The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: asdf2231 on April 01, 2009, 07:32:40 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5367820
geegollygosh (26 posts) Wed Apr-01-09 02:32 AM
Original message
Why does rural America vote Republican?
I found all these quotes on the Democratic Underground boards. There were more, but I picked the 'best':
“Someone funnier than me once said that God points his tornadoes at trailer parks for a reason.”
“That's KKKentucky for you.”
“What backwoods trailer park?... Does the RNC "Beta Test" their talking points in?”
“52% of our inbred backwoods nation thinks Bush II will be "OUTSTANDING"“
“I have tried for years and years to talk reason to these backwoods hillbillies”
“It's always some toothless backwoods hick.”
“The republicans seem to attract the uneducated ignorant illiterate hicks, while the Democrats get the educated major city smart people. That is fact.”
“Talk about lowering the bar.. these people should be in trailor parks.”
And then people ask: Why do rural working class Americans vote Repub?
Discuss?
:popcorn:
Believing Is Art (707 posts) Wed Apr-01-09 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. I try to be nice to people with low post counts,
and this doesn't scream "troll," more like a loud whisper, but what's your agenda?
:whatever:
geegollygosh (26 posts) Wed Apr-01-09 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'm a troll in the sense that I'm a rural liberal who is sick of this kind of thing...
why shouldn't I say something?
TexasObserver (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-01-09 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Then you should know the right wing nature of rural areas better than most.
Edited on Wed Apr-01-09 03:09 AM by TexasObserver
I grew up in a rural area, and I often visit there. Those people cannot fathom why anyone would ever object to a prayer before the football game, a Christian prayer. They cannot fathom having a club at the high school for gay kids.
tavalon (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-01-09 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. It will go over a lot better once you have bonafides
Are you willing to put off your gratification for a while because we don't know you and you sound a lot more like a freeper who is trolling than you might after we've gotten to know you. After a few hundred posts, this will be more likely to spur some real conversation instead of pizza.
Jesus H.
geegollygosh (26 posts) Wed Apr-01-09 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. This is sort of a test of this board.
Edited on Wed Apr-01-09 02:49 AM by geegollygosh
if I was a 'freeper' I would just say so. Lately I've been really pissed off about this kind of thing coming from liberals, I want to hear what people on a self identified 'democratic' board think about it, since none of the liberals I know in person are comfortable discussing it.
In some ways I suppose it's trolling, but it's also a legitimate issue.
tavalon (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-01-09 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. It is actually a legitimate issue but we aren't going to play unless we know you
Once you've actually participated around here for a while, you'll get plenty who will happily discuss this issue but right now, it just looks like you are flame baiting. We aren't lockstep around here - just look around at the last few days, the circular firing squad is up and running. But, see, we aren't going to give someone with a freeperlike agenda ammunition to go back over to FR and laugh at us. It's childish and we don't care to do it outside of our own little land.
The reasons rural folks vote against their interests are very complex - see What's The Matter With Kansas. Certainly, people making fun of them (I was raised in the rural south and lived there until 3 years ago but I harbor no love for the rural south and have likely made some of those comments myself) doesn't help but it isn't the main or even one of the main motivators.
So asking why Liberals are such stuck up eletist bastards and using their OWN WORDS to illustrate is "Flamebait"? :mental:
auburnblu (393 posts) Wed Apr-01-09 03:30 AM
Original message
Just a bit smug aren't you
Edited on Wed Apr-01-09 03:32 AM by auburnblu
Respond to the issue. Not, "I'm superior, I have a lot of posts, therefore I set the rules." No wonder you have so many posts with such responses. If the original poster has 1 or 10,000 posts, who cares it is a valid point to raise. If it offends a few of the "I'm enlightened" crowd that is fantastic. I want every single "I'm enlightened" liberal exposed for the hateful frauds that they are. This is in response to post #20.
tavalon (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-01-09 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
49. Savvy
I've watched many a flame baiter do it just this way. I've also seen posters with a higher investment in our community bring up these same questions and get much more nuanced discussion.
murielm99 (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-01-09 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
29. All right. I am not going to dis you, because I am a rural liberal.
I know how difficult it is. I live in a very red county.
We do have some outstanding hardworking Democrats here. Some of them are farmers. Some of them are blue collar. Actually, I can't think of many limousine liberals here. The only limos are the ones people rent to get to the airport. Most of our local Democrats are working people.
It is true that most of the farmers here are republicans. But if you go to Minnesota, most of the farmers are Democrats.
Maybe it might be easier to talk about majorities and minorities. I have met some seemingly redneck types who are Democrats. What I try to do is convert people. The racists are hopeless. But some of the others can be appealed to on the basis of what we have in common. Republicans are losing their jobs and homes, too. They want insurance, and they care about their families. Look for the similarities and try to make them think. Don't get sidetracked by hot button issues.
Believing Is Art (707 posts) Wed Apr-01-09 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Well I grew up in "KKKentucky," myself
And to a large extent, it's true that many people in the southeast cling to guns, God, and/or commercialized patriotism. Maybe it should piss me off when people assume I'm conservative, dumb, and inbred because I'm from the south, but statistically, they'd be right - on the first part anyways. Though the quality of public education in Kentucky might give credence to the second assumption as well.
The negative stereotype rhetoric cuts both ways. The hillbilly, inbred stuff pisses off some liberals; yours is not the first post I've seen on the topic. No, liberals don't win any votes if this is how we characterize rural America, but conservatives don't win any votes by claiming anyone who doesn't agree with them lockstep is a pink gay Muslim atheist violent pansy.
geegollygosh (26 posts) Wed Apr-01-09 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. But doesn't the left pride itself on being more "open"?
Just because the right stereotypes others doesn't give us the 'right' too, at least not if anyone wants to actually get anything done.
Believing Is Art (707 posts) Wed Apr-01-09 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #17
34. "Open" to different lifestyles, religions, nationalities, etc.
The left, in general, does not have "you're with us or against us" mentality of the right when it comes to homosexuals, Muslims, atheist and so on. I'm not sure that's the same thing as open.
I also think there's a difference in what people say when joking and what they really believe. I know that's the case with me and some of my real life friends, but I can't speak for DU in general.
As I said elsewhere, I limit the rural jokes to situations where I think they'd be acceptable . . . which means it's usually among friends from rural places who make similar self-depreciating jokes. I may have slipped and made some on here, but I can't recall any. Many people find this an acceptable forum for such humor, and some disagree. *shrug*
As for anything getting done, convincing rural America to vote for democrats will take a lot more than a cease and desist on all hillbilly stereotypes. I tried in high school and was pretty much ostracized - and I never made one disparaging joke about rural America.
hfojvt (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-01-09 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
62. here's the deal
there are 43,806,520 or so posts that have been made on DU. You can cherry-pick 20 or so that are negative towards rural people and trailer parks and use that to 'prove' the rightwing talking point that "Democrats hate rural people" but it still comes across as somebody who is just trying to prove a rightwing talking point. Most of the people who do that are rightwingers.
Sure there might be coastal people here with contempt for "flyover country" maybe some big city folk here who think that rural areas (meaning any city with fewer than 250,000) are hopelessly backward and otherwise disgusting, but it's not universal among Democrats, some of whom happen to be in small towns. A few comments among millions do not prove that point.
*coughBULLSHITcoughcough*
TexasObserver (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-01-09 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
7. Because those comments you find offensive are often true.
Rural people tend to be much more closed minded about things more civilized people take for granted, such as gay rights or freedom from religion. Rural communities lack the diversity of experience and thought that exists in urban areas.
THAT is why rural areas go red. They are typically like the closed minded attitudes that the GOP espouses and symbolizes
geegollygosh (26 posts) Wed Apr-01-09 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Diversity of experience and thought?
I've lived in Chicago, also. I loved it. But don't tell me that urbanites and suburbanites are somehow free from prejudice, close mindedness. This post has proved to me that (among the people who have posted) there is absolutely no willingness to criticize internal bigotry within "progressives".
TexasObserver (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-01-09 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #31
41. Rural America votes RED because it is RED.
Edited on Wed Apr-01-09 03:28 AM by TexasObserver
You're delusional if you think it's because they have their feelings hurt that big city liberals say things about them.
Your outrage seems phony to me.
Believing Is Art (707 posts) Wed Apr-01-09 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #46
55. Hmm, actually it is the water.
Not from the tap, but glacial ice. The industrialized north paved the way for more urban areas while the agricultural south remained rural. That has been a huge cultural influence, one that has led to close-knit and religious communities in rural regions. It has its upsides - friendliness and hospitality, but its downsides are the reasons those areas remain red. The Republicans exploit this. They tell these rural Red voters that they are the real America, that they're good God-fearing patriots. Taxes and bogus wars don't matter when the party has won their hearts with the wedge issues and ego-petting.
I don't think anyone would argue that it helps when liberals make stereotyped jokes; it obviously doesn't. But it's not the main reason rural areas go red, and DU isn't trying to court rural Americans. It's not trying to court anyone.
You have every right to be upset at region-bashing humor. Some of it here is good-natured (or at least no malice intended), some if it isn't. I happen to be thick-skinned on this issue, but it's perfectly understandable that others wouldn't be. I'm admittedly thin-skinned on others and I tend to avoid responding on those subjects.
I agree that region-bashing is a bad idea when trying to convert voters. I don't see DU as a vehicle to change the minds of conservatives.
Heidi (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-01-09 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #58
68. Your accusations throughout this thread of widespread bigotry among progressives
Edited on Wed Apr-01-09 06:09 AM by Heidi
is reprehensible. You don't seem to want to truly discuss what you claim is a problem within the progressive movement; nor have you acknowledged that over more than 20 million DU posts since 2001, all you can offer as evidence of our wholesale bigotry is a handful of posts with no links.
:bs:
tavalon (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-01-09 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. You think you've learned that but what you've actually learned
is that we will only lay ourselves bare for our fellow patriots and we don't know that you actually are one. You are getting the cold shoulder of the low post count. If you're still here in a year or two and ask this same question, the same way, you'll get a whole different set of information. Rural folk are suspicious of outsiders until they get to know them. DUers are similar in that aspect.
"Fellow Patriots"?
It meanders on and on from there...
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Open" to different lifestyles, religions, nationalities, etc.
The left, in general, does not have "you're with us or against us" mentality of the right when it comes to homosexuals, Muslims, atheist and so on. I'm not sure that's the same thing as open.
Except if you are a Christian.
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It's kind of humorous. This geegollygosh posts some facts (aka truth) and many of the primitives immediately suggests that he/she is a troll. It's like they are saying: you're not lying so you must not be one of us. They are apparently too stupid to realize that when they label someone who is simply telling the truth a "troll" that they are inadvertently admitting that "real" DUers are liars.
It reminds me of frank's old saying that DUmmies lie all the time and it makes me wonder if DU holds the title to the highest percentage of liars on the web. Do any of you know of any other sites whose percentage of liars among the membership is higher than DU's?
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I have to say Tavalon is a certified asshole.
Damn the DUmmies really are dumb. The mirror is held up.........and they don't even know it.
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Irony--it goes good with ketchup.
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Irony--it goes good with ketchup.
I think the DUmbasses think that "irony" is the opposite of "wrinkly."
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It's kind of humorous. This geegollygosh posts some facts (aka truth) and many of the primitives immediately suggests that he/she is a troll. It's like they are saying: you're not lying so you must not be one of us. They are apparently too stupid to realize that when they label someone who is simply telling the truth a "troll" that they are inadvertently admitting that "real" DUers are liars.
It reminds me of frank's old saying that DUmmies lie all the time and it makes me wonder if DU holds the title to the highest percentage of liars on the web. Do any of you know of any other sites whose percentage of liars among the membership is higher than DU's?
ggg simply posts their own words and suddenly is called as troll
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geegollygosh (26 posts) Wed Apr-01-09 02:32 AM
Original message
Why does rural America vote Republican?
Because we're smart.
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Commonsense resides in the countryside.....stupidity is citywide.
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Well, I dunno.
I've lived in big cities--for two decades--and small places.
I never noticed city folk were any more brighter, any more sophisticated, any more cultured, than rural folk.
There are 14 adults (i.e., past 22 years of age) in this part of the county, the western half (there's considerably more people in the eastern half).
Thirteen of them, including myself, have at least one four-year college degree, and even one from Fordham and two from Harvard. The 14th one at least graduated from high school. The high-school graduation rate in this place is 100%. I haven't yet met one inhabitant of the county (population circa 6,000)--and I've been around since August 2001--who hasn't been to foreign countries. And it's very rare to find someone who hasn't lived in a big city for at least some years.
I dunno.
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Well, I dunno.
I've lived in big cities--for two decades--and small places.
I never noticed city folk were any more brighter, any more sophisticated, any more cultured, than rural folk.
There are 14 adults (i.e., past 22 years of age) in this part of the county, the western half (there's considerably more people in the eastern half).
Thirteen of them, including myself, have at least one four-year college degree, and even one from Fordham and two from Harvard. The 14th one at least graduated from high school. The high-school graduation rate in this place is 100%. I haven't yet met one inhabitant of the county (population circa 6,000)--and I've been around since August 2001--who hasn't been to foreign countries. And it's very rare to find someone who hasn't lived in a big city for at least some years.
I dunno.
it seems like people who went to college got dumber. they are more likely to believe humans caused global warming apparently. I hate liberal teachers and professors.
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Well at least us rural folk bathe whereas hippies tend to shun that kind of thing. I used to be a democrat but I grew up long before I moved here. I just didn't like the idea that constant anger seemed to be the norm. Didn't matter whether a D or an R was in the White House anger on the left is palpable, infectious, and sucks the joy right out of life. What in God's (or Gaia's, Satan's, wood elf's) name do you gain by spending every day pissed off at the world? It certainly can't be healthy for their children. Why can't one care about the environment and still be happy? Or animal rights or who/whatever the latest trendy victim is. I have concerns that run at least as deep as those on the left, some beyond my ability as an individual to change. My mood certainly has no impact and isn't a catalyst for change...except in the way I feel about myself. Why should I give anything or anyone that much power over my life. If I'm worrying, I'm not living and I'm not paying attention to those things I can influence or change. Besides, I don't want to be responsible for really harmful unintended consequences that always come from hysterical solutions to problems that may not even exist. And it's mostly the women who are big, ugly sacks of seething rage.
Of course, it could be simpler than that. Maybe it's because the women never had a real man and the men don't have a clue about how a man should be. That would probably depress me too.
Cindie
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The reason rural America votes Republican is very simple:
THEY JUST WANT TO LIVE THEIR LIVES AND BE LEFT THE F*** ALONE!!!!
It's that easy....
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Well at least us rural folk bathe whereas hippies tend to shun that kind of thing. I used to be a democrat but I grew up long before I moved here. I just didn't like the idea that constant anger seemed to be the norm. Didn't matter whether a D or an R was in the White House anger on the left is palpable, infectious, and sucks the joy right out of life. What in God's (or Gaia's, Satan's, wood elf's) name do you gain by spending every day pissed off at the world? It certainly can't be healthy for their children. Why can't one care about the environment and still be happy? Or animal rights or who/whatever the latest trendy victim is. I have concerns that run at least as deep as those on the left, some beyond my ability as an individual to change. My mood certainly has no impact and isn't a catalyst for change...except in the way I feel about myself. Why should I give anything or anyone that much power over my life. If I'm worrying, I'm not living and I'm not paying attention to those things I can influence or change. Besides, I don't want to be responsible for really harmful unintended consequences that always come from hysterical solutions to problems that may not even exist. And it's mostly the women who are big, ugly sacks of seething rage.
Of course, it could be simpler than that. Maybe it's because the women never had a real man and the men don't have a clue about how a man should be. That would probably depress me too.
Damn, you're good, madam.
If you weren't already married, I'd run away with you in a heartbeat.
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I believe that it is a cultural thing.....myself and Mrs. doc both grew up in a rural area, she on a farm, and me in the closest town (pop.2500). Over the past four decades, we have lived in NYC, LA, Detroit, and a number of other cities both here and overseas.
We have observed that city dwellers become conditioned to having to depend on any number of government-provided services to exist, ranging form police protection down to trash collection. When you exist in a small area, populated by a vast number of folks, I think you develop a "lemming" mentality, and begin to lose your innate sense of individualism, and self-sufficiency. We observed that particularly in eastern US cities, people develop the habit of complaining about nearly everything.....it becomes a way of life to be dissatisfied about something, as the urban lifestyle fosters a sense of loss of personal control.....whether you are self-sufficient or not, the urban system promotes the "communal" concept that all citizens are dependent on the government to one degree or another.
This is why, when we were able, we returned to our rural roots, as we never really did "fit in" in the urban landscape. It was fun to participate in all of the entertainment, activity, and dining opportunities that urban life offered in the cities that we lived either in or near, but, due, I suppose, to our roots, we never felt comfortable with it, and ultimately returned home.
doc
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I believe that it is a cultural thing.....myself and Mrs. doc both grew up in a rural area, she on a farm, and me in the closest town (pop.2500). Over the past four decades, we have lived in NYC, LA, Detroit, and a number of other cities both here and overseas.
We have observed that city dwellers become conditioned to having to depend on any number of government-provided services to exist, ranging form police protection down to trash collection. When you exist in a small area, populated by a vast number of folks, I think you develop a "lemming" mentality, and begin to lose your innate sense of individualism, and self-sufficiency. We observed that particularly in eastern US cities, people develop the habit of complaining about nearly everything.....it becomes a way of life to be dissatisfied about something, as the urban lifestyle fosters a sense of loss of personal control.....whether you are self-sufficient or not, the urban system promotes the "communal" concept that all citizens are dependent on the government to one degree or another.
This is why, when we were able, we returned to our rural roots, as we never really did "fit in" in the urban landscape. It was fun to participate in all of the entertainment, activity, and dining opportunities that urban life offered in the cities that we lived either in or near, but, due, I suppose, to our roots, we never felt comfortable with it, and ultimately returned home.
doc
Excellent remarks.
They made me think of why I am the way I am. My mother, who is a BIG lib, unknowningly set fourth the reasons I'm a conservative.
We always did outdoors things, skiing, backpacking, fishing, hunting. Mostly inspired by my father. Nearly all these activities require the need for self sufficiency. Backpacking especially. You have to take all your "needs" on your back, at times over 7 miles or so,(most of the trips we took) into the wilderness. You cannot rely on someone else, you must do for yourself.
To this day people I know who like to "camp" (they usually have NO clue) that are amazed at my outdoor abilities. The things that I take for granted, IE: outdoor "knowledge", are completely unknown to them.
Iv'e had friends so "cityfied" they actually brought a gas BBQ camping, they never thought that "Hey, I just might wanna make a fire!" :thatsright:
Most of them had a "hive" mentality.
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Maybe because we're more self reliant on our own skill sets rather than depending on the government. I may be conservative, but I've made a wonderful life for myself and my family. I'm blessed with a good career, good health, great kids, and a woman I still can't fathom why she married me (after 24 years). We live within our means and enjoy each and every day. Call me Pollyanna, but I look forward to each and every day and wish no ill upon anyone.
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In other words;
"Give us a couple of years to think up some cockamamie story that we can find plausible"
KC
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Because we don't like Socialism. Or for a longer answer, because the Democrats are so *******ed wrong on everything important.
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Because we don't like Socialism. Or for a longer answer, because the Democrats are so *******ed wrong on everything important.
What he said
:cheersmate:
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I believe that it is a cultural thing.....myself and Mrs. doc both grew up in a rural area, she on a farm, and me in the closest town (pop.2500). Over the past four decades, we have lived in NYC, LA, Detroit, and a number of other cities both here and overseas.
We have observed that city dwellers become conditioned to having to depend on any number of government-provided services to exist, ranging form police protection down to trash collection. When you exist in a small area, populated by a vast number of folks, I think you develop a "lemming" mentality, and begin to lose your innate sense of individualism, and self-sufficiency. We observed that particularly in eastern US cities, people develop the habit of complaining about nearly everything.....it becomes a way of life to be dissatisfied about something, as the urban lifestyle fosters a sense of loss of personal control.....whether you are self-sufficient or not, the urban system promotes the "communal" concept that all citizens are dependent on the government to one degree or another.
This is why, when we were able, we returned to our rural roots, as we never really did "fit in" in the urban landscape. It was fun to participate in all of the entertainment, activity, and dining opportunities that urban life offered in the cities that we lived either in or near, but, due, I suppose, to our roots, we never felt comfortable with it, and ultimately returned home.
doc
I think you've nailed it. Only those that are completely dependent on the "government," either financially or mentally, consistently vote Democratic. (Plus, big city dwellers frequently live in high-pollution areas, so those that also do illegal drugs have major brain damage. :-) )
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Iv'e had friends so "cityfied" they actually brought a gas BBQ camping, they never thought that "Hey, I just might wanna make a fire!" :thatsright:
Most of them had a "hive" mentality.
Hey now my husband retrofitted a gas grill to attach to the tailgate of the truck. :-)