The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: LC EFA on March 15, 2009, 03:42:52 AM
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It's funny watching a group of people talking about a barter system, when they produce nothing, nor provide any form of service that has any value.
Do they realize what a barter system would mean for them ?
trthnd4jstc (1000+ posts) Sat Mar-14-09 11:59 PM
Original message
We can create a new form of Currency. One based on an Hour of Labor equalling a unit of exchange. Updated at 12:13 AM
I know a professor emeritus of SIUE, Bob Blain (http://www.siue.edu/~rblain/index.htm) Here are two of his books for sail: Link (http://www.flipkart.com/bob-blain)
Here is another site, called Time Banking (http://www.timebanks.org/)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5257368
We already have a suitably quantified unit of exchange for labor, it's called the dollar.
I suspect that this primitive wishes to equate an hour of brain surgery with an hour of digging weeds.
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-15-09 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Sorry, wasn't trying to be flip. But what you described is bartering, and
it has a long and wonderful history, helping all the people involved.
I didn't mean for that to sound derogatory.
The industrial revolution killed what you are thinking of as barter.
Today, I can go "barter" a wad of cash for $desired_item. Works pretty well for me, especially when the person selling $desired_item has no need for $my_produce.
Posteritatis (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-15-09 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. Which, of course, assumes that all hours of labour are perfectly equivalent
Which is entirely untrue.
Correct. One hour's worth or art appreciating is not worth one hour of automobile repairing.
trthnd4jstc (1000+ posts) Journal Sun Mar-15-09 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. An hour of labor should have some base value. Not all hours are the same, but all labor is valuable Updated at 12:13 AM
We need a new currency, since we are bankrupt. I believe that Hour Money, Ithica Dollar, Santa Cruz Barter Network, Whatever, it is one means of creating greater economic activity. We do have labor.
How does one value, say an electrical engineer compared to an electrical contractor, or an electrician. What is a just price. I believe that a fair price is connected to the amount of value that one has created for the client, which includes the costs of overhead, labor, materials, and profit. Bob Blain had the thought that an Hour Dollar could be equal to $45.00 to $55.00 per hour.
I do not know what the base hour should be valuated at. I would say something at least worth $20.00. The thing is that the Federal Government throught the House of Representatives has the complete right to print money, and yet they delegate it over the the foxes, I mean bankers. The Bankers have done a horrible job, through there creating of triple B bonds, stock default swaps, and what-not. The expansion of the money supply is a risk to our Nation. 2 Representatives, Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinech can speak extensively about it.
Does what we have now for currency work for us as a society?
We cannot go to Gold or Silver, but we can come from our Labor. We all have Labor to create, and the Government can pay us for each hour of labor we work.
Not all hours are the same ?
Proof positive that they live in a different reality.
greenkal (58 posts) Sun Mar-15-09 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
25. "not all hours are the same" is racist
So a black man's hours aren't the same as some rich white guy that used family connections to get into medical school?
A set fee per hour of labor is the only fair way to do things.
This is an example of what happens when you read between the lines and connect the dots while smoking crack.
rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-15-09 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. This would certainly give ditch-diggers the edge over corporate middle-management. n/t
*snort*. I wonder if the dummies get this one.
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-15-09 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm tired of 'selling' my 'labor' for basic human rights
Food, shelter, healthcare, security.
(Mebbe I'd still do it for some new dvds or something.)
Anyway, what about seniors, the disabled, and the like? What would their 'currency' be?
Your labor is clearly fairly close to worthless, and in the quantities that I suspect you provide it in you are outta luck in the barter system as well.
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For once a DUmmie has taken the words out of my mouth.
Cid_B (437 posts) Sun Mar-15-09 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Yet again,
I have lost all ability to determine who is being serious around here. Does this need a sarcasm tag?
vadawg (492 posts) Sun Mar-15-09 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. More likely it needs a crazy loon flag
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DUmmie says:
"I know a professor emeritus of SIUE, Bob Blain Here are two of his books for sail."
Yep.....sail'em right down the old sewer system. That's all they're fit for.
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DUmmie says:
"I know a professor emeritus of SIUE, Bob Blain Here are two of his books for sail."
Yep.....sail'em right down the old sewer system. That's all they're fit for.
Speaking of sailing, the the OP Little Goon has clearly displayed that its knowledge of economics is stuck somewhere between the moon and New York City.
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Speaking of sailing, the the OP Little Goon has clearly displayed that its knowledge of economics is stuck somewhere between the moon and New York City.
And the best that they can do, the best that they can do is fall in love . . . (With what, I really don't want to know.)
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-15-09 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm tired of 'selling' my 'labor' for basic human rights
Food, shelter, healthcare, security.
(Mebbe I'd still do it for some new dvds or something.)
Anyway, what about seniors, the disabled, and the like? What would their 'currency' be?
Oh please, for the love of God and all that is holy, tell me that this person is either a mole or incapable of spawning offspring.
WTF do you think the vast majority of us "sell" our talents and labor FOR, you dim-witted booger-eating mouth-breather? It's so we CAN have provide for the basic necessities of food, clothing, shelter. Healthcare? Security? Are you just that stupid?
DUmmie: "Hey, doc--can I sweep your floors for an hour if you treat this canker I got from banging my unwashed girlfriend?"
Doc: "Uh, no. I've had 50 lowlifes offer to sweep my floors so far today. I don't need any more."
DUmmie: "Evil Rethuglican racist fundie!!"
Whereupon DUmmie runs back home, sore crank in hand, to post bouncy #493812 about how, "SO, I was at the doctor's office today, and a cop was reading...(insert remainder of bouncy)"
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If the value of a DUmmies contribution to society were rewarded by what it takes to survive then they would all immediately be shot.
What btw is so hard for them to comprehend that if you essentially made the minimum wage 40.00/hour that almost instantly that 40.00 would have the equivalence of what 7.00 does now,not 40 of todays dollars?
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If the value of a DUmmies contribution to society were rewarded by what it takes to survive then they would all immediately be shot.
What btw is so hard for them to comprehend that if you essentially made the minimum wage 40.00/hour that almost instantly that 40.00 would have the equivalence of what 7.00 does now,not 40 of todays dollars?
You forget.....they only do DUmmie math.
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We can create a new form of Currency. One based on an Hour of Labor equalling a unit of exchange.
So how would that change the economic situation of the typical DUmp monkey who doesn't work a single hour?
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So how would that change the economic situation of the typical DUmp monkey who doesn't work a single hour?
Good question...I'm stumped....................................................NOT
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Not all hours are the same ?
Proof positive that they live in a different reality.
Well, really that particular DUmmie was agreeing with your point that one hour of art appreciating does not equal one hour of auto repairing. This kind of system has been written about for decades, and while it's possible that a completely digital debit system could actually make it possible, it would require not only being possible but being mandatory with EVERYTIHING getting put into it to actually work, it would still be ridiculously more intrusive, involve inflexible central decisions about relative value instead of allowing relativistic float and bargaining, and generally be unbelievably cumbersome compared to using money as a "Medium of exchange."
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Well, really that particular DUmmie was agreeing with your point that one hour of art appreciating does not equal one hour of auto repairing. This kind of system has been written about for decades, and while it's possible that a completely digital debit system could actually make it possible, it would require not only being possible but being mandatory with EVERYTIHING getting put into it to actually work, it would still be ridiculously more intrusive, involve inflexible central decisions about relative value instead of allowing relativistic float and bargaining, and generally be unbelievably cumbersome compared to using money as a "Medium of exchange."
The bottom line is that when it comes to what is needed to keep a society afloat DUmmies offer nothing.
No matter what system they dream up thinking it will elevate themselves to the top without effort,reality still is what is and they would be bottom feeders regardless.
I always chuckle in knowing that if there was the leftist totalitarian government they dream of set up tomorrow it would likely be them to be the first group disappeared as they are worthless malcontents.
Their own wouldn`t let them exist as they would be a threat. :lmao:
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If the value of a DUmmies contribution to society were rewarded by what it takes to survive then they would all immediately be shot.
And for how long would you work to be able to shoot those bullets, neighbor? :tongue: :cheersmate:
I'd rather hang 'em. Saves ammo.
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Sounds like a womyns studies PhD attempting an actual science there.
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Sounds like somebody has been reading Karl Marx again ::)
We currently have something to compensate for our hours of work, it is called an hourly wage. Your employer decides how valuable your work is and pays you accordingly. If you disagree with your wage, you are welcome to find a new job.
I sincerely doubt that most DUmmies would really enjoy a barter system, unless they have some seriously important skills. Are they going to start paying for doctor visits with strawberries and cucumbers?
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Every time these idiots try to out-profound each other with their latest socialist pseudo intellectual crap it makes my brain hurt.
Cindie
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Anyone want to trade some healing light for a "I converted a repug" story?
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Sounds like somebody has been reading Karl Marx again ::)
We currently have something to compensate for our hours of work, it is called an hourly wage. Your employer decides how valuable your work is and pays you accordingly. If you disagree with your wage, you are welcome to find a new job.
I sincerely doubt that most DUmmies would really enjoy a barter system, unless they have some seriously important skills. Are they going to start paying for doctor visits with strawberries and cucumbers?
Actually, they'd try to pay for said doctor's visits with dime bags and stoopid (yes, that's a deliberate misspelling) comics.
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Every time these idiots try to out-profound each other with their latest socialist pseudo intellectual crap it makes my brain hurt.
Cindie
Oh, don't worry. Read enough of them and the brain pain will be replaced by gales of laughter. It's just the natural progression of an intelligent mind being exposed to moonbat stupidity. My theory is that the pain is caused by the brain cells in your head that store the semblances of liberal behavior dying. Once they're all gone - poof! - the humor of these nitwits' posts can finally be enjoyed.
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Sounds like somebody has been reading Karl Marx again ::)
We currently have something to compensate for our hours of work, it is called an hourly wage. Your employer decides how valuable your work is and pays you accordingly. If you disagree with your wage, you are welcome to find a new job.
I sincerely doubt that most DUmmies would really enjoy a barter system, unless they have some seriously important skills. Are they going to start paying for doctor visits with strawberries and cucumbers?
Close. It is actually a joint decision. When you are intially offered a job, the employer tells you what he wants to pay. You can accept that or negotiate for more. If you come to a joint decision, you take the job.
After you have been on the job for a while, you can renegotiate that wage from time to time. It's called asking for a raise. Either you can convince the employer that you deserve one or you can't. If at any time the employer and employee can't come to an agreement on the price, the employee can leave and seek employment elsewhere.
Now... Thank me for proving your point.
:cheersmate:
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Close. It is actually a joint decision. When you are intially offered a job, the employer tells you what he wants to pay. You can accept that or negotiate for more. If you come to a joint decision, you take the job.
After you have been on the job for a while, you can renegotiate that wage from time to time. It's called asking for a raise. Either you can convince the employer that you deserve one or you can't. If at any time the employer and employee can't come to an agreement on the price, the employee can leave and seek employment elsewhere.
Now... Thank me for proving your point.
:cheersmate:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was simplifying it for DUmmies minds :tongue:
Thank you :cheersmate:
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This would make a great poll question:
Are you being paid what you think your services are worth?
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This would make a great poll question:
Are you being paid what you think your services are worth?
Being in a warzone sucks, it's mostly boring. Being away from my family sucks, I like to stay really involved with the kids. They also just took two weeks of leave and a plane ticket away from me and moved my bonus back three and a half months.
On the other hand, this is the easiest money I've earned in my life. I do a little technical work, which is a little stressful, soldiers lives depend on it, but I'm a good ET and I don't take chances. I handle a few other items as well.
I don't know if it's fair. On the other hand, I wouldn't do it for less, so....
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trthnd4jstc
We can create a new form of Currency. One based on an Hour of Labor equalling a unit of exchange.
While you're creating this new currency, you and the other world-wide primitives need to take this idea and form another country hopefully on another planet.
.
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Do they realize what a barter system would mean for them ?
Most of them want to live in a commune, so they can freeload anyway.