The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: BannedFromDU on May 07, 2009, 10:35:52 PM
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Thu May-07-09 11:50 PM
Original message
I have often referred to DU as my home - well I need some help
from my family tonight. My grandson has just become a father for the second time and the mother of his children in seriously addicted to pain killers and probably meth also. Tonight the poor little tyke is in the hospital and they believe he is addicted to whatever drugs his mother was using. He weighed 6.8 and seemed healthy. He is about a week old.
Please teach me what to expect and what the outcome is, etc. I raised a daughter who is severely disabled with epilepsy and retardation and digestive problems but I know nothing about babies who are addicted to their mother's drugs. His mother and I have told them that we will help in anyway we can but at the moment it is up to the doctors.
Imagine if the name was Palin, Bush, Cheney, Romney, McCain... (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5613850&mesg_id=5613850)
THIS is why I get so pissed when they mock Republican "family values." This DUmmy has a seriously ****ed up, skanky, nasty, criminal family, and they want support and sympathy. Let's see if "jwirr" is any sort of hypocrite at all:
jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr-30-09 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. That should not surprise anyone. The fundies believe in double
predestination which claims that God did not die for all but only those He chooses to save - those he chooses to damn he did not die for. This is a totally false interpretation of the New Testament but then since they are so dumb about everything else why not the Bible? They cheapen His sacrifice.
Maybe you should be asking Him for guidance instead of people who think the drug your grandchild is addicted to should be legal, idiot. (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=5570108#5570281)
jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-11-09 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. Step up California. Be our test state and prove that the fears are
unwarranted and that the benefits are worth it. Call back you police force and just refuse to chase the "criminals" because you have more important real crimes to solve. Start regulating the sale and taxation of the locally grown product and end the drug wars in Mexico. Release offenders in jail for pot and save money on that aspect of this as well as court costs. We need one state to show what this really means.
Yeah, let's legalize drugs...it's not like anyone's infant grandchildren get exposed to them IN UTERO or anything. (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=5435969#5436074)
jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Jan-21-09 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
155. I muted him as my one act of protest today.
Too bad...sounds like Rick Warren could help your sick-assed family. (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4867863#4874822)
I hate DUmmies. I really do.
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On a thread about an addicted baby they still wish for legalization of a way to escape from productive society.
Sick just isn`t the word for it. :censored:
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How in the hell can anyone not see the logic in this? Oh, that's right, we're talking liberals aren't we?
C'mon Armageddon! At least we could be rid of these blights on humanity!
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How in the hell can anyone not see the logic in this? Oh, that's right, we're talking liberals aren't we?
C'mon Armageddon! At least we could be rid of these blights on humanity!
You have no idea how many times in any given day I have to fight to keep things like that out of my communications with the Almighty. He may agree that they're friggin' idiots, and he may shake his head in absolute wonder at the shit they will pull, but for some reason I'll never understand (perhaps that's why HE is the savior and I am not) he still loves his little DUmmy creations.
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You have no idea how many times in any given day I have to fight to keep things like that out of my communications with the Almighty. He may agree that they're friggin' idiots, and he may shake his head in absolute wonder at the shit they will pull, but for some reason I'll never understand (perhaps that's why HE is the savior and I am not) He still loves his little DUmmy creations.
He must allow evil to exist, so that we may know what is good...
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr-30-09 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. That should not surprise anyone. The fundies believe in double
predestination which claims that God did not die for all but only those He chooses to save - those he chooses to damn he did not die for. This is a totally false interpretation of the New Testament but then since they are so dumb about everything else why not the Bible? They cheapen His sacrifice.
Just read that quote in depth again and have to say I have never heard anyone say they believed such nonsense.
Has anyone?
Jesus died for everyone but He also has allowed us to choose whether to accept or reject His sacrifice.
He knows who will and who won`t but the offer is there for every human.
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Oh my.
This is very telling, and exemplifies what's wrong with the primitives, and their attitude about what "medical care" should be.
.....it is up to the doctors.
Physicians are only "assistants," "tools," in medical care; it's the responsibility of the individual to do most of the work.
If grandmother and mother don't view themselves as the single most important force in restoring the infant to health, well then, God have mercy on the hapless infant.
Damn.
The primitives are really good at destroying people and things.....but then they expect "someone else" to rebuild, without any cooperation from them.
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Just read that quote in depth again and have to say I have never heard anyone say they believed such nonsense.
Has anyone?
Jesus died for everyone but He also has allowed us to choose whether to accept or reject His sacrifice.
He knows who will and who won`t but the offer is there for every human.
I have. There are some Calvinists who believe that God predetermined which individuals would be saved and who wouldn't, and if you're one of them there's nothing you can do to lose your salvation, and if you weren't chosen there's nothing you can do to change God's mind and become chosen. From that viewpoint, then Jesus only died for those who were already chosen.
This verse says differently.
II Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
What good would it do to "come to repentance" if you weren't one of the chosen? That would make God a respecter of persons when, in fact, He is "not willing that any should perish."
If someone comes to me claiming to be a Christian and says something that's wrong, that doesn't make God wrong, it makes that person wrong. But sounds like this primitives just wants to lump "fundies" into one box for his own self-righteous purpose.
I do not want to turn this into church chat. This was just to answer your question.
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I have. There are some Calvinists who believe that God predetermined which individuals would be saved and who wouldn't, and if you're one of them there's nothing you can do to lose your salvation, and if you weren't chosen there's nothing you can do to change God's mind and become chosen. From that viewpoint, then Jesus only died for those who were already chosen.
This verse says differently.
What good would it do to "come to repentance" if you weren't one of the chosen? That would make God a respecter of persons when, in fact, He is "not willing that any should perish."
If someone comes to me claiming to be a Christian and says something that's wrong, that doesn't make God wrong, it makes that person wrong. But sounds like this primitives just wants to lump "fundies" into one box for his own self-righteous purpose.
I do not want to turn this into church chat. This was just to answer your question.
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I don't want to change this into a church chat, either.
However, the Bible does teach predestination. Consider: "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons..." (Ephesians 1:4-5, NIV). "Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, 'The older will serve the younger.' Just as it is written: 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'" (Romans 9:10-13).
You have misinterpreted II Peter 3:9. The "all" is all the elect, not all human beings without exception. Peter is addressing his remarks to Christians, not everyone.
This does not negate human responsibility. Men have the duty to trust in God, and the offer of eternal life, if they do so. But God is sovereign.
Calvinism is correct. (By the way, Augustine taught the same thing.)
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You have no idea how many times in any given day I have to fight to keep things like that out of my communications with the Almighty. He may agree that they're friggin' idiots, and he may shake his head in absolute wonder at the shit they will pull, but for some reason I'll never understand (perhaps that's why HE is the savior and I am not) he still loves his little DUmmy creations.
I fully believe that God loves all of us and is saddened when we stray from him. It is us that stray from God, not God that strays from us. Additionally, I believe that sin does not have a graduated scale. Sin is sin and since God is perfect, it is sin that builds a barrier between us and God.
From what I have been taught, Jesus died for EVERYONE and their sins. All we have to do is truly believe that it is only through Jesus can we walk the path to God.
With the death of Jesus, God tore the temple curtain, top to bottom. This symbolizes that God gave mankind a new covenant and removed the separation between God and mankind.
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At least we could be rid of these blights on humanity!
See, and this is why I am very much for the legalization of drugs. Not for the tax money (which would be substantial) but because of the fact that these morons would kill themselves off! I see it as a win-win. :naughty:
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See, and this is why I am very much for the legalization of drugs. Not for the tax money (which would be substantial) but because of the fact that these morons would kill themselves off! I see it as a win-win. :naughty:
Some of us loved some of "these morons". My sister was one. She died from complications to her addiction nine years ago at the age of 31 and left behind a 2-year old son. You'd do well to temper your comments.
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Some of us loved some of "these morons". My sister was one. She died from complications to her addiction nine years ago at the age of 31 and left behind a 2-year old son. You'd do well to temper your comments.
I'm very sorry for your loss, but I stand by what I said.
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I don't want to change this into a church chat, either.
However, the Bible does teach predestination. Consider: "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons..." (Ephesians 1:4-5, NIV). "Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, 'The older will serve the younger.' Just as it is written: 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'" (Romans 9:10-13).
You have misinterpreted II Peter 3:9. The "all" is all the elect, not all human beings without exception. Peter is addressing his remarks to Christians, not everyone.
This does not negate human responsibility. Men have the duty to trust in God, and the offer of eternal life, if they do so. But God is sovereign.
Calvinism is correct. (By the way, Augustine taught the same thing.)
I haven't found any scriptural evidence to support Calvanism nor the basic tenent of "Once saved, always saved," also sometimes expressed as once God has decided you're saved then there's nothing you can ever do to not be saved. God did predestine that the elect were the one's who would be saved (the elect being those who have heard God's Word and decided of their own free-will to be an obedient Christian), but where Calvin departed was in saying that the elect had no choice in the matter. I've had many Calvinists explain it this way to me: God went through the list of all who would ever be alive on the earth and decided who would be saved and who wouldn't before they were even born, and once the decision was made, those whom God chose couldn't refuse it, and those whom God rejected couldn't ever find favor with God no matter what they did. If God is not a God that desires everyone on the planet earth to be obedient to Him and submit themselves to His Will ("all should come to repentance") in order to be saved, He certainly couldn't be called "loving." To say that the individuals God predetermined before the foundation of the world were the only one's who could be saved, and that they have no choice in the matter and they're saved whether they want to be or not (and vice versa, those who are lost are lost whether they want to be or not), completely elimitates the free-will of the individual to either choose or reject God, which makes God a respecter of persons.
If you wish to discuss it further, please PM me and we'll talk privately. I only did this to clarify in public where we differ.
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Oh my.
This is very telling, and exemplifies what's wrong with the primitives, and their attitude about what "medical care" should be.
Physicians are only "assistants," "tools," in medical care; it's the responsibility of the individual to do most of the work.
If grandmother and mother don't view themselves as the single most important force in restoring the infant to health, well then, God have mercy on the hapless infant.
Damn.
The primitives are really good at destroying people and things.....but then they expect "someone else" to rebuild, without any cooperation from them.
That's good sir, very good. Spot on.
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The only prob I have with everyone can be saved, either now or later is: I would like to believe a child molester or murder, even after he has "found" salvation, should still go to hell!
I hate the idea that such individuals can commit such heinous crimes, yet be forgiven on a technicality.
Perhaps God has another plan. Which is probably why I'm not him!
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The only prob I have with everyone can be saved, either now or later is: I would like to believe a child molester or murder, even after he has "found" salvation, should still go to hell!
I hate the idea that such individuals can commit such heinous crimes, yet be forgiven on a technicality.
Perhaps God has another plan. Which is probably why I'm not him!
A natural reaction, I understand.
The Apostle Paul was named Saul, and he presecuted Christians before he became one himself. That's the beauty of repentence and forgiveness. God wipes the slate clean and you start over
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I haven't found any scriptural evidence to support Calvanism nor the basic tenent of "Once saved, always saved," also sometimes expressed as once God has decided you're saved then there's nothing you can ever do to not be saved. God did predestine that the elect were the one's who would be saved (the elect being those who have heard God's Word and decided of their own free-will to be an obedient Christian), but where Calvin departed was in saying that the elect had no choice in the matter. I've had many Calvinists explain it this way to me: God went through the list of all who would ever be alive on the earth and decided who would be saved and who wouldn't before they were even born, and once the decision was made, those whom God chose couldn't refuse it, and those whom God rejected couldn't ever find favor with God no matter what they did. If God is not a God that desires everyone on the planet earth to be obedient to Him and submit themselves to His Will ("all should come to repentance") in order to be saved, He certainly couldn't be called "loving." To say that the individuals God predetermined before the foundation of the world were the only one's who could be saved, and that they have no choice in the matter and they're saved whether they want to be or not (and vice versa, those who are lost are lost whether they want to be or not), completely elimitates the free-will of the individual to either choose or reject God, which makes God a respecter of persons.
If you wish to discuss it further, please PM me and we'll talk privately. I only did this to clarify in public where we differ.
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Don't forget, God lives in all times. He knew exactly what every person would do, and what choices each would make, before He started "Time." He knew each and every "predestined" person would make that choice, when the choice would be made, and every sin that He would forgive. He has known every person, saved and unsaved, eternally, but that knowledge included our free will, not excluded it. It is a fact, though, that nothing a human can do will change their salvation. If we had any hand in the actual salvation, it would amount to "works." Therefore, as He has always known our choice, we are predestined and can't lose our salvation. If we could lose it, we could earn it, and we know that is impossible.
(It is a nice non-Catch 22, huh?)
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A natural reaction, I understand.
The Apostle Paul was named Saul, and he persecuted Christians before he became one himself. That's the beauty of repentance and forgiveness. God wipes the slate clean and you start over
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I dunno. I guess God will know whether or not they are earnest with their sudden new perspective, but there are some crimes no amount of kissin' ass should be acknowledged.
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I dunno. I guess God will know whether or not they are earnest with their sudden new perspective, but there are some crimes no amount of kissin' ass should be acknowledged.
Um...not really part of the deal. Srsly.
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Um...not really part of the deal. Srsly.
Heh, heh......Touche! Being vulgar, I'm afaraid, is one of my traits.
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I haven't found any scriptural evidence to support Calvanism nor the basic tenent of "Once saved, always saved," also sometimes expressed as once God has decided you're saved then there's nothing you can ever do to not be saved. God did predestine that the elect were the one's who would be saved (the elect being those who have heard God's Word and decided of their own free-will to be an obedient Christian), but where Calvin departed was in saying that the elect had no choice in the matter. I've had many Calvinists explain it this way to me: God went through the list of all who would ever be alive on the earth and decided who would be saved and who wouldn't before they were even born, and once the decision was made, those whom God chose couldn't refuse it, and those whom God rejected couldn't ever find favor with God no matter what they did. If God is not a God that desires everyone on the planet earth to be obedient to Him and submit themselves to His Will ("all should come to repentance") in order to be saved, He certainly couldn't be called "loving." To say that the individuals God predetermined before the foundation of the world were the only one's who could be saved, and that they have no choice in the matter and they're saved whether they want to be or not (and vice versa, those who are lost are lost whether they want to be or not), completely elimitates the free-will of the individual to either choose or reject God, which makes God a respecter of persons.
I perceive you do not want to continue this much longer, and I respect that. So I will be brief, and make this my last word (at least in here) on the subject.
I agree that anyone who trusts in Christ has eternal life.
The problem is simply this: Sin has darkened hearts so that no one, apart from God's grace, is able to believe the gospel. Free will, in the sense most people use the term, does not exist. (Martin Luther wrote a great gook on the subject, entitled, "The Bondage of the Will".) People are responsible for their own actions, but Paul was right when he wrote that "the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God" (Romans 8:7-8). We are spiritually dead, unless God makes us alive (Ephesians 2:1-5); as such, we cannot believe in Christ. 2 Corinthians 4:4 supports this, because that verse says unbelievers "cannot see the light of the gospel." Note: the problem is not simply that they will not see the gospel, but rather that they cannot see it. They need grace before they can even believe the gospel.
For this reason, the Bible says saving faith is a gift of God (Philippians 1:29). Jesus said the act of being born again is accomplished by the Holy Spirit, not by human effort (John 3:5-8). Lydia's heart was opened by the Lord Himself, not any mere human being, according to Acts 16:14. Likewise, repentance, apart from which anyone will perish (Luke 13:3,5), is also a gift of God (Acts 11:18, 2 Timothy 2:25). Since both faith and repentance are gifts of God, He gives them to whoever He wants to give them to, and withholds them from whoever He wants to withhold them from. In the area of salvation, just like everywhere else, God is sovereign. "Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him" (Psalm 115:3). And if God is sovereign, man is not. God controls everything.
The Bible never teaches that the elect are "those who have heard God's Word and decided of their own free-will to be" obedient Christians.
Is God a respecter of persons? No. At the judgment, God will judge righteously. One standard will apply to everyone. But God loves those He chooses to love; by His grace, He makes them able to stand at the judgment. He passes others by. That is Paul's point in Romans 9:10-13: "Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, 'The older will serve the younger.' Just as it is written: 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'" Did God love Esau as much as He loved Jacob? The answer is obvious. God is under no obligation to do anything for anybody, but He chooses to love some and to save those He loves.
You seem to think that the perseverance of the saints (what some people regretably call eternal security, or "once saved, always saved") is not taught in the Bible. But Jesus said, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand" (John 10:28-29). How long does this eternal life last? Eternally. Not simply until we sin again. Jesus said "they shall never perish."
Calvinism is simply what the Bible teaches.
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I perceive you do not want to continue this much longer, and I respect that. So I will be brief, and make this my last word (at least in here) on the subject.
I agree that anyone who trusts in Christ has eternal life.
The problem is simply this: Sin has darkened hearts so that no one, apart from God's grace, is able to believe the gospel. Free will, in the sense most people use the term, does not exist. (Martin Luther wrote a great gook on the subject, entitled, "The Bondage of the Will".) People are responsible for their own actions, but Paul was right when he wrote that "the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God" (Romans 8:7-8). We are spiritually dead, unless and until God makes us alive (Ephesians 2:1-5); as such, we cannot believe in Christ. 2 Corinthians 4:4 supports this, because that verse says unbelievers "cannot see the light of the gospel." Note: the problem is not simply that they will not see the gospel, but rather that they cannot see it. They need grace before they can even believe the gospel.
For this reason, the Bible says saving faith is a gift of God (Philippians 1:29). Jesus said the act of being born again is accomplished by the Holy Spirit, not by human effort (John 3:5-8). Lydia's heart was opened by the Lord Himself, not any mere human being, according to Acts 16:14. Likewise, repentance, apart from which anyone will perish (Luke 13:3,5), is also a gift of God (Acts 11:18, 2 Timothy 2:25). Since both faith and repentance are gifts of God, He gives them to whoever He wants to give them to, and withholds them from whoever He wants to withhold them from. In the area of salvation, just like everywhere else, God is sovereign. "Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him" (Psalm 115:3). And if God is sovereign, man is not. God controls everything.
The Bible never teaches that the elect are "those who have heard God's Word and decided of their own free-will to be" obedient Christians.
Is God a respecter of persons? No. At the judgment, God will judge righteously. One standard will apply to everyone. But God loves those He chooses to love; by His grace, He makes them able to stand at the judgment. He passes others by. That is Paul's point in Romans 9:10-13: "Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, 'The older will serve the younger.' Just as it is written: 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'" Did God love Esau as much as He loved Jacob? The answer is obvious. God is under no obligation to do anything for anybody, but He chooses to save some.
You seem to think that the perseverance of the saints (what some people regretably call eternal security, or "once saved, always saved") is not taught in the Bible. But Jesus said, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand" (John 10:28-29). How long does this eternal life last? Eternally. Not simply until we sin again. Jesus said "they shall never perish."
Calvinism is simply what the Bible teaches.
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My grandson has just become a father for the second time and the mother of his children in seriously addicted to pain killers and probably meth also. Tonight the poor little tyke is in the hospital and they believe he is addicted to whatever drugs his mother was using. He weighed 6.8 and seemed healthy. He is about a week old.
Then you need to do what you can to help your grandson AND your great-grandchildren get as far away from that woman as possible.
I speak from experience on this one.
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I perceive you do not want to continue this much longer, and I respect that. So I will be brief, and make this my last word (at least in here) on the subject.
I agree that anyone who trusts in Christ has eternal life.
The problem is simply this: Sin has darkened hearts so that no one, apart from God's grace, is able to believe the gospel. Free will, in the sense most people use the term, does not exist. (Martin Luther wrote a great gook on the subject, entitled, "The Bondage of the Will".) People are responsible for their own actions, but Paul was right when he wrote that "the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God" (Romans 8:7-8). We are spiritually dead, unless God makes us alive (Ephesians 2:1-5); as such, we cannot believe in Christ. 2 Corinthians 4:4 supports this, because that verse says unbelievers "cannot see the light of the gospel." Note: the problem is not simply that they will not see the gospel, but rather that they cannot see it. They need grace before they can even believe the gospel.
For this reason, the Bible says saving faith is a gift of God (Philippians 1:29). Jesus said the act of being born again is accomplished by the Holy Spirit, not by human effort (John 3:5-8). Lydia's heart was opened by the Lord Himself, not any mere human being, according to Acts 16:14. Likewise, repentance, apart from which anyone will perish (Luke 13:3,5), is also a gift of God (Acts 11:18, 2 Timothy 2:25). Since both faith and repentance are gifts of God, He gives them to whoever He wants to give them to, and withholds them from whoever He wants to withhold them from. In the area of salvation, just like everywhere else, God is sovereign. "Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him" (Psalm 115:3). And if God is sovereign, man is not. God controls everything.
The Bible never teaches that the elect are "those who have heard God's Word and decided of their own free-will to be" obedient Christians.
Is God a respecter of persons? No. At the judgment, God will judge righteously. One standard will apply to everyone. But God loves those He chooses to love; by His grace, He makes them able to stand at the judgment. He passes others by. That is Paul's point in Romans 9:10-13: "Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, 'The older will serve the younger.' Just as it is written: 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'" Did God love Esau as much as He loved Jacob? The answer is obvious. God is under no obligation to do anything for anybody, but He chooses to love some and to save those He loves.
You seem to think that the perseverance of the saints (what some people regretably call eternal security, or "once saved, always saved") is not taught in the Bible. But Jesus said, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand" (John 10:28-29). How long does this eternal life last? Eternally. Not simply until we sin again. Jesus said "they shall never perish."
Calvinism is simply what the Bible teaches.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
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I sort of started this side track even though that wasn`t the intent,
It is easy to reconcile in my mind in believing that God being omniscient is aware from all eternity of who will and who won`t accept the work of the cross.
That doesn`t mean He condemned anyone beforehand,just that He knows what decisions each one will make.
If personal Salvation was determined on Gods part then there would have been no need for His sacrifice on the cross...God could simply redeem those He chose and let the rest languish.
He didn`t do that though,He set up a choice for humans to redeem themselves or elect not to.
The fact that he already knows who will and who won`t is irrelevant to that...it is still our individual choices and perhaps that makes it more meaningful.
My views and perhaps this is all more fitting for a thread in the religion forum here.
Sorry to have accidently hijacked this one.
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I sort of started this side track even though that wasn`t the intent,...
My views and perhaps this is all more fitting for a thread in the religion forum here.
Sorry to have accidently hijacked this one.
No big deal.
I hope my answer helped. Sounds like the primitive has run into some of those whom I have also encountered and decided to apply a broad-brush in order to place themselves on a pedestal. Primitives are always looking for ways to group people they don't like into the same box, that being the path of least resistance and simpleminded thing to do.
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Primitives are always looking for ways to group people they don't like into the same box.....
Oh yes, another prominent characteristic of the primitives.
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2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
That's great verse. But have you considered what it really means?
You have made the mistake of thinking that "any" means any human being who has ever lived or whoever will live in the future. And you have made the mistake of thinking that "all" means everyone who has ever lived or whoever will live. If God intended to bring everyone to repentance, God is a massive failure. But, instead, the Bible teaches that God is infinite in power and in control of everything.
Who is Peter addressing? Christians. Who is the "us" in the verse? Christians. Who is God longsuffering toward? His elect. God is not willing that "any" of his elect should perish. He wants "all" His elect to "come to repentance." And since this repentance is a gift of God (Acts 11:18), God achieves what God desires. (He always does!)