The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: CactusCarlos on February 10, 2008, 03:24:42 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x64829
born gay or choose to be gay
Posted by ZombieHorde on Sun Feb-10-08 04:10 PM
Check out this short (1:33) and sweet video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S14VRjVDPcs&feature=related
"Oh? How old were you when you chose to be straight?"
Posted by Warpy on Sun Feb-10-08 04:18 PM
is always how I answer fools who try to say being gay is a choice.
Unfortunately for most phobes, it probably is a choice, one they struggle with every day as they try to choose to be straight and live in the burbs with the wife and kids and not stop at "that" rest stop on the way home for a quickie after a hard day at the office. They make everybody miserable in the process, especially the wife who wonders what she's doing wrong and goes after every fad diet and cosmetic surgery in the world to try to get him to touch her.
They'll never admit that they chose, though.
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The entire "born gay" issue is for one purpose....to be considered a legal minority and thus entitled to all the privileges that conveys.
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The entire "born gay" issue is for one purpose....to be considered a legal minority and thus entitled to all the privileges that conveys.
Except for one tiny detail - not one single person walking this planet can prove they were born gay. All the anecdotal evidence and inconclusive studies they can muster does not equal proof.
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The entire "born gay" issue is for one purpose....to be considered a legal minority and thus entitled to all the privileges that conveys.
Except for one tiny detail - not one single person walking this planet can prove they were born gay. All the anecdotal evidence and inconclusive studies they can muster does not equal proof.
Which is exactly why in DUmmiethink it has to be decreed.
They are the true authoritarians in the world.
For proof of that see...USSR,North Korea,Red China..etc.
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The entire "born gay" issue is for one purpose....to be considered a legal minority and thus entitled to all the privileges that conveys.
Except for one tiny detail - not one single person walking this planet can prove they were born gay. All the anecdotal evidence and inconclusive studies they can muster does not equal proof.
Born a child molester or learned?
No one knows the source of deviancy. But we can choose to accept it or not.
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(http://i29.tinypic.com/2zycra1.jpg)
If these two weren't born this way. They took Interpretive Dancing.
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(http://i29.tinypic.com/2zycra1.jpg)
If these two weren't born this way. They took Interpretive Dancing.
Still photo from "Bentback Mountain" - the prequel. :lmao:
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(http://i29.tinypic.com/2zycra1.jpg)
If these two weren't born this way. They took Interpretive Dancing.
2 Grecian urns!
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Sexuality is complicated... to say "Born gay" or "Choose to be gay" and leave it at that is short sighted. Sexuality may not break down to the genetic level, but I think it is a mixture of brain chemistry/hormonal (im)balance and life experience.
As someone once said. . .we know more about what happened in the first 15 seconds of the universes existence than what happens between "Your place or mine?" and deciding who gets to sleep in the wet spot.
*TKay*
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The entire "born gay" issue is for one purpose....to be considered a legal minority and thus entitled to all the privileges that conveys.
Except for one tiny detail - not one single person walking this planet can prove they were born gay. All the anecdotal evidence and inconclusive studies they can muster does not equal proof.
Using that same line of reasoning, you cannot prove otherwise as well though.
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I do have a question regarding this topic though.
As a heterosexual male, I can say without a doubt in my mind that Men do not "turn me on" in the slightest bit. As far as I can remember to my childhood, that's never been an issue. I can remember being attracted to girls since 1st grade. It's not something I've ever made a choice on. It's just simply how I was. I wasn't taught what was attractive, and what wasn't. It was just hardwired into me.
What if that is not the case though? What if for a mans whole life he does not find women in the least bit attractive? But men do it for him?
There are people out there like that. I know some. They did not just wake up one day and decide "I think I'm just gonna start smokin pole from this day forth."
Sure, some homosexuals make the choice. I knew a girl in highschool who became a lesbian because she was horribly molested by a man as a child, and it drove her to only being comfortable with women. She still found men attractive, but because of her experiences she couldn't bring herself to be with them.
I know others though who never had that choice to make. From day one, they just didn't see women the way we do. And to me, thats proof positive that for some, it's not a choice. Maybe some of you don't know any homosexuals, or actually discussed the topic with them, but I'd honestly suggest you do if ever given the oppurtunity.
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I don't believe it's genetic at all, however for most the 'choice' occurs early in the mental/emotional development of a child, too early for the child to be aware and also involving chance and the random coincidence of factors that separately might not have any lasting effect at all.
You're not born with it, but neither is it a conscious choice, but rather the product of exposure to poorly-understood influences from early childhood to adolescence.
So keep your kids away from the homos. k?
:-)
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I don't believe it's genetic at all, however for most the 'choice' occurs early in the mental/emotional development of a child, too early for the child to be aware and also involving chance and the random coincidence of factors that separately might not have any lasting effect at all.
You're not born with it, but neither is it a conscious choice, but rather the product of exposure to poorly-understood influences from early childhood to adolescence.
So keep your kids away from the homos. k?
:-)
You're on to something here. The idea that a large group (10%?) are born gay goes against the whole idea of evolution. There would be much more evidence of homosexual behavior in species that mate long term. How can the DUmmies operate when two of their major belief systems go into conflict?
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Born a child molester or learned?
No one knows the source of deviancy. But we can choose to accept it or not.
This is what I think. It is a deviance from the norm, whether the moonbats like it or not and regardless of whether or not it hurts some of their feelings.
Like you say, from that point, it becomes a conscientious choice.
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I agree with TKay, that it is due to some sort of hormonal imbalance...and I also think that psychological trauma could be and is the reason for others, like DAT suggested.
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I think it's a mix of possibly being hard wired that way and of course your enviornment. I have met a few people who were truly born the wrong sex. I know one girl who is for all intents and purposes, a man. She looks like a man and lives as a lesbian. Some would say she's just a dyke who chose that life but I have to admit, she really seems to have been born with the wrong genitalia. She's a really nice person and isn't the least bit bitter about the way the world may view her. She's not a flaming moonbat even though she's a liberal. She's only one person, but I find her story compelling.
I do think homosexuality is a deviation from the norm. We are designed to copulate with the opposite sex for reproduction - survival of the species. If it didn't matter and evolution is everything the liberals claim it to be, why haven't we become able to reproduce spontaniously?
There are so many unanswered questions regarding human sexuality and development. The liberals (DUmmies and their ilk) are not doing any favors by politicizing the issue and demanding special rights. They really have no one to blame but themselves in my opinion. I believe in live, let live - what you do is between yourself and God. As long as everyone is of age and consenting freely, go ahead. Just keep it behind closed doors and don't expect anything more than the real definition of "tolerance" - which is another word the liberals have mangled.
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I do have a question regarding this topic though.
As a heterosexual male, I can say without a doubt in my mind that Men do not "turn me on" in the slightest bit. As far as I can remember to my childhood, that's never been an issue. I can remember being attracted to girls since 1st grade. It's not something I've ever made a choice on. It's just simply how I was. I wasn't taught what was attractive, and what wasn't. It was just hardwired into me.
What if that is not the case though? What if for a mans whole life he does not find women in the least bit attractive? But men do it for him?
There are people out there like that. I know some. They did not just wake up one day and decide "I think I'm just gonna start smokin pole from this day forth."
Sure, some homosexuals make the choice. I knew a girl in highschool who became a lesbian because she was horribly molested by a man as a child, and it drove her to only being comfortable with women. She still found men attractive, but because of her experiences she couldn't bring herself to be with them.
I know others though who never had that choice to make. From day one, they just didn't see women the way we do. And to me, thats proof positive that for some, it's not a choice. Maybe some of you don't know any homosexuals, or actually discussed the topic with them, but I'd honestly suggest you do if ever given the oppurtunity.
:exactly:
*TKay*
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Hmmmmmmm....
Born a smoker or learned?
Born an alcoholic or learned?
Born an educator or learned?
Born a healer or learned?
Born a liberal or learned?
Born a conservative or learned?
Does it reall matter?
The choice is in what we do with what we have.
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People are born Blind, that is a birth defect.
People are born Deaf, that is a birth defect.
People are born with cleft palates, that is a birth defect.
People are born with Downs Syndrome, that is a birth defect.
Yet, somehow, if people are (btw, they aren't) born gay that ISN'T a birth defect? Bullshit.
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People are born Blind, that is a birth defect.
People are born Deaf, that is a birth defect.
People are born with cleft palates, that is a birth defect.
People are born with Downs Syndrome, that is a birth defect.
Yet, somehow, if people are (btw, they aren't) born gay that ISN'T a birth defect? Bullshit.
SHHHHHHHHHH!!!! If they hear you say that at the DUmp, they'll want a disablilty check for it.
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People are born Blind, that is a birth defect.
People are born Deaf, that is a birth defect.
People are born with cleft palates, that is a birth defect.
People are born with Downs Syndrome, that is a birth defect.
Yet, somehow, if people are (btw, they aren't) born gay that ISN'T a birth defect? Bullshit.
Because being gay in and of itself does not impede you from seeing, working, eating or fulfilling the most basic requirements of daily life.
That's why it can be argued that it is not a birth defect.
*TKay*
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People are born Blind, that is a birth defect.
People are born Deaf, that is a birth defect.
People are born with cleft palates, that is a birth defect.
People are born with Downs Syndrome, that is a birth defect.
Yet, somehow, if people are (btw, they aren't) born gay that ISN'T a birth defect? Bullshit.
Because being gay in and of itself does not impede you from seeing, working, eating or fulfilling the most basic requirements of daily life.
That's why it can be argued that it is not a birth defect.
*TKay*
But it does impede you from reproducing, which is the most basic requirement of life.
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People are born Blind, that is a birth defect.
People are born Deaf, that is a birth defect.
People are born with cleft palates, that is a birth defect.
People are born with Downs Syndrome, that is a birth defect.
Yet, somehow, if people are (btw, they aren't) born gay that ISN'T a birth defect? Bullshit.
Because being gay in and of itself does not impede you from seeing, working, eating or fulfilling the most basic requirements of daily life.
That's why it can be argued that it is not a birth defect.
*TKay*
But it does impede you from reproducing, which is the most basic requirement of life.
Not necessarily.
*TKay*
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But it does impede you from reproducing, which is the most basic requirement of life.
Not necessarily.
*TKay*
True, but to do so will require a third party, which invalidates the gay "union" and emphasizes how it isn't a union at all.
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So. . .if a straight couple resorts to IVF. . .they weren't a couple at all either, were they?
*TKay*
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People are born Blind, that is a birth defect.
People are born Deaf, that is a birth defect.
People are born with cleft palates, that is a birth defect.
People are born with Downs Syndrome, that is a birth defect.
Yet, somehow, if people are (btw, they aren't) born gay that ISN'T a birth defect? Bullshit.
Because being gay in and of itself does not impede you from seeing, working, eating or fulfilling the most basic requirements of daily life.
That's why it can be argued that it is not a birth defect.
*TKay*
But it does impede you from reproducing, which is the most basic requirement of life.
Not necessarily.
*TKay*
Yes, actually it is. Without reproduction, there would be no life.
I'm not gaybashing or anything, just stating the way I feel. I really don't care what people do, as long as it don't affect me.
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So. . .if a straight couple resorts to IVF. . .they weren't a couple at all either, were they?
*TKay*
No, one of the parties in the straight marriage had a defect.
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So. . .if a straight couple resorts to IVF. . .they weren't a couple at all either, were they?
*TKay*
Resorting to IVF indicates a failure to achieve the possible. Two homosexuals never had the possiblity. I don't see the comparison as valid.
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So. . .if a straight couple resorts to IVF. . .they weren't a couple at all either, were they?
*TKay*
No, one of the parties in the straight marriage had a defect.
Sometimes the defect extends to both parties in a marriage.
And the parties in the gay partnership have this "defect" as well.
It's moving the goalposts to say otherwise.
I know most of you aren't bashers. . .but at least see it from where I'm standing. It's not just people in the straight community that may not get where I come from, but there are idiots in the gay community that dismiss people like me as well as a phenomenon that simply doesn't exist, especially males that happen to share my particular orientation. So I've gotta be defensive on both ends.
Why am I defending the concept that being gay isn't a "defect". . .merely a bend in the tree of creation that no one's quite explained? Because I'm not a hypocrite. Because I won't defend one side then deny the other exists, unlike gay people I've met in my wanderings over the innernetz.
*TKay*
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Sometimes the defect extends to both parties in a marriage.
And the parties in the gay partnership have this "defect" as well.
It's moving the goalposts to say otherwise.
I know most of you aren't bashers. . .but at least see it from where I'm standing. It's not just people in the straight community that may not get where I come from, but there are idiots in the gay community that dismiss people like me as well as a phenomenon that simply doesn't exist, especially males that happen to share my particular orientation. So I've gotta be defensive on both ends.
Why am I defending the concept that being gay isn't a "defect". . .merely a bend in the tree of creation that no one's quite explained? Because I'm not a hypocrite. Because I won't defend one side then deny the other exists, unlike gay people I've met in my wanderings over the innernetz.
*TKay*
Do I think some are born that way? Sure. My boss, a retired CW3 is one. Bless her heart, I just don't see a way she could ever get a guy. However, I do not think ALL are born that way. ...and it is either a defect or a lifestyle choice. One of the two.
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Do I think some are born that way? Sure. My boss, a retired CW3 is one. Bless her heart, I just don't see a way she could ever get a guy. However, I do not think ALL are born that way. ...and it is either a defect or a lifestyle choice. One of the two.
How can you tell which ones aren't "Born that way"?
*TKay*
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So. . .if a straight couple resorts to IVF. . .they weren't a couple at all either, were they?
*TKay*
Resorting to IVF indicates a failure to achieve the possible. Two homosexuals never had the possiblity. I don't see the comparison as valid.
Exactly. If my sink stops up, I pour Drano down it and wait. I expect the pipes to do what they were designed to do, sometimes they don't. That's a defect.
If I don't have a drain in the botom of the sink, I don't expect the water to run out. That is not a defect, that is the wrong equipment. And the wrong equipment isn't a defect, it means you need to replace it with the right equipment.
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So. . .if a straight couple resorts to IVF. . .they weren't a couple at all either, were they?
*TKay*
Resorting to IVF indicates a failure to achieve the possible. Two homosexuals never had the possiblity. I don't see the comparison as valid.
Exactly. If my sink stops up, I pour Drano down it and wait. I expect the pipes to do what they were designed to do, sometimes they don't. That's a defect.
If I don't have a drain in the botom of the sink, I don't expect the water to run out. That is not a defect, that is the wrong equipment. And the wrong equipment isn't a defect, it means you need to replace it with the right equipment.
Nice plumbing analogy.
:-)
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Love the analogy too Sam! :-) Of course I was picturing "male" and "female" tools.
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If something deviates from the norm, it is an abnormality.
Homosexuality is a sexual abnormality.
My brother was born with webbed feet. That too is an abnormality.
I am left-handed, which pretty much deviates from the norm. Being left-handed might too be considered an abnormality.
Having a hairlip is an abnormality.
And so on and so forth.
It is what it is.
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If something deviates from the norm, it is an abnormality.
Homosexuality is a sexual abnormality.
My brother was born with webbed feet. That too is an abnormality.
I am left-handed, which pretty much deviates from the norm. Being left-handed might too be considered an abnormality.
Having a hairlip is an abnormality.
And so on and so forth.
It is what it is.
...and how you deal with it is what really counts.
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Exactly, Lug-Nut.
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Well, I
Do I think some are born that way? Sure. My boss, a retired CW3 is one. Bless her heart, I just don't see a way she could ever get a guy. However, I do not think ALL are born that way. ...and it is either a defect or a lifestyle choice. One of the two.
How can you tell which ones aren't "Born that way"?
*TKay*
Well, I'm pretty sure the ones that told me they chose to be gay CHOSE TO BE GAY.
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Well, I
Do I think some are born that way? Sure. My boss, a retired CW3 is one. Bless her heart, I just don't see a way she could ever get a guy. However, I do not think ALL are born that way. ...and it is either a defect or a lifestyle choice. One of the two.
How can you tell which ones aren't "Born that way"?
*TKay*
Well, I'm pretty sure the ones that told me they chose to be gay CHOSE TO BE GAY.
And with your genial personality, I'm sure they told you in droves.
*TKay*
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If you ask a homosexual why they are homosexual, their most likely response will be, "because it is my 'preference''. They wouldn't even know if they choose it because it is inherent or because of life experience (because we are conditioned and learn to react to situations from the time we are infants, who remembers that?).
The word "preference" is what someone chooses. It's the same thing for a heterosexual, too. I am heterosexual because it is my preference. It is what I choose.
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born gay or choose to be gay
Born Gay
(Sung to the tune of "Born Free")
Born gay, as gay as Jim Nabors
A big gay fellator
Born gay to follow your heart
Live gay, and limp wrists surround you
The bathhouse astounds you
Feel free to take off your towel
Stay gay, you're all about fashion
You're gay as a pink tutu
So to yourself be true
Born gay, hang out at the rest stops
Avoid all the vice cops
'Cause yoooooour boooorn gaaaaaay!
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born gay or choose to be gay
Born Gay
(Sung to the tune of "Born Free")
Born gay, as gay as Jim Nabors
A big gay fellator
Born gay to follow your heart
Live gay, and limp wrists surround you
The bathhouse astounds you
Feel free to take off your towel
Stay gay, you're all about fashion
You're gay as a pink tutu
So to yourself be true
Born gay, hang out at the rest stops
Avoid all the vice cops
'Cause yoooooour boooorn gaaaaaay!
Dandi, this is all I can add to that . . . :bow: :rotf:
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Do I think some are born that way? Sure. My boss, a retired CW3 is one. Bless her heart, I just don't see a way she could ever get a guy. However, I do not think ALL are born that way. ...and it is either a defect or a lifestyle choice. One of the two.
How can you tell which ones aren't "Born that way"?
*TKay*
No test exists. You have to take the person's word for it that they're gay. This is part of the problem I have with hate-crime laws. All a person has to say is that they're gay and their case is elevated to a special status.