The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on May 18, 2009, 07:44:34 AM
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http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5673872#5674052
Oh my.
It's a very large bonfire.
Faryn Balyncd (1000+ posts) Sun May-17-09 07:32 PM
Original message
Does anyone think our coming healthcare "reform" might become WORSE than anything the GOP could do?
If the GOP could design a malignant pseudo-"reform" of healthcare, what might be its elements?
Would a Republican/lobbyist-written, perhaps:
- - Mandate that Americans purchase health coverage from the insurance industry, a la Romney's Massachusetts plan?
- - Eliminate public options, while excluding, even from discussion, advocates of a Single Payer Medicare-for-All styled system preferred by 62% of Americans?
- - Take away the tax free status of health insurance benefits?
- - Be formulated in backrooms by industry lobbyists, a la Dick Cheney's Energy Task Force?
- - Create a government mandated monopoly for the insurance industry, the results of which would make the massive inflation in drug prices which followed the Medicare Prescription Drug fiasco appeal trivial?
- - Peddle the bill to the public by holding out promises, perhaps, of federal vouchers, even though such a voucherized system would allow a future right wing Congress or administration to easily freeze the funding of vouchers and leave individual citizens with the burden of paying for the unfunded insurance mandate. (with much less political difficulty than they could, for example, renege on paying the bills submitted by providers under traditional Medicare, or any other public system)?
- - Fail to confront the fundamental inflationary forces of (a.) uncontrolled "administrative" costs, including executive compensation in the insurance industry, (b) inefficient health resource allocation, (c) unnecessary defensive medicine?
- - Kill, once and for all, the chance of EVER enacting an affordable, comprehensive Single Payer healthcare system, and finally achieving what the reactionary opponents of Medicare were unable to stop when Medicare was passed in 1965?
Could even the most malignant Republican administration have formulated and PASSED a "reform" with the above elements?
Is it conceivable that our Democratic leaders will advance, and possibly pass, in the name of "reform", a bill which might accomplish much of this agenda?
Is it significant that our administration has hired a well-connected "White House adviser" who explicitly advocates NOT ONLY the elimination of a public option (such as the right for younger Americans to opt in to Medicare), but actually phasing in a PRIVATIZATION of Medicare?
Are those of us who are becoming disillusioned simply lacking sufficient faith?
after which some stupid comment by Harold Dean or Dean Howard or whatever his name is
It's the usual primitive bitchery that they're not going to get something for nothing.
ThomCat (1000+ posts) Sun May-17-09 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. All of the signs so far say that we're getting screwed again.
Most of the political forces are lining up to feed us to the insurance companies. Unfortunately, Obama seems to be lining up with the insurance companies too, Talking about helping us but setting things in motion to do less than what people expect.
The white house web site talks about slowing the rate of cost increase, not about lowering the cost of health care. So the cost of health care will still go up under their plans, just not quite as fast as it does now. How does that help people who already can't afford health care?
Obama is excluding single payer from even being discussed or considered, and so is the rest of our party leadership.
Universal Insurance is being discussed instead of Universal Health Care. But Universal Insurance means that everyone must Pay for insurance. There is no guarantee that the copays or deductibles are low enough to make the insurance useful. Most people may end up with insurance they pay for but then can't afford to use. There is no guarantee that the insurance will provide adequate or complete coverage. People will still have to worry about insurance companies denying and delaying claims, and not covering certain procedures or medications. The only ones who are sure to benefit from universal insurance are the insurance companies.
Even the so called "public option" that is being hinted at is sounding like a gift to insurance companies, because the word is that the the government would outsource this public option to insurance companies to run. Even if you choose this public option you would still be dealing with a private insurance company running and profiting from the public plan.
We all need to shout loudly about what we want and need, or it's guaranteed that we're going to get screwed. The insurance companies are already working hard to get what they want, and politicians are listening.
undergroundpanther (1000+ posts) Mon May-18-09 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
40. I'm scared of it
Privatization leads to misery for most riches for a few off our misery.
I am tired of that sour old shit of privatizing,I don't think corporations should have any rights or person hood.I wish corporations that put profits over life were shut down and the Ceo's and executive boards got kicked into the gutters,locked up and were hated,all of 'em.
And the wealth confiscated from the pigs was put into the people's service, no republicans could touch it,no military, no corporate,no religions,and no skimming off the top by ANY politician or rich person.Privatization is a failure because private run anything becomes for profit.Profit,getting something more for nothing more is theft and it has to DIE.
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undergroundpanther (1000+ posts) Mon May-18-09 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
40. .....Profit,getting something more for nothing more is theft and it has to DIE.
Says the woman who collects disability checks.
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Says the woman who disability checks.
Woman? I think the jury is still out on that one. :lmao:
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Option 1 for me. UGPs interminable rants are not entertaining in and of themselves (To my eye, others may disagree), so I prefer to have some general idea on the thread's subject. UGP isn't the OP and merely drops in to lament the unfairness of reality, unless one is just following UGP for the sake of laughing at said pathetic rants wherever they appear, the title "Subway cat scared of it" doesn't actually suggest a reason to open the thread and read further.
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Hey DUmmies, intelligent people have been saying all along that ANY government run health care system will be worse than what we have now. :hammer:
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- - Take away the tax free status of health insurance benefits?
I thought that one was Obama's idea?
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And the wealth confiscated from the pigs was put into the people's service, no republicans could touch it,no military, no corporate,no religions,and no skimming off the top by ANY politician or rich person.Privatization is a failure because private run anything becomes for profit.Profit,getting something more for nothing more is theft and it has to DIE.
DUmmy UGP is so deranged she(?) is even recognized as such by fellow inmates of the DUmp asylum. But here, in one poorly written, ungrammatical, unpunctuated paragraph, she(?) accurately describes the political and economic philosophy of the DUmp, and of the societal dregs who form the base of the democrat party. The fact that it's nonsensical has not prevented adherence to it by millions, and the tragic result of the 2008 elections.
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Option 1 for me. UGPs interminable rants are not entertaining in and of themselves (To my eye, others may disagree), so I prefer to have some general idea on the thread's subject. UGP isn't the OP and merely drops in to lament the unfairness of reality, unless one is just following UGP for the sake of laughing at said pathetic rants wherever they appear, the title "Subway cat scared of it" doesn't actually suggest a reason to open the thread and read further.
Uh huh.
Some primitives get old after a while--in fact some primitives get old after a very few minutes.
That's why I'm flailing around at the moment, trying this-and-that, so as to devise a new posting strategy, different from what I've been doing. Everything's all muddled up when it comes to what I post here.
For the longest time I had the same pattern, but I've reviewed my past posting, and noticed lately it's been rather variable in quality, some really good primitive bonfires and some really lousy ones.
Which of course is symptomatic of someone tired of a certain routine, and wishing to go another direction, but at the time isn't quite sure which direction.
Or it could be Primitive Fatigue.
I'm sure sooner or later it'll get evolved and refined.
Unlike the primitives, we change, generally for the better.
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I opted for the second one, if only because UP fits the definition of teh ghey.