The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: bijou on March 18, 2009, 03:00:26 PM
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(CNSNews.com) - The U.S. Army has launched an inquiry into how and why active duty troops from Fort Rucker, Ala., came to be placed on the streets of Samson, Ala., during last week's murder spree in that tiny South Alabama community. The use of the troops was a possible violation of federal law.
“On March 10, after a report of an apparent mass murder in Samson, Ala., 22 military police soldiers from Fort Rucker, Ala., along with the provost marshal, were sent to the city of Samson,†Harvey Perritt, spokesman for the U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) at Fort Monroe, Va., told CNSNews.com on Monday.
“The purpose for sending the military police, the authority for doing so, and what duties they performed is the subject of an ongoing commander’s inquiry--directed by the commanding general of U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command, Gen. Martin Dempsey.â€
TRADOC is the headquarters command for Ft. Rucker.
“In addition to determining the facts, this inquiry will also determine whether law, regulation and policy were followed,†Perritt added. “Until those facts are determined, it would be inappropriate to speculate or comment further.â€
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http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=45206
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Some line officer's career just ended.
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Some line officer's career just ended.
I presumed that this was a serious matter but I just didn't know enough on the point. Thanks for clarifying it.
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I presumed that this was a serious matter but I just didn't know enough on the point. Thanks for clarifying it.
It was outright illegal, per the Posse Comitatus Act.
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Glenn Beck has Ret Army Gen Richard Myers on ....they have been talking about it.
Apparently, Gov of AL didn't know they were there until someone called him and asked him why.
Somebody's going to be in big trouble!!!
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Yah, this is a very BAD idea on some officer's part. Did the Provost do this or did somebody in the chain at Rucker get a bug in their ass?
Finally, I would like to know what they were doing, if they were armed or just investigating, etc., etc.
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Yah, this is a very BAD idea on some officer's part. Did the Provost do this or did somebody in the chain at Rucker get a bug in their ass?
Finally, I would like to know what they were doing, if they were armed or just investigating, etc., etc.
Not reading into it, but what probably happend was whent he city police put out an all-wide request for assistance, the MPs heard the call and responded. Odds are the duty officer rang up the CG and said, "Sir, the city of poon-tang-ville just called us for help". and he replied, "OK, send the mudpuppies."
Alot of hand-ringing over nothing.
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Possibly, but the libertarian crowd will go apeshit over it nevertheless. If they weren't armed, I don't really see a huge issue over it.
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Glenn Beck has Ret Army Gen Richard Myers on ....they have been talking about it.
Apparently, Gov of AL didn't know they were there until someone called him and asked him why.
Somebody's going to be in big trouble!!!
Umm... General Myers is retired Air Force thank you.
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Possibly, but the libertarian crowd will go apeshit over it nevertheless. If they weren't armed, I don't really see a huge issue over it.
I've only seen one photo, but it does look like they were wearing their issue sidearms.
Armed or not, it may have still broken federal law. It will be interesting to see what the investigation turns up.
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Doubtful. Here's a pretty interesting link:
LINK (http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/Trebilcock.htm)
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Doubtful. Here's a pretty interesting link:
LINK (http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/Trebilcock.htm)
I've seen that article before and it does bring up some interesting points.
In regards to the OP, we don't know just what role the MP's played in this case yet. Was it active or passive?
I can't tell from the articles I've read.
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Umm... General Myers is retired Air Force thank you.
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Doubtful. Here's a pretty interesting link:
LINK (http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/Trebilcock.htm)
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The article is not actually wrong, it is however NOT an accurate portrayal of the actual implementation of it, but a string of exceptional situations trying to string itself into an argument that the law means nothing -- it is just a lawyer's intellectual argument in a thesis paper that has no real relationship to the ACTUAL policy controls or directives under which Commanders and Provost Marshals operate.
Anyone relying on that article for an idea about how Posse Comitatus is trained in pre-command courses and the expectations MACOM CGs have about how their subordinate commanders will use their MP assets would be sorely mistaken. An O6 commander who actually implemented Posse Comitatus as described in that article in a CONUS civil situation would be retiring shortly afterward, though a two-star ring-knocker would no doubt succeed in blaming his SJA for the boo-boo and still get his third star (after ignoring the JAG's words of warning, of course).
There really is no exception that would fit the situation at Rucker. Someone screwed the pooch big-time and someone will end up paying for it by ritual career immolation. It is remotely possible that it may be the same person in both cases, though I have a rather cynical view of the probabilities of that.
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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The article is not actually wrong, it is however NOT an accurate portrayal of the actual implementation of it, but a string of exceptional situations trying to string itself into an argument that the law means nothing -- it is just a lawyer's intellectual argument in a thesis paper that has no real relationship to the ACTUAL policy controls or directives under which Commanders and Provost Marshals operate.
Anyone relying on that article for an idea about how Posse Comitatus is trained in pre-command courses and the expectations MACOM CGs have about how their subordinate commanders will use their MP assets would be sorely mistaken. An O6 commander who actually implemented Posse Comitatus as described in that article in a CONUS civil situation would be retiring shortly afterward, though a two-star ring-knocker would no doubt succeed in blaming his SJA for the boo-boo and still get his third star (after ignoring the JAG's words of warning, of course).
There really is no exception that would fit the situation at Rucker. Someone screwed the pooch big-time and someone will end up paying for it by ritual career immolation. It is remotely possible that it may be the same person in both cases, though I have a rather cynical view of the probabilities of that.
You said it better than I ever could have.
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It will be interesting to see how quickly the dims/libs will blame G.W.
Didn't clinton also violate the Posse Comitatus Act at WACO?
It will be interesting with hundreds of thousands of "tea bags" start arriving at the house and senate to see what kinds of restrictions the obama administration and the dims/libs place on the USPS.
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Ok I've lived down in this area of LA (Lower Alabama). Samson is little more than a speed trap on a country road.
Those 22 MP's were more than likely the SRT team (Military version of SWAT) from the Ft. Rucker MP company.
I've been in towns where soldiers get into fights at bars with civilians and the MP's are called in to help make arrests and quell the violence.
Samson has military folks that live there as does New Brockton, Geneva, Coffee Springs...you get the picture.
My educated guess is that the Samson LEO's determined that they didn't have the manpower/firepower to stop this and legally called in the SRT team for help.
My ex rolled through 5 minutes after this lunatic did his shooting there with a school bus full of 45 kids.
Which wuld have been worse...the SRT team rolling out to assist local LEO's...or a bus full of elementary school kids shot up by this lunatic because the assistance was there and never called for?
ETA: There are also dozens of helicopter training areas in that area that the pilot trainees use all the time. There was no telling with this guy if he would decide to just start shooting at any training flight that decided to pass by.
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ETA: There are also dozens of helicopter training areas in that area that the pilot trainees use all the time. There was no telling with this guy if he would decide to just start shooting at any training flight that decided to pass by.
Well, shit, then let's just confiscate all the guns within 10 miles of the flight paths so we can keep that problem from ever happening, after all which one is worse -- just ignoring some silly out-dated legal restrictions on using the military, or having some nutty Alabaman go crazy and put American lives in danger by shooting at helicopters?
Sarcasm aside, there's a whole lot more to using the MPs in a mixed situation than you realize, and this isn't the time place to give you a four-hour block of instruction on how it works and the RUF they have to operate under when it is properly authorized.
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I saw the County Sheriff (I think that's what he was) interviewed on Fox last week. He said that he was the one that called in the troops. He said they ( the local guys in charge) were not sure what they were facing with so many dead, and that they (the county) had so few of their own, that he thought calling in the troops was the best way to protect the residents from whomever was doing the killing. When he called in the troops, he didn't know how many or where the killer(s) were.
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It will be interesting to see what the Army investigation concludes concerning this instance.
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Well, shit, then let's just confiscate all the guns within 10 miles of the flight paths so we can keep that problem from ever happening, after all which one is worse -- just ignoring some silly out-dated legal restrictions on using the military, or having some nutty Alabaman go crazy and put American lives in danger by shooting at helicopters?
:whatever:
Sarcasm aside, there's a whole lot more to using the MPs in a mixed situation than you realize, and this isn't the time place to give you a four-hour block of instruction on how it works and the RUF they have to operate under when it is properly authorized.
I understand a little mor ethan you might give me credit for.
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I saw the County Sheriff (I think that's what he was) interviewed on Fox last week. He said that he was the one that called in the troops. He said they ( the local guys in charge) were not sure what they were facing with so many dead, and that they (the county) had so few of their own, that he thought calling in the troops was the best way to protect the residents from whomever was doing the killing. When he called in the troops, he didn't know how many or where the killer(s) were.
Which is pretty much was I was guesstimating on earlier.