The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: Thor on June 01, 2009, 11:17:30 AM
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Details will be forthcoming. Was just on Fox News that two Army Recruiters were shot in Little Rock, Arkansas. The perpetrator was arrested. Not much other detail available at the moment.
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Details will be forthcoming. Was just on Fox News that two Army Recruiters were shot in Little Rock, Arkansas. The perpetrator was arrested. Not much other detail available at the moment.
Let's see how much outrage from the left this generates....
any bets?
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Screw their outrage. Try ours, DUmmies. Come get a taste.
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Bad Cat, are you kidding ?!?!?!?!? The Left will probably celebrate this travesty.
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the DUmp has noted it. Only one reply asking what the modivation was.
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Little Rock police are investigating a double shooting at a west Little Rock shopping center.
Two people were wounded outside an Army recruiting office in the Ashley Square Shopping Center off Rodney Parham Road near Reservoir Road.
According to Little Rock police, someone inside a black SUV opened fire on two recruiters standing outside the office. The victims are reportedly in serious condition.
Little Rock police caught up with the suspect at the intersection of I-30 and I-630 near downtown Little Rock. Little Rock Police Lt. Terry Hastings says weapons were found inside the SUV. Hastings says the suspect is connected to the Army but wouldn't elaborate.
http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=85963&catid=2
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Connected to the Army? How, exactly?
Disgruntled DEPper?
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Link:
http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0609/627959.html
I suspect BadCat was being a tad sarcastic.
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It appears that one of the Army Recruiters has died.
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — Police in Arkansas say a military recruiter has been killed in a shooting at an Army-Navy recruiting office in Little Rock and a second recruiter has been wounded.
Little Rock police Lt. Terry Hastings said one recruiter was fatally wounded when a man inside a black SUV fired shots at the office in west Little Rock at about 10:30 a.m.
The SUV was stopped on a highway a short time later and a suspect was taken into custody.
Hastings said the suspect pulled over and surrendered without incident. Police found an assault rifle in the vehicle.
The motive for the shootings was not immediately known.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/national/6452582.html
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Apparently they weren't even recruiters--just guys home on HARP duty....
LINK (http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0609/627959.html)
According to Army Lt. Col. Thomas F. Artis, the two victims were not recruiters, but part of a recruiting program called "Hometown Recruiting Assistance." Artis says recruiters use soldiers to tell their stories and talk to potential recruits while they are visiting or based back in their home region.
Photo of the (alleged) perp:
(http://www.acc-tv.com/images/katv/news/shooting_060109_suspect.jpg)
Any bets as to how long it'll take Obummer to denounce this shooting?
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I wonder how recently he changed his name to Abu, Muhammed, etc?
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Apparently they weren't even recruiters--just guys home on HARP duty....
LINK (http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0609/627959.html)
Photo of the (alleged) perp:
(http://www.acc-tv.com/images/katv/news/shooting_060109_suspect.jpg)
Any bets as to how long it'll take Obummer to denounce this shooting?
I was thinking that HARP was TAD and looked upon as an extended leave to your hometown for like 6 months or so? I remember one of my crew mates getting assigned to it when his first child was born, but this was back in the mid 80's.
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More like a couple of weeks--we had kids do it when I was in recruiting. Basically you got to double your time at home between duty stations as long as part of that time was doing HARP.
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I wonder how recently he changed his name to Abu, Muhammed, etc?
That's anicent history...he's back to being Da'Qwanius Impelius Jackson or something since the shooting.
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Now they're saying that one of them has died.
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It appears that one of the Army Recruiters has died.
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — Police in Arkansas say a military recruiter has been killed in a shooting at an Army-Navy recruiting office in Little Rock and a second recruiter has been wounded.
Now they're saying that one of them has died.
Only 2½ hours late, HFB....... :whatever:
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To bad the electric chair is no longer used.
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Even in the drugged out state of mind I'm in, the just fills me with rage. I'd love to be the one who found the ****wads who did this.
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Police arrested Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, 23, along a crosstown interstate moments after the shootings at the Army-Navy Career Center in a shopping center in west Little Rock.
Muhammad acted alone, the police chief said, and based on an interview with officers, the suspect "probably had political and religious motives for the attack." He lived in an apartment just 1.5 miles from the recruiting center. A search warrant had been obtained for the apartment.
Thomas said Muhammad, previously known as Carlos Bledsoe, would be charged with first-degree murder, plus 15 counts of committing a terroristic act. Thomas said those counts result from the gunfire occurring near other people.
The accused shooter's father, Melvin Bledsoe of Memphis, Tenn., hung up on a reporter who called about his son's arrest Monday night.
Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090601/ap_on_re_us/us_recruiters_shot)
Will the DUmmies ignore the fact that the gunman was a member of the Religion of Peacetm?
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So the war has come home, eh?
What are the odds they'll claim it was anything but an attack against this country.
I'm not sure what higher is going to do, but my guys will be warned to be armed.
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Wow! He's a recent Muslim convert?! I'm shocked....
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It seems to me that this is the fault of the anti-military left. You can't call military men "Baby-Killers" and blame recruiters for every military death for years without some lefty deciding to take the matter into his own hands. How many DUmp threads were there that condemned recruiters for talking "kids" into signing up and getting killed? How many DUmp threads called the recruiters "murderers?" How many leftist colleges have denied military recruiters permission to come on campus because they "promote violence?" How many Code Pink protesters have labeled the military and recruiters with the vilest of terms?
Make no mistake, this is absolutely the fault of the anti-military left. They all have blood on their hands. The Obama administration needs to provide federal protection for every military recruiter immediately...and needs to shut down these violent anti-military protesters that are trying to force their views on the entire country through savage acts.
(Did I pretty much copy the reaction to Tiller's death? Did I miss anything?)
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This means the entire left has lost their 'moral authority' and that leftists in the media are assessory to murder
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To bad the electric chair is no longer used.
Maybe they can find one that's not being used and beat him with it.
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Wow! He's a recent Muslim convert?! I'm shocked....
Every time I meet one of those fools, I'd like to ask them what their mama named them. I imagine they wouldn't take it too well. The only one I've actually met had a dozen different "names" he went by.
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Just read an update. Neither man was a recruiter. They where both Active Duty members who where home on the Recruiters Assistance Program.
:taps:
Edit: I guess NHS had already posted this.
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Just read an update. Neither man was a recruiter. They where both Active Duty members who where home on the Recruiters Assistance Program.
:taps:
I stick to the headlines
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Every time I meet one of those fools, I'd like to ask them what their mama named them. I imagine they wouldn't take it too well. The only one I've actually met had a dozen different "names" he went by.
Hi,
What a damn shame! This is gonna really give the left some problems. First the killer is black....so it was really the fault of the evil, rich greedy white man, the poor lad was misunderstood.
On the other hand he had an ASSUALT weapon. No kidding, isn't any weapon used to kill another an assualt weapon? The gun control folks should be on that like cops on doughnuts. And, God forbid, he had a blg SUV....
What a dilemma that puts them in because the left feels such empathy for the poor downtrodden minority trying to find their way.....but he did have an ASSUALT weapon and an SUV. So which way does the compliant media go on the matter? They have to wait until they get their talking points from the DNC before they take a stand on this one. I am sure if the guy got convicted and the case was appealed to the current supreme court nominee she would find some way to reduce his sentence like having to write "I was a bad boy" on the blackboard 100 times or something.
Personally, I do not think the government has to protect the recuriters at all, all the military has to do is make carrying a weapon part of their Uniform of the Day and they will do a fine job protecting themselves. Yeah, I am outraged and I agree with the poster that blames the left and their anti-military crap.
Why do I feel that if BO even issues a statement it will be something very bland.....
nite,
5412
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Personally, I do not think the government has to protect the recuriters at all, all the military has to do is make carrying a weapon part of their Uniform of the Day and they will do a fine job protecting themselves.
Eric Holder sent the US Marshalls to protect all the abortion centers. As if there was some mass mayhem going on.
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"the dear leader" will not condemn the shooting, unlike his outrage when "TILLER THE BABY BUTCHER" was gunned down at a church.
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You know I never really understood how a Muslim can't draw a picture of Muhammad but they can take his name. To me that is disrespectful. Of course why anyone would want a mass murderer and child molesters name is beyond me.
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:censored:
Recruiting Center Shooting Suspect Under FBI Investigation (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,524139,00.html)
The suspect, Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, reportedly had been under investigation by the FBI Joint Terrorist Task Force after he traveled to Yemen and was arrested there for using a Somali passport.
According to ABC News, the investigation was in its early stages and was based on Muhammad's travel to Yemen. While there, Muhammed, a recent convert to Islam, studied jihad with an Islamic scholar, Jihadwatch.org reported.
A police report based on an interview with the suspect said Muhammad, 23, told police he observed two soldiers in uniform on Monday, drove up to the recruiting center in Little Rock and started shooting.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,524139,00.html
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Never expected us to get back to pre 9/11 mentality this fast
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The recent Islamic Terrorist Attack on a Recruiting Station by an American Citizen turned to Islam should leave no doubt in anyone's mind that this is anything but a Overseas Contingency Operation.
The loss of one of our soldiers and the wounding of another is nothing more than an Assault upon this country by an enemy who is driven to destroy us. Will this administration, now that a Terrorist Attack has happened on their watch, do anything other than blame disgruntled veterans and patriotic citizens?
The utter silence coming out of the West Wing is further proof that this president is more concerned with using strong armed Chicago gangland tactics to shut down debate against it's leftist policies rather than the murder of one of this country's armed forces.
At the very least, the president should condem radical islam and strive to shut down the centers of hate that recruited the attacker, led him to Yemen to lean to despise his own country, and took him down the path to murder in the name of his god.
The two soldiers should be recognised by the president and awarded both the Purple Heart for wounds recieved by an enemy, and the Bronze Star for the soldier who was killed in action.
I doubt we will see any such action from this administration, for it would force them to acknowledge that we are fighting a global war and not some limited police action.
The fact that the Commander in Chief has not made a statement, nor the Joint Chiefs, nor any Military command is glaring. Units across the United States should be raising their readiness status. Recruiting Stations should be armed. Soldiers off duty should be prepared to defend themselves.
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What can I say that I haven't elsewhere many times over? I forgot I even had an account here, so sorry for my absence. Eitherway, I'm equally shocked and appalled and was up at 2:30 am getting all my thoughts out there on the issue.
American Muslims need to be on this like white on rice to ensure we prevent incidents like this as much as possible from happening again. As Thor pointed out on my blog we need a new PR firm, moreso we need a better education mechanism. Granted, there isn't much one can do about someone leaving the country to learn hate (at least that proves that it isn't "homegrown") however, between the authorities and Muslims something has to be in place to accurately monitor and protect against those who go elsewhere in order to bring that evil back to their country of origin.
Now I'm not going to get into the blatant negativity or insults hurled at my religion in this thread and beyond as I expect that these days given the environment and the location of my commentary, but know that no matter how many times some non-Muslims and the terrorists want to call or state that my faith promotes violence, will make it anymore true. For every terrorist who claims to be a Muslim, there are are millions more who live in peace and coexist with non-Muslims here in America and the world over without incident and for centuries.
These two soldiers should be honored for their service and it's disturbing to hear nothing from senior officials in the DOD or Administration at this point. Who knows their reasoning behind being silent. If I took a stab at it, it may have to do with Obama's mideast trip not wanting to stir the pot anymore than it already is. Granted, as a black Muslim convert, I'm not that interested in another round of suspicious looks and comments, but at the same time, sweeping this incident under a rug, won't make it go away either.
My prayers and thoughts are with the victims families and our nation always.
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What can I say that I haven't elsewhere many times over? I forgot I even had an account here, so sorry for my absence. Eitherway, I'm equally shocked and appalled and was up at 2:30 am getting all my thoughts out there on the issue.
American Muslims need to be on this like white on rice to ensure we prevent incidents like this as much as possible from happening again. As Thor pointed out on my blog we need a new PR firm, moreso we need a better education mechanism. Granted, there isn't much one can do about someone leaving the country to learn hate (at least that proves that it isn't "homegrown") however, between the authorities and Muslims something has to be in place to accurately monitor and protect against those who go elsewhere in order to bring that evil back to their country of origin.
Now I'm not going to get into the blatant negativity or insults hurled at my religion in this thread and beyond as I expect that these days given the environment and the location of my commentary, but know that no matter how many times some non-Muslims and the terrorists want to call or state that my faith promotes violence, will make it anymore true. For every terrorist who claims to be a Muslim, there are are millions more who live in peace and coexist with non-Muslims here in America and the world over without incident and for centuries.
These two soldiers should be honored for their service and it's disturbing to hear nothing from senior officials in the DOD or Administration at this point. Who knows their reasoning behind being silent. If I took a stab at it, it may have to do with Obama's mideast trip not wanting to stir the pot anymore than it already is. Granted, as a black Muslim convert, I'm not that interested in another round of suspicious looks and comments, but at the same time, sweeping this incident under a rug, won't make it go away either.
My prayers and thoughts are with the victims families and our nation always.
Sarge, I'll give ya the credit for speaking out against this, but I also have to say this. For every terrorist who claims to be a Muslim, there are millions more who are silent about deeds carried out in the "name of their religion", now and for the past few decades.
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Sounds like a terrorist attack to me.
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Sarge, I'll give ya the credit for speaking out against this, but I also have to say this. For every terrorist who claims to be a Muslim, there are millions more who are silent about deeds carried out in the "name of their religion", now and for the past few decades.
Silence=Acceptance
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Realistically, we cannot do much more that what we are currently doing to prevent idiots like these. Nor has any solutions from our critics come up. In fact, many of them wouldn't be happy no matter what we do or say unless we left our faith. At best, we need to ramp up our education efforts in the Mosques and be more like a true brotherhood and sisterhood to ensure our ranks are not being infiltrated by murders.
From your website. http://salaamsblog.wordpress.com/
Certainly, many have heard about the abortion doctor's murder by a Christianist, radical extremist Christian, Christian terrorist, etc. (don’t like when it’s your religion huh?) this weekend where an abortion doctor was killed in the church and a fellow Christian of the same sect murdered him because of differing ideologies.
I have heard much about the murder of Dr. Tiller. The president of the US has commented on it. I am sure by now, the DOJ under the direction of Mr. Holder is pouring FBI agents into various anti-abortion groups trying to uncover a plot.
What I have not heard much about is the assassination of a soldier and the wounding of another on active duty by a radical islamic extremest. The leftists would have me believe this is just a random act that has nothing to do with a radical form of your religion regardless of the fact the person in question traveled to Yemen to train for just sort of an attack. I find it hard to believe that in the same breath the left would tell us about Christian terrorism and hush any attempt to call this attack Islamic terrorism.
Although reports in the news claim he was under FBI investigation, I wonder how much time the FBI had to investigate and if they're time was spent looking into veterans' groups and tea parties.
I read your thoughts on the issues. I would have thought that decrying the assassination would have been good enough, but you went on to try to figure out how best to deflect any negative feelings towards your religion. It makes me wonder which concerns you most- the death of a US soldier, or bad press.
Given the verbage towards the latter, I don't doubt it mirrors the current administration concerns.
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Sarge, I'll give ya the credit for speaking out against this, but I also have to say this. For every terrorist who claims to be a Muslim, there are millions more who are silent about deeds carried out in the "name of their religion",now and for the past few decades.
....for the past 140 decades to be a little more exact.
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What can I say that I haven't elsewhere many times over? I forgot I even had an account here, so sorry for my absence. Eitherway, I'm equally shocked and appalled and was up at 2:30 am getting all my thoughts out there on the issue.
American Muslims need to be on this like white on rice to ensure we prevent incidents like this as much as possible from happening again. As Thor pointed out on my blog we need a new PR firm, moreso we need a better education mechanism. Granted, there isn't much one can do about someone leaving the country to learn hate (at least that proves that it isn't "homegrown") however, between the authorities and Muslims something has to be in place to accurately monitor and protect against those who go elsewhere in order to bring that evil back to their country of origin.
Now I'm not going to get into the blatant negativity or insults hurled at my religion in this thread and beyond as I expect that these days given the environment and the location of my commentary, but know that no matter how many times some non-Muslims and the terrorists want to call or state that my faith promotes violence, will make it anymore true. For every terrorist who claims to be a Muslim, there are are millions more who live in peace and coexist with non-Muslims here in America and the world over without incident and for centuries.
These two soldiers should be honored for their service and it's disturbing to hear nothing from senior officials in the DOD or Administration at this point. Who knows their reasoning behind being silent. If I took a stab at it, it may have to do with Obama's mideast trip not wanting to stir the pot anymore than it already is. Granted, as a black Muslim convert, I'm not that interested in another round of suspicious looks and comments, but at the same time, sweeping this incident under a rug, won't make it go away either.
My prayers and thoughts are with the victims families and our nation always.
:whatever: Oh goody
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American Muslims need to be on this like white on rice to ensure we prevent incidents like this as much as possible from happening again. As Thor pointed out on my blog we need a new PR firm, moreso we need a better education mechanism. Granted, there isn't much one can do about someone leaving the country to learn hate (at least that proves that it isn't "homegrown") however, between the authorities and Muslims something has to be in place to accurately monitor and protect against those who go elsewhere in order to bring that evil back to their country of origin.
Your "PR firm" in the U.S. is CAIR. And it's not doing you any justice. Until the majority of Muslims stand up and say "this is not us"...this group doesn't represent us...people will continue to have the wrong impression. Doug Hooper and his crew are mor worried about getting talk show hosts kicked off the air and silencing anyone that even gives a sideways glance at Islam more so than doing anything in the way of PR for the faith.
There has been plenty of times when terrorist cells have been busted in this country that a Muslim Representative in this country could have gone in front of the cameras and said "We denounce this...this is not us...we do not approve of these kids of plts...attacks etc in this country".
So far they've swallowed their tongues.
Now I'm not going to get into the blatant negativity or insults hurled at my religion in this thread and beyond as I expect that these days given the environment and the location of my commentary, but know that no matter how many times some non-Muslims and the terrorists want to call or state that my faith promotes violence, will make it anymore true. For every terrorist who claims to be a Muslim, there are are millions more who live in peace and coexist with non-Muslims here in America and the world over without incident and for centuries.
And yet it is because of their silence that this alleged "blatant negativity" is fostered and allowed to grow.
These two soldiers should be honored for their service and it's disturbing to hear nothing from senior officials in the DOD or Administration at this point. Who knows their reasoning behind being silent. If I took a stab at it, it may have to do with Obama's mideast trip not wanting to stir the pot anymore than it already is. Granted, as a black Muslim convert, I'm not that interested in another round of suspicious looks and comments, but at the same time, sweeping this incident under a rug, won't make it go away either.
What should they say? Why does someone from the DoD have to say anything about it? Again you're placing the burden on the wrong group to say or do anything.
It has nothing to do with Obama's mideast trip.
As someone up thread said..."Silence = Acceptance" until something is done by the Muslim community the alleged attitudes you say are prevelent in this thread will continue.
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Sarge, I'll have to defend Salaam to some extent. There ARE Islamic voices decrying radical Islam, but they are not being heard. Whose fault is that ?? I honestly don't know.
Otherwise, Sarge, (TxRadioGuy) you are correct. (Salaam's an former Marine Sergeant)
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Hi,
What a damn shame! This is gonna really give the left some problems. First the killer is black....so it was really the fault of the evil, rich greedy white man, the poor lad was misunderstood.
On the other hand he had an ASSUALT weapon. No kidding, isn't any weapon used to kill another an assualt weapon? The gun control folks should be on that like cops on doughnuts. And, God forbid, he had a blg SUV....
What a dilemma that puts them in because the left feels such empathy for the poor downtrodden minority trying to find their way.....but he did have an ASSUALT weapon and an SUV. So which way does the compliant media go on the matter? They have to wait until they get their talking points from the DNC before they take a stand on this one. I am sure if the guy got convicted and the case was appealed to the current supreme court nominee she would find some way to reduce his sentence like having to write "I was a bad boy" on the blackboard 100 times or something.
Personally, I do not think the government has to protect the recuriters at all, all the military has to do is make carrying a weapon part of their Uniform of the Day and they will do a fine job protecting themselves. Yeah, I am outraged and I agree with the poster that blames the left and their anti-military crap.
Why do I feel that if BO even issues a statement it will be something very bland.....
nite,
5412
She's probably just say he is absolved by the 'richness' of his cultural history as an African American male. :whatever:
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Sarge, I'll have to defend Salaam to some extent. There ARE Islamic voices decrying radical Islam, but they are not being heard. Whose fault is that ?? I honestly don't know.
Because they don't appeal to the media the way that Ibrahim (Doug) Hooper does with CAIR.
They want someone trashing us and our way of life (CAIR) rather than the alleged silent majority.
The MSM love to play up the "Great Satan" stereotype.
Otherwise, Sarge, (TxRadioGuy) you are correct. (Salaam's an former Marine Sergeant)
I know...I recognize him from milnet
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Sarge, I'll have to defend Salaam to some extent. There ARE Islamic voices decrying radical Islam, but they are not being heard. Whose fault is that ?? I honestly don't know.
Otherwise, Sarge, (TxRadioGuy) you are correct. (Salaam's an former Marine Sergeant)
I've been speaking to Muslims on another forum. They totally think violence in the name of Islam is an oxymoron. I know the majority of Muslims are not bad people.
While I do contribute what this guy did to radical Islam and the radical left, I can't help but notice he was ****ed up before his conversion.
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While I do contribute what this guy did to radical Islam and the radical left, I can't help but notice he was ****ed up before his conversion.
Most of us on this board realize that those on the left have been ****ed up for some time. :tongue:
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I've been speaking to Muslims on another forum. They totally think violence in the name of Islam is an oxymoron. I know the majority of Muslims are not bad people.
While I do contribute what this guy did to radical Islam and the radical left, I can't help but notice he was ****ed up before his conversion.
Perhaps Muslim clerics need to be a bit more selective about the people they recruit ??
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Perhaps Muslim clerics need to be a bit more selective about the people they recruit ??
I think they are being selective enough as it is...
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I've been speaking to Muslims on another forum. They totally think violence in the name of Islam is an oxymoron. I know the majority of Muslims are not bad people.
While I do contribute what this guy did to radical Islam and the radical left, I can't help but notice he was ****ed up before his conversion.
Gee.
I guess these Muslims have never read the Koran.
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What can I say that I haven't elsewhere many times over?
Now I'm not going to get into the blatant negativity or insults hurled at my religion in this thread and beyond as I expect that these days given the environment and the location of my commentary, but know that no matter how many times some non-Muslims and the terrorists want to call or state that my faith promotes violence, will make it anymore true.
Certainly, many have heard about the abortion doctor's murder by a Christianist, radical extremist Christian, Christian terrorist, etc. (don’t like when it’s your religion huh?) this weekend where an abortion doctor was killed in the church and a fellow Christian of the same sect murdered him because of differing ideologies.
"very religious in an Old Testament, eye-for-an-eye way," his former wife, Lindsey Roeder, told The Associated Press. (http://www.startribune.com/nation/46724837.html?page=2&c=y)
Point 1: Very religious in an Old Testament way is not Christian.
Point 2: Tiller, as an abortionist, was also not Christian.
Point 3: It CANNOT be truly said that the 9/11 perps were not Muslim. Neither can it truly be said that Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/06/02/No-bail-for-suspect-in-recruiter-killing/UPI-97771243966695/) is not Muslim.
Therefore, the insults to your religion have foundation, while your insults toward Christianity have none.
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Perhaps Muslim clerics need to be a bit more selective about the people they recruit ??
What should they do? Stay away from the prisons? Should Christians do the same? Jews? Maybe along with helping
people convert, converts in prison should have a menor.
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It seems to me that this is the fault of the anti-military left. You can't call military men "Baby-Killers" and blame recruiters for every military death for years without some lefty deciding to take the matter into his own hands. How many DUmp threads were there that condemned recruiters for talking "kids" into signing up and getting killed? How many DUmp threads called the recruiters "murderers?" How many leftist colleges have denied military recruiters permission to come on campus because they "promote violence?" How many Code Pink protesters have labeled the military and recruiters with the vilest of terms?
Make no mistake, this is absolutely the fault of the anti-military left. They all have blood on their hands. The Obama administration needs to provide federal protection for every military recruiter immediately...and needs to shut down these violent anti-military protesters that are trying to force their views on the entire country through savage acts.
(Did I pretty much copy the reaction to Tiller's death? Did I miss anything?)
Except that anyone that has been in longer then a few weeks should be able to put lead on target. They could defend themselves if the law would just get out of their way.
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Most of us on this board realize that those on the left have been ****ed up for some time. :tongue:
That will leave a mark.
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Except that anyone that has been in longer then a few weeks should be able to put lead on target. They could defend themselves if the law would just get out of their way.
I was in the navy for quite some time before ever handling a working firearm. Close to 2 years almost.
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Sounds like a terrorist attack to me.
Hi,
I do not totally agree with you. Terrorists target innocent civilians, women and children and want to do a tremendous amount of damage. This guy is not good enough to be a terrorist. First of all he attacked soldiers in uniform and second is he is a coward. He did not have the courage to strap a bomb to himself and take out a bunch of folks. I hope he gets convicted in court and is sent to prision and is not put in solitary......he won't last very long in a US prison no matter how much they say it is a great place for recruiting muslims.
regards,
5412
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Islam is a religion of violence. This fact is well-documented, beginning with the life of Mohammed himself. (See the books by Robert Spencer or Brigitte Gabriel.) True, not all Muslims are violent, but that just means they are living in a manner inconsistent with the basic tenents of their religion.
The best scenario: Muslims convert to Christianity.
The worst scenario: Muslims become radicalized, and live in accordance with Islam.
The most likely scenario: Muslims remain confused and inconsistent.
It would be nice if Americans would stop fantasizing about Islam. Islam is not simply another way for people to live in peace with one another. When we deal with the reality, we'll start to make some progress toward a solution to the problem. Until then, expect another 9/11, while our politicians utter nonsense.
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After Tiller was shot, Obama was quick to denounce the attack, after the soldier was killed, Obama was silent.
After Tiller was shot, Holder announced increased security for abortion clinics, after the soldier was killed, silence.
I guess we know where this administration's loyalties are.
Paladin0
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Source: More Targets Found on Arkansas Shooting Suspect's Computer
A senior U.S. official tells FOX News that more targets were found on the computer of a man charged in the fatal shooting at a military recruiting center in Arkansas — suggesting the accused gunman may have been part of a larger plot to attack military targets and may not have been acting alone.
Officers found maps to Jewish organizations, a Baptist church, a child care center, a post office and military recruiting centers in the southeastern U.S., New York and Philadelphia, according to a joint FBI-Homeland Security intelligence assessment obtained by The Associated Press.
After Monday's attack outside the Army-Navy Career Center in Little Rock, detectives searched a computer linked to suspect Abdulhakim Muhammad, and discovered research into multiple sites in different states, according to the memo.
Muhammad, 23, a Muslim convert who previously was known as Carlos Bledsoe, pleaded not guilty to capital murder in the deadly suburban shopping complex shooting.
Authorities said he targeted soldiers "because of what they had done to Muslims in the past."
Private William Long, 23, was killed and Private Quinton I. Ezeagwula, 18, was wounded. Both completed basic training within the past two weeks and had never seen combat. Ezeagwula was in stable condition at a hospital.
FNC (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,524833,00.html)
It will be interesting to learn if he had email contacts with anyone else about this.
Still no official word from 0Bama or his administration. The silence speaks volumes for where his sympathies lie.
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There are very spiritual sects of the Muslim Religion, and, frankly, seems to me that most Muslims would prefer to be left alone (woulden't everyone) to persue their lives free of terrorism. To do that, they need to ignore the violent sections of the Qur'an and embrace the "ALLAH loves you, go in peace" sections. Unfortunately for us all, we have the Wahhabists , the Twelvers, and others who demand that they be followed, and it is holy to impose Islam at gunpoint. Even more unfortunately, many of these islamofascists have access to HUGH quantities of MONEY. tHEY USE THAT MONEY TO GET RICH AND MAKE WAR on everyone who refuses to believe exactly as they do.
Unlike the Thugee, who the Brits killed off, this breed of terrorist has the money to be in the "protected" class of persons in the world. Even Arafat had his protectors on the world stage, and died with a personal wealth of , some sereously estimate, $1,000,000,000.
So the issue is not easily resolved simply by killing off the "bad guys", but the elimination of Wahhabi schools, killing the fanatics, and a co-operative integration of Islam and the modern world. Something no one reading this will live long enough to see realized.
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Until Muslims start getting rid of these terrorists in their midst, I for one believe they are all guilty! I assure you, if I knew of anyone planning violence on anyone, they would be reported or stopped one way or another. If Sarge really wants us to believe he is not part of this violence, why does he and the followers of peace, not rid those that commit this violence from their religion? All I hear is excuses, not solutions.
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yES, INDEED, what I said, but more to the point. The "mainstream" needs to get rid of the Radical, by whatever means necessary.
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QUERY: Will Pres Obama be directing strikes against the Yemeni camps that trained this shitbag? Green berets? A Predator? A bag of rabid squirrels? Anything?
I'm not asking for a long-term campaign and occupation just something to let them know their was was heard and we care enough to respond.
He has the authority from the 18 Sep 2001 AUMF. If this doesn't fit the bill for a terrorist act by a foreign power I don't know what does.
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He,Carter like, will do nothing of condequence.
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What's really insulting (no surprises) is the incoherence and illogical notions of some of these arguments. God knows I'm not in the mood for a several post debate (how many msgboards must I do it) but I have to take issue with at least a few "ideas" put out there about my religion:
1. Islam is violent because there are parts of the Qur'an that are "violent" or incidents committed in history that are "violent".
First of all, I would like those who share that opinion and quote the Robert Spencer's of the world (who seem to leave out other non-Muslim authors like Karen Armstrong) to list every chapter and verse of said "violent" verses. There are about 20 to 30, I know them by heart btw. Then I would like for you to not only explain why they are violent, but also why these 20-30 versus in your opinion summarizes the book outside of the other 6000 plus verses. Then after that, explain why don't you use the same standard to define other religious books and religions, because I can assure you that you will not find the equivalent of "you shall not leave alive anything that breathes" (Deutronomy 20:10-17) in the Qur'an. Then after that, because we all know that your line of defense will rest in arguments about context and the really knowledgeable in Christian Theology will use words like exegesis, please explain why it is wrong for Muslims to do the same with the Qur'an.
The truth is the numbers go against the arguments. There are more "peaceful" versus in the Qur'an than "violent" by a landslide, and their are hundreds of millions of Muslims more peaceful than violent (hell one sect Ahmaddiyah claims 300 million and their motto is "love for all hatred of none").
The real question is why do you embrace faulty logic? When has it ever been considered logical that anything less than 51% equals the majority? If you can't prove (and you can't) that more than 51% of the Qur'an or Muslims are violent, then by still saying that it/they are, is more of a personal opinion (for God only knows what reasons) and there is no empirical evidence to support your claim(s).
2. Silence=acceptance.
No disrespect but that is just a stupid concept. If that were true, does that mean that because there aren't massive protests in the streets against rape, murder, theft, etc. that Americans all agree with these things? How often is someone raped in America for instance? 76% of 300 Million Americans are Christian, should we state based on this conclusion that the majority of Christians in America agree with the level of violence in this country? What's good for the goose is also good for the gander.
3. Muslims need to speak out.
I have been down this road so many times before that it's driving me crazy! I'm completely convinced that most of those who are anti-Islam are just lying in the public to cover their private opinions. Just state matter of factly that you just hate Muslims plain and simple because they don't look, act, or believe like you. It's better than just making ludicrous statements that make you look simple.
It never ceases to amaze me how some of you can Google and find everything negative you need to find about Islam, yet somehow miss the multitude of statements, speeches, and facts that are out there? It's not that Muslims aren't doing it, it's that many aren't listening, promoting, and giving audience to. I have proven many times in the past that Muslim do in fact speak out. It's not our fault it's not covered on Fox News. Seriously, do you expect Fox News to air a peace rally by Muslims? Don't say yes, because 10K Muslims met in Harrisonburg, PA last year and we reached out to the press and was told by cable news outlets (yes one was Fox) that it was not "newsworthy". Every year in DC we don't a 9/11 interfaith peace rally, it's never covered either. Go to my site and/or blog and there are links to many statements, fatwas, etc. etc. past and present since 9/11 that are against terrorism, these statements are from almost every Islamic group under the sun as well as Islamic scholars, clerics, mufti's, heads of state, etc. etc.
If you truly wanted to see it, then call the executive producer of your favorite news source and ask them why they keep telling Muslim American groups that these things aren't "newsworthy".
Muslim Voices Against Extremism and Terrorism
http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslim_voices_against_extremism_and_terrorism_2/
Muslims against Terrorism
http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm
When I state that we need a new PR person, it's not because the work isn't being done, it's because we haven't done what is necessary to make these producers air our work. Many anti-Muslim types are too lazy to read, so they rely on cable news and a few websites from non and "former" Muslims for their source of information. Muslims need to do what Muslims like Mike Ghouse (http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/) is doing and challenge people on the foolishness that many of you recite like parrots. I for one will debate anyone, anywhere, on these issues.
Anyone can pick up a book extract a verse and give it their own opinion. It takes another person to actually study, read, and examine the entire book, in the original tongue, the history, etc. and understand what is being communicated.
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What's really insulting (no surprises) is the incoherence and illogical notions of some of these arguments.
So the best you can do is comback with your own "intolerace and illogical notions" of your own?
God knows I'm not in the mood for a several post debate
Then don't.
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Then after that, explain why don't you use the same standard to define other religious books and religions, because I can assure you that you will not find the equivalent of "you shall not leave alive anything that breathes" (Deutronomy 20:10-17) in the Qur'an.
I'm going to make the ASSumption that you have heard of Jesus, and possibly even heard of the New Testament. To make it REALLY simple, Christians are not Old Testament believers, they are followers of Christ. Quoting Deutronomy as though it contained commands for Christians to be violent is an ignorant-leftist trick. If you have no more knowledge of Christianity than you've demonstrated so far, before you try to have a debate, you need to go learn some of the basics of Christianity.
Here's a helpful hint: you can't learn anything correct on any leftist anti-Christian site.
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Salaam, I gave you credit earlier for denouncing the actions of the individual. As we go forward in this, it is becoming more and more apparent that you are more concerned about the PR for the Muslim community than the fact that an American Soldier was killed by a man who was a recent convert to your religion. He had traveled to Yemen with a Somali passport, actively seeking a terror training camp. (How he got back in is left open to conjecture, but I'm betting through Mexico) He was under investigation by the FBI. His computers were found to have files with information concerning other attacks on military facilities.
Save your PR :bs: for someone who doesn't see it for what it is. If you want to change the image of the Muslim community, start with yourself. Be less concerned with what's right for you and yours and more concerned with what's right for the world.
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The religion has a history of conquest and sword point conversion demands. Something given up by Christian Fanatics several hundred years ago. However, those radical islamofascists still demand obedience to Islam or persecution, slavery or death.
Islam has nutbars out there , like this ass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT-jOywdcOk
Until Islam puts these bozos out of business , stops persicuting other religions, stops rape and murder, the religion will be seen by non-Muslins as violent , intollerant and bad neighbors.
This problem is one only Muslims can possibly resolve.
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Salaam........
watch THIS (http://www.truthtube.tv/play.php?vid=522) video and tell me again that Muslims aren't violent!!
WARNING: VIDEO CONTAINS GRAPHIC IMAGES!!!! Do not watch if you have a weak stomach!! You have been warned!!
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1. Islam is violent because there are parts of the Qur'an that are "violent" or incidents committed in history that are "violent".
Islam is not violent simply because the Qur'an contains some violent passages. Islam is violent because the Qur'an and the hadith prescribe violence as a standard of behavior toward "infidels." (For some reason, Salaam did not mention the hadith in his rebutal.)
Again, please remember the life of the prophet Mohammed. He practiced violence against Jews and Christians, and taught his followers to do the same. Muslims have never renounced this history, and they never will, unless they cease to be Muslims.
We were not discussing Christianity. We were discussing Islam. To say, "Well, Christianity is violent too" is exceedingly silly. If anyone wants to discuss Christianity, that's fine, but why confuse the issue in the meantime?
Maybe Salaam should write fewer posts, and take the time to read the ones available to him.
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2. Silence=acceptance.
No disrespect but that is just a stupid concept. If that were true, does that mean that because there aren't massive protests in the streets against rape, murder, theft, etc. that Americans all agree with these things? How often is someone raped in America for instance? 76% of 300 Million Americans are Christian, should we state based on this conclusion that the majority of Christians in America agree with the level of violence in this country? What's good for the goose is also good for the gander.
Boy, was that a bad analogy.
We pursue rapists and murderers with the full power of the state.
If the vast majority of muslims are not in accord with radical islam (polls notwithstanding) then rise against the vast minority. Are 1.7 billion people really so weak as to allow themselves to be molded by what is supposedly a mere tens of thousands? As an added bonus: the US is happy to help and it will ask nothing in return...except maybe quit treating non-muslims and women like crap.
Consider this: if these mere tens of thousands ever get their hands on a WMD through someplace like--say Iran, Syria or a cash-strapped North Korea--and manage to sneak past someone like--say the ever-vigilant Obama--then tens of millions will perish as we retaliate for the acts of tens of thousands. Simple, self-interested preservation should serve as an adequate motivator.
Web links, nice though they may be, are not enough. Close the hate-preaching mosques. Shutdown the Hamas TV stations that teach children to be genocidal nutbags. Put an end to Hezbollah. Push abck against the Holocaust deniers. Disown the Arafats of the world.
If David Duke was the voice of US race-relations you might have a point. Yet, when I look at the mid-east I see people deferring to Abbas as the voice of "Palestinians" (a fabricated polity itself). Abbas was the chosen successor of Yassar Arafat who was chin-deep with the Nai collaborating mufti of Jerusalem al-Husseini. Where is the rejection of this legacy?
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http://bluecollarrepublican.com/blog/
Some more digging into the killer nd his connection in the US. After the latest press release by the White House, I doubt the DOJ will do any investigation into the facts.
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Salaam........
watch THIS (http://www.truthtube.tv/play.php?vid=522) video and tell me again that Muslims aren't violent!!
WARNING: VIDEO CONTAINS GRAPHIC IMAGES!!!! Do not watch if you have a weak stomach!! You have been warned!!
How many wars/conflicts going on right now do not involve Muslims as aggressors? How many Islamic countries treat their women and minorities in barbaric manners?
Albania? You will notice they are 'caucasian' Muslims, not that it means anything, just interesting. The worse countries seem to get way too much sun, is that a coincidence? Islam+120 degrees= terrorist??
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It comes to light that the White House has NOT released a statement on the murder of PVT Long and the wounding of another US Army Soldier in Little Rock. The earlier statement was release to the Arkansas Press, by 'Someone' in the WH. There is no mention of the Statement on the White House web-page, and Barry hasn't said a word about it.
I am asking everyone to send a message to the White House about this.
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To make it REALLY simple, Christians are not Old Testament believers, they are followers of Christ.
I don't think I'm the one who needs to learn about Christianity. Christians theologically speaking of course, believe that they are under a new covenant (see Grace) and therefore, don't have to abide by all the laws and dictates of the OT such as those found in Deuteronomy/Leviticus, HOWEVER, Christians do believe in the OT as revealed by God and believe that the OT foretells the coming of Jesus (as). Are you telling me Christians don't believe in Psalms, Proverbs, etc. etc. etc.? I could teach you a thing or two about Christianity and the theology thereof if you want, I did it for the majority of my life. :) I just believe "differently" now on some key points! :)
The point was not about Christianity which many of you got your undies in a bunch so quickly and never even read what I wrote. My point was about textual criticism and how one uses it to define a religion. Now I used Deuteronomy, because that was one of the most extreme verses off the top of my head, but if I had to go to the NT if it would make some feel better and make it harder to just dismiss a point by throwing out half of the Bible instead of actually trying to see a point I could go to Jesus (as) calling the Samaritan woman a dog, or stating that he didn't come to bring peace but a sword, or when Jesus (as) said "those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me" etc. etc. If you want Biblical references I can provide them. The point is not that these things exist in the Bible whether OT or NT, the point is,
How are they used, translated, understood, and by whom?
I would be laughed out a seminary, Christian theology, etc. class if I cited those versus (and many more) as evidence that Christianity or Judaism promotes violence no matter how many historical, present, etc. examples I can point to of actual Christians using those versus to commit violence. I would be told about exegesis. I would be told about context, I would be told to look to scholarly and doctrinal renderings to understand the spirit of the text. Do you know that I once had to write a 10 page paper on one "lost" parable from the synoptics! It's not that hard by the way, but the point is, what is barely 3 lines in the Bible can take 10 pages to explain.
My point in all that is, why should any logical thinking person believe that the same isn't true for any other religious text?
Have any of you taken any religion courses? Have you ever had to write about Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, etc.? Have you ever had to actually research a religion including your own? What you will find out is you can't sum up an entire religion in soundbites nor by the images flashed before you on TV.
Hell, you can't even fully understand Christianity unless you learn about Greek, Latin, Hebrew, and maybe Aramaic!
So how can you expect to read something on a net, from a site with a stated agenda against Islam, that's in English, when everyone on the planet knows by now, that no Muslim regards any translation as the actual Qur'an and the you must learn Arabic to even get close to understanding it? Did anyone know how many different dialects of Arabic there are?
As I said, my point is, talking points are cute, but the reality is when it comes to Islam, if it doesn't come from scholarly sources, commentaries (tafsir), fatwa's, or statements from Islamic institutions, then it most likely is not true.
Now I would like for one of you to find a Fatwa from an accepted Sunni (largest sect) institution that states anything remotely close to terrorism is OK! You won't find one, because it's already been ruled upon as Haram, because, suicide, the killing of innocents, the killing of POW's, fighting offensively, etc. are all Haram, The Grand Mufti of Mecca went as far to state that terrorists will go straight to the hellfire and any who agree with them. There's a whole section on fatwa.com
So you guys can "talk" about Islam, that's easy when you have no personal experience with it, but I live it everyday and I don't raise my children to be anything other than patriotic American citizens who (God-willing) will join the Corps and help kill the terrorists.
Moving right along...
Islam is violent because the Qur'an and the hadith prescribe violence as a standard of behavior toward "infidels." (For some reason, Salaam did not mention the hadith in his rebutal.)
Again, please remember the life of the prophet Mohammed. He practiced violence against Jews and Christians, and taught his followers to do the same. Muslims have never renounced this history, and they never will, unless they cease to be Muslims.
Again I refer to the above mentioned comments.
A: Show me these verses, I guarantee you can't point to more than 30.
If you did I will ask you very simple questions:
- Why are you ignoring the other several thousand verses in the Qur'an?
- Did you read the verses before and after (i.e. context) for example, one of the oft-repeated verses by non-Muslims making a "point" is the "slay them wherever you find them..." verse 2:191, but never, never, ever, have I seen a non-Muslim on any of those "sites" or those who continually bring verses up like this quote the entire verse or the verses before or after that plainly state that fighting is only against oppression (see self defense) and if the enemy makes peace or offers peace that you are required to accept it!
- What translation did you use? Often another mistake non-Muslims make, translations in of themselves are not accepted by Muslims, an actual Qur'an if it includes a translation MUST have the original Arabic in it to be considered a Qu'ran. By naming the translator, your naming the source of your scholarship, because the translators tend to have notes and commentaries that explain why they translated some things the way they did, because believe it or not, Arabic doesn't always translate well into English! Which is the case with most Semitic languages, so those who happen to think the KJV is the best translation out there, might want to reconsider that notion....
Now as far as the Hadith and why I haven't mentioned them and hardly ever do from my record, is that it's pretty simple. Non-Muslims especially the anti-kind, try to dumb down my religion in the most simplest terms they can in order to state negative and false thing about it. To study Islam actually study Islam is very exhaustive and not something you can just pick up from reading a website or a couple of books. Qur'an and Ahadith are exhaustive studies in of themself and then on top of that you have the whole learning Arabic thing.
But to put it mildly, Muslims believe that only the Qur'an is Holy and the word of God and the Hadith are man-made, therefore we believe that the Hadith can have error whereas the Qur'an cannot. That is why Hadith have a whole science to them where we track down the source, origin, authenticity, etc. etc. etc.
Blindly quoting a Hadith will make one look like an idiot to the average Muslim if you can't quote from what school did it come, what chain of narration, etc. etc. etc. So as a matter of practice and experience I only debate the deep Islamic issues with Muslims as I find that many non-Muslims don't really care to know about Islam, they are just picking at the surface looking for something they won't ever research, but seems like a "gotcha" item to quote and make themselves feel knowledgeable.
Just like you can't just pick up a Bible and go preach and teach Christianity (well you shouldn't anyway), don't think you can just pick a verse or two out the Qu'ran or quote a Hadith out of tens of thousands, and consider yourself an expert on Islam. Unless your a Hafiz or scholar of Tafsir, and especially if your not even a Muslim, it's pretty arrogant to think you know as much as many claim to know about Islam. Many of these words I just typed some of you probably never heard of before. And I didn't even get into important topics like maghdab, qiyas, etc. terms that one has to know before seriously discussing Islam, and I bet you the majority of your sources never heard those terms either, which is why they won't ever get caught debating Muslim scholars and teachers, because they would be found out to their audience many like yourselves who help raise them money by paying to hear them speak, buying their books, going to their sites etc. Ask them why they won't do it if they really know the "truth" about Islam? The smart ones among them know that it's exhaustive and they aren't interested in scholarly stuff in the first place, they know their audience is of a certain demographic and only want the type of stuff that's easy to read, doesn't need any explaining, and can easily back up their emotional feelings about dem Muzzies.
The only thing that will ever be true and something that I will readily agree with any of you on is that there are a bunch of "Muslims" (I wouldn't call them that hence the quotes) who are terrorists. These killers don't care about non-Muslims or Muslims for that matter, they will kill any and all who don't comply with their goals. They must be stopped by any means necessary.
What many of you don't get (apparently) is just like you, they pick and choose versus to justify their agenda which Islamically speaking is incorrect and why Obama rightfully so and to standing applause quoted the Qur'an correctly and mentioned a verse that somehow anti-non Muslims and terrorists miss in their reading of the Qur'an, which states that the killing of one innocent life is like the killing of all mankind, but the saving of one life is like the saving of all mankind.
Lastly, what to do about it (terrorism). If many of you think for one minute that you sound realistic by stating that every Muslim the world over should quit their jobs and leave their homes and go seek out terrorists around the globe, I know you have been smoking crack. You know damn well, that none of you would ever ask any group of people to ever do that before. I'm convinced the bar is only raised so high from some of you is because you know it's impossible, therefore you will always have a "gotcha" comment. It's to keep you busy and others in business.
Now what is realistic is taking charge of my post and observing all things within sight or hearing. So what we Muslims in America are doing (I'm an American, not Saudi, Iraqi, etc.) is ensuring that Muslims here are being vigilant in our posts (Mosques, schools, homes, etc.) and working with law enforcement to ensure potential threats from radicals are dealt with as well as educating our youth against radical ideologies. Now if we should be doing something else please let us know, because even when we denounce stuff, we are told we are not denouncing. The funny thing is most of the denouncing is about incidents that rarely occur in the US!
I often see some of you write "well Christians would..." that's a lie and you know it, when that idiot at VA Tech went and killed the students and the videos were found with him talking about how he was doing it for Jesus (as) etc. was there any marches? Denunciations? Did Christians around the world get involved? NO, what about the Phelps crowd? These requests of mass denunciations are only asked of Muslims and the greatest irony of it all is the main ones who keep talking about what Muslims need to do, are the LEAST likely to be victims of terrorism!
The most likely to be killed by a terrorist is a Muslim hands down! All of you on this site and others acting as if you face an imminent threat at your local Walmart from a terrorist attack, talking about how evil Islam is, will most likely never actually have to deal with your market, Mosque, school, etc. being blown up by terrorists. How many of your women actually have to worry about getting raped while going to get water or go to a market?
That's the main reason I scoff so often at these right-wing commentaries, because the number one victims are Muslims yet your all scarred and paranoid like you have this is your reality.
So the funny thing is you want the raped Darfari women to prove that her religion isn't violent, you want the Muslims whose Mosque got blown up while they were praying to apologize, you want us to "prove" something to you? For what? So you can sit on your safe couches, watch your cable news, and feel a little better about yourself?
Newsflash, the Muslims who are actually facing the slaughter of terrorists and don't have the luxury of being armchair quarterbacks, actually believe in their religion and they know unlike you that terrorists are about as Muslim as you guys are!
If you actually care, tell your representatives in Congress to shape foreign policy that doesn't support dictators, that won't talk to the Saudi's you know the ones who lashed a 75 year old woman? Ask them to support the AU and help them get a mandate to do more than just observe people getting raped in Darfur, actually help empower Muslims to be able to speak up and fight, instead of helping validate the rule of many Middle Eastern tyrants.
Other than that, you can continue doing what your doing and criticize on the sidelines, while people actual work to educate and support initiatives at the grassroots that will hopefully see change in many of these countries and communities.
In other words, what have you done other than complain about the boogeyman?
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I don't think I'm the one who needs to learn about Christianity. Christians theologically speaking of course, believe that they are under a new covenant (see Grace) and therefore, don't have to abide by all the laws and dictates of the OT such as those found in Deuteronomy/Leviticus, HOWEVER, Christians do believe in the OT as revealed by God and believe that the OT foretells the coming of Jesus (as). Are you telling me Christians don't believe in Psalms, Proverbs, etc. etc. etc.? I could teach you a thing or two about Christianity and the theology thereof if you want, I did it for the majority of my life. :) I just believe "differently" now on some key points! :)
The point was not about Christianity which many of you got your undies in a bunch so quickly and never even read what I wrote. My point was about textual criticism and how one uses it to define a religion. Now I used Deuteronomy, because that was one of the most extreme verses off the top of my head, but if I had to go to the NT if it would make some feel better and make it harder to just dismiss a point by throwing out half of the Bible instead of actually trying to see a point I could go to Jesus (as) calling the Samaritan woman a dog, or stating that he didn't come to bring peace but a sword, or when Jesus (as) said "those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me" etc. etc. If you want Biblical references I can provide them. The point is not that these things exist in the Bible whether OT or NT, the point is,
How are they used, translated, understood, and by whom?
I would be laughed out a seminary, Christian theology, etc. class if I cited those versus (and many more) as evidence that Christianity or Judaism promotes violence no matter how many historical, present, etc. examples I can point to of actual Christians using those versus to commit violence. I would be told about exegesis. I would be told about context, I would be told to look to scholarly and doctrinal renderings to understand the spirit of the text. Do you know that I once had to write a 10 page paper on one "lost" parable from the synoptics! It's not that hard by the way, but the point is, what is barely 3 lines in the Bible can take 10 pages to explain.
My point, "Quoting Deutronomy as though it contained commands for Christians to be violent is an ignorant-leftist trick." Evidently, your comprehension skills leave much to be desired. ::) You used Deutronomy because so many people are ignorant enough to fall for the "christians are commanded to..." crap. Jesus did not call the Samaritan woman a dog, He merely implied it...and SHE took no offense. Of course, it had nothing to do with violence, exactly as the sword comment. The "sword" of God is His word, not a physical weapon. As for "when Jesus (as) said "those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me," yeah, you'd better provide a Scriptural reference. ::)
As far as "actual" Christians using any biblical verses to commit violence, the "actual" part is always in question when Scripture is mis-used...which is one of the reasons YOU are being questioned.
My point in all that is, why should any logical thinking person believe that the same isn't true for any other religious text?
Well...it could be based on the actual events in the world today. duh! ::) ::)
Have any of you taken any religion courses? Have you ever had to write about Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, etc.? Have you ever had to actually research a religion including your own? What you will find out is you can't sum up an entire religion in soundbites nor by the images flashed before you on TV.
More than you've taken, evidently. ::)
Hell, you can't even fully understand Christianity unless you learn about Greek, Latin, Hebrew, and maybe Aramaic!
So how can you expect to read something on a net, from a site with a stated agenda against Islam, that's in English, when everyone on the planet knows by now, that no Muslim regards any translation as the actual Qur'an and the you must learn Arabic to even get close to understanding it? Did anyone know how many different dialects of Arabic there are?
As I said, my point is, talking points are cute, but the reality is when it comes to Islam, if it doesn't come from scholarly sources, commentaries (tafsir), fatwa's, or statements from Islamic institutions, then it most likely is not true.
Now I would like for one of you to find a Fatwa from an accepted Sunni (largest sect) institution that states anything remotely close to terrorism is OK! You won't find one, because it's already been ruled upon as Haram, because, suicide, the killing of innocents, the killing of POW's, fighting offensively, etc. are all Haram, The Grand Mufti of Mecca went as far to state that terrorists will go straight to the hellfire and any who agree with them. There's a whole section on fatwa.com
So you guys can "talk" about Islam, that's easy when you have no personal experience with it, but I live it everyday and I don't raise my children to be anything other than patriotic American citizens who (God-willing) will join the Corps and help kill the terrorists.
Now...exactly WHERE are all those Muslims that are condemning the terrorism, the training camps, the murder of innocents? When an abortion doctor was killed, the REAL pro-life groups immediately condemned the murder...yet when thousands upon thousands of innocent people...Christians, Muslims, Buddhists...are slaughtered by those that read the Quran, study the Quran, teach the Quran and claim to believe in the Quran...all those "peaceful" Muslims say NOTHING. ::)
Moving right along...
Again I refer to the above mentioned comments.
A: Show me these verses, I guarantee you can't point to more than 30.
If you did I will ask you very simple questions:
- Why are you ignoring the other several thousand verses in the Qur'an?
- Did you read the verses before and after (i.e. context) for example, one of the oft-repeated verses by non-Muslims making a "point" is the "slay them wherever you find them..." verse 2:191, but never, never, ever, have I seen a non-Muslim on any of those "sites" or those who continually bring verses up like this quote the entire verse or the verses before or after that plainly state that fighting is only against oppression (see self defense) and if the enemy makes peace or offers peace that you are required to accept it!
It certainly seems as though many, many Muslims have never read that verse, huh?
- What translation did you use? Often another mistake non-Muslims make, translations in of themselves are not accepted by Muslims, an actual Qur'an if it includes a translation MUST have the original Arabic in it to be considered a Qu'ran. By naming the translator, your naming the source of your scholarship, because the translators tend to have notes and commentaries that explain why they translated some things the way they did, because believe it or not, Arabic doesn't always translate well into English! Which is the case with most Semitic languages, so those who happen to think the KJV is the best translation out there, might want to reconsider that notion....
Now as far as the Hadith and why I haven't mentioned them and hardly ever do from my record, is that it's pretty simple. Non-Muslims especially the anti-kind, try to dumb down my religion in the most simplest terms they can in order to state negative and false thing about it. To study Islam actually study Islam is very exhaustive and not something you can just pick up from reading a website or a couple of books. Qur'an and Ahadith are exhaustive studies in of themself and then on top of that you have the whole learning Arabic thing.
But to put it mildly, Muslims believe that only the Qur'an is Holy and the word of God and the Hadith are man-made, therefore we believe that the Hadith can have error whereas the Qur'an cannot. That is why Hadith have a whole science to them where we track down the source, origin, authenticity, etc. etc. etc.
Blindly quoting a Hadith will make one look like an idiot to the average Muslim if you can't quote from what school did it come, what chain of narration, etc. etc. etc. So as a matter of practice and experience I only debate the deep Islamic issues with Muslims as I find that many non-Muslims don't really care to know about Islam, they are just picking at the surface looking for something they won't ever research, but seems like a "gotcha" item to quote and make themselves feel knowledgeable.
Just like you can't just pick up a Bible and go preach and teach Christianity (well you shouldn't anyway), don't think you can just pick a verse or two out the Qu'ran or quote a Hadith out of tens of thousands, and consider yourself an expert on Islam. Unless your a Hafiz or scholar of Tafsir, and especially if your not even a Muslim, it's pretty arrogant to think you know as much as many claim to know about Islam. Many of these words I just typed some of you probably never heard of before. And I didn't even get into important topics like maghdab, qiyas, etc. terms that one has to know before seriously discussing Islam, and I bet you the majority of your sources never heard those terms either, which is why they won't ever get caught debating Muslim scholars and teachers, because they would be found out to their audience many like yourselves who help raise them money by paying to hear them speak, buying their books, going to their sites etc. Ask them why they won't do it if they really know the "truth" about Islam? The smart ones among them know that it's exhaustive and they aren't interested in scholarly stuff in the first place, they know their audience is of a certain demographic and only want the type of stuff that's easy to read, doesn't need any explaining, and can easily back up their emotional feelings about dem Muzzies.
The only thing that will ever be true and something that I will readily agree with any of you on is that there are a bunch of "Muslims" (I wouldn't call them that hence the quotes) who are terrorists. These killers don't care about non-Muslims or Muslims for that matter, they will kill any and all who don't comply with their goals. They must be stopped by any means necessary.
What many of you don't get (apparently) is just like you, they pick and choose versus to justify their agenda which Islamically speaking is incorrect and why Obama rightfully so and to standing applause quoted the Qur'an correctly and mentioned a verse that somehow anti-non Muslims and terrorists miss in their reading of the Qur'an, which states that the killing of one innocent life is like the killing of all mankind, but the saving of one life is like the saving of all mankind.
Lastly, what to do about it (terrorism). If many of you think for one minute that you sound realistic by stating that every Muslim the world over should quit their jobs and leave their homes and go seek out terrorists around the globe, I know you have been smoking crack. You know damn well, that none of you would ever ask any group of people to ever do that before. I'm convinced the bar is only raised so high from some of you is because you know it's impossible, therefore you will always have a "gotcha" comment. It's to keep you busy and others in business.
Now what is realistic is taking charge of my post and observing all things within sight or hearing. So what we Muslims in America are doing (I'm an American, not Saudi, Iraqi, etc.) is ensuring that Muslims here are being vigilant in our posts (Mosques, schools, homes, etc.) and working with law enforcement to ensure potential threats from radicals are dealt with as well as educating our youth against radical ideologies. Now if we should be doing something else please let us know, because even when we denounce stuff, we are told we are not denouncing. The funny thing is most of the denouncing is about incidents that rarely occur in the US!
I often see some of you write "well Christians would..." that's a lie and you know it, when that idiot at VA Tech went and killed the students and the videos were found with him talking about how he was doing it for Jesus (as) etc. was there any marches? Denunciations? Did Christians around the world get involved? NO, what about the Phelps crowd?
Blah, blah, blah...and yes, Christians did denounce the SINGLE student who shot others (though he wasn't any more a Christian than Phelps- who is just a more-deranged-than-most Democrat) ::)
These requests of mass denunciations are only asked of Muslims and the greatest irony of it all is the main ones who keep talking about what Muslims need to do, are the LEAST likely to be victims of terrorism!
The most likely to be killed by a terrorist is a Muslim hands down! All of you on this site and others acting as if you face an imminent threat at your local Walmart from a terrorist attack, talking about how evil Islam is, will most likely never actually have to deal with your market, Mosque, school, etc. being blown up by terrorists. How many of your women actually have to worry about getting raped while going to get water or go to a market?
Yep, you belong to a relgion that even kills it's own. Congrats. ::)
That's the main reason I scoff so often at these right-wing commentaries, because the number one victims are Muslims yet your all scarred and paranoid like you have this is your reality.
So the funny thing is you want the raped Darfari women to prove that her religion isn't violent, you want the Muslims whose Mosque got blown up while they were praying to apologize, you want us to "prove" something to you? For what? So you can sit on your safe couches, watch your cable news, and feel a little better about yourself?
Newsflash, the Muslims who are actually facing the slaughter of terrorists and don't have the luxury of being armchair quarterbacks, actually believe in their religion and they know unlike you that terrorists are about as Muslim as you guys are!
I take it you "haven't noticed" the slaughter of Christians by Muslims in many countries, huh? Yep, you're a bright one. ::)
If you actually care, tell your representatives in Congress to shape foreign policy that doesn't support dictators, that won't talk to the Saudi's you know the ones who lashed a 75 year old woman? Ask them to support the AU and help them get a mandate to do more than just observe people getting raped in Darfur, actually help empower Muslims to be able to speak up and fight, instead of helping validate the rule of many Middle Eastern tyrants.
Other than that, you can continue doing what your doing and criticize on the sidelines, while people actual work to educate and support initiatives at the grassroots that will hopefully see change in many of these countries and communities.
In other words, what have you done other than complain about the boogeyman?
Raised my kids in the one true religion...the one that uses words as a "sword" and prays for it's enemies.
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Sgt, Call it a day. As we debated over a year ago , you are rationalizing the behavior of islamofascists. You know that these persons who engege in this continuing war with western civilization consider YOU the apostate because YOU are not engaged in the "struggle" by their sides. They will gladly quote the Qur'an's passage, context and all as THEY see it as they kill you.
Rationalization will never solve the problem, only Muslims willing to stand up, eyeball to eyeball, sword to sword to these islamofascists can solve the problem. The very sad truth is that among those who can wage war with the west, almost half agree with the fascists. That the 98% who don't agree are completely inneffective at stopping the violence is irrefutable evidence.
And stop the nonsence, unless we can read the original text spohistry, it is piffle. If you cannot hear the words as spoken, directly, in situ, you cannot understand Islam!
That makes as much sense as your declaritory judgement.
Please, you are not helping Islam. You are convincing many who read your words that Muslims are arrogant and intollerant with your adhominum attacks on Christians.
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All it took me was one combat tour in Iraq to see that Sgt. Salaam is doing nothing but blowing smoke up our collective arse.
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you are rationalizing the behavior of islamofascists.
Proof? I know that it's hard to post facts sometimes, but point to anywhere on anyplace on the net, where I have called terrorists anything other than murdering pond scum and/or afterbirth.
That the 98% who don't agree are completely inneffective at stopping the violence is irrefutable evidence.
Obviously, who's debating that point? Have you read my writings before? Or do you think your "educating" me on the "reality", the mere fact that I feel compelled to respond to anything at all, bears witness to that.
But that isn't the debate is it? It's not are "we" ineffective, but the debate was, are we doing anything at all? I'm saying we are, you guys are saying not only aren't we, but we also agree with the terrorists.
Now if you guys just said, well your doing something, but it ain't working, I would have kept my soupcoolers shut, because I state that almost every other week on my blog.
And stop the nonsence, unless we can read the original text spohistry, it is piffle.
Is it really? Are you telling me that anyone can pick up any book translated from another language and completely understand it? Come on Peter, I know your dumbing it down for the audience, but you know volumes more than this.
If you cannot hear the words as spoken, directly, in situ, you cannot understand Islam!
That makes as much sense as your declaritory judgement.
Well I didn't exactly write the word "hear", but just because it doesn't apply to your religion, that has nothing to do with mine. Everyone should know by now that all Muslims are required to at a minimum be able to pray in Arabic. The reason is so that we can fully understand Islam, because you can't fully understand it in other languages!!!!! That's our belief, it doesn't have to make sense to you, but it does to us, which is why no matter what you state, it won't change the fact that Muslims read and understand the Qur'an and Islam in Arabic, anything else is nothing more than an attempt at understanding the original, i.e. a translation.
Please, you are not helping Islam. You are convincing many who read your words that Muslims are arrogant and intollerant with your adhominum attacks on Christians.
Islam doesn't need help.
As far as "arrogant" did you read the post before yours?
And as far as "ad hominem" if you looked up the definition of that fallacy, you would know that explains exactly what many of you are doing, not what I'm doing.
I'm presenting clear facts and statements, mainly based in epistemology, and you guys are throwing "red herrings" all over the place, case in point:
My point, "Quoting Deutronomy as though it contained commands for Christians to be violent is an ignorant-leftist trick." Evidently, your comprehension skills leave much to be desired. Roll Eyes You used Deutronomy because so many people are ignorant enough to fall for the "christians are commanded to..." crap. Jesus did not call the Samaritan woman a dog, He merely implied it...and SHE took no offense. Of course, it had nothing to do with violence, exactly as the sword comment. The "sword" of God is His word, not a physical weapon. As for "when Jesus (as) said "those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me," yeah, you'd better provide a Scriptural reference. Roll Eyes
As far as "actual" Christians using any biblical verses to commit violence, the "actual" part is always in question when Scripture is mis-used...which is one of the reasons YOU are being questioned.
Now this is an example of a person who couldn't have paid attention and read what I wrote.
I completely dismissed my own arguments and verses I posted as examples of how not to read the Bible. My only point was to illustrate that what idiots do with the Bible, idiots do with the Qur'an, i.e. pick and choose a verse and misquote, mistranslate, and misuse.
And what did she do? Repeat exactly what I stated, but didn't even realize it, because she was too busy rolling eyes and making up her mind about what she thought I meant than actually reading it.
She called it a leftist-trick, because obviously if I disagree, I must be a leftist huh? Far from it, but like I said, this is what happens when people start thinking for you rather than actually reading, because being dismissive (see arrogant) is easier than actually responding to a point.
How else could you say the same exact thing when replying?
I never said Christians are commanded to do anything, I stated that ignorant people could use the Bible to claim that!
I know, I know, maybe I write too much or use too many fancy words.
I forgot it's easier to just call people names, hit smileys, or make statements about a person's character without an once of fact.
I'll challenge any on here who actually has the integrity.
Google Robert Salaam, and show me where I have ever stated anywhere, that terrorists are not murdering bastards who should be killed, and that Muslims don't need to clean house by any means necessary.
If you can't prove by my own words written or spoken on air that I have ever expressed these things, then man up and apologize, because my record is consistent:
1. Terrorism, radicalism, extremism, is evil
2. Muslims are ultimately responsible to destroy it and we have to do more
The only time I even address non-Muslims regarding Islam is when you say stupid stuff that normally begins with "All Muslims...." or "Islam is a ...(nothing nice)...religion"
Imagine, grown adults who still talk and believe in infinite like "All...(group)" wow! just wow!
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Proof? I know that it's hard to post facts sometimes, but point to anywhere on anyplace on the net, where I have called terrorists anything other than murdering pond scum and/or afterbirth.
Obviously, who's debating that point? Have you read my writings before? Or do you think your "educating" me on the "reality", the mere fact that I feel compelled to respond to anything at all, bears witness to that.
But that isn't the debate is it? It's not are "we" ineffective, but the debate was, are we doing anything at all? I'm saying we are, you guys are saying not only aren't we, but we also agree with the terrorists.
Now if you guys just said, well your doing something, but it ain't working, I would have kept my soupcoolers shut, because I state that almost every other week on my blog.
Is it really? Are you telling me that anyone can pick up any book translated from another language and completely understand it? Come on Peter, I know your dumbing it down for the audience, but you know volumes more than this.
Well I didn't exactly write the word "hear", but just because it doesn't apply to your religion, that has nothing to do with mine. Everyone should know by now that all Muslims are required to at a minimum be able to pray in Arabic. The reason is so that we can fully understand Islam, because you can't fully understand it in other languages!!!!! That's our belief, it doesn't have to make sense to you, but it does to us, which is why no matter what you state, it won't change the fact that Muslims read and understand the Qur'an and Islam in Arabic, anything else is nothing more than an attempt at understanding the original, i.e. a translation.
Islam doesn't need help.
As far as "arrogant" did you read the post before yours?
And as far as "ad hominem" if you looked up the definition of that fallacy, you would know that explains exactly what many of you are doing, not what I'm doing.
I'm presenting clear facts and statements, mainly based in epistemology, and you guys are throwing "red herrings" all over the place, case in point:
Now this is an example of a person who couldn't have paid attention and read what I wrote.
I completely dismissed my own arguments and verses I posted as examples of how not to read the Bible. My only point was to illustrate that what idiots do with the Bible, idiots do with the Qur'an, i.e. pick and choose a verse and misquote, mistranslate, and misuse.
And what did she do? Repeat exactly what I stated, but didn't even realize it, because she was too busy rolling eyes and making up her mind about what she thought I meant than actually reading it.
She called it a leftist-trick, because obviously if I disagree, I must be a leftist huh? Far from it, but like I said, this is what happens when people start thinking for you rather than actually reading, because being dismissive (see arrogant) is easier than actually responding to a point.
How else could you say the same exact thing when replying?
I never said Christians are commanded to do anything, I stated that ignorant people could use the Bible to claim that!
I know, I know, maybe I write too much or use too many fancy words.
I forgot it's easier to just call people names, hit smileys, or make statements about a person's character without an once of fact.
I'll challenge any on here who actually has the integrity.
Google Robert Salaam, and show me where I have ever stated anywhere, that terrorists are not murdering bastards who should be killed, and that Muslims don't need to clean house by any means necessary.
If you can't prove by my own words written or spoken on air that I have ever expressed these things, then man up and apologize, because my record is consistent:
1. Terrorism, radicalism, extremism, is evil
2. Muslims are ultimately responsible to destroy it and we have to do more
The only time I even address non-Muslims regarding Islam is when you say stupid stuff that normally begins with "All Muslims...." or "Islam is a ...(nothing nice)...religion"
Imagine, grown adults who still talk and believe in infinite like "All...(group)" wow! just wow!
*yawn* Someone wake me when he says something relevent to the topic.
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Now this is an example of a person who couldn't have paid attention and read what I wrote.
I completely dismissed my own arguments and verses I posted as examples of how not to read the Bible. My only point was to illustrate that what idiots do with the Bible, idiots do with the Qur'an, i.e. pick and choose a verse and misquote, mistranslate, and misuse.
And what did she do? Repeat exactly what I stated, but didn't even realize it, because she was too busy rolling eyes and making up her mind about what she thought I meant than actually reading it.
She called it a leftist-trick, because obviously if I disagree, I must be a leftist huh?
No, I called it a leftist trick because most conservatives will learn at least something about a subject before they lecture others in that subject. You give no impression of doing so. You speak about Christianity with as much knowledge as the most foolish troll I've seen on this board. You can't learn about Christianity from anti-Christian sites, and you won't impress anyone by quoting only their favorite verses.
Speaking of which, where is the reference for that "quote?" It seems your comprehension is still lacking...
From the other posts, I gather you've been in the military. Thanks for your service.
I'm sorry no one in the military managed to educate you. We have many fine pastors and ministers serving, almost any of which could have cured your lack of knowledge.
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Yes, TxRadioguy,now there is trasnsferance, cognitive dissonance and a touch of narcissism. Prove someone is rationalizing? BOY, that's a first. Clearly Robert has been "going to school" honing his arguments, but it boils down the the same old stuff.
islamofascists kill out of hand. islamofascists all proclaim thay are they are the "true" Muslims. islamofascists hide, without uniform among the civilian populace , often committing terrorist acts using civilians as "cover".
These things are self evident, and all the decrying that they not of the faith by other Muslin sects carries NO TRUCK with Christians and other non-Muslims. The flaw, obviously, is within Islam and the "satanic verses" that the fascists so cling to. The "cure" cannot possibly come from without, but must be a revolution and reformation from within. From without, unless the rest of the world utterly destroys Islam, the "radicals" would rebuild, re train, rearm and attack civilization again. Afterall, that is what has been going on, one form or another for 1500 years or so.
But, as the cure lies not with me, I really no longer care to play this game with Muslims, no matter how sincere. Cure the problem, then we'll talk.
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Salaam is talking nonsense, and I suspect even he realizes that by this point.
1. The Hadith is certainly an authoritative source for Islamic teaching. Yes, there is debate among Muslims as to which parts of this tradition are most reliable (modern Muslims like to deprecate "the Satanic verses," for example). But just counting verses (or "versus," as he says) in the Qu'ran to support your interpretation of Islam, while ignoring the Hadith, is intellectually dishonest. And the Hadith teaches extreme violence against innocent Christians and Jews. It might teach a lot of other things, too, but so what?
2. Mohammed himself murdered Christians and Jews during his lifetime, and taught his disciples to do the same. He married a prepubescent girl, in addition to his other wives. He broke treaties he had made. These facts are important, because Mohammed is revered as not only a hero, but as an example to follow, for modern Muslims. To claim that people who follow Mohammed's example by doing all these things, are not authentic Muslims, is ridiculous.
3. Anyone who wants to know the truth about Islam is welcome to read the books by Robert Spencer on the subject. I understand that Salaam does not like Spencer's books, which is fine, but he won't offer any good reasons for his dislike, so there's no reason for us to share it. True, there are some "can't-we-all-just-get-along" books about Islam from feel-good liberals, but those are a lot less worth reading.
4. Salaam's allusions to the Bible are a transparent attempt to deflect attention from the real issues.
5. I admit that most Muslims do not murder the "infidels," but that simply means they are not consistent with Islam. Let's hope they stay that way. If they get radicalized, we are in deep trouble. It does not do anybody any good to sugarcoat the reality.
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So basically sam and others, the best source for knowledge about Islam should come from a non-Muslim Robert Spencer who just happens to support your beliefs about a religion none of you have any experience practicing? I guess it makes a hell of a lot of sense to study religion from the perspective of people who never practiced it, maybe it's just me but that makes about as much sense as having sex to understand virginity.
Moving right along, it really doesn't matter what non-Muslims think about Islam as long as in your hopes and dreams to cling on to ideologies consistent with those of terrorists don't harm me or others in the process. I find it amusing that many of you non-Muslims believe exactly as and give credence to the ideologies of terrorists, versus the ideologies and beliefs of a billion Muslims. That's the reality of this game though, you support the ideology that best propels your agenda. It just happens to be in this case that both you and the terrorists support and believe in the same ideologies, it's only how you apply them that is different. Why else would you prop up the terrorists example of "true Islam"?
Now as far as my "experience" with Christianity is concerned. Do not guess, conjecture, or assume, one can simply ask. I didn't learn Christianity from a website of any kind for the record, I actually practiced, studied, and taught it most of my life prior to my conversion and still study it today (academically of course). My mere reference to Christianity was to highlight a point and illustrate the foolishness of some's logic especially the open hypocrisy of applying one standard or study to one religion while completely changing the rules for another. I never mention Christianity in any formal capacity without sincere respect and reverence (you know good home training) something that seems to be lacking from many of the "Christians" on this and other outlets as it applies to other religions, namely mine. I guess in some homes talking ill of others beliefs is OK, well in mine, if you don't have anything nice to say.....well you get the point. Debate, discuss, etc. but open slander and vile conjecture speaks more about the person who does such and less about the object of such commentary, so as a man speaketh.....
Now I know what's next, I wasn't a good Christian, I obviously didn't listen, I couldn't have possibly "truly" understood, blah, blah, blah, etc. etc. the mere mention of such things from any of you toward me would once again illustrate your hypocrisy as you would say such about me with great conviction and belief with the expectation that theologically your points are valid, yet if any Muslim such as those that share my beliefs say the same about terrorists, we are wrong. Once again two different standards. It appears that good ole Christians well at least some of these on Conservative sites as I never personally experienced the radical type of Christianity that you guys have (I guess my upbringing and Pastors went to different seminaries) have the monopoly on faith and have the sole ability to judge who is and who isn't as it relates to religion.
As it's quite obvious that you guys alone can tell who are real Christians and who are real Muslims. Other Christians and Muslims need not give an opinion. Maybe some of you can help me with my Arabic studies, Tafsir, Qiyas, etc. as I couldn't possibly know anything about that, well not as much as you guys do....
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TxRadioguy, who are you replying to me or Peter?
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Radioguy, Yes, I read what I wrote and stand by it. I, a Christian, cannot cure Islam's problems, only the Muslims can.
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Radioguy, Yes, I read what I wrote and stand by it. I, a Christian, cannot cure Islam's problems, only the Muslims can.
My apologies. I misread and thought what I saw was from our new Muslim Apologist troll.
That what I get for trying to post right after dealing with a DAP.
:bow:
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No sweat Radio, thiought that was it :-) BTW, I have a bunch of radio tubes that I BELIEVE were from marine (yacht) radios from the 50's. Kbnow anyone who might want them?
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I think Ann Coulter had a cure right after 9-11
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I'm going to make the ASSumption that you have heard of Jesus, and possibly even heard of the New Testament. To make it REALLY simple, Christians are not Old Testament believers, they are followers of Christ. Quoting Deutronomy as though it contained commands for Christians to be violent is an ignorant-leftist trick. If you have no more knowledge of Christianity than you've demonstrated so far, before you try to have a debate, you need to go learn some of the basics of Christianity.
Here's a helpful hint: you can't learn anything correct on any leftist anti-Christian site.
Jesus said that he did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. (Matthew 5:17).
And honestly, why should any Christian be ashamed of the Old Testament? We're saying it's God's word.
BTW, Jews (like most Muslims and Christians) do not take everything they're reading literally.
Let's see if I can find some contraversal stuff from the New Testament that would make an outsider bash Christianity?
Matthew 10:45 says that Jesus did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth.
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to turn `a man against his father, a daughter
against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'
37 Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me
is not worthy of me;
anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me
is not worthy of me;
38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me
is not worthy of me.
39 Whoever finds his life will lose it,
and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."
Luke 22:36 (KJV)
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
I'm sure you've also read in the bible where Paul speaks about how a slave needs to obey his master. I remember calling the Pastor's house up and asking about that years ago. Paul also said that women needed to zip it in church. Paul also said that women are to submit to their husbands.
I know what you're thinking. You're taking it all out of context. There's good to counter that. Well, same is true for the Koran. I get tired of people using the bad in the Koran and pretending the good isn't in there. I don't have time to dig up the good right now, but maybe I can later this week if people are interested.
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*yawn* Someone wake me when he says something relevent to the topic.
He's said something relevant.
Psst! Just kidding. I just wanted to wake you for no good reason. lol.
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Have you paid your jiyza yet, Dhimmi?
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from our new Muslim Apologist troll.
Wanna be an adult and back up your name-calling with evidence?
Have you paid your jiyza yet, Dhimmi?
I seriously doubt you can define or articulate either term correctly... :whatever:
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I may not know exactly their definition but I get close enough.
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Jesus said that he did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. (Matthew 5:17).
And honestly, why should any Christian be ashamed of the Old Testament? We're saying it's God's word.
I repeat...Quoting Deutronomy as though it contained commands for Christians to be violent is an ignorant-leftist trick. Not one word you typed changes that fact. No one is ashamed of the Old Testament, but we, as Christians, are not commanded to violence by the Old Testament laws. ::)
Christ taught us to pray for our enemies and do good to them. Seriously, Lanie, have you READ the Bible? ::)
BTW, Jews (like most Muslims and Christians) do not take everything they're reading literally.
Let's see if I can find some contraversal stuff from the New Testament that would make an outsider bash Christianity?
Matthew 10:45 says that Jesus did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
The Sword of God is His Word. Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Luke 22:36 (KJV)
I'm sure you've also read in the bible where Paul speaks about how a slave needs to obey his master. I remember calling the Pastor's house up and asking about that years ago. Paul also said that women needed to zip it in church. Paul also said that women are to submit to their husbands.
I know what you're thinking. You're taking it all out of context. There's good to counter that. Well, same is true for the Koran. I get tired of people using the bad in the Koran and pretending the good isn't in there. I don't have time to dig up the good right now, but maybe I can later this week if people are interested.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
There probably is good in the Koran. It's too bad such a huge number of it's followers believe the good applies only to those with whom they agree...(sort of like our liberals with their much-adored tolerance.) However, historically, true Islam has spread primarily by war, while true Christianity has spread primarily by service. OF course, this is less obvious to those that are carefully taught the falsehoods present in much of our educational system in which the crimes attributed to Christianity are emphasized while the immense amount of good done is ignored...and vice versa for Islam, in that the history of "conversion by the sword" is ignored and the few ancient advances are presented as wonderous.
Even college educated, "former" Christian, semi-conservatives seem to know nearly nothing.
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Now as far as my "experience" with Christianity is concerned. Do not guess, conjecture, or assume, one can simply ask. I didn't learn Christianity from a website of any kind for the record, I actually practiced, studied, and taught it most of my life prior to my conversion and still study it today (academically of course).
Now I know what's next, I wasn't a good Christian, I obviously didn't listen, I couldn't have possibly "truly" understood, blah, blah, blah, etc. etc. the mere mention of such things from any of you toward me would once again illustrate your hypocrisy as you would say such about me with great conviction and belief with the expectation that theologically your points are valid, yet if any Muslim such as those that share my beliefs say the same about terrorists, we are wrong.
A real Christian...as anyone who practiced, studied, and taught it should know...is a person who has accepted the gift of salvation from Christ, and is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. You may believe it is a hypocrisy, but you obviously never, in all your practicing, studying and (worst of all) teaching, "got it." There is ONE point to being Christian, only one...and you missed it.
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Wanna be an adult and back up your name-calling with evidence?
You come here and immediately go into defense mode on this one subject. And in typical troll fashion you come back two weeks later...long after the topic has gone to the back pages and bring it right back up again with mind numbing long winded platitudes that don't really address the OP...but DO let you climb upon your soap box and tell us how wrong we are for our beliefs on Islam.
I seriously doubt you can define or articulate either term correctly... :whatever:
Your arrogance would be laughable if you didn't believe your own hype so completely.
You definitely are not one of the Naval Infantry's finest that's for sure.
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I repeat...Quoting Deutronomy as though it contained commands for Christians to be violent is an ignorant-leftist trick. Not one word you typed changes that fact. No one is ashamed of the Old Testament, but we, as Christians, are not commanded to violence by the Old Testament laws. ::)
Christ taught us to pray for our enemies and do good to them. Seriously, Lanie, have you READ the Bible? ::)
The Sword of God is His Word. Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
There probably is good in the Koran. It's too bad such a huge number of it's followers believe the good applies only to those with whom they agree...(sort of like our liberals with their much-adored tolerance.) However, historically, true Islam has spread primarily by war, while true Christianity has spread primarily by service. OF course, this is less obvious to those that are carefully taught the falsehoods present in much of our educational system in which the crimes attributed to Christianity are emphasized while the immense amount of good done is ignored...and vice versa for Islam, in that the history of "conversion by the sword" is ignored and the few ancient advances are presented as wonderous.
Even college educated, "former" Christian, semi-conservatives seem to know nearly nothing.
I'm a current Christian. I'm a forever Christian. I'm just making a point about scriptures. I think a lot more Muslims than realized do follow the good in the Koran. I haven't met a Muslim yet who actually supported terrorism.
And I think you need to check your history some. Yes, Christianity has spread through service and other missionary work. However, war has also been a tool for spreading it. I'm sure you've heard of the Crussades and the fall of the Aztec culture. (Yes, I realize the Crussades were a response to the Muslims taking over particular countries, but it happened 700 years before, so give me a break. Not to mention Jews died in this too. What did they do to deserve it?). And a side fun fact is that there was a time when an entire country in Europe (mostly Britain I think) had to change their denomination because the new King or Queen believed a certain way.
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I'm a current Christian... I haven't met a Muslim yet who actually supported terrorism.
You may humbly thank God and your local, "muslim torturing" military personnel for that inesteemable blessing.
(Yes, I realize the Crussades were a response to the Muslims taking over particular countries, but it happened 700 years before, so give me a break...)
Perhaps you ought to check YOUR history, ma'am. For the record, the Muslims were proselytizing on the gates of Vienna (that's Austria - in the middle of EUROPE - in case you're suffering from geography as well as history deficiencies due to a public skool ejimacation (like mine)) as recently as 1683 with their peaceful, enlightened message of "bow to our God, and live - as slaves - to see another sunrise, or die". For historical perspective, that's about the same time that the first members of the Defiant family were landing on the blessed shores of New Jersey. A mite more recent than 700 years ago. Then we can go on to the Muslim's case of the muslim genocide of Armenian christians, as recently as the early 1900s, and carried on with renewed gusto under the cover of the First World War - which, in case your public school didn't cover because stoking your self esteem took up all available lesson time that day, ended in 1918. Just a little more recent than 700 years ago, Lanie.
Before you start your outboard motor impression with your "but...but...but...", understand that muslims who define "jihad" as anything other than the systematic conquest and forcible conversion of all the world to slaves under the boot heels of Allah - no matter how long it takes - are either lying to you (an infidel: perfectly acceptable under Kuranic code), or exceptionally rare and naive as to what the goals and objectives of their "religion of peace" truely teaches.
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You may humbly thank God and your local, "muslim torturing" military personnel for that inesteemable blessing.
Perhaps you ought to check YOUR history, ma'am. For the record, the Muslims were proselytizing on the gates of Vienna (that's Austria - in the middle of EUROPE - in case you're suffering from geography as well as history deficiencies due to a public skool ejimacation (like mine)) as recently as 1683 with their peaceful, enlightened message of "bow to our God, and live - as slaves - to see another sunrise, or die". For historical perspective, that's about the same time that the first members of the Defiant family were landing on the blessed shores of New Jersey. A mite more recent than 700 years ago. Then we can go on to the Muslim's case of the muslim genocide of Armenian christians, as recently as the early 1900s, and carried on with renewed gusto under the cover of the First World War - which, in case your public school didn't cover because stoking your self esteem took up all available lesson time that day, ended in 1918. Just a little more recent than 700 years ago, Lanie.
Before you start your outboard motor impression with your "but...but...but...", understand that muslims who define "jihad" as anything other than the systematic conquest and forcible conversion of all the world to slaves under the boot heels of Allah - no matter how long it takes - are either lying to you (an infidel: perfectly acceptable under Kuranic code), or exceptionally rare and naive as to what the goals and objectives of their "religion of peace" truely teaches.
I don't mean to be ugly, but I think it's time to give evidence (as in data of statistics and so forth) about Muslims who actually think violence is the answer to stuff. I will admit that the Muslim countries tend to be violent, but ALL theocracies across time have been violent. Most Muslims here and in other free countries are not violent. And I don't want to hear "This is a conservative board" blah blah blah. There are conservative Muslims (in fact, I'd view most fundamentalist Muslims as socially conservative even if they do take things a lot further than most fundamentalist Christians) and I'd rather not think of Muslim hating/bashing as a conservative thing. So I want to see some actual data instead of just stereotypes.
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I repeat...Quoting Deutronomy as though it contained commands for Christians to be violent is an ignorant-leftist trick. Not one word you typed changes that fact. No one is ashamed of the Old Testament, but we, as Christians, are not commanded to violence by the Old Testament laws. ::)
But everyone agrees on that point. Why is it worth repeating?
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Quote from: Lanie on 2009-06-16, 23:05:13
I'm a current Christian... I haven't met a Muslim yet who actually supported terrorism.
I have. Mainly they were face down on the ground and zip tied or in a cell at Abu Ghraib. These poor misunderstood people you feel sympathy for would as soon slit your throat as to look at you.
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I have. Mainly they were face down on the ground and zip tied or in a cell at Abu Ghraib. These poor misunderstood people you feel sympathy for would as soon slit your throat as to look at you.
Now we have a discussion people.
So, Tx, are you saying that your experiences are superior to Lanie's or vice versa? Who has the monopoly on experience, and can an experience be indicative or utilized as the source of truthful assertions about entire groups of people?
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Oh great, Salaam is back to tell us how great the wonderful and peaceful religion of Islam is. :whatever:
Hey Salaam, care to tell us about any free Islamic countries?
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So, Tx, are you saying that your experiences are superior to Lanie's or vice versa? Who has the monopoly on experience, and can an experience be indicative or utilized as the source of truthful assertions about entire groups of people?
Yes my experience with peacaful Muslims as well as the violent terrorist supporting ones is far greater than dear little Bridgets.
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Yes my experience with peacaful Muslims as well as the violent terrorist supporting ones is far greater than dear little Bridgets.
Yes, I am supposing mine are as well.
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So basically sam and others, the best source for knowledge about Islam should come from a non-Muslim Robert Spencer who just happens to support your beliefs about a religion none of you have any experience practicing? I guess it makes a hell of a lot of sense to study religion from the perspective of people who never practiced it, maybe it's just me but that makes about as much sense as having sex to understand virginity.
No, the best source of knowledge about Islam is in the Qu'ran and the Hadith. Robert Spencer quotes both copiously, then analyzes fairly what he quotes. And you know it.
Actually, a non-Muslim can certainly be an expert on Islam, in exactly the same way an oncologist can understand cancer, without having cancer himself.
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TxRadioGuy, let's belay the name-calling. Salaam is not a "troll". He did go on vacation last week and probably didn't have much time or access for the internet. Besides, that, carry on....
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Nice, an argument about a religion that is most likely is based on someone who never existed.
Muslims want to subjugate everyone. Denying this is like Gays saying "but the Bible only says homosexuality is bad in ONE place!!!!"
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No, the best source of knowledge about Islam is in the Qu'ran and the Hadith.
Correct. but without Tafsir like Exegesis of the Bible, anyone could come up with any conclusions they want.
Robert Spencer quotes both copiously, then analyzes fairly what he quotes. And you know it.
Oh he quotes them alright, but fairly? Not according to the myriad of Islamic scholars both Muslim and Non-Muslim who are actual experts in Islamic Studies. It's not hard to find the volumes on the net against his ramblings and piss poor scholarship by actual scholars in Islamic Studies, most of which aren't even Muslim! The only ones supporting Spencer represent one demographic.....
Actually, a non-Muslim can certainly be an expert on Islam, in exactly the same way an oncologist can understand cancer, without having cancer himself.
True. There are many non-Muslim scholars of Islam that will state almost verbatim many of the things I state.
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Nice, an argument about a religion that is most likely is based on someone who never existed.
Your not one of those atheists against Christianity are you? :lmao:
Muslims want to subjugate everyone. Denying this is like Gays saying "but the Bible only says homosexuality is bad in ONE place!!!!"
Prove it!
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I look at Muslims in 3 ways, the silent ones, the violent ones, and the salesmen. You're coming off like a salesmen, Salaam.
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Prove it!
Honor killings
Denying women the right to go to school and get an education
Intolerance of any or even the slightest criticism of Mohammed or Islam
Forcing religion into every aspect of everyday life from politics to traffic laws and the judicial system in general to what you can and can't buy at the market.
Shall I continue?
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You're coming off like a salesmen, Salaam.
He's very heavily focused on Dawa.
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Honor killings
Denying women the right to go to school and get an education
Intolerance of any or even the slightest criticism of Mohammed or Islam
Forcing religion into every aspect of everyday life from politics to traffic laws and the judicial system in general to what you can and can't buy at the market.
Shall I continue?
Shit, just look at the requirements to enter Saudi Arabia, for starters.
Oh, and Salaam, I wanted to get a room at the Mecca Hilton next month. Think I could reserve it in your name? Seems they have a little problem with lil 'ol me staying there.
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Your not one of those atheists against Christianity are you? :lmao:
Prove it!
Show me where Mohammed was a living person, Jesus was chronicled in Roman times.
Easy enough:
Leviticus 20:13 – “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.â€
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I'm a current Christian. I'm a forever Christian. I'm just making a point about scriptures. I think a lot more Muslims than realized do follow the good in the Koran. I haven't met a Muslim yet who actually supported terrorism.
And I think you need to check your history some. Yes, Christianity has spread through service and other missionary work. However, war has also been a tool for spreading it. I'm sure you've heard of the Crussades and the fall of the Aztec culture. (Yes, I realize the Crussades were a response to the Muslims taking over particular countries, but it happened 700 years before, so give me a break. Not to mention Jews died in this too. What did they do to deserve it?). And a side fun fact is that there was a time when an entire country in Europe (mostly Britain I think) had to change their denomination because the new King or Queen believed a certain way.
Everyone knows about the periods when the church was run by politicians. ::) In fact, that is ALL most people know. However, as "The Church" is defined as: "all those who have accepted Christ as Savior," it is simply impossible to grow The Church through war or conquest. There is no way to force someone to become a Christian...it MUST be done willingly. Therefore, 100% of the "History of Christianity" taught in today's educational system is a lie. What they teach is the result of letting politicians take over your religion...exactly the way today's government is trying to take it over. Our founding fathers worked very hard to limit government's role in the church for just that reason...and our leftists morons are knocking themselves out breaking down that wall to create more and more government rule of the church. :thatsright:
On the other hand, Muslims have no requirement to accept the Holy Spirit in order to become Muslim. They can truly spread their religion through war, terror, and murder.
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Just wanted to :fuelfire:
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2009/06/islamic_toleran.html#comments
...and you thought Jim Crow laws were bad.
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Robert Spencer, for your edification:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/spencer/
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I have. Mainly they were face down on the ground and zip tied or in a cell at Abu Ghraib. These poor misunderstood people you feel sympathy for would as soon slit your throat as to look at you.
I don't feel sorry for *those* Muslims. You assume too much.
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Yes my experience with peacaful Muslims as well as the violent terrorist supporting ones is far greater than dear little Bridgets.
You realize Salaam doesn't know who Bridget is.
I recognize that your experience is superior to mine. As it turns out, the original post you quoted was not one speaking to you. And as it turns out, you're talking about peaceful Muslims. I wonder why you'd speak of something weird like that.
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I don't feel sorry for *those* Muslims. You assume too much.
Actually you don't clarify enough.
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Honor killings
Denying women the right to go to school and get an education
Intolerance of any or even the slightest criticism of Mohammed or Islam
Forcing religion into every aspect of everyday life from politics to traffic laws and the judicial system in general to what you can and can't buy at the market.
Shall I continue?
Can you prove that this represents the majority of Muslims?
Also, can you explain why this mostly happens in Theocracies? Why is it that hardly any Muslims here are into this stuff? Oh, and why is it that before Christians stopped having theocracies that a lot of them had similar mentalities?
Theocratic Christian: Freedom of Religion! Our religion that is! Burn that witch!
Accused: I'm not a witch.
Theocratic Christian: Of course you are. You're a woman and you're doing things that can't be explained.
Once Islamic countries give up on theocracies, I think there will be a lot of "enlightenment."
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So Muslims are only 500 years behind the rest of the world?
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May I intrest y'all in making a religion thread from this or a FC thread from this?????
Becaus all of you have moved past the fact that the soilder that was shotg and killed.
He was killed by a muslim convert..............one under FBI tasking, one that the Obama admin said stop targeting black muslim converts.He went overseas for jihad training......................
Yet now the admin has spoken and believe this was a hate crime. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
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Once Islamic countries give up on theocracies, I think there will be a lot of "enlightenment."
Bullshit. Where Muslim populations have settled in, they try and install Sharia as acceptable . They have tried it in England and in Canada. Their honor killings just don't happen in in Muslim countries, they do it wherever they live.
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Actually you don't clarify enough.
Actually, I think you only see what you want to see in me and many other people you call liberal (which I'm not denying being liberal, but a lot of liberals sort of disown me. lol).
So let me clarify my beliefs (whether you agree with them or not).
I am a Christian. That means I think that Jesus came to die for our sins, and that he is the way to the father. However, I do believe that God probably works with people in other religions or lack of because he understands that some people just can't bring themselves to believe right now. However, I also believe that every knee will bow and admit that Jesus is Lord.
While I believe that Jesus is Lord, I really do think we need to do some note swapping with the Jews since we're saying they're the mother religion. I also think people of different denominations need to do note swapping instead of making assumptions about each other.
I think that the majority of religions have mostly good people in it with some extremists.
I think that religions in which there are countries declaring they are the official religion (theocracies) have more extremists.
I think that when theocracies go, so does most extremism because this is how things go historically.
I think that torturing a terrorist to get information is morally justified, but I can't legally justify it. Some say I've been watching too much 24.
I think that waterboarding is not torture.
Let's see? What else?
I think that Scientology is just too weird.
I think it's hypocritical of the US government to go after foreign terrorist groups when we have our own here (PETA, Army of God, Jewish Defense League, Earth Liberation Front, etc). I don't think we should stop going after foreign terrorists, but I think the government should declare certain groups to be terrorist groups and knock it off with the freedom of speech argument. Freedom of speech does not include planning terrorism.
I think PRIDE parades hurt the gay rights cause.
I think Saddam Hussein couldn't STFU even when he was about to be executed. I think I'm a little bit morbid for wanting to watch that on the internet.
I'm against the death penalty, and because of that, I think we should televise them. Maybe make it Pay Per View. I think if people watched it, there would be more opponents.
I'm a hypocrite though. I don't feel sorry for child killers being executed and I don't feel sorry for child/spouse abusers who end up dead. My bad. I've prayed for a better heart and haven't gotten one yet.
I think that people should mind their own business regarding who others want to marry or spend time with. I'm not just talking about gay rights.
What else?
I think some of the accusations about Muslim charities or groups being tied to terrorist groups are legitimate and I think more investigation should be done. However, I do not want it to turn into an anti-Muslim witch hunt.
I'm pro-Israel. I've had different opinions over the years. However, I honestly think there's no reasoning with a group of people who voted in Hamas as their leader (even if Hamas did give them lots of social services). I think Israel needs to defend itself and tell others who would do much worse in their place to piss off. I still favor creating a Palestinian state, but I'm not sure if it can happen. I do think that there should be no more settlements for Israelis in particular areas. I say Israelis because they clearly want that land for Israel. Offensive opinion? Maybe to some here. It's the opinion of most I know, so I'm hoping people can get over it. lol.
I think beer is one of the most disgusting drinks ever created.
Let me know if I need to clarify on anything new. lol.
on edit: Just wanted to also clarify that I'm very grateful for all our service people. That includes you.
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Bullshit. Where Muslim populations have settled in, they try and install Sharia as acceptable . They have tried it in England and in Canada. Their honor killings just don't happen in in Muslim countries, they do it wherever they live.
But it's not common in those countries.
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Can you prove that this represents the majority of Muslims?
Do you ever READ the news?? ::) ::)
Also, can you explain why this mostly happens in Theocracies? Why is it that hardly any Muslims here are into this stuff?
You do realize that the Koran gives Muslims the right, even the command, to lie to "the infidels" until they are able to assume command? ::)
Oh, and why is it that before Christians stopped having theocracies that a lot of them had similar mentalities?
Because the same type of non-Christians were heading both theocracies.
Theocratic Christian: Freedom of Religion! Our religion that is! Burn that witch!
Accused: I'm not a witch.
Theocratic Christian: Of course you are. You're a woman and you're doing things that can't be explained.
::) ::) ::) ::) Well, at least I'm relieved the learn that there were no men damaged by "christian" theocrats.
Once Islamic countries give up on theocracies, I think there will be a lot of "enlightenment."
Any time people give up theocracies, the truth of God flourishes.
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But it's not common in those countries.
Yet...
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But it's not common in those countries.
WTF? Have you ever been outside the confines of the peaceful United States? Shari'a Law and oppression isn't just common, it's the NORM.
You clearly have no ****in' clue what you're talking about. Probably why you're a dumbass liberal.
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WTF? Have you ever been outside the confines of the peaceful United States? Shari'a Law and oppression isn't just common, it's the NORM.
You clearly have no ****in' clue what you're talking about. Probably why you're a dumbass liberal.
Okay, prove it. Show me the data that shows that most Muslims in countries that are not theocracies are like this. If you're right, you actually should be able to do this.
BTW, there are millions of Muslims here. If what you're saying is true, the US would be constantly attacked by terrorists.
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but I think the government should declare certain groups to be terrorist groups and knock it off with the freedom of speech argument
They have, didn't you see the DHS memo on 'rightwing' groups.... and the thread today about the DOD saying that protests are low-level terrorism??
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But it's not common in those countries.
Not yet, but it isn't for lack of them trying to do it. Still the fact that honor killings are viewed as acceptable by many Muslims and even allowed in Muslim ruled countries is sickening. I can not fathom how any professed liberals can in any manner support this. A woman is raped, so she must be killed to restore honor to the family? WTF is up with that?
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Okay, prove it. Show me the data that shows that most Muslims in countries that are not theocracies are like this. If you're right, you actually should be able to do this.
BTW, there are millions of Muslims here. If what you're saying is true, the US would be constantly attacked by terrorists.
We are, in court at city halls, at state houses. They push for laws and stuff that would move the uS closer to Shariah every day
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DID Y'ALL MISS THE PART ABOUT MOVING THIS...........
NOTHING Y'ALL ARE SAYING HAS TO DO WITH THE DEATH OF A ARMY PERSON THAT IS DEAD,
HE WAS KILLED BY AN AMERICAN BLACK MUSLIM CONVERT THAT HAD JIHAD TRAINING
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2274089/posts
There are several FR threads on this one
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They have, didn't you see the DHS memo on 'rightwing' groups.... and the thread today about the DOD saying that protests are low-level terrorism??
This stuff came out after 9/11, and it's only saying where these terrorists might come from. I don't think it's saying that all activists are terrorists. In any case, I listed lefty groups too.
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This stuff came out after 9/11, and it's only saying where these terrorists might come from. I don't think it's saying that all activists are terrorists. In any case, I listed lefty groups too.
You have to be the stupidest bitch that ever walked the face of the earth
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Every single day we hear about Muslims filing a lawsuit or holding protests to get 'their way'. Whether to wear a veil in a drivers license pic, which is stoopid as all get out, or using loud speakers for Mosques even though Christian churches can't ring their bells nearly as loud. Shariah banking anyone?
There is a very long list.
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You have to be the stupidest bitch that ever walked the face of the earth
Does this look familiar?
http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/780410-SHVVvq/native/780410.PDF
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Does this look familiar?
http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/780410-SHVVvq/native/780410.PDF
And this has to do with an Army person being shot and another being shot and killed by a muslim extremist.....................HOW??
Yes you are a dumb bitch................
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Okay, prove it. Show me the data that shows that most Muslims in countries that are not theocracies are like this. If you're right, you actually should be able to do this.
BTW, there are millions of Muslims here. If what you're saying is true, the US would be constantly attacked by terrorists.
They're not in the majority here. Show me one country, that's majority Muslim, that's considered a "free country", lite bright.
.....waiting........
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And this has to do with an Army person being shot and another being shot and killed by a muslim extremist.....................HOW??
Yes you are a dumb bitch................
It went off topic with the following posts that came before me.
Okay, I can't seem to link to individual posts.
The second one with Badcat wanting to make this a leftist issue.
Thundley spoke about how this man was from the "religion of peace" and how some will ignore it.
Oden's hand spoke about how he was "shocked" that this man was a Muslim convert (his sarcasm).
And still, I wasn't speaking yet.
Mrs. Smith makes a satirical post about how this is the fault of the anti-military left.
FGL spoke about how the left is an assessory to murder.
All these off topic posts and I wasn't speaking yet.
Rockurworld spoke about how he/she didn't understand why somebody would take the name of Muhammad.
I don't actually come on the scene until I agree with Thor that there are Muslims renouncing terrorism.
All these off topic posts LOOOOONG before I first posted.
And meanwhile, there's this ONGOING discussion between the "troll" and others on this subject, so this thread was looooong off topic.
Just because I don't want to be a Muslims basher or a lefty basher doesn't mean I don't have respect for the servicemen who died. That's what this really comes down to for you, not off topic posts. My sample posts and the ongoing discussion between TRG and that other guy proves it. So you can go take your ideas that I don't care about the servicemen and go **** yourself.
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They're not in the majority here. Show me one country, that's majority Muslim, that's considered a "free country", lite bright.
.....waiting........
How close does Albania come?
Hey wait a little while and there could be a dozen new Muslim countries being taken over, such as the Philippines.
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Well, it appears that only Muslim and lefty bashers are people who are staying on topic in this thread. Therefore, I will leave this thread.
And I don't want to hear stuff about playing the victim because I'm not one.
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Not gonna answer my question?
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Not gonna answer my question?
Seriously tho, Albania is a pretty quiet country and its mostly muslim
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Seriously tho, Albania is a pretty quiet country and its mostly muslim
Wow, that's it? ...and what a beacon of freedom it is. Have you researched anything about Albania?
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Wow, that's it? ...and what a beacon of freedom it is. Have you researched anything about Albania?
They be white. remarkable huh?
Desperately poor too. Maybe they need some jihad juice?
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They're not in the majority here. Show me one country, that's majority Muslim, that's considered a "free country", lite bright.
.....waiting........
Indonesia
Djibouti
Yemen
Albania
Bangladesh
Turkey
Jordan
Uzbekistan
Kazakhstan
Kyrygyzstan
United Arab Emirates
Tajikistan
Azerbaijan
Kuwait
There are plenty more.
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Oden's hand spoke about how he was "shocked" that this man was a Muslim convert (his sarcasm).
The reason I made that statement was because I estimated that he was a recent Muslim convert with, "I wonder how recently he changed his name to Abu, Muhammed, etc." before his personal information was released to the press by LRPD and the FBI. Try reading for more context in the future.
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Indonesia
Djibouti
Yemen
Albania
Bangladesh
Turkey
Jordan
Uzbekistan
Kazakhstan
Kyrygyzstan
United Arab Emirates
Tajikistan
Azerbaijan
Kuwait
There are plenty more.
UAE & Kuwait are hardly "free" countries. I viewed a video about some UAE Prince torturing some lowly peasant for some questionable reason. When countries have rulers, they are not free. Jonesy, have you been to these countries?? I have.
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I've been to Kuwait, landed in UAE, but haven't actually been on the soil.
Tell me, is a Prince torturing a "peasent" really any differant then a Congressman drowning a woman and still making laws?
Kuwaits GDP per capita is higher then America's. It's Human Development Index in SW Asia is second only to Israel. UAE's Per Capita and HDI aren't much worse.
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Indonesia
.
.
.
...
*snort* LOL.
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*snort* LOL.
Your evidence that counters this? They have a largely democratic government thats recently underwent sweeping changes handing more power to it's people, a growing economy, religious freedom, and a number of other things that makes it a "free" country.
Not to mention this little bit from their Constitution.
Chapter X: Citizens and residents
Defines citizens and residents and states that all citizens are equal before the law. Details the human rights guaranteed to all, including:
the right of children to grow up free of violence and discrimination
the right of all to legal certainty
the right to religious freedom
the right to choose education, work and citizenship as well as the right to choose where to live
the right of assembly, association and expression of opinion
the right to be free from torture
Lots of similiarities to ours...
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Your evidence that counters this? They have a largely democratic government thats recently underwent sweeping changes handing more power to it's people, a growing economy, religious freedom, and a number of other things that makes it a "free" country.
Not to mention this little bit from their Constitution.
Chapter X: Citizens and residents
Defines citizens and residents and states that all citizens are equal before the law. Details the human rights guaranteed to all, including:
the right of children to grow up free of violence and discrimination
the right of all to legal certainty
the right to religious freedom
the right to choose education, work and citizenship as well as the right to choose where to live
the right of assembly, association and expression of opinion
the right to be free from torture
Lots of similiarities to ours...
The Soviet Union of old had a lot of those same "freedoms" as well.
Just because they have them in writing...doesn't mean the people are allowed to exercise them.
As for Kuwait...any place that still makes it's women cover themselves from head to toe and requires a male to be with them at all times is not a "free" country.
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:thatsright:
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Funny, you'd usually post at least 1500-2000 words in an attempt to refute said point.
BTW--are you in favor of implementation of sharia law or not?
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Funny, you'd usually post at least 1500-2000 words in an attempt to refute said point.
BTW--are you in favor of implementation of sharia law or not?
Was this the BIG question asked in the other thread?
My God, the answer is NO. I have been saying that for God only knows how many years. You could have asked someone here who already knows me, if that was the BIG question you were paranoid for an answer for.... :thatsright:
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Well, considering your avoidance at answering the question the last time I asked it.
Just sayin.
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I get all warm and fuzzy when I read about the "religion of peace".
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
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Was this the BIG question asked in the other thread?
My God, the answer is NO. I have been saying that for God only knows how many years. You could have asked someone here who already knows me, if that was the BIG question you were paranoid for an answer for.... :thatsright:
If you do not want Sharia law to be established, you are not obedient to the Quran and the Hadith. Good. But know that is where you stand.
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Your evidence that counters this? They have a largely democratic government thats recently underwent sweeping changes handing more power to it's people, a growing economy, religious freedom, and a number of other things that makes it a "free" country.
Not to mention this little bit from their Constitution.
Chapter X: Citizens and residents
Defines citizens and residents and states that all citizens are equal before the law. Details the human rights guaranteed to all, including:
the right of children to grow up free of violence and discrimination
the right of all to legal certainty
the right to religious freedom
the right to choose education, work and citizenship as well as the right to choose where to live
the right of assembly, association and expression of opinion
the right to be free from torture
Lots of similiarities to ours...
Tell that to the West Papuans , the Timorese and the people in Aceh. I'm sure they're going to be thrilled to bits to hear the news.
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Indonesia
Christian College in Indonesia Will Relocate After Violent Attacks
Attacks on their campus have forced students at a Christian college in Indonesia’s capital to take refuge in tents and in the lobby of the parliament building for
Read more ...
14:13 Posted in Indonesia | Permalink | Comments (0) | Email this
27 June 2008
Indonesian authorities tear down three churches in Bekasi
Disregarding an agreement reached with Christian religious leaders, Indonesian officials demolish three Protestant churches, which had been previously forced to suspend their Sunday functions. Christians complain about what they view as a “discriminatory act against us.â€
Read more ...
21:38 Posted in Indonesia | Permalink | Comments (0) | Email this
07 April 2008
Indonesia: Over 100 churches close in 3 Years
Islamic extremism and local governments have closed more than 100 churches in Indonesia within three years, according to a persecution watchdog agency
http://mychristianblood.blogspirit.com/indonesia/
Djibouti
Yemen
Albania
Bangladesh
Turkey
http://mychristianblood.blogspirit.com/turkey
Jordan
Uzbekistan
Baptists and Jehovah’s Witnesses deemed “illegalâ€
Baptists are systematically persecuted, even when all they do is meet for prayer. Jehovah’s Witnesses fear their faith might be banned “like in Soviet times.â€
Read more ...
14:50 Posted in Uzbekistan | Permalink | Comments (0) | Email this
28 August 2007
Uzbekistan Christian Could Face Five Years in Prison for Hosting Worship Services
UZBEKISTAN (ANS) -- A small Baptist congregation in Uzbekistan is under fire again from authorities.
Read more ...
09:26 Posted in Uzbekistan | Permalink | Comments (1) | Email this
19 January 2006
TELEVISION SLANDERS PROTESTANT CHURCH
Evangelicals’ relatives, neighbors swayed by ‘terrible lies and accusations.’
January 16 (Compass) – A “documentary†televised regionally in Uzbekistan last summer has left entire communities convinced that
http://mychristianblood.blogspirit.com/uzbekistan/
Kazakhstan
Kyrygyzstan
United Arab Emirates
Tajikistan
Azerbaijan
Kuwait
There are plenty more.
There are plenty more...
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Tell that to the West Papuans , the Timorese and the people in Aceh. I'm sure they're going to be thrilled to bits to hear the news.
what is written in a Constitution or the UN Charter is meaningless.
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I think beer is one of the most disgusting drinks ever created.
:o HOW DARE YOU! THOR! BAN HER NOW! :censored:.......................... :-)
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Thor's a dude, Toasted.
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Thor's a dude, Toasted.
I think she was quoting Lanie/Bridget...
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If you do not want Sharia law to be established, you are not obedient to the Quran and the Hadith. Good. But know that is where you stand.
:lmao: What is Shariah Law?
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Thor's a dude, Toasted.
I was talking about Lanie Bro! :-)
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:lmao: What is Shariah Law?
Sharia law is what you said you did not want established. Or are you being dishonest? Again?
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I think she was quoting Lanie/Bridget...
HEY! Mrs S! I'm a dude! :hammer: :-)
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HEY! Mrs S! I'm a dude! :hammer: :-)
:o :o :confused: Sorry!! :( :( I should have taken a closer look at your avatar...