The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: GoldieAZ on May 31, 2009, 12:18:58 PM
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WICHITA, Kan. -- Dr. George Tiller, a Kansas man who became one of the most famous figures in the national debate over abortion, was shot and killed at his church Sunday morning, KAKE-TV reported.
The station said Tiller was walking into Reformation Lutheran Church at 10:03 a.m., when he was shot.
Tiller was pronounced dead when emergency crews arrived, the station reported.
Police were looking for a blue Ford Taurus with a K-State vanity plate, license number 225 BAB. Police described him as a white male in his 50s or 60s, 6 feet 1 inch tall, 220 pounds, wearing a white shirt and dark pants.
Tiller has been among the few U.S. physicians performing late-term abortion. His clinic has repeatedly been the site of protests for about two decades.
http://www.kmbc.com/news/19615730/detail.html?treets=kc1&tml=kc1_break&ts=T&tmi=kc1_break_1_11460105312009
Sad end to a sad life. It will, of course, be politicized.
edited big block o' text (added paragraphs) -- Chris
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Late term abortions? He's a murderer...this may sound cold...but I won't shed one ounce of remorse for this "man"
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Wasn't he the one who was real cozy with the current head of the Dept of Health and Human Services in the obama administration?
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May the souls of many forgiving Little Ones greet Tiller on the other side and beg our Lord for His mercy in the Light of God.
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Wasn't he the one who was real cozy with the current head of the Dept of Health and Human Services in the obama administration?
Yes, that's the one. However, it won't be more than six hours before this is deemed to be the fault of Rush Limbaugh or George Bush.
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Prayers for this man's soul.
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Yes, that's the one. However, it won't be more than six hours before this is deemed to be the fault of Rush Limbaugh or George Bush.
I'm sure locals will pin it on Operation Rescue...they've been fighting a court battle for years.
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according to the local news, the person that pulled the trigger http://www.kake.com/news is know for violent protest. Nothing was done today except killing a man in the lobby of a church. Like it or not, what Dr. Tiller was doing was legal (don't quibble over the existing law suites that will no doubt be dropped now). The Wichita Eagle has some stories up already about it and you can also look at KSN (channel 3 here).
Figure that it will just be a few weeks before another MD fill the void. What church do you suggest that MD be shot in?
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Late term abortions? He's a murderer...this may sound cold...but I won't shed one ounce of remorse for this "man"
Same here; you reap what you sow in this life or the after life.
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was this the guy from the partial birth abortion case?
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The suspect fled the scene and authorities are still investigating. His car is described as a powder blue or light blue Taurus with a K-State vanity plate, license number 225 BAB. He is described as a white male in his 50's or 60's, 6'1," 220 lbs, wearing a white shirt and dark pants.
The car is licensed to Merriam, Kansas.
http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/46575872.html
Merriam is part of Kansas City.
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was this the guy from the partial birth abortion case?
He's been in several cases lately, he performed abortions at all stages of pregnancy and has been accused of performing them on girls as young as 10 without reporting the rape to authorities. He has also been on trial for having all the "second opinions" required by law performed by a doctor that is basically his employee, which is not legal. However, I think he won that case. I don't know about a partial birth abortion case...
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Figure that it will just be a few weeks before another MD fill the void. What church do you suggest that MD be shot in?
Find out who suggested Tiller's church and get back to me.
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To me it isn't all that shocking that he was killed. It was, however, shocking that he was at church when it happened. What kind of church allows members who are partial birth abortion doctors? I know that some say that all sins are equal but I never saw it that way. I think what he did was one of the worst sins out there. I can very well understand the rage that causes a person to lose it enough to do this.
Operation Rescue already put out a statement on this....
"We are shocked at this morning's disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down," Troy Newman, Operation Rescue's president, said in a statement. "Operation Rescue has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see him brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning."
The family wants us to feel badly for them. To them this man was a hero, to rational humans he was a butcher.
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after the economy collapses we are going to see chaos and I hope the mobs take it out on the media and politicians and academicians and bureaucrats and those who are really responsible... I doubt we will have any law and order
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Well, it's all very sad and whatever, but my perpetual question, which remains unanswered.
An abortion profiteer gets murdered about once every fifteen years, and it makes the top-of-the-fold of major newspapers, and the lead-in of television news.
Lots of convenience store clerks, liquor store clerks, pawnbrokers, little old ladies, small children, get murdered every day, and no news.
Why is the death of one newsworthy, and the deaths of so many others not?
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To me it isn't all that shocking that he was killed. It was, however, shocking that he was at church when it happened. What kind of church allows members who are partial birth abortion doctors? I know that some say that all sins are equal but I never saw it that way. I think what he did was one of the worst sins out there. I can very well understand the rage that causes a person to lose it enough to do this.
Operation Rescue already put out a statement on this....
The family wants us to feel badly for them. To them this man was a hero, to rational humans he was a butcher.
Church's Chicken has "church" in its name too. :-*
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Bill O'Reilly was REALLY after him. Called him Tiller the Baby Killer. I agree that late term abortion is infanticide.
Tiller also covered up rape of pre conscent aged girls , non disclosure of any info., inclusdiNG THAT REQUIRED BY LAW. I believe it was 5000+ over the years. That a terrible, awful thing.
He was a rat, and was exterminated.
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Well, it's all very sad and whatever, but my perpetual question, which remains unanswered.
An abortion profiteer gets murdered about once every fifteen years, and it makes the top-of-the-fold of major newspapers, and the lead-in of television news.
Lots of convenience store clerks, liquor store clerks, pawnbrokers, little old ladies, small children, get murdered every day, and no news.
Why is the death of one newsworthy, and the deaths of so many others not?
Mr. Spock asked a similar question on Star Trek once. He never got an answer either
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Well, it's all very sad and whatever, but my perpetual question, which remains unanswered.
An abortion profiteer gets murdered about once every fifteen years, and it makes the top-of-the-fold of major newspapers, and the lead-in of television news.
Lots of convenience store clerks, liquor store clerks, pawnbrokers, little old ladies, small children, get murdered every day, and no news.
Why is the death of one newsworthy, and the deaths of so many others not?
ETA:
Candlelight vigil to honor George Tiller set for tonight in Wichita. (http://www.kansas.com/news/breaking/story/833938.html)
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ETA:
Candlelight vigil to honor George Tiller set for tonight in Wichita. (http://www.kansas.com/news/breaking/story/833938.html)
That should be interesting.
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That should be interesting.
It would be really interesting if some anti-abortion protesters showed up. :popcorn:
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May the souls of many forgiving Little Ones greet Tiller on the other side and beg our Lord for His mercy in the Light of God.
You are right. I admit it wasn't my 1st thought and I was wrong. After years of reading about DUmmy's, it has made me jaded.
You sir are a good man. I have a lot of growing to do.
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That should be interesting.
It would be a lot more interesting if Fred Phelps and his minions showed up.
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Tiller's Women's Health Care Services clinic is one of just three in the nation where abortions are performed after the 21st week of pregnancy. The clinic was heavily fortified and Tiller often traveled with a bodyguard, but Stolz said there was no indication of security at the church Sunday.
Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri said it was working with law enforcement to secure its facilities Sunday even after the suspect was in custody.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,523581,00.html
I doubt anyone is going to want to 'take his place' he has been shot before (info at link).
I would rather he not have been made a martyr to the Pro Abortion group.
Being Pro Life, to me, means every life. I would have rather seen his practice defeated legally.
They have taken someone into custody:
Johnson County sheriff's spokesman Tom Erickson said Scott Roeder was the man whose car was stopped on Interstate 35 on Sunday, about three hours after the shooting of George Tiller.
Earlier in the day, Wichita police said the suspect was a 51-year-old man from Merriam, Kan., but they refused to identify him by name.
Roeder has not been charged in the slaying, but he was expected to be taken to Wichita for questioning.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,523581,00.html
(sorry Chris for my first being sloppy)
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I doubt anyone is going to want to 'take his place' he has been shot before (info at link).
I would rather he not have been made a martyr to the Pro Abortion group.
Being Pro Life, to me, means every life. I would have rather seen his practice defeated legally.
They have taken someone into custody:
(sorry Chris for my first being sloppy)
Yes, it would have been better to shut him down legally, because it would then apply to other clinics. As is, the rabid left has been handed a reason to do further damage to Christian free speech, and to further restrict those that attempt to legally and non-violently save the lives of children.
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Well, now, I'm really surprised.
This isn't even a headliner on Drudge.
Given the way abortion enthusiasts direct the media, I thought it would be great big bloody headlines, the blinking siren, all that.
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Ain't KARMA a royal b*tch?
In post-war Germany, people like him were tried for crimes against humanity, then either sentenced to life or HUNG.
Ain't no way in hell I'll shed a tear at his death, because in my book he had it coming to him.
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Ain't KARMA a royal b*tch?
In post-war Germany, people like him were tried for crimes against humanity, then either sentenced to life or HUNG.
Ain't no way in hell I'll shed a tear at his death, because in my book he had it coming to him.
I know how ya feel. What goes around comes around. I believe he has been operating on borrowed time.
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And another person dies for the lie that is "choice". Tiller had as much choice in his own death as the children he sent to eternity without their chance at life. But the men and women that support "choice" will probably miss the irony.
May God bless his family, but I have a feeling He may not be so kind to Tiller himself.
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Atty. Gen. Eric Holder is deploying US Marshalls as added security to prevent "copycat" murders from happening.
:whatever:
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according to the local news, the person that pulled the trigger http://www.kake.com/news is know for violent protest. Nothing was done today except killing a man in the lobby of a church. Like it or not, what Dr. Tiller was doing was legal (don't quibble over the existing law suites that will no doubt be dropped now). The Wichita Eagle has some stories up already about it and you can also look at KSN (channel 3 here).
Figure that it will just be a few weeks before another MD fill the void. What church do you suggest that MD be shot in?
Read up on this ****head! He's had this coming for years! He performed this procedure very arrogantly and smugly. The fact that he was in a house of God should be the repugnant thing here! Not the fact that the "Adolf Hitler of the abortion movement got his just desserts! May he burn in hell!
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I've seen many Tiller interviews over the years - what a self-righteous, evil moonbat he was. I think he knew it would end this way, at least now he's out of his own self-inflicted misery - on earth, that is. I expected the left will continue to try to milk this "tragedy" as much as they can, but he'll never be able to come off as a sympathetic victim. They should just look at the killer as performing a very late-term, non-pba abortion.
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Read up on this ****head! He's had this coming for years! He performed this procedure very arrogantly and smugly. The fact that he was in a house of God should be the repugnant thing here! Not the fact that the "Adolf Hitler of the abortion movement got his just desserts! May he burn in hell!
Outstanding reply. Knowing the wichita community, ( I live here), it is funny that many of the physicians that were publicly against Dr. Tiller had no problem referring patients to him. Same with the Catholic Hospital in town. The point is that a person was shot in a church. The point is that the person that did the shooting is going to be found to be associated with a religious group (just my opinion). If you adhear to religious principals, we do not judge, it is god that judges our behavior, not mortals. How do you reconcile killing a person (who is a child of god), in a house of god by claiming you are doing gods work?
Abortion is never going to be made illegal again. There may be limits, but never again will it be illegal. Actions like what happened yesterday set all of us that wish to limit abortions back 30 steps.
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Outstanding reply. Knowing the wichita community, ( I live here), it is funny that many of the physicians that were publicly against Dr. Tiller had no problem referring patients to him. Same with the Catholic Hospital in town. The point is that a person was shot in a church. The point is that the person that did the shooting is going to be found to be associated with a religious group (just my opinion). If you adhear to religious principals, we do not judge, it is god that judges our behavior, not mortals. How do you reconcile killing a person (who is a child of god), in a house of god by claiming you are doing gods work?
Abortion is never going to be made illegal again. There may be limits, but never again will it be illegal. Actions like what happened yesterday set all of us that wish to limit abortions back 30 steps.
If a Catholic hospital refferred patients to that piece of shit,that hospital should have it's funding pulled by The RCC! As for Tiller being in church...Would this happen to be one of those liberal unitarian churches in which same sex marriages take place? Btw! No judgement here! just celebration! An evil person has been taken off of this earth.
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If a Catholic hospital refferred patients to that piece of shit,that hospital should have it's funding pulled by The RCC! As for Tiller being in church...Would this happen to be one of those liberal unitarian churches in which same sex marriages take place? Btw! No judgement here! just celebration! An evil person has been taken off of this earth.
Nope, it's one of the ELCA Lutheran church--ie the most liberal branch of the Lutheran church. I can understand a church not turning away a person from worship--the hope is that they will seek redemption at some point, but as someone who is a lifelong Lutheran, how someone can be granted membership and represent the church as an usher ie the first face that someone sees at the door or is directed to accept the Lord's supper is beyond me. It's why I refuse to attend an ELCA church. They have sold the faith out for many years now. It's shameful, but even many Christians will miss the shame in it and Tiller, who obviously had no conscience anyway, didn't even have the kind of ethics that would at least restrain him from holding this kind of position knowing he had no intention to make good(and probably even didn't seek) God's forgiveness for the abortions he performed. This is where the church, imo, has an obligation to inform the person they can't serve a leadership or organizational role as long as that continues. Shameful, really, shameful.
edited for wording error
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It would be a lot more interesting if Fred Phelps and his minions showed up.
Apparently, they did. And while I cannot mourn Dr. Tiller's passing, neither can I condone the actions of those who caused it. We are not to judge him--only God can do that.
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How do you reconcile killing a person (who is a child of god), in a house of god by claiming you are doing gods work?
If you live by the sword,you die by it? :-)
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Apparently, they did. And while I cannot mourn Dr. Tiller's passing, neither can I condone the actions of those who caused it. We are not to judge him--only God can do that.
But the shooter arranged the meeting.
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Apparently, they did. And while I cannot mourn Dr. Tiller's passing, neither can I condone the actions of those who caused it. We are not to judge him--only God can do that.
Yeah, pretty much how I feel. We'll let the "other" side do the name calling when they're happy one of "ours" is murdered?!
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Nope, it's one of the ELCA Lutheran church--ie the most liberal branch of the Lutheran church. I can understand a church not turning away a person from worship--the hope is that they will seek redemption at some point, but as someone who is a lifelong Lutheran, how someone can be granted membership and represent the church as an usher ie the first face that someone sees at the door or is directed to accept the Lord's supper is beyond me. It's why I refuse to attend an ELCA church. They have sold the faith out for many years now. It's shameful, but even many Christians will miss the shame in it and Tiller, who obviously had no conscience anyway, didn't even have the kind of ethics that would at least restrain him from holding this kind of position knowing he had no intention to make good(and probably even didn't seek) God's forgiveness for the abortions he performed. This is where the church, imo, has an obligation to inform the person they can't serve a leadership or organizational role as long as that continues. Shameful, really, shameful.
edited for wording error
I left my old ELCA church since it started to resemble the DNC more than the ELCA (too much gay rights, abortion's not so bad, etc., while condemning those that worked to pull their own weight as being too materialistic and not caring enough)
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Apparently, they did. And while I cannot mourn Dr. Tiller's passing, neither can I condone the actions of those who caused it. We are not to judge him--only God can do that.
If more people had 'judged' Mengele or Hitler, imagine how many lives would have been spared. Evil is evil is evil. Hard to feel sad when it is defeated in some small way. The kindest thing a Christian can do now for Tiller is to hope he made peace in that second when he knew the inevitable was coming.
I say the above wrestling with the same Christian compassion expressed here, but I keep getting back to what happens when good people refuse to take a stand. I simply can not in good conscience put this man who took Tiller's life in the same league with other murderers. Yes, he is subject to the laws of our land and will have to serve time for this...consequences I'm sure he was well aware of.
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Abortion is never going to be made illegal again. There may be limits, but never again will it be illegal. Actions like what happened yesterday set all of us that wish to limit abortions back 30 steps.
Unfortuantely Doc I think that started on january 20th 2009!
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If more people had 'judged' Mengele or Hitler, imagine how many lives would have been spared. Evil is evil is evil. Hard to feel sad when it is defeated in some small way.
Yes! "Doctor" George Tiller will never take another human life!
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according to the local news, the person that pulled the trigger http://www.kake.com/news is know for violent protest. Nothing was done today except killing a man in the lobby of a church. Like it or not, what Dr. Tiller was doing was legal (don't quibble over the existing law suites that will no doubt be dropped now). The Wichita Eagle has some stories up already about it and you can also look at KSN (channel 3 here).
Figure that it will just be a few weeks before another MD fill the void. What church do you suggest that MD be shot in?
Just because you "can" do something,doesn't mean you should!
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If more people had 'judged' Mengele or Hitler, imagine how many lives would have been spared. Evil is evil is evil. Hard to feel sad when it is defeated in some small way. The kindest thing a Christian can do now for Tiller is to hope he made peace in that second when he knew the inevitable was coming.
The good people of Kansas SHOULD have done something about him. 'Course, come to think of it, I guess one did?! I'm just saying I'd rather
see him out of business/in jail, then murdered.
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The good people of Kansas SHOULD have done something about him. 'Course, come to think of it, I guess one did?! I'm just saying I'd rather
see him out of business/in jail, then murdered.
I think that goes without saying. What I wonder though, and this is just something I toy with anyway in good conscience when thinking of ethics and such, is when does one say when? When do we say enough is enough? Even with liberals who make no bones about the future they'd like to see of conservatives? Would any one of us stand idly by while fellow Americans and fellow human beings were murdered or jailed(let's say such persecution became legal)? I do think we are soft as a nation--we no longer have the constitution even as individuals to make the really tough decisions. If consequences are involved, most would wilt like dried up flowers even if that meant lives were taken. I'm not saying I have a strong constituation like that--I don't, but I am introspective enough to know that there really is an ethical discussion at play here. How far would any of us be willing to go let's say if the US got more and more hostile to what we deem as a valuable way of life or our livlihood or our land? I've seen many here willing to take up arms for far less then lives of innocents. I only knew Tiller peripherally since I was not a huge follower of all the abortion rhetoric--I simply do not think it's the action of civilized people to take INNOCENT human life, that said it does bring about a larger discussion about where our ethical and moral limits are on allowing evil to prevail. Let's face it anything at this point can become 'legal'. Is there anything individual Americans find worth risking their own lives and freedom for?
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If more people had 'judged' Mengele or Hitler, imagine how many lives would have been spared. Evil is evil is evil. Hard to feel sad when it is defeated in some small way. The kindest thing a Christian can do now for Tiller is to hope he made peace in that second when he knew the inevitable was coming.
I say the above wrestling with the same Christian compassion expressed here, but I keep getting back to what happens when good people refuse to take a stand. I simply can not in good conscience put this man who took Tiller's life in the same league with other murderers. Yes, he is subject to the laws of our land and will have to serve time for this...consequences I'm sure he was well aware of.
The problem is, whether you like it or not (and I for one don't), abortion is, for now, legal.
While evil is indeed evil, we as a people must make the change to say, "No more innocent blood on our hands." Should he have been prosecuted for not reporting young girls being raped, etc.? Absolutely. Should someone take the law into their own hands? Not a chance.
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Late term abortions? He's a murderer...this may sound cold...but I won't shed one ounce of remorse for this "man"
+1
While I don't condone the act, this guy was a POS, just look at how the media is fawning over him.
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The problem is, whether you like it or not (and I for one don't), abortion is, for now, legal.
While evil is indeed evil, we as a people must make the change to say, "No more innocent blood on our hands." Should he have been prosecuted for not reporting young girls being raped, etc.? Absolutely. Should someone take the law into their own hands? Not a chance.
What went on in Hitler's Germany was also 'legal' at the time in his country--he made sure legality fit his vision. Again, where is the limit? When do we consider ethics over legality? I'm asking where is a person's limit? When does one's tolerance for such behavior get tested? There are people on this very board who would kill illegals for crossing on their property or fight to the death over draconian tax increases? I hardly see outrage over that and I'd consider that more troubling morally given 'render unto Caeser what is Caeser's' admonitions.
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It was legal because people didn't care enough to take a stand. Same with abortion. Not enough people are taking a stand (a legal one) to overturn Roe vs. Wade. While the deaths of some 40 MILLION children troubles me deeply, I cannot in good conscience take a human life over it. Ditto taxes or illegal immigration.
Maybe the Rule of Law still means something to me. At least I hope it does for most of us. Maybe that's the problem--we're sitting on our collective asses figuring that the situation will resolve itself when we're taken down a road to slavery and moral vacancy, bit by bit.
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Well, just think like a liberal! It was a (very) late term abortion! That makes it legal and OK, right? :thatsright:
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We should never condone murder, no matter who does it.
But this much is also true:
Tiller deserved to die, and there is less evil in the world today than there was 36 hours ago. Tiller is in God's hands now.
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We should never condone murder, no matter who does it.
But this much is also true:
Tiller deserved to die, and there is less evil in the world today than there was 36 hours ago. Tiller is in God's hands now.
I sincerely doubt it's God's hands he's in!
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The good people of Kansas SHOULD have done something about him. 'Course, come to think of it, I guess one did?! I'm just saying I'd rather
see him out of business/in jail, then murdered.
The good people of Kansas have "harassed" him almost continuously with court cases, trying to get him shut down for not reporting the rapes of girls as young as 10, and for illegally having a doctor on staff for the required second opinion instead of using an independent as the law required. Tiller owned the courts and the governor's office. He bought his way out of every charge. He spent hundreds of thousands of dollars OPENLY - and no one knows how much secretly - to buy his immunity. (The next time some tells you that abortion is not a for-profit business, you can laugh in their stupid face.)
According to NPR, there is already another "doctor" at the clinic, making sure no babies manage to survive today's appointments, so there wasn't even a hitch in the number of murders. The only way we can win this battle is through medical science making it impossible to dismiss the unborn as "less than human," and getting laws passed that recognize and protect that obvious humanity. It can't get done by committing murder.
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I just heard on the news that Tiller had performed over 60000 abortions during his career, for which he was paid millions of dollars.
This puts him on par with Josef Mengele, but Mengele didn't get millions of dollars.
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In ancient lands the word outlaw meant a person who was outside the protection of the law and could be killed without consequence
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In ancient lands the word outlaw meant a person who was outside the protection of the law and could be killed without consequence
North Carolina did have an "outLaw" law on the books. They may still have it but it hasn't been used as I know of since the 1980's? Usually they would declare someone an outlaw and if you killed them, no questions asked. The OUTLAW usually tuned himself in as quickly as possible.
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North Carolina did have an "outLaw" law on the books. They may still have it but it hasn't been used as I know of since the 1980's? Usually they would declare someone an outlaw and if you killed them, no questions asked. The OUTLAW usually tuned himself in as quickly as possible.
sounds like a good law to me