be a sedative and neurotoxin, it's banned in a lot of the rest of the world, only in America with it's rampant corrupt corporations and for profit health care is fluoride still so widely used.
harmonicon (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-18-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. I'll keep my pasteurized juice and milk, thank you very much
If you want to gamble, be my guest, but don't suggest that gambling with one's health should be the way to go. As for fluoride, I would like to thank it for keeping me cavity-free until I was 29 years old. I know that fluoride isn't put into the water in many countries, but I'm pretty sure that it's in a lot of toothpaste.
The colon primitive again responds with more stupidity:
Kalun D (849 posts) Sun Jul-19-09 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #117
119. The Cancer Train
""I'll keep my pasteurized juice and milk, thank you very much""
anything pasteurized is pretty much empty food. Pasteurized milk is in the detrimental food category.
Fluoride is actually bad for your teeth
""I know that fluoride isn't put into the water in many countries""
why do you think that is?
for corporate cultivated perceptions you're gambling with your long term health, it's called, Riding the Cancer Train.
and the "health care" corporations will be there to "help" you when you get to the last stop.
It's a big blazing bonfire, but I'm tired of copying-and-pasting, so will quit.
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Quote
Tim01 (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-18-09 01:39 PM
Original message
Just a reminder about things like organic foods.
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There is such a thing as an inorganic food ?
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I'm calling Kalen out on the flouride thing. My first two children I used bottled water for their bottles as babies instead of tap and I used tap with my last kid. Both the first two have had issues with caveties early and my 'baby' is now 5 and has strong, perfect teeth. His even look better. I really think the flouride helps strengthen the enamel of the adult teeth when it is consumed when they are infants either thru their mother's breastmilk or the water used to make bottles. I've paid for that mistake.
As for the organic thing, it's no wonder they say they can't afford food. That crap is expensive and quite frankly it's debatable, from all I've read, as to whether it is better or not. I have a friend who is big on the organic stuff and she also does very well financially so it was no issue for her to switch her entire family to organic foods. I start looking at her cross eyed when she suggests health benefits. IMO, there is a health benefit to taking a vacation out on a quiet beach somewhere with no distractions or interuptions, but that's a bit out of the means of a lot of folks too. Can't always afford to do the most healthy thing. Oh well, we all hit the dirt in the end.
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I'm calling Kalen out on the flouride thing. My first two children I used bottled water for their bottles as babies instead of tap and I used tap with my last kid. Both the first two have had issues with caveties early and my 'baby' is now 5 and has strong, perfect teeth. His even look better. I really think the flouride helps strengthen the enamel of the adult teeth when it is consumed when they are infants either thru their mother's breastmilk or the water used to make bottles. I've paid for that mistake.
As for the organic thing, it's no wonder they say they can't afford food. That crap is expensive and quite frankly it's debatable, from all I've read, as to whether it is better or not. I have a friend who is big on the organic stuff and she also does very well financially so it was no issue for her to switch her entire family to organic foods. I start looking at her cross eyed when she suggests health benefits. IMO, there is a health benefit to taking a vacation out on a quiet beach somewhere with no distractions or interuptions, but that's a bit out of the means of a lot of folks too. Can't always afford to do the most healthy thing. Oh well, we all hit the dirt in the end.
Sorry but my tribe eats anything that don't eat them first.
Have to say the GM in seeds and live stock is a problem, however all this stuff make us sterile and the hormones will put breasts on 9 year old girls, wild caught game may be full of pesticides-------
Why do we have organs of no critical use to our survival,? Why can we have organs removed from our body's and still live a long life without them.?
Lots of questions here.
First off is what the hell is organic, nightshade is organic but I don't advise anyone make a salad of it.
We have around the world perfectally good organic plants that for reasons known to few are illegal to harvest. OK to take GM plants, boil them down crunch and smash them and the result is the same on those who eat the natural organic plants.
Anything that is natural is good for us until one gets to the plants that some species thrive on and others die on.
Organic means to me that the food has not the strength of that raised with natural fertilizers, is open to disease or some kind of blight.
Damn people got to eat, we have bread because a way was found to make it into flour, same with corn.
Anyone one want to eat natural has to forgo the human influence in this and eat as the cave man did---and it sustained those dudes with no fire to cook, just organic foods.
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Sorry but my tribe eats anything that don't eat them first.
Have to say the GM in seeds and live stock is a problem, however all this stuff make us sterile and the hormones will put breasts on 9 year old girls, wild caught game may be full of pesticides-------
Why do we have organs of no critical use to our survival,? Why can we have organs removed from our body's and still live a long life without them.?
Lots of questions here.
First off is what the hell is organic, nightshade is organic but I don't advise anyone make a salad of it.
We have around the world perfectally good organic plants that for reasons known to few are illegal to harvest. OK to take GM plants, boil them down crunch and smash them and the result is the same on those who eat the natural organic plants.
Anything that is natural is good for us until one gets to the plants that some species thrive on and others die on.
Organic means to me that the food has not the strength of that raised with natural fertilizers, is open to disease or some kind of blight.
Damn people got to eat, we have bread because a way was found to make it into flour, same with corn.
Anyone one want to eat natural has to forgo the human influence in this and eat as the cave man did---and it sustained those dudes with no fire to cook, just organic foods.
I didn't read past the first sentence. Some girls are inclinded to that you realize right? My mother had her first cycle at age 9...she was born before chemically 'enhanced' foods and grew up outside of the states to boot.
As for being sterile, sure seems to be a lot of pregnant women around who grew up on this stuff and I managed to have 3 kids(and could have had more) despite growing up with all that sterile inducing food.
I'm not buying it...sorry...what I see around me, the boom for babies that happened in the 90's goes against your sterility argument. The strain on the social welfare systems alone speaks against the sterility argument.
As for developing early, there may be dietary changes that contribute to that. Higher fat diets...more fat on your body=more estrogen. More estrogen contributes to those changes in the body.
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I'll admit that I prefer to buy organic food when I have the option, but I usually buy it at the farmers market where it is much cheaper. Whole foods was selling organic pluots for 4.99 a pound (which is ridiculous), but all stone fruits, peaches, nectarines, pluots, and plums, were $2.00 a pound at the farmers market, which is pretty comparable to the regular fruit at the supermarket. I believe that most organic labeling is just marketing, so I don't usually bother buying prepackaged organic stuff, but I'm trying to avoid prepackaged food anyways at the moment ;-)
This is why my family laughs at me, I'm a definite conservative, using reusable bags and buying organic produce with a compost tumbler. I'm also the recycling nazi in my house, but that is because I have it set up in such a way that if they don't put it in the recycling, they are just lazy. :tongue:
BTW, Frank, CSA is Community Supported Agriculture. It is where you pay a local, small farmer a set amount, and you get a percentage of everything he grows for the season. Tends to be more expensive than buying food at the farmers market as far as I can tell, and you don't get to choose what you get. If he has a ton of zucchini and kale, then that is what you get.
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How many "organic" foods have caused outbreaks of salmanilla? How many "inorganic"? :thatsright:
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How many "organic" foods have caused outbreaks of salmanilla? How many "inorganic"? :thatsright:
Odwalla's juice outbreak is the only prominent organic food salmonella food outbreak I can think of, though there very well may be more. There have been quite a few inorganic salmonella food outbreaks (Spinach, Peanut Butter, Cookie Dough, Tomatoes, Peppers and others). Odwalla's was caused by not pasteurizing their juice (stupid move), and the others seem to be caused by things like workers defecating in the fields, unlicensed factories, and similar things. Neither option is really a way to prevent disease.
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Oh my. I'm still watching this bonfire, and it's very confusing.
There's a big argument between Grandma (the "hippywife" primitive) and the organizing primitive, the "readmoreoften" primitive. A really big spat.
And then some incoming primitive gets tombstoned.
And then the "readmoreoften" primitive, the organizing primitive, gets into a snit and decides to leave, handing over the reins to.....
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-18-09 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
94. So, you're telling poor people not only to ...what, spend the rent money on expensive food, but that the sad state of nutrition in this country is all our fault?
Are you so self-centered that you think that only muddle-class people like you exist in this country?
readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-18-09 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #94
98. I'll let you take it from here.
I've done wasted enough time.
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-18-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. Too bad you didn't "waste" time actually considering the real ability of people with less $$$$ to change anything at all.
You assume, because you don't think about poor people, that everyone is like you..... with plenty of $$$$$$ to spend on food.
Instead of blaming, which is one more game of the RW, how 'bout actually working for real CHANGE?
Like, for instance, researching why and how high fructose corn syrup became so widespread.
Then, using that knowledge, work to get it banned.
Or is it just much more fun to act superior and look down on those you consider beneath you?
It's really hostile, at that bonfire.
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Odwalla's juice outbreak is the only prominent organic food salmonella food outbreak I can think of, though there very well may be more. There have been quite a few inorganic salmonella food outbreaks (Spinach, Peanut Butter, Cookie Dough, Tomatoes, Peppers and others). Odwalla's was caused by not pasteurizing their juice (stupid move), and the others seem to be caused by things like workers defecating in the fields, unlicensed factories, and similar things. Neither option is really a way to prevent disease.
If I remember correctly, the last two (spinach) were organic, caused by the "organic" fertilizer.
The whole "organic" craze is just that, crazy. :mental:
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Bobo is nuts. You would think a homeless person would have better things to do than sit at a PC and chat about "holistic" medicine
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There is such a thing as an inorganic food ?
Coming soon to a store near you! (http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,30671.0.html) :-)
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Although it's fun watching bobbolink fight with the more fortunate primitives, she misses the point that most middle class people can't really afford organic foods in their budget either. We might tip a little over that middle and it's not affordable for us. Of course, were we not taxed so heavily in this state, perhaps we would have the money and I have to wonder who supported all these taxes on the 'rich' for social service programs...hmmm? :evillaugh:
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OK DUmmie has converted me, organic it is. I'll even contribute to the cause... free fertilizer......now which one of you DUmmies can swing by here and pump out my septic tank? I'd rather you do it while I'm at WAL-MART grocery shopping.
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Sorry but my tribe eats anything that don't eat them first.
Have to say the GM in seeds and live stock is a problem, however all this stuff make us sterile and the hormones will put breasts on 9 year old girls, wild caught game may be full of pesticides-------
Why do we have organs of no critical use to our survival,? Why can we have organs removed from our body's and still live a long life without them.?
Lots of questions here.
First off is what the hell is organic, nightshade is organic but I don't advise anyone make a salad of it.
We have around the world perfectally good organic plants that for reasons known to few are illegal to harvest. OK to take GM plants, boil them down crunch and smash them and the result is the same on those who eat the natural organic plants.
Anything that is natural is good for us until one gets to the plants that some species thrive on and others die on.
Organic means to me that the food has not the strength of that raised with natural fertilizers, is open to disease or some kind of blight.
Damn people got to eat, we have bread because a way was found to make it into flour, same with corn.
Anyone one want to eat natural has to forgo the human influence in this and eat as the cave man did---and it sustained those dudes with no fire to cook, just organic foods.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
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Sorry but my tribe eats anything that don't eat them first.
Have to say the GM in seeds and live stock is a problem, however all this stuff make us sterile and the hormones will put breasts on 9 year old girls, wild caught game may be full of pesticides-------
Why do we have organs of no critical use to our survival,? Why can we have organs removed from our body's and still live a long life without them.?
Lots of questions here.
First off is what the hell is organic, nightshade is organic but I don't advise anyone make a salad of it.
We have around the world perfectally good organic plants that for reasons known to few are illegal to harvest. OK to take GM plants, boil them down crunch and smash them and the result is the same on those who eat the natural organic plants.
Anything that is natural is good for us until one gets to the plants that some species thrive on and others die on.
Organic means to me that the food has not the strength of that raised with natural fertilizers, is open to disease or some kind of blight.
Damn people got to eat, we have bread because a way was found to make it into flour, same with corn.
Anyone one want to eat natural has to forgo the human influence in this and eat as the cave man did---and it sustained those dudes with no fire to cook, just organic foods.
Problem is cavemen rarely lived to the ripe old age of 30!!!!!!!!! Wonder why that was? Could it be the bacteria they consumed? course not!
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Simply put, if we all went organic over night the corporations would change to meet demand. They would follow the money. And what we buy sets the stage for everything else.
Currently, farmers toss their misshapen, unattractive, unappealing vegetables and fruits into an "organic" pile, and sell them to DUmmies and other oblivious hippie types for double the normal price of good produce.
If ALL DUmmies and hippie types "went organic", farmers would meet the demand by simply adding some of their properly shaped, attractive, and appealing vegetables and fruits to the "organic" pile, making the pile bigger, and better looking. It would still sell for double the normal price of good produce.
"Organic" is a gigantic scam, but the people being scammed are DUmmies, and farmers deserve every dime they can make.
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Although it's fun watching bobbolink fight with the more fortunate primitives, she misses the point that most middle class people can't really afford organic foods in their budget either. We might tip a little over that middle and it's not affordable for us. Of course, were we not taxed so heavily in this state, perhaps we would have the money and I have to wonder who supported all these taxes on the 'rich' for social service programs...hmmm? :evillaugh:
I remember in hard times, of living off potatoes, pancakes,(the kind ya just add water to) and the the deer I harvested! I doubt seriously any of the DUmbasses has had to do with what was available in short order. To start with, I doubt they could shoot Bambi! The one guy I read said he shot ground hogs. YUCK!! They're nothing more than RATS!
I mean how hungry can you get, living in mom's basement? I'm sure she won't starve ya to death! Though I have my doubts about whether she might want to.
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I would have to actually be starving to death before I would eat a groundhog. They are nasty. They smell so bad that it makes me gag when we trap one. My granny said they are good in stew though. I hope to never ever never find out.