The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: thundley4 on April 30, 2009, 09:17:55 AM
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(http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Apr/Week4/15272564.jpg)
"Chrysler, America's third largest car maker, had until the end of Thursday to stave off collapse.
The White House said the firm would proceed with chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
It is still seeking a deal with Fiat to secure its future and in doing so create the world's fifth largest car maker.
The US Treasury had been in tense negotiations with a small group of hedge funds to wash out the company's remaining debt and facilitate an alliance with Fiat, a step considered essential to Chrysler's survival.
"I think there is reasonable optimism that (a deal between Fiat and Chrysler) can be closed with an announcement perhaps even by President (Barack) Obama today," Italian Industry Minister Claudio Scajola told Italian television." Link (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/US-Car-Giant-Chrysler-Files-For-Bankruptcy/Article/200904415272494?lpos=Business_News_Your_Way_Region_9&lid=NewsYourWay_ARTICLE_15272494_US_Car_Giant_Chrysler_Files_For_Bankruptcy)
What took so long? Oh that's right, 0Bama meddling in private business.
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(http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Apr/Week4/15272564.jpg)
What took so long? Oh that's right, 0Bama meddling in private business.
It takes time to sell off Americas assets to the lowest bidding socialist fury-ners.
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Now if Fiat can just break the Union.......they might have a chance.................................but I doubt it.
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Now if Fiat can just break the Union.......they might have a chance.................................but I doubt it.
I think we should have just let the Big 3 file bankruptcy and if their assets had to be sold off, so be it. I think realistically, foreign car makers would have been likely to by the factories and reopen them for their own brands. Many of the former employees would have been hired, most likely. Yeah, it would have killed the UAW, but is that such a bad thing?
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Should have happened a year and billions of dollars ago. ::)
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:censored: what an atrocity!
Obama just announced he is PLEASED by this announcement and for Chrysler owners not to worry, their warranties are backed by the US government!!
He is THRILLED big business is going bankrupt and taxpayers are now paying for warranties!!! OMG..this bad dream is never going to end.
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:censored: what an atrocity!
Obama just announced he is PLEASED by this announcement and for Chrysler owners not to worry, their warranties are backed by the US government!!
He is THRILLED big business is going bankrupt and taxpayers are now paying for warranties!!! OMG..this bad dream is never going to end.
Yeah, just saw that...made me want to puke.
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I think we should have just let the Big 3 file bankruptcy and if their assets had to be sold off, so be it. I think realistically, foreign car makers would have been likely to by the factories and reopen them for their own brands. Many of the former employees would have been hired, most likely. Yeah, it would have killed the UAW, but is that such a bad thing?
Hi,
I wish that Chrysler and GM had both filed for bankruptcy also. Actually the chance of the assets being sold off are really slim. This is a perfect analogy to the airline industry. As long as the US carriers were regulated, the unions would negotiate a contract with one airline, the others would follow suit, they they would go to the government and file to increase fares.....and then again they would all do the same. I flew 40+ weeks a year in those times and the fares charged by all the airlines were the same, all the planes were half full, and they still had money left over to make a profit.
When the airlines were deregulated all hell broke loose. Non-union airlines paid less money, but actually more important, one certified A&P mechanic could perform several functions; whereas union shops would not allow that so it might take 3-4 mechanics to do the same thing. Well the non union (peoples express, Southwest) could operate cheaper, so they lowered their fares and garnered a huge market share. The union airlines, because of the union contracts, could no longer compete.
One by one, the union carriers filed bankruptcy. They then re-negotiated with the unions and most of them re-emerged from bankruptcy much leaner. The public benefited from much lower air fares and competition.
Basically the auto industry is the same thing. When GM, Ford and Chrysler had 99% of the US market, one would negotiate with the union and the other two would follow, then they would price their products accordingly and it would be a level playing field. Along came foreign competition, and lower wages and they had competition that had a huge competitive advantage. I understand a car coming out of Detroit has $2700 in cost for union wages, benefits and retirement benefits; whereas a Japanese car has only $700 per vehicle. That is why the foreign competition can make better quality vehicles and still price them cheaper, or at least low enough to gain a lot of market share.
Now if the damn government had not stepped in we would see the same thing happen to the auto makers as did the airlines. They would file for bankruptcy, they would then re-negotiate with the unions, they would come back much leaner and we would have better quality American made autos at less cost.
Instead, now the government bails out the automakers, screws the stockholders and bondholders and gives the union a huge disproportionate share of the common stock. BASICALLY NOW, THE INMATES WILL BE IN CHARGE OF THE ASYLUM. They will produce garbage, priced way too high, and the government will pass laws and regulations to force the American public to buy their garbage. All this is done of course for the perpuation of the democratic party pandering to the union vote.
I am going to resist buying any American car as long as I can. The workers, public and ownership would have been better off if the damn government had just let the inevitable take it's course. Unions cannot push wages so far out of proportion long and the cycle will correct it.
Gonna get worse before it gets better. Only good thing is if Chrysler goes away and then Ford and GM can pick up some of their market. Their is much to be said for one company going under so the remainder can survive.
regards,
5412
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5412,
Very well said!..........with virtually no accountability in the management of the firm, the UAW can now go whining to the principal shareholder, Uncle Sam, and seek import quotas, a level playing field against non-union contracts, and absolutely shitty products. Like you, I will not "Buy American" until the advent of common sense returns to American auto manufacturers.
I wonder what the UAW rank and file think of having their benefit rich health and pension trust go through bankruptcy reorganization? Is this what they elected the Union leadership to do?, to have pensions and benefits slashed in order to have more power and less benefits for their membership?
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The only issue I have is the "lower wages". For the most part it's not true. Unions love to tout the "lower wages" meme all the time. However what they don't mention is the wages for the non union workers are the same or very slightly lower than union wages if you take out the union dues.
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:censored: what an atrocity!
Obama just announced he is PLEASED by this announcement and for Chrysler owners not to worry, their warranties are backed by the US government!!
He is THRILLED big business is going bankrupt and taxpayers are now paying for warranties!!! OMG..this bad dream is never going to end.
Well, really, what was he going to say? Prolly nothing like "Apparently the hedge funds that own the damn' thing weren't too excited with the union that drove it under having a 55% share in the company, so the whole deal went to shit, I guess I really overplayed my hand on that one!"
:rotf:
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I wonder what the UAW rank and file think of having their benefit rich health and pension trust go through bankruptcy reorganization?
Do you really believe that having health insurance and pensions are a "rich benefit"? I'm not quite following what you meant, please elaborate if you don't mind.
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I understand a car coming out of Detroit has $2700 in cost for union wages, benefits and retirement benefits; whereas a Japanese car has only $700 per vehicle. That is why the foreign competition can make better quality vehicles and still price them cheaper, or at least low enough to gain a lot of market share.
This really is an unfair comparison, although it is based in reality. The $2000 difference stems from a legacy that the big three had of continually postponing the funding of their retiree pension and health care funds. The cost would not be there, had they been funding them all along, so that they'd be self-sustaining. The actual "current" cost of workers wages, including benefits, between the domestic and Japanese manufacturers are essentially at par.
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This really is an unfair comparison, although it is based in reality. The $2000 difference stems from a legacy that the big three had of continually postponing the funding of their retiree pension and health care funds. The cost would not be there, had they been funding them all along, so that they'd be self-sustaining. The actual "current" cost of workers wages, including benefits, between the domestic and Japanese manufacturers are essentially at par.
Hi,
If that is true then the auto makers have been overstating their profits for the years they underfunded the pension programs. To me it is like one of those long balloons partially filled with water, squeeze it and it comes out somewhere else. If their cost disadvantage today is a result of what you said, then they had a cost advantage years ago which was not realistic either. Bottom line is you cannot have union workers paid to not work, wages which are unrealistically hign in the world market and expect to compete in that same market.
The sad truth is simple. What we all earn in wages is based on the law of supply and demand. The labor unions have tried to control that just like OPEC tries to control the oil supply. Eventually some sanity should reign in the US and when we open up our reserves to drilling the supply from non-OPEC nations will swamp their current cartel. Same holds true for labor, the flood of millions of non-US workers who can do the same job for a whole lot less money is swamping the Detroit unions cartel. While I can empathize with them and their families, I can also blame the union leadership. Their position of continually demanding more and more has done nothing but hasten the movement of jobs offshore.
BO can nationalize the auto makers all he wants and give the majority of ownership to the unions but the only folks who will benefit is the union leaders. If a company is losing money they sure as heck will not pay dividends. The unions can own the companies all they want but if they cannot produce a quality automobile at a competitive price, there will be no jobs for anyone. Under the current structure that is almost impossible for them to do which is why the auto industry is in bankruptcy to begin with.
regards,
5412
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I know of no US company that allows you to work 40 hours per week and still collect overtime. For example, you call in sick, miss that day, work on the weekend and collect overtime pay. That is insane.
Retiree pay and health insurance benefits are one of the reasons that the US automakers are at such a large cost disadvantage. Union work rules are another.
The Unions will own 55% of Chrysler, Fiat will own 20 to 35% and the government the rest. Unless the union is busted, Chrysler will become a money pit and taxpayers will be on the hook for billions more. This dog needs to die. Let the Chinese come in and buy this company for 10 cents on the dollar, pump money into it and make it profitable with non union labor.
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I know of no US company that allows you to work 40 hours per week and still collect overtime. For example, you call in sick, miss that day, work on the weekend and collect overtime pay. That is insane.
Retiree pay and health insurance benefits are one of the reasons that the US automakers are at such a large cost disadvantage. Union work rules are another.
The Unions will own 55% of Chrysler, Fiat will own 20 to 35% and the government the rest. Unless the union is busted, Chrysler will become a money pit and taxpayers will be on the hook for billions more. This dog needs to die. Let the Chinese come in and buy this company for 10 cents on the dollar, pump money into it and make it profitable with non union labor.
I don't know about that. Many times I've worked less than my normal scheduled hours and had a lot of OT on the paycheck.
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I think we should have just let the Big 3 file bankruptcy and if their assets had to be sold off, so be it. I think realistically, foreign car makers would have been likely to by the factories and reopen them for their own brands. Many of the former employees would have been hired, most likely. Yeah, it would have killed the UAW, but is that such a bad thing?
Correct. It is my opinion GM & Chrysler should have filed bankruptcy months and billions of dollars ago. When they folded coming out, the Chinese would have been drooling at the thought of buying an American automaker or some other foreign country could have bought them. Also, they would be much better capitalized than Fiat who is not flush with money. In another year or two we will be seeing Chinese cars in this country. We already have the evil Asians and EU selling cars here so a Chinese company building American cars with non union labor would be better than this Obamination plan which is destined to failure unless the unions can be broken. :whatever: I can see that this merger is going to be another money pit with billions of our tax dollars pissed away to prop up this dog.