The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: gcruse on June 05, 2009, 06:23:58 PM
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http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner~y2009m6d2-Texas-cop-Tasers-greatgrandmother
June 2, 12:10 PM · 14 comments
(http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/RichardMcCain.jpg)
A traffic stop for speeding in Travis County, Texas, led to the Tasering of a 72-year-old great-grandmother by a deputy. Feisty Kathryn Winkfein apparently so frightened the law-enforcement officer when she "used some profanity" and "got violent" that he felt it necessary to subdue her with a potentially dangerous jolt of electricity.
Winkfein was reportedly doing 60 in a construction zone where the posted speed limit was 45 when she was pulled over. She was ticketed but declined to sign the ticket, leading the police officer to place her under arrest lest civilization collapse for want of the surrender of a penny's worth of ink.
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After being Tasered along the road for failing to put pen to paper, Kathryn Winkfein was taken to jail and booked for resisting arrest and detention. Not surprisingly, she's hired a lawyer.
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I don't know if this is supposed to be funny, but I kind of found it so!!! LOL
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That Grandma!
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I want to see the video from his patrol car. I hope that a) he had one b) he was using it properly so it was all caught on tape.
I don't want to see it for grins and giggles. I want to see how it happened.
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Once again, the Jack Booted Thugs use a device to enforce compliance instead of using their God given talents. I've had several people refuse to sign their traffic citations. I just annotated it, gave them their copy, and went on my way. Regardless, if they didn't show up for court, they got a bench warrant. Never had any dismissed due to refusal to sign.
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Okay Thor--what if she had in fact gotten physical with the cop first? While I'm hoping he did not overreact and would be the first to call for his head if he had, rule number one in dealing with Mr. Policeman is that if you take a swing, it will not end well for you.
In the words of Ron White, "I didn't know how many of them it would take to kick my ass, but I knew how many they were gonna USE."
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Once again, the Jack Booted Thugs use a device to enforce compliance instead of using their God given talents. I've had several people refuse to sign their traffic citations. I just annotated it, gave them their copy, and went on my way. Regardless, if they didn't show up for court, they got a bench warrant. Never had any dismissed due to refusal to sign.
You sir, are a tribute to the police force and the publics' perception. Thank you :cheersmate:
As for the officer in the article, I'm with Dixie in wanting to witness the patrol car video. As I can't possibly construe a reasonable need to taser an old lady over such an incident.
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My granny has dementia. She has beaten the living crap out of people in her nursing home. It got so bad that they had to give her sedatives enough to make her a semi conscious zombie like being. Do I think she would jump a cop over a speeding ticket if she had the chance? Without a doubt. She was a very big lady when she was healthy. She could definitely do some damage. I would much rather a cop taser her than shoot her if that is what it comes down to.
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I still want to see the dash-cam video before I pass judgement on either party.
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I do too. Like in the Rodney King video usually the person deserves the actions they cause. Granny may have been on crack or something too.
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[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZF14tCecvo[/youtube]
I think the cop over reacted and he did push her first.
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I stand by my post on this subject. There are few legitimate causes to use a Taser on an unarmed person. That's NOT why they were invented!!
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That cop deserves to be reprimanded at a minimum. From looking at that tape she was doing nothing to warrant being tasered. I hope she sues the hell out of the cop and the city for police brutality.
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I stand by my post on this subject. There are few legitimate causes to use a Taser on an unarmed person. That's NOT why they were invented!!
I disagree, I think there are very few offenses when the person doesn't need to be tasered. I think, in fact, that there are very few people alive that don't need tasering every now and then. Hell, I need to be tasered right now for being so dang crabby.
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I stand by my post on this subject. There are few legitimate causes to use a Taser on an unarmed person. That's NOT why they were invented!!
I've always been under the impression that their original intent was as an alternative to lethal force. As an option to use, instead of shooting the individual, when situations actually would warrant use of firearms. Was that never the case?
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Ummm, yeah, I was under the impression that tasering a perp was merely a way to keep a situation from getting further out of control and to avoid the use of deadly force.
If that isn't the case, then what the hell is the taser for? Something else to load up on a pistol belt?
It'd be cool if Spock had trademarked his neck grip, but Star Trek went belly up before that happened.
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here's a different view of the video
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbnoDkS36Dc[/youtube]
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She literally ASKED TO BE TASED. I don't see the problem.
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I've always been under the impression that their original intent was as an alternative to lethal force. As an option to use, instead of shooting the individual, when situations actually would warrant use of firearms. Was that never the case?
No, that is EXACTLY the case!!! A "less than lethal" alternative to shooting someone and killing them. I had a conversation about this very subject today with a retired US Marshal. He concurred with my beliefs.
Mamacags, you're full of shit. The Taser has been subverted and misused. It has become a weapon to enforce compliance. IMO, it's a pretty limp-dicked cop that must resort to the use of a taser to enforce compliance. There are many OTHER alternatives that can and SHOULD be used to enforce compliance. We'll start with tact & leadership. ;)
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I don't think sayin "taze me" to a cop is really smart....
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Thor you are full of shit. I seriously think you got your assed tased once and you are on a crusade to save the masses. What would you have done in that situation? Bluff and bluster, try to handcuff her? She was losing her shit, she lied about the entire situation, and actually asked to be tased. You always seem to side with the criminals in every taser thread. Why is that?
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I still think the tasing was too much. Yes the woman was argumentative , but she's a small woman and 72 years old. The officer could have easily hurt her just by pushing her, but he didn't.
I agree that the tasers were provided as an alternative to deadly force, and even the not so deadly force of the baton. It seems that in some instances, not often fortunately, that the officers use them for any minor confrontation, whether it's physical or not. I seriously doubt that in this case the officer was in fear for his personal safety.
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Based on the dashboard video, it's my impression that the PO woke up on the wrong side of the bed that morning. Hey, it happens sometimes. In trying to "move" granny out of traffic, as he claims, he shoved her which caused granny to spiral out of control.
I've never been an LEO, so I can't say this or that about any of it. It's a tough gig and the cops who do their jobs day in and day out deserve much more respect and courtesy than they actually get - especially from cranky grannies who have their panties in a wad and snotnose kids who deserve an asskicking.
All the same, it's my impression that the cop overreacted. Tasing the woman was probably overkill. I don't think he was in any physical danger (except from a passing motorist - for some reason, I always expect some asshole to come careening from out of camera toward the cop and the motorist on the street, thereby flattening them both).
In this case, I agree with Thor. The cop should've just annotated the ticket that she refused to sign, and go on his way. There never would've been a physical confrontation had he done that. The cop has the training and the wherewithal to keep situations in perspective - I think he failed to do that in this case.
The Sergeant Major was protecting his subordinate - that much was plain to see. Made me wonder if this particular cop had had similar trouble in the past.
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Seems like using the taser was the easy way out. It takes more effort and thought to stay in control without using the taser.
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Thor you are full of shit. I seriously think you got your assed tased once and you are on a crusade to save the masses. What would you have done in that situation? Bluff and bluster, try to handcuff her? She was losing her shit, she lied about the entire situation, and actually asked to be tased. You always seem to side with the criminals in every taser thread. Why is that?
Well, aren't You "special"?!?!?!?
I would have used some tact and etiquette. I would have convinced her that it was a bad idea to cross the white line into traffic. Like I said, I DID that job for five years. I DIDN'T have a Taser and never needed one. Hell, I had a baton, a five cell maglight, handcuffs, and a sidearm. Never used any of those. I have drawn my sidearm a couple of times. I've never used one, needed to use one, or have ever been tased. I also was NEVER once investigated for excessive use of force. ;)
Again, like I said, Tasers were NEVER meant to be a compliance weapon. I know of a US Marshal (ret) that supports my convictions on Tasers, as he was a law enforcement officer when they came out, too. I am against the use of excessive force by our police officers. I am also against the militarization of our police. I'm against no knock warrants except under very extreme circumstances. That said, with today's criminals, the police do need to be equally armed and prepared. It's a fine line which often gets crossed.
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Yes I am very special. Thanks for noticing.
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The problem here that no ones pointed out is that at that age tasing someone could have led to serious problems other then what is being presented. The lady could have had a history of heart problems and one jolt could have ended her right there. The lawsuit from that alone could have cost millions.
On the other hand if granny had simply followed the damn traffic laws in the first place she would havehad a nice day like all the rest. No need to taser her but she escalated the whole thing first. All the cop needed to do is what is called controlled escalation I think. Start talking to her,then warn her tha you will take action and what action or actions that will be,Call for back up, Then if nessecary use as little force as needed to control her. Mace would have been a better option but you have potential trouble over that too.
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What I wonder is why the Constable had her get out of her vehicle. Even if someone refused to sign their traffic citation, I never had them exit the vehicle. It's pretty much not a safe thing to do. (Traffic, etc) Only under suspicious circumstances would I ever require someone to exit their vehicle (suspected drugs, contraband, arms, etc). Even then, it became a vehicle search.
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What I wonder is why the Constable had her get out of her vehicle. Even if someone refused to sign their traffic citation, I never had them exit the vehicle. It's pretty much not a safe thing to do. (Traffic, etc) Only under suspicious circumstances would I ever require someone to exit their vehicle (suspected drugs, contraband, arms, etc). Even then, it became a vehicle search.
Yeah, that's why I said that it looked like the LEO got up on the wrong side of the bed. He went from zero to pissed off in about 0.23 nanoseconds.