The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: BannedFromDU on May 23, 2009, 01:45:00 PM
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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat May-23-09 09:07 AM
Original message
Should Obama send a Memorial Day wreath to a monument in Arlington that honors confederate soldiers?
Edited on Sat May-23-09 09:09 AM by Cyrano
There’s a monument in Arlington Cemetery which honors confederate soldiers. Starting with Woodrow Wilson, American presidents have sent a wreath to this site on Memorial Day.
Should Obama send one? Let me sum up my opinion as succinctly as possible. No.
The goal of the Confederacy was to destroy the United States. And when they failed, and the freed slaves were getting to “uppity,†an ex-Southern general founded the KKK which many southerners willingly joined.
“Jim Crow†is the name that was applied to the practice of Southern bigotry after the Civil War. It wasn’t slavery, but it sure as hell didn’t stop the endless lynchings that took place anytime a black man dared to look at a white woman. Or let a bunch of rednecks pull off a Saturday night lynching just for the hell of it. Or dared to do anything, anywhere that some bigot found offensive.
For a few centuries, the American South was a really ugly, dangerous place to be if you weren’t a white Christian.
Lyndon Johnson’s “Civil Rights Act†and “Voting Rights Act†supposedly put an end to this crap once and for all. But try telling that to the ignorant wingnut elements of the Republican Party (many, if not most) who still “honor†the South with their despicable rebel flags on their pickup trucks and flying in their town hall squares.
I’ve barely scratched the surface of the ignorance, bigotry and hatred that existed, and to too large a degree still exists today in what was once the Confederacy.
So someone really needs to explain to me why President Barack Obama should send a wreath to a confederate monument at Arlington National Cemetery? (For that matter, why is there even a confederated monument in Arlington?)
I bet Cyrano was expecting to be canonized for this post, but... (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5708259&mesg_id=5708259)
Yeah, let's see how that would look: the first black President not laying a wreath for Confederate soldiers, who were granted status as American soldiers before Obama's father was born in some godforsaken monkey-eating country.
WeDidIt (1000+ posts) Sat May-23-09 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. I can name three reason why he MUST send the wreath
Edited on Sat May-23-09 09:12 AM by WeDidIt
1) Florida
2) North Carolina
3) Virginia
Many people who voted for Obama in those three states had ancestors who fought on the side of the Confederacy, and they are very proud of that heritage.
Besides, it would show how big of a person Obama is.
In other words, it's all politics, all the time.
Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sat May-23-09 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. Federal law was changed in 1913
Under U.S. law, Confederate Veterans are officially the one and the same as all other U.S. Veterans - given the same full legal status in terms of benefits, burial rites, and so forth. Hence, the reason this rite started under Wilson.
It was an act of reconciliation. By this point, veterans from both sides of the war were dwindling in number. They often attended reunions at battlefields, as friends. When the Lincoln Memorial was dedicated in 1922, Confederate Veterans had front row seats alongside Union Veterans.
This was an American war, fought by Americans. The law as it was changed in 1913 was a measure to acknowledge that great sacrifices were made on BOTH sides, by American soldiers and sailors. Sending a wreath recognizes this simple fact, even if the (self-)righteously indignant among you do not.
As for some other points in your post, keep in mind that Nathan Bedford Forrest disbanded the Klan when they went too far with their violence and aims. Any version which continued after him (it was a spent force after Reconstruction, until being revived in the 1920's in Indiana - not exactly a southern state) was without his approval. Forrest opened a school for ex-slaves, by the way. He knew there was value in business by having an educated labor force. He was a racist, to be sure, but no worse than Lincoln, if you actually do any research on this subject. Forrest would have scoffed at the idea of colonization.
Racism was (and sadly still is) a national and global phenomenon. Don't think for a moment when black Americans went north to escape the oppression of the south, that they were welcomed with flowers and candy. A quick read of Malcolm X's autobiography offers some insights there. Also, James Loewen's book on "Sundown Towns" reveals that the north and midwest were supremely unfriendly to black Americans, as they were heavily populated with such types of towns. The territory of Oregon? Off limits to black settlers. Eventually, the Washington Territory was created out of Oregon's northern half, and black Americans did settle there - the first one to do so was named George Washington Bush, incidentally (history has a sense of humor).
There are many other fallacies in your outraged diatribe, but I learned long ago that one can't reason about these things with those who have their minds made up.
So yes, I think President Obama should send the wreath. That would truly bring the point of reconciliation home.
Holy shit, Zomby must be on some new meds, because that a-hole is one of the most rabid DUmmies in history. Still:
Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sat May-23-09 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. I'm aware of most of the facts you've stated.
However, my hostility stems from modern day Southern politicians and the rural, uneducated, uninterested people who vote for them on a regular basis.
Do your really think that Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, South Carolina, and so many other (rural areas) of many southern states have arrived at the 20th Century (not to mention the 21st)?
No matter how much I might want to reach out a hand of reconciliation, do you really think I'd pull back anything but a handful of spit?
I've lived in the South. And the past ain't over yet. Hopefully, it will someday end. But not as long as each generation keeps passing on their historic hatreds to succeeding generations.
Sounds like Cyrano got caught at the Sonic with someone's dick in his mouth. Cyrano, you ****ing imbecile, this was dealt with in 1913. Almost 100 years ago. Your argument is MOOT. Not to mention you're an asshole with a broad brush.
What a DUmbass Cyrano is.
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The goal of the Confederacy was to destroy the United States. And when they failed, and the freed slaves were getting to “uppity,†an ex-Southern general founded the KKK which many southerners willingly joined.
WARNING!!! WARNING!!! HISTORY RE-WRITE IN PROGRESS!!!
“Jim Crow†is the name that was applied to the practice of Southern bigotry after the Civil War. It wasn’t slavery, but it sure as hell didn’t stop the endless lynchings that took place anytime a black man dared to look at a white woman. Or let a bunch of rednecks pull off a Saturday night lynching just for the hell of it. Or dared to do anything, anywhere that some bigot found offensive.
And remind me WHICH political party those bigoted ass hats supported back then?
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I've lived in the South. And the past ain't over yet. Hopefully, it will someday end. But not as long as each generation keeps passing on their historic hatreds to succeeding generations.
:censored: Liar! :bird:
It's racist nutjobs like you keeping alive a tired stereotype that contributes the most to racist attitudes in the 21st Century.
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Remember only whitey honks can be racist.
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For a few centuries, the American South was a really ugly, dangerous place to be if you weren’t a white Christian.
Last I checked we as a nation are about 220 years old,not sure where one gets a "few centuries" out of that.
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There's 306 million US citizens who don't care what the Oscar Wilde primitive wants.
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It would be the standard that 0Bama seems to be setting for himself snubbing veterans and the military so far. He started doing it on inauguration day and has done it several times since. Personally, I hope he doesn't send the wreath, only because it might get more press than his past snubs have gotten. (it would also show him to be the racist)
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There's 306 million US citizens who don't care what the Oscar Wilde primitive wants.
This is NOT evil of me, beause the results could be ONLY good.
I think Oscar Wilde really needs to be laid off his job down in Florida, forcing him to move back up with his parents in Staten Island or New Jersey.
Oscar Wilde is miserable down there in Florida, and he's not making the lives of decent and civilized people in Florida any easier.
By having to go back home, both Oscar Wilde and Florida would be better off, in their own ways.
edited to change "and" to "in;" dunno how that got by me--sorry for the inconvenience
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Hasn't every war fought by Americans be an illegal war of aggression, imperialism, racism, and hate? Shouldn't Obozo just pull out his half-dick and pee on the Arlington sign?
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Lyndon Johnson’s “Civil Rights Act†and “Voting Rights Act†supposedly put an end to this crap once and for all. But try telling that to the ignorant wingnut elements of the Republican Party (many, if not most) who still “honor†the South with their despicable rebel flags on their pickup trucks and flying in their town hall squares.
Anyone wanna remind "dicknose" over there which party Lyndon Johnson had to go to, to get the votes needed to pass that legislation? :whatever:
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Hasn't every war fought by Americans be an illegal war of aggression, imperialism, racism, and hate? Shouldn't Obozo just pull out his half-dick and pee on the Arlington sign?
Don't give him ideas.
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I need to know when the nxt DUmbass meet-up is. I'd sure like to piss on their party!
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Then why in the hell do those ****in' Yankees still keep heading down to my beloved South? If it's so damn bad, stay your sorry asses north of the Mason-Dixon line. Assholes. :bird:
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Then why in the hell do those ****in' Yankees still keep heading down to my beloved South? If it's so damn bad, stay your sorry asses north of the Mason-Dixon line. Assholes. :bird:
Generally, when the Yankees go south, they head to Arlington, or Tampa Bay. Though, this year you'll see 'em in Miami and Atlanta. :tongue:
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Generally, when the Yankees go south, they head to Arlington, or Tampa Bay. Though, this year you'll see 'em in Miami and Atlanta. :tongue:
Oh brother that was lame.......lol
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Sucks doesn't it DUmmies:
Obama, the nation's first black president, planned to continue tradition and have aides leave a wreath at the Confederate Memorial in Arlington National Cemetery, the 600-acre site that once was Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee's estate. But the White House also will send a wreath to the African American Civil War Memorial in Washington's historically black U Street neighborhood.
Presidents traditionally visit Arlington to personally leave a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns, a marble structure housing the remains of unidentified U.S. military members who died during war. Presidents then have aides deliver wreaths to other memorials or monuments, generally including the Confederate memorial.
Oh and color me surprised:
Among the professors who signed the letter is 1960s radical William Ayers, a University of Chicago education professor who helped found the radical group the Weather Underground that carried out bombings at the Pentagon and the Capitol.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/25/obama-visit-arlington-memorial-day/
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and have aides leave a wreath
Of course! No way he could actually pay respects! SOB!
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Of course! No way he could actually pay respects! SOB!
You bring up a great point--if he really had been a "uniter," he'd have gone to both monuments and laid wreaths at both. H5.
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You bring up a great point--if he really had been a "uniter," he'd have gone to both monuments and laid wreaths at both. H5.
This really pisses me off about Bam Bam! As far as I can see this puke hasn't done a damn thing as far as tradition to the job he has been elected to. POS pretty much has told the American people he is not going to either.
DAMN! Just DAMN! I hope the idiots who elected this empty suit are pleased with their results. I know I'm going to hold them accountable every chance I get! ****ing assholes!
Same goes for all the, "the repubs need a lesson", shit for brain morons, too!
Crap, are we screwed, or what?!
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Generally, when the Yankees go south, they head to Arlington, or Tampa Bay. Though, this year you'll see 'em in Miami and Atlanta. :tongue:
I am missing something here. Why did you say that?
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I am missing something here. Why did you say that?
Three words--Major League Baseball. I saw the capital "Y" of "Yankees" and decided to have some fun with it.