The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: BlueStateSaint on June 13, 2009, 04:58:41 AM
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(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01423/bulldozer_house_1423077c.jpg)
Novel, I've got to admit . . .
US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
Dozens of US cities may have entire neighbourhoods bulldozed as part of drastic "shrink to survive" proposals being considered by the Obama administration to tackle economic decline.
By Tom Leonard in Flint, Michigan
Published: 6:30PM BST 12 Jun 2009
The government looking at expanding a pioneering scheme in Flint, one of the poorest US cities, which involves razing entire districts and returning the land to nature.
Local politicians believe the city must contract by as much as 40 per cent, concentrating the dwindling population and local services into a more viable area.
The radical experiment is the brainchild of Dan Kildee, treasurer of Genesee County, which includes Flint.
Having outlined his strategy to Barack Obama during the election campaign, Mr Kildee has now been approached by the US government and a group of charities who want him to apply what he has learnt to the rest of the country.
Mr Kildee said he will concentrate on 50 cities, identified in a recent study by the Brookings Institution, an influential Washington think-tank, as potentially needing to shrink substantially to cope with their declining fortunes.
The next few paragraphs go on to describe where those cities might be--think "Rust Belt."
Story at:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/5516536/US-cities-may-have-to-be-bulldozed-in-order-to-survive.html
How many would volunteer to drive the big Cats, anyway? :hyper:
'Course, we could . . . nuke the cities from orbit (to follow a theme on CC I've noticed lately) . . .
Please remember to put a picture with your OP - TRG
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It's the only way to be sure...
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If anyone has seen the destruction of a building they know that once you start the rats abandon that building and flee in every direction. I would much rather have the Flint/Detroit/Chicago rats stay right where they are.
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If anyone has seen the destruction of a building they know that once you start the rats abandon that building and flee in every direction. I would much rather have the Flint/Detroit/Chicago rats stay right where they are.
My thoughts exactly when I read this line....."Local politicians believe the city must contract by as much as 40 per cent, concentrating the dwindling population and local services into a more viable area."
I can just hear Obama now, "While I'm spreading the wealth around, I'm gonna spread the crime, drugs, violence and other shit to."
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BTW: I always liked tearing down stuff. I might come outta retirement for this. I'll hire myself a bunch of illegal, spainish speaking, pregnant, black, single moms and corner all the government contracts......now finding supervisors might be a problem.
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With our current environmental laws, it's more expensive to tear them down than it was to build them in the first place...and among those laws are the historic preservation ones as well. This is not going to be anywhere near as cheap as they're thinking, but I suppose it is still a net gain over the years, and if it's going to involve de-annexing land, it makes much more sense to do the tear-down before the land transaction since afterward the city has no more authority to do it.
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(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01423/bulldozer_house_1423077c.jpg)
Dozens of US cities may have entire neighbourhoods bulldozed as part of drastic "shrink to survive" proposals being considered by the Obama administration to tackle economic decline.
The US government is looking at expanding a pioneering scheme in Flint, one of the poorest US cities, which involves razing entire districts and returning the land to nature
The government looking at expanding a pioneering scheme in Flint, one of the poorest US cities, which involves razing entire districts and returning the land to nature.
Local politicians believe the city must contract by as much as 40 per cent, concentrating the dwindling population and local services into a more viable area.
The radical experiment is the brainchild of Dan Kildee, treasurer of Genesee County, which includes Flint.
Having outlined his strategy to Barack Obama during the election campaign, Mr Kildee has now been approached by the US government and a group of charities who want him to apply what he has learnt to the rest of the country.
Mr Kildee said he will concentrate on 50 cities, identified in a recent study by the Brookings Institution, an influential Washington think-tank, as potentially needing to shrink substantially to cope with their declining fortunes.
Most are former industrial cities in the "rust belt" of America's Mid-West and North East. They include Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Memphis.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/5516536/US-cities-may-have-to-be-bulldozed-in-order-to-survive.html
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:o
Start with Washington DC.
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With our current environmental laws, it's more expensive to tear them down than it was to build them in the first place...and among those laws are the historic preservation ones as well. This is not going to be anywhere near as cheap as they're thinking, but I suppose it is still a net gain over the years, and if it's going to involve de-annexing land, it makes much more sense to do the tear-down before the land transaction since afterward the city has no more authority to do it.
That is why you nuke 'em from orbit . . .
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Beat ya to it, Tx.
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,29841.0.html
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Start with oh-bumers home town - Chicago.
Is oh-bumer now a ROMAN EMPORER?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceausima someone posted this at RN and it is amazing
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With our current environmental laws, it's more expensive to tear them down than it was to build them in the first place...and among those laws are the historic preservation ones as well. This is not going to be anywhere near as cheap as they're thinking, but I suppose it is still a net gain over the years, and if it's going to involve de-annexing land, it makes much more sense to do the tear-down before the land transaction since afterward the city has no more authority to do it.
Laws? Where we're going we don't need laws. [/liberal-backtothefuturequote]
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Flint is the home town of Michael Moore, the king of compulsory shrink to fit.
If I were a homeowner who got a condemnation order to move so they could shrink to fit Flint, I would use the money to move somewhere, anywhere, else.
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Topics merged. It belongs in breaking news.
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Start with oh-bumers home town - Chicago.
Is oh-bumer now a ROMAN EMPORER?
Yeah, I read this far...
...as part of drastic "shrink to survive" proposals being considered by the Obama administration to tackle economic decline.
...and my WTF-o-meter was in the red.
- 1) What the hell is THE ØBAMA ADMINISTRATION doing dabbling in the realm of MUNICIPAL planning in the first damned place?!?! :thatsright: Oh, right; silly me. It's The ReichsMessiah...
- 2) It seems to me that the only way for Lord Ø to get his hooks into these cities is for them to be bankrupting themselves, and for the *******ed Øbama Administration to declare them "too big to fail", and then fill their city treasuries with all kinds of bail-out monies - and the associated strings that come with them.
- 3) Apparently I just stepped across into the *******ed Twilight friggin' Zone this morning when I got out of bed, because in the universe I was born and raised in, this little thing called, ohhhhhh PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS stand in the way of Lord Ø pulling something like this off. Even attempting to use Eminent Domain in this case would be WAAAAAY ****ed up, because the property isn't truely in his jurisdiction. He'd have to have willing accomplices in each city council to issue the Eminent Domain writs.
I guess this is Lord Ø's (latest) sop to the environmentalist whack-jobs. ****er.
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Does anyone recall that 0Bama talked about ridding the US of urban sprawl as a means of greening up the environment, and lessening pollution, by doing away with the need for cars in cities? :whatever:
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SO, Obama is basically talking about forced gentrification - Which is fine by me, but lots of others look at gentrification as taking a neighborhood away from poor folks by making it too expensive for them to live there.. And the race-baters will also add that gentrification makes the neighborhoods 'too white' as well.
Hows that 'hope-n-change working out for ya' , moonbats ?
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SO, Obama is basically talking about forced gentrification "Project-ification"...
Fixorated :II:
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Fixorated :II:
indeed - what the country needs are more short-term government jobs.. ::)
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(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01423/bulldozer_house_1423077c.jpg)
Novel, I've got to admit . . .
The next few paragraphs go on to describe where those cities might be--think "Rust Belt."
Story at:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/5516536/US-cities-may-have-to-be-bulldozed-in-order-to-survive.html
How many would volunteer to drive the big Cats, anyway? :hyper:
'Course, we could . . . nuke the cities from orbit (to follow a theme on CC I've noticed lately) . . .
Please remember to put a picture with your OP - TRG
Hi,
This reeks of so much government BS I want to scream. I grew up in the Chicago area and spent some of my childhood in the inner city. When I was 5-6 years old (mid 1940's), I liven in a very nice apartment complex called the Marshall Field apartments. Neighborhood was great etc. Over the next twenty years the neighborhood and they built Cabrini Green housing two blocks away and it turned into a ghetto big time. Well a few years ago, the government decided that Cabrini-Green was a failure, they tore it down because they owned it anyway and now the neighborhood is coming back and the real estate and tax base is very expensive.
What is my point? If the city will just stop screwing around with the economic system called capitalism the system will take care of itself.
My wife's cousin went into downtown Nashville about 25 years ago because he won a bar in a poker game working in the oil fields out west. It was a dump, lots of drug deals taking place etc. He realized he had to clean it up so he quietly paid the police to continue raiding the place until he got the riff-raff out. He looked up and down the street and realized there was lots of potential and bought up several boarded up buildings and opened about six bars because he felt the area could be a gold mine. He has since sold most of them off but still owns a few. For those of you who have never figured it out, the area is knows as "Printer's Alley" in Nashville and is thriving.
This entire thing is one more way big brother can throw folks out and do their bidding. If they will give it time things will take care of themselves.
regards,
5412
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:o
Start with Washington DC.
Now THAT'S an idea with ALL KINDS of merit!
A cyber H5 to ya! :II:
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This has been tried before. It worked so well for the Communist and the Nazi's. What it didn't work out so well for was the people living there.
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This has been tried before. It worked so well for the Communist and the Nazi's. What it didn't work out so well for was the people living there.
That's why I see this as a great big "Project-ification" of America from the Øbamessiah. People massed into ramshackle gummint projects in dirty, crowded cities are easier to control than are suburbanites sprawled across a broader landscape. Smaller city footprints makes it easier for teh Øbamessiah to confiscate private vehicles and force people to be reliant upon gummint-operated public transportation.
That's what this line in the article:
Local politicians believe the city must contract by as much as 40 per cent, concentrating the dwindling population and local services into a more viable area.
...was all about.
Of course those who are resistant or less than grateful to their Øbamessiah for the gummint housing he shall provide them, may find themselves on the receiving end of personal, hands-on tutoring from the Øbamessiah's acolytes at specially constructed "revival camps" for the occasion.
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Stupid solution done by stupid people for stupid opinions (not facts). There are many solutions, and they've picked the worst.
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I can see at least one major problem with trying to physically reduce the size of a city. I don't know about other places, but here, many of the businesses that provide taxes for the city are on the outskirts of the town. I can't see any city willingly giving up any part of their tax base.
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They've already been driven out by over taxation. They need mfg. back then tjhe rest follows.
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I read an article about this a few weeks ago in some email that I got from a Realtor site.
It was not this specific article, but along the same line of tearing down houses.
According to the article....it many of these cities, particularly in the northeast (Rust Belt)....because people could not sell their houses after they lost their jobs, nor pay the mortgage, there are an abundance of properties that have been abandoned. Some for several years.
The article noted that along with no one to purchase these homes, many of which are nice, large, at one time very good family-type homes...they have been abandoned for so long that they are becoming structurally unsound. Wood rot, termites, moisture issues causing severe mold problems, and general decay, are making these homes suffer from structural obsolescence in that it would cost too much to recover the property, even if there were qualified buyers.
Razing the houses, and turning the cleared land into city/community cared for properties is about all that can be done with them. Until jobs come back into the area, bringing the local economy back, there will not be buyers with the exception of speculators who will want to own the land.
Even here, where I live, we have a surplus of homes. After the hurricane season of 2005 and 06, many builders were building homes in the $300-600,000 range, hoping to get people leaving the Florida area to get away from the hurricanes. Like Florida, we donot have state income tax and we have fairly reasonable housing compared to many areas of the country. Well....they didn't come from Florida, because they couldn't sell their homes in Florida. Some local people moved up and had two mortgages....ending up taking a loss on their prior homes. Now, we have an oversupply of houses in most price ranges, but really high, from $250,000 on up. Builder properties, finished and unfinished are going on the auction block or into foreclosure.
I saw a 3700 SF all brick house the other day in the MLS, all that's done is the brick and the windows are in, house is framed in, in a $350,000-$500,000 subdivision for $99,000!!!!! That's crazy! The lot is tax valued at around $50,000.
The whole housing market anywhere in the country, is so incredibly unpredictable right now..... :(
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I saw a 3700 SF all brick house the other day in the MLS, all that's done is the brick and the windows are in, house is framed in, in a $350,000-$500,000 subdivision for $99,000!!!!! That's crazy! The lot is tax valued at around $50,000.
Is it in a nice neighborhood? Send me the address :p
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me too! :cheersmate:
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Houses, roads... who needs 'em?
Rural Mich. counties turn failing roads to gravel (http://www.wwmt.com/articles/roads-1363526-mich-counties.html)
More than 20 of the state's 83 counties have reverted deteriorating paved roads to gravel in the last few years, according to the County Road Association of Michigan. The counties are struggling with their budgets because tax revenues have declined in the lingering recession.
The county estimates it takes about $10,000 to grind up a mile of pavement and put down gravel. It takes more than $100,000 to repave a mile of road.
Reverting to gravel has happened in a few other states but it is most typical in Michigan. At least 50 miles have been reverted in the state in the past three years.
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My property is on a gravel road. No way in hell is it ever gonna be paved - it's only a quarter mile.
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Most of the roads where I grew up were oil/gravel roads. I can remember using gas to get that stuff of my feet. I can still remember the sound of gravel hitting the underside of a car on freshly covered roads.
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Most of the roads where I grew up were oil/gravel roads. I can remember using gas to get that stuff of my feet. I can still remember the sound of gravel hitting the underside of a car on freshly covered roads.
Yeah, what a concept! Spreading oil on dirt roads to keep the dust down! And today, the idea of dumping a quart of oil along a weedy area to kill the grass is something that can result in an arrest warrant these days.
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Yeah, what a concept! Spreading oil on dirt roads to keep the dust down! And today, the idea of dumping a quart of oil along a weedy area to kill the grass is something that can result in an arrest warrant these days.
:lmao: When I was a kid, my dad used to have me dump his used oil down the storm drain at the far end of the cul-de-sac.
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Yeah, what a concept! Spreading oil on dirt roads to keep the dust down! And today, the idea of dumping a quart of oil along a weedy area to kill the grass is something that can result in an arrest warrant these days.
Ah yes, and a friend of mine father use to run a successful business oiling "camp" roads. Problem was back then oil was oil and well, transformers use to have oil in them which contained PCB's. He used the same equipment in a septic tank business, who's business he spread over fields. Of course the fields were near wetlands / brooks and ponds......oh my. Was any of this intentional? Nope. Did it do some real environmental harm? Probably.
And now a word from our friends at the DUMP (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3920427) on this very topic.
Dr_Willie_Feelgood (5 posts) Fri Jun-12-09 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. I am a cab driver in Metro Detroit
I drive the streets and neighborhoods. I see the empty, burned out shells. And the sad reality is, most of the city is a disaster.
There is no way to effectively rehab most of these properties. Once it is abandoned (and sometimes even when occupied), the wiring, the plumbing, anything of value is stripped out.
The city is SUPPOSED to enforce the law, to watch to scrapyards, etc. but the task is overwhelming when the understaffed PD is running their tails off from call to call.
As for relying on the homeless to homestead and fix them, many in that situation are incapable or unwilling. They need supervision and assistance, not to be thrown into a dangerous situation they are financially, mentally, and/or emotionally unequipped to deal with.
Bust the blight, assist the weak, and let the city regrow organically!
Yet another low post Urban Pioneer chimes in:
greengestalt (49 posts) Sat Jun-13-09 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
38. Property crime
First, these areas used to be primarily farmland. Till Judd the Farmer was bankrupted by being blocked from the local markets and Big Ag undercutting him with stuff flown from 1000 miles away but due to US Pork bailout being far cheaper than he could ever grow.
But this is to inflate property values. If a bank has a thousand foreclosed houses, it can't get people to beg to sign a faustian loan for them. It's lost all it's money and will beg them to buy a $100,000 house (today's prices) for $10,000 just so they can avoid being taken over by the feds...
But if they can bulldoze all these economic slums, they'll reduce the supply of homes and increase demand by definition.
Its property crime, Its a human rights violation.
Here's what they should do and what we could make them do:
Make them liable for the property they own, so that if someone cooks meth in an abandoned house, they are responsible for the cleanup...etc. So they not only own all these homes, but they have to maintain them. But they can 'donate' the house to a homeless charity -or- sell it at low prices that charities can help people match. (or they can also not foreclose on the homeowner but reduce what they demand so they get some money, not more property) A good other point is to keep pressuring local officials to use the law on employers that hire illegals. No illegals means more jobs that have to be filled, so plenty of unemployed people could then get jobs. Low wage but humane and combined with low property values equates to the beginnings of a better standard of living. People can pick themselves up then, and most will greatly given the opportunity.
:fuelfire:
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Yeard ago I saw a Simplex/Crane parked in the street. A beautiful speedster model. Oil was leaking from the still hot engine. The owner was in a nearby cafe, I told him of the "leak", and he smiled. He said the engine was a "total loss" oiling system. The oil went thru the engine, into the crank case, then out onto the ground. about a quart every 50 miles. The oil resivoir was 5 gallons. The enging was the original UNREBUILT as the oil had never carried contaminants from wear or combustion thru it. In the day, they were well liked as they kept the dust down.....
Looks as if they may again be popular.....
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50 miles of state road has reverted to gravel roads....HA....20 years ago my county alone had over 1800 miles of dirt road they maintained.