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Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: Miss Mia on March 05, 2009, 12:56:08 PM

Title: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Miss Mia on March 05, 2009, 12:56:08 PM
This was put here, because it's not really political but more on the objectification of women, that attractiveness = incompetent.

Quote
Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin (http://www.miller-mccune.com/article/sex-appeal-may-have-hurt-sarah-palin-1041)

In a Sept. 4, 2008 column, just after Sarah Palin accepted the Republican nomination for vice-president, Will Wilkinson wrote admiringly of her “sexual power,” adding: “I think she is a tremendously sexy woman. How this will affect the race, I have no idea, but it’s just got to.”

New research suggests the Cato Institute research fellow was right. The Alaska governor’s attractiveness may indeed have affected the race – by making voters less likely to support the GOP ticket.

In a paper just published in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, psychologists Nathan Heflick and Jamie Goldenberg of the University of South Florida describe an experiment they conducted shortly after Wilkinson wrote those words. Building upon 1980s research suggesting attractive women in high-status jobs are perceived as less competent (a finding that has been challenged in recent years), they examined whether Palin’s sex appeal – the subject of endless media chatter in the weeks after she joined the ticket – hindered her ability to make the case she was up for the job.

They took a group of 133 undergraduates and assigned them to write a few lines about one of two celebrities: Palin or actress Angelina Jolie. Half of the participants in each category were asked to write “your thoughts and feelings about this person,” while the other half were asked to write “your thoughts and feelings about this person’s appearance.”

The participants were then asked to rate their subject (Palin or Jolie) in terms of various attributes, including competence. Finally, they were asked who they intended to vote for in the upcoming election.

Those who wrote about Palin’s appearance were more positive in their assessments than those who assessed her qualities as a person. But they rated her far lower in terms of competence, intelligence and capability, and were far less likely to indicate they planned to vote for the McCain-Palin ticket.

“It wasn’t her appearance per se” that soured people on Palin, Heflick said in an interview. “It was the effect her appearance had on their perception of her competence and humanity. Those variables made people less likely to vote for her.” (Not surprisingly, the participants’ feelings about Jolie did not influence their political opinions, whether they focused on her looks or personality.)

Heflick noted that all the self-proclaimed Democrats participating in the exercise indicated they were voting for Obama. So at least in this sample, it was Republicans and independents who were internally debating Palin’s suitability for the job. The study suggests that their confidence in her abilities may have decreased the more they focused on her looks – and thus, in feminist terms, objectified her.

-snip-


And here's an interesting blog.  While the author is clearly on the left politically, I think they highlight some important aspects of this research.  The indented paragraphs are from the study, not-indented is the author speaking.

Quote
Which Came First: The Objectification Of Sarah Palin, Or The Mistrust In Her Competence? (http://jezebel.com/5164970/which-came-first-the-objectification-of-sarah-palin-or-the-mistrust-in-her-competence?skyline=true&s=x)

              "We also found evidence that focusing on Palin's appearance led to reduced intentions to vote for the
               McCain-Palin ticket in the 2008 U.S. Presidential election. Further, perceptions of competence and
               humanness played a mediating role, such that appearance focus lowered perceived human essence and
               competence, which in turn reduced intentions to vote for John McCain."

When Sarah Palin's nomination was rolled out in August 2008, it was followed by near radio-silence from the McCain campaign as she prepped exhaustively for her RNC speech, given less than a week after her nomination. What that meant, in effect, is that there was a great deal of coverage on her more superficial aspects — including her looks and the parentage of her youngest child.

              "However, given the media's focus on Palin's appearance prior to the election, it is possible that people
              came to see her as less fully human (more robotic) and competent than they would have without this
              focus, and in turn, that they became even less likely to vote for her as a result (a more robotic, less
              competent candidate is certainly less desirable)."

How many times did you call her "Caribou Barbie"? Comment on her looks as an indicator of her competence or intelligence? (Furthermore, how many times did you hear a near-visceral hatred for Palin expressed by people that seemed out of proportion with her role?) Heflick and Goldenberg found that  both men and women, as well as liberals, moderates and conservatives, tended to objectify Sarah Palin and Angelina Jolie and judge them less competent when asked to contemplate their looks exclusively.

             "In considering the consequences of objectification, these findings suggest that being objectified affects
              women at not only an intrapersonal level, but also interpersonally, in ways that affect their real world
              chances of success. Research documenting that stripping people of their humanity plays a role in
              legitimizing aggression (e.g., Bar-Tal, 2000; Bandura, 2002) further suggests that objectification may
              have consequences for women beyond those we have discussed."

-snip-

Maybe you're wondering why most people who objectify Obama sexually (as opposed to, say, racially) don't find him less competent.

             "when women are evaluated for high status jobs, attractiveness reduces perceptions of women's, but not
              men's, competence (e.g., Heilman & Stopeck, 1985). Similarly, a recent study utilizing a mock U.S.
              presidential election methodology found that competence was rated as important for male and female
              candidates. But only for female candidates did appearance matter; and they were viewed as less
              competent overall"

So, you have to be pretty, if you're a woman, but not too pretty — but male appearance doesn't seem to matter one way or the other. And it's not just men that engage in this behavior, either:

-snip-
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: thundley4 on March 05, 2009, 01:06:18 PM
I think the study is full of  :censored: . This is just more trashing of Palin because they are still scared of her. We've seen similar trashing of Jindal by the left and media also.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Miss Mia on March 05, 2009, 01:12:30 PM
I think the study is full of  :censored: . This is just more trashing of Palin because they are still scared of her. We've seen similar trashing of Jindal by the left and media also.

When did the Cato Institute become left and why would they be trashing Palin? 

BTW, it's about how people view attractiveness, that being attractive (which both Palin and Jolie are) as being incompetent. 
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: NHSparky on March 05, 2009, 01:21:13 PM
Again, it's hard to pin down libertarianism because even libertarians can't define what they are (or aren't).

Oh, and a few points from the USF survey:

--133 undergrads
--October
--Building upon 1980s research suggesting attractive women in high-status jobs are perceived as less competent
--Constant targeting by the MSM

Think there'd be any bias against Palin?  Nah, really?

And you're still 60 percent favorable towards Obama, Mia?
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Sweet Dee on March 05, 2009, 01:24:34 PM
It's because of those damned Barbie dolls.

 :lmao:   :-)
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Miss Mia on March 05, 2009, 02:20:01 PM
Again, it's hard to pin down libertarianism because even libertarians can't define what they are (or aren't).

Oh, and a few points from the USF survey:

--133 undergrads
--October
--Building upon 1980s research suggesting attractive women in high-status jobs are perceived as less competent
--Constant targeting by the MSM

Think there'd be any bias against Palin?  Nah, really?

And you're still 60 percent favorable towards Obama, Mia?

Palin and Jolie were both used in the study.  The findings that the more someone's focused on a woman's attractiveness that same person will deem them less intelligent, was shown with both Palin AND Jolie. 
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Sweet Dee on March 05, 2009, 02:22:51 PM
Palin and Jolie were both used in the study.  The findings that the more someone's focused on a woman's attractiveness that same person will deem them less intelligent, was shown with both Palin AND Jolie. 


Maybe it's just an intimidation factor for both men and women?  A woman who has striking looks can't possibly be intelligent!  It has to be one or the other.  I for one don't think Palin's all that fab looking, but I do enjoy listening to her talk :)  She's interesting and has that rad accent thing going on. lol

Angelina Jolie is great looking, but insanely overrated.  She comes off as way too smug and self-righteous.  At least in my opinion.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Miss Mia on March 05, 2009, 02:26:52 PM
Maybe it's just an intimidation factor for both men and women?  A woman who has striking looks can't possibly be intelligent!  It has to be one or the other.  I for one don't think Palin's all that fab looking, but I do enjoy listening to her talk :)  She's interesting and has that rad accent thing going on. lol

Angelina Jolie is great looking, but insanely overrated.  She comes off as way too smug and self-righteous.  At least in my opinion.

Yes, I think intimidation is a factor in this.  And women are the worst critics of other women (and more women than men participated in this study). I think both Jolie and Palin are very attractive women.  And both definitely driven in their respective fields.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Ptarmigan on March 05, 2009, 02:51:52 PM
If I am correct, I have seen studies of the opposite of people who are considered more attractive are more likely to be helped.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 05, 2009, 02:53:51 PM
Hi,

I think they made a study and it is a bogus result.  Had they done the study before Palin had been introduced, where none of the students knew who she was, the results may have been different.  The media did everything they could to destroy her before she could even get started.

If one actually took the time to listen to her they might find she was the best candidate on either ticket.  She has actually run a government and very well.

regards,

5412
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Miss Mia on March 05, 2009, 02:54:46 PM
If I am correct, I have seen studies of the opposite of people who are considered more attractive are more likely to be helped.

That's referred to in the first article

Quote
In a paper just published in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, psychologists Nathan Heflick and Jamie Goldenberg of the University of South Florida describe an experiment they conducted shortly after Wilkinson wrote those words. Building upon 1980s research suggesting attractive women in high-status jobs are perceived as less competent (a finding that has been challenged in recent years), they examined whether Palin’s sex appeal — the subject of endless media chatter in the weeks after she joined the ticket — hindered her ability to make the case she was up for the job.
 

I cannot open the PDF that it links to though.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Miss Mia on March 05, 2009, 02:55:36 PM
Hi,

I think they made a study and it is a bogus result.  Had they done the study before Palin had been introduced, where none of the students knew who she was, the results may have been different.  The media did everything they could to destroy her before she could even get started.

If one actually took the time to listen to her they might find she was the best candidate on either ticket.  She has actually run a government and very well.

regards,

5412


Sure, but Jolie received the same results. Though not about if they'd vote for Jolie (that wasn't asked of course) but her competence level in relation to her perceived attractiveness. 
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: NHSparky on March 05, 2009, 03:01:00 PM
Sorry Mia, but media coverage/bias colors the results.  No way to spin out of that one.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: BEG on March 05, 2009, 03:56:48 PM
I can't attest to the validity of the study but I do believe women who are more attractive are considered less intelligent.  While their looks may get them ahead in business (as well as other things), it is not necessarily because they of their "smarts".  Of course if the woman is as dumb as a box of rocks, it probably wont help her too much that she is attractive (that is unless they are in Hollywood or P0rn). 
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Lacarnut on March 05, 2009, 04:15:11 PM
When did the Cato Institute become left and why would they be trashing Palin? 

BTW, it's about how people view attractiveness, that being attractive (which both Palin and Jolie are) as being incompetent. 

66% of voters from 18 to 29 voted for Obama. That tells me something right there. How about a poll where the pollsters don't pick and choose age groups. Rather they pick across all age groups. This study is a load of horse manure.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on March 05, 2009, 06:04:19 PM
Mia, thanks for posting this, I have wondered about it myself, because it seemed that a large part of the criticism directed toward her was inexplicable* unless motivated by a certain latent sexism (on the part of both men and women, and Liberals especially who refused to recognize their own issues with it) and poorly-concealed jealousy (mainly on the part of women and those who aspire to be women).

*Especially considering the defects of the competing ticket in experience on one hand, and mental faculties on the other.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Miss Mia on March 05, 2009, 06:07:38 PM
Mia, thanks for posting this, I have wondered about it myself, because it seemed that a large part of the criticism directed toward her was inexplicable* unless motivated by a certain latent sexism (on the part of both men and women, and Liberals especially who refused to recognize their own issues with it) and poorly-concealed jealousy (mainly on the part of women and those who aspire to be women).

*Especially considering the defects of the competing ticket in experience on one hand, and mental faculties on the other.

Yes, as the second article (a very liberal source) pointed out, how many liberals were calling her Caribou Barbie.  That's extremely sexist and quite disgusting. 
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Duke Nukum on March 05, 2009, 07:06:43 PM

Sure, but Jolie received the same results. Though not about if they'd vote for Jolie (that wasn't asked of course) but her competence level in relation to her perceived attractiveness. 
I have a total negative opinion of Jolie because of her public behavior.  I think she is a moron but may be coming around.  But I don't really perceive Jolie as attractive either with those freakish fish lips.  That was the most distracting thing about The Changeling.  I kept thinking, "Can't they find a real actress?" But I digress.

Sarah Palin isn't really my type but she is a conservative so that makes her seem more attractive to me.  Because conservative women are hot, usually.  I do think she was totally competent for the job.  Way more so than Obama.  But she was completely savaged. 

Tina Fey's mission was to destroy her.

I think the problem with this study is comparing a competent women like Palin to a basket case like Jolie...it just doesn't make any sense.  It's like they are just looking for a reason to discount Palin.

Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Rebel on March 05, 2009, 07:24:06 PM
Wonder how many people are wondering about how better it would have been had Sarah BEEN elected?
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: rich_t on March 05, 2009, 07:28:05 PM
Wonder how many people are wondering about how better it would have been had Sarah BEEN elected?

Me for one.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Duke Nukum on March 05, 2009, 07:34:10 PM
Wonder how many people are wondering about how better it would have been had Sarah BEEN elected?
Sadly, many, many Obama voters aren't the kind to read the news or stay informed in any way or have any real skin the game, AKA the market.  They voted for him because he looked good in a suit and could read a teleprompter nearly flawlessly.  Some may have even voted for him solely because he was black and they felt voting for him would prove they aren't racist, even though it proves exactly the opposite.

But it seems that Jim Cramer is among those who might be wondering that.  He's living that famous cliche of the liberal who gets mugged.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: ReardenSteel on March 05, 2009, 07:42:39 PM
Why didn't the "sex appeal" question get settled with Hillary Clinton?










j/k  :p
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: rich_t on March 05, 2009, 07:44:07 PM
Why didn't the "sex appeal" question get settled with Hillary Clinton?










j/k  :p


Cuz they weren't polling fat lesbians?
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: NHSparky on March 05, 2009, 07:48:44 PM
Why didn't the "sex appeal" question get settled with Hillary Clinton?










j/k  :p

Man, and I just had dinner, too.  So not cool!
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 05, 2009, 08:06:05 PM
Sadly, many, many Obama voters aren't the kind to read the news or stay informed in any way or have any real skin the game, AKA the market.  They voted for him because he looked good in a suit and could read a teleprompter nearly flawlessly.  Some may have even voted for him solely because he was black and they felt voting for him would prove they aren't racist, even though it proves exactly the opposite.

But it seems that Jim Cramer is among those who might be wondering that.  He's living that famous cliche of the liberal who gets mugged.

Hi,

Some might have voted for him because he was black????   Only something like 94% of the black population.  What was the quote going around from MLK, "I look foreword to the day that a man is not judged by the color of his skin.  Seems to me that is exactly what the blacks did.

I really got pissed off when Colin Powell said how esctatic he was, "We finally made it!".  Yes Mr. Powell, you got a black guy elected who never held a job other than a community orgainzer, had the most liberal voting record in the senate, even worse than Kennedy, and was totally unqualified......but indeed be proud because he is black.  Yes General Powell he is your totally unqualified commander in chief, just pissed away a trillion dollars or pork projects but cut the pentagon budget by 10% and is putting the safety and security of the nation at risk.  I am sure you are quite proud sir......

It looks to me that the very few white folks took skin color into their decision, but racism is still alive and well in the black population.  Seems to me that BO is one of them and he is acting like it is payback time......

Sorry for the rant, that just struck a chord with me.

regards,
5412
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: rich_t on March 05, 2009, 08:11:44 PM
Hi,

Some might have voted for him because he was black????   Only something like 94% of the black population.  What was the quote going around from MLK, "I look foreword to the day that a man is not judged by the color of his skin.  Seems to me that is exactly what the blacks did.

I really got pissed off when Colin Powell said how esctatic he was, "We finally made it!".  Yes Mr. Powell, you got a black guy elected who never held a job other than a community orgainzer, had the most liberal voting record in the senate, even worse than Kennedy, and was totally unqualified......but indeed be proud because he is black.  Yes General Powell he is your totally unqualified commander in chief, just pissed away a trillion dollars or pork projects but cut the pentagon budget by 10% and is putting the safety and security of the nation at risk.  I am sure you are quite proud sir......

It looks to me that the very few white folks took skin color into their decision, but racism is still alive and well in the black population.  Seems to me that BO is one of them and he is acting like it is payback time......

Sorry for the rant, that just struck a chord with me.

regards,
5412

Awesome rant Sir.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Wretched Excess on March 05, 2009, 08:15:31 PM
Hi,

Some might have voted for him because he was black????   Only something like 94% of the black population.  What was the quote going around from MLK, "I look foreword to the day that a man is not judged by the color of his skin.  Seems to me that is exactly what the blacks did.

I really got pissed off when Colin Powell said how esctatic he was, "We finally made it!".  Yes Mr. Powell, you got a black guy elected who never held a job other than a community orgainzer, had the most liberal voting record in the senate, even worse than Kennedy, and was totally unqualified......but indeed be proud because he is black.  Yes General Powell he is your totally unqualified commander in chief, just pissed away a trillion dollars or pork projects but cut the pentagon budget by 10% and is putting the safety and security of the nation at risk.  I am sure you are quite proud sir......

It looks to me that the very few white folks took skin color into their decision, but racism is still alive and well in the black population.  Seems to me that BO is one of them and he is acting like it is payback time......

Sorry for the rant, that just struck a chord with me.

regards,
5412

you just earned a few extra H5's

:admin:
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 05, 2009, 08:17:05 PM
Hi guys,

Thanks for the support.  You might be surprised to know my real name is Dennis Miller......and I had the name before the famous one did.  Ask Thundly if you don't believe me!

I almost deleted my rant, thanks for taking the time to post what you did.

regards,
5412
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Wretched Excess on March 05, 2009, 08:23:23 PM
Hi guys,

Thanks for the support.  You might be surprised to know my real name is Dennis Miller......and I had the name before the famous one did.  Ask Thundly if you don't believe me!

I almost deleted my rant, thanks for taking the time to post what you did.

regards,
5412

don't hesitate, 5412.  you almost didn't post that great letter to the RNC, if I recall correctly.

just post.  you have great instincts, and you are a fantastic new member of our community.

Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 05, 2009, 08:27:13 PM
don't hesitate, 5412.  you almost didn't post that great letter to the RNC, if I recall correctly.

just post.  you have great instincts, and you are a fantastic new member of our community.



Wow!,

Not so sure what to say other than thank you.  I was fighting with nitwits on the Cubs message board and actually caused one or two to stop and think but it was maddengly frustrating.  At lease over here folks have some common sense.  While it was nice for you to make me feel welcome, I can assure you the feeling is mutual.

regards,
5412
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Rebel on March 05, 2009, 08:34:14 PM
You need a cool avatar, though.  :-)

Hi5.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Wretched Excess on March 05, 2009, 08:36:41 PM
Wow!,

Not so sure what to say other than thank you.  I was fighting with nitwits on the Cubs message board and actually caused one or two to stop and think but it was maddengly frustrating.  At lease over here folks have some common sense.  While it was nice for you to make me feel welcome, I can assure you the feeling is mutual.

regards,
5412

cubs fans are idiots. :bolt:

and don't you cubs fans respond, or DJ will split your posts off to another thread*!

*that was actually a compliment, DJ :wink:

Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 05, 2009, 08:38:39 PM
Hi,

OK, confession time........I do not know what an avatar is....honest.  I asked my wife and she is currently looking the word up if she can find it.

I am guessing it is some type of photo signature or something.  Great idea.....except again I am uneducated.  I bought a new shotgun, took a picture of it and tried to cut and paste it into the post and it would not work.  I can't even figure out how to get a picture into the message.

Perhaps someone can take the time to educate me.

Also, I am headed to Phoenix on Saturday for two weeks, gotta get some Cub spring training games into my blood.  I will have my notebook with me and try to keep up.

Thanks,

5412
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Rebel on March 05, 2009, 08:41:35 PM
Hi,

OK, confession time........I do not know what an avatar is....honest.  I asked my wife and she is currently looking the word up if she can find it.

I am guessing it is some type of photo signature or something.  Great idea.....except again I am uneducated.  I bought a new shotgun, took a picture of it and tried to cut and paste it into the post and it would not work.  I can't even figure out how to get a picture into the message.

Perhaps someone can take the time to educate me.

Also, I am headed to Phoenix on Saturday for two weeks, gotta get some Cub spring training games into my blood.  I will have my notebook with me and try to keep up.

Thanks,

5412

That caveman picture is an avatar. If you find me a pic, I'll make it your avatar for you. The caveman is a generic avatar given to all who haven't chosen their own pic. There are also pics on the server you can choose from. We have sports-minded av's, military av's, etc.

Go to Profile---->Forum Profile Information----and you can choose. I'm not saying you have to, but when people are scanning through, it's easier to identify other posters by their avatars. Mine is a Mississippi College flag.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 05, 2009, 08:43:49 PM
cubs fans are idiots. :bolt:

and don't you cubs fans respond, or DJ will split your posts off to another thread*!

*that was actually a compliment, DJ :wink:



Hi,

I saw my first Cub game in 1944 and have been hooked ever since.  I have written the commissioner several times in the last year and really pissed him off.  When he told me that he feels that baseball has a better salary structure than any other professional sport, I just quit.  And he gets paid $18 million a year.....  Anytime you want to talk baseball I am game.  My son was a college all American and some of his classmates are still involved in scouting etc.  I coached the game for years as a hobby and it truly is something I enjoy.  

Cub fans are idiots because we delude ourselves year after year.  At the same time when you are emotionally committed to something, be it a political philosophy, or a sports team, you are committed and that is that......

regards,
5412
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 05, 2009, 08:45:17 PM
That caveman picture is an avatar. If you find me a pic, I'll make it your avatar for you. The caveman is a generic avatar given to all who haven't chosen their own pic. There are also pics on the server you can choose from. We have sports-minded av's, military av's, etc.

Go to Profile---->Forum Profile Information----and you can choose. I'm not saying you have to, but when people are scanning through, it's easier to identify other posters by their avatars. Mine is a Mississippi College flag.

Hi,

I sent Glenn Beck a photo of my wife and I in our Cub jerserys, would it be something like that? 

regards,
5412
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Duke Nukum on March 05, 2009, 08:46:41 PM
Hi,

Some might have voted for him because he was black????   Only something like 94% of the black population.  What was the quote going around from MLK, "I look foreword to the day that a man is not judged by the color of his skin.  Seems to me that is exactly what the blacks did.

I really got pissed off when Colin Powell said how esctatic he was, "We finally made it!".  Yes Mr. Powell, you got a black guy elected who never held a job other than a community orgainzer, had the most liberal voting record in the senate, even worse than Kennedy, and was totally unqualified......but indeed be proud because he is black.  Yes General Powell he is your totally unqualified commander in chief, just pissed away a trillion dollars or pork projects but cut the pentagon budget by 10% and is putting the safety and security of the nation at risk.  I am sure you are quite proud sir......

It looks to me that the very few white folks took skin color into their decision, but racism is still alive and well in the black population.  Seems to me that BO is one of them and he is acting like it is payback time......

Sorry for the rant, that just struck a chord with me.

regards,
5412
I don't know, I think a lot of white people had to vote for him just because he was black because other than the suit and awesome teleprompter skills he is completely unqualified.  I live in Madison WI where voting Republican is synonymous with "racist," "sexist," and "homophobe."  
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: DixieBelle on March 05, 2009, 08:51:17 PM
5412 - awesome rant. H5. I think he needs a Cubs avatar.

Skewed poll in my opinion. They didn't sample properly and should have picked another female politician instead of Jolie. Total Palin hit job.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Rebel on March 05, 2009, 08:53:03 PM
5412 - awesome rant. H5. I think he needs a Cubs avatar.

Skewed poll in my opinion. They didn't sample properly and should have picked another female politician instead of Jolie. Total Palin hit job.

Done, although there are two more he can choose from. ....or he can upload or link to another.

BTW, this is where you change it 5412:

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php?action=profile;u=522;sa=forumProfile

That's a direct link to your profile settings.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 05, 2009, 09:06:16 PM
That caveman picture is an avatar. If you find me a pic, I'll make it your avatar for you. The caveman is a generic avatar given to all who haven't chosen their own pic. There are also pics on the server you can choose from. We have sports-minded av's, military av's, etc.

Go to Profile---->Forum Profile Information----and you can choose. I'm not saying you have to, but when people are scanning through, it's easier to identify other posters by their avatars. Mine is a Mississippi College flag.

Hi again,

I actually fly the flag every day and put a light outside that goes on automatically when it gets dark and goes off when it is light in the morning.  Perhaps something with a flag would suit me just fine.  I have done that regularly since 9-11 and the good news is there are now three of them on display on our street.  My wife and I lived in our motor home for over a year and had a lot in Naples FL where we wintered.  I actually went out and bought a big flag pole, sunk it into the ground with concrete and ran it 20' in the air.  Within a month there were a dozen more that sprouted up.....

Let me tell you a story that I confessed to some friends who I have known for over 60 years.  When I was in high school, I helped make the upper half of the class possible.  Now when I enlisted into the Marine Corps (I was on the way to Parris Island ten days after graduation), I discovered my IQ was in the top 2% of the world.  You might make a case that I probably was the most efficient kid in my class, got passing grades from the least amount of effort.

Now in IL when I grew up, we had to pass a Constitution test to graduate from high school, both the US Constitution and the Illinois Constitution.  I took to that like a duck does to water.  Now we had somewhere around 150 in our graduating class and the social studies teacher announced I got the highest grade in the senior class on that test......no one would ever remember that, but I will never forget it because the implication was I must have cheated or been lucky.  A guy with a C- average just is not capable of doing that kind of work.  Hell I got much better grades in college because I was paying for it....

I tell you that because I really am a patriot.  When John Kennedy was killed I was in the Marine Corps Reserve at the time.  I learned they were going to have a 21 gun salute for him at Fort Sheridan.  I called my neighbor and another Marine, we got our uniforms on, drove well over an hour to get there, stood at attention saluting during the ceremony with tears running down our cheeks.  

During the Vietnam War, several of the leftist Hollywood types ran an ad in the London Times basically saying they did not support our government and the war.  I had too many friends over there, and their ass was hanging out to dry.  I called Wally Phillips, a Chicago disc jockey and said I do not think the Hollywood nitwits represent the bulk of Americans but I couldn't afford the money for an add, but I could contribute $5.  He picked up on that and within a matter of a couple hours raised over $20,000 and we bought an ad in the London Times saying that Americans are proud of their right of free speech, but do not misunderstand that these Hollywood types do not speak for us.  Included in the add was the number of people that contributed money for the add.  I still have a copy of it framed somewhere in an attic or something.

When Sam Nunn appointed my son to the Naval Academy we went and visited him in Washington to thank him.  Much to my surprise, we spent the better part of an hour with him and he and I corresponded regularly for quite some time.  Now he was a senator who was indeed a public servant.......unlike some we have now......which is why I blast away at Nelson.  On the other hand, I got a wonderful, and personal, note from Senator Martinez today regarding the stimulus package and one item I asked him to see if he could strike out.  Some of them still listen...

OK, that is a bit of who I am and my CORE beliefs.  With that being said, I will yield to your suggestion, you pick what you think would be an appropriate avatar.....and my wife walked in with the definition as I was typing this.

Thanks again,

5412
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 05, 2009, 09:07:48 PM
Done, although there are two more he can choose from. ....or he can upload or link to another.

BTW, this is where you change it 5412:

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php?action=profile;u=522;sa=forumProfile

That's a direct link to your profile settings.

Hi,

I guess we were both posting at the same time.  Cub flag is fine, however after reading my last post feel free to change it if you think there is something more appropriate.

regards,
5412
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: DixieBelle on March 05, 2009, 09:29:22 PM
5412 - Thank you and your son for your service.

I love your letter and am glad you have used your First Amendment rights. You sir are a true patriot.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Rebel on March 05, 2009, 09:29:59 PM
Hi,

I guess we were both posting at the same time.  Cub flag is fine, however after reading my last post feel free to change it if you think there is something more appropriate.

regards,
5412

That is completely up to you. USMC, Ole Glory, Cubs, or something else. You tell me what you want and I'll make it happen.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Rebel on March 05, 2009, 09:31:55 PM
...but that one's cool. Your call, sir.  :cheersmate:
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: rich_t on March 05, 2009, 09:33:34 PM
Dear Admins.

Please change 5412's avatar to either the US flag or the Marine Corp flag.

He has earned them.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: DixieBelle on March 05, 2009, 09:34:23 PM
I second the motion rich!
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: rich_t on March 05, 2009, 09:34:52 PM
Hi,

I guess we were both posting at the same time.  Cub flag is fine, however after reading my last post feel free to change it if you think there is something more appropriate.

regards,
5412

OHHH...  I love the new avatar for 5412.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: rich_t on March 05, 2009, 09:37:53 PM
Hi again,

I actually fly the flag every day and put a light outside that goes on automatically when it gets dark and goes off when it is light in the morning.  Perhaps something with a flag would suit me just fine.  I have done that regularly since 9-11 and the good news is there are now three of them on display on our street.  My wife and I lived in our motor home for over a year and had a lot in Naples FL where we wintered.  I actually went out and bought a big flag pole, sunk it into the ground with concrete and ran it 20' in the air.  Within a month there were a dozen more that sprouted up.....

Let me tell you a story that I confessed to some friends who I have known for over 60 years.  When I was in high school, I helped make the upper half of the class possible.  Now when I enlisted into the Marine Corps (I was on the way to Parris Island ten days after graduation), I discovered my IQ was in the top 2% of the world.  You might make a case that I probably was the most efficient kid in my class, got passing grades from the least amount of effort.

Now in IL when I grew up, we had to pass a Constitution test to graduate from high school, both the US Constitution and the Illinois Constitution.  I took to that like a duck does to water.  Now we had somewhere around 150 in our graduating class and the social studies teacher announced I got the highest grade in the senior class on that test......no one would ever remember that, but I will never forget it because the implication was I must have cheated or been lucky.  A guy with a C- average just is not capable of doing that kind of work.  Hell I got much better grades in college because I was paying for it....

I tell you that because I really am a patriot.  When John Kennedy was killed I was in the Marine Corps Reserve at the time.  I learned they were going to have a 21 gun salute for him at Fort Sheridan.  I called my neighbor and another Marine, we got our uniforms on, drove well over an hour to get there, stood at attention saluting during the ceremony with tears running down our cheeks.  

During the Vietnam War, several of the leftist Hollywood types ran an ad in the London Times basically saying they did not support our government and the war.  I had too many friends over there, and their ass was hanging out to dry.  I called Wally Phillips, a Chicago disc jockey and said I do not think the Hollywood nitwits represent the bulk of Americans but I couldn't afford the money for an add, but I could contribute $5.  He picked up on that and within a matter of a couple hours raised over $20,000 and we bought an ad in the London Times saying that Americans are proud of their right of free speech, but do not misunderstand that these Hollywood types do not speak for us.  Included in the add was the number of people that contributed money for the add.  I still have a copy of it framed somewhere in an attic or something.

When Sam Nunn appointed my son to the Naval Academy we went and visited him in Washington to thank him.  Much to my surprise, we spent the better part of an hour with him and he and I corresponded regularly for quite some time.  Now he was a senator who was indeed a public servant.......unlike some we have now......which is why I blast away at Nelson.  On the other hand, I got a wonderful, and personal, note from Senator Martinez today regarding the stimulus package and one item I asked him to see if he could strike out.  Some of them still listen...

OK, that is a bit of who I am and my CORE beliefs.  With that being said, I will yield to your suggestion, you pick what you think would be an appropriate avatar.....and my wife walked in with the definition as I was typing this.

Thanks again,

5412

Semper Fi.

It's always nice to converse with a fellow veteran.  I really enjoy reading your posts.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Wretched Excess on March 05, 2009, 09:38:18 PM
the globe and anchor.  even a navy brat knows what that means. :bow:
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: THA HOUSTON PIMP IS IN DA HOUZ! on March 05, 2009, 10:20:56 PM
God Bless you 5412

What the Hell is wrong with Palin having sex appeal?

Where was the concern about JFK and Bubba's supposed "sex appeal"?

So what do these ding dong want from Palin?   Get a dyke closed cropped hairstyle a la Rachel Maddow and wear pant suits?

 :censored:
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Ptarmigan on March 05, 2009, 10:30:52 PM
Hi,

Some might have voted for him because he was black????   Only something like 94% of the black population.  What was the quote going around from MLK, "I look foreword to the day that a man is not judged by the color of his skin.  Seems to me that is exactly what the blacks did.

I really got pissed off when Colin Powell said how esctatic he was, "We finally made it!".  Yes Mr. Powell, you got a black guy elected who never held a job other than a community orgainzer, had the most liberal voting record in the senate, even worse than Kennedy, and was totally unqualified......but indeed be proud because he is black.  Yes General Powell he is your totally unqualified commander in chief, just pissed away a trillion dollars or pork projects but cut the pentagon budget by 10% and is putting the safety and security of the nation at risk.  I am sure you are quite proud sir......

It looks to me that the very few white folks took skin color into their decision, but racism is still alive and well in the black population.  Seems to me that BO is one of them and he is acting like it is payback time......

Sorry for the rant, that just struck a chord with me.

regards,
5412

Well said! As it turns out, Barack Obama is actually the seventh Black president in America. The previous six are:
1.) Thomas Jefferson
2.) Andrew Jackson
3.) Abraham Lincoln
4.) Warren G. Harding
5.) Calvin Coolidge
6.) Dwight Eisenhower

The public was very enthusiastic when Eisenhower was elected in 1952. In the 1920 Election, Blacks were encouraged to vote for Harding. Also, people were excited about Harding as well because he was born after the Civil War and was considered good looking, he had the "movie star" look at the time.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 05, 2009, 11:08:19 PM
Hi,

You make a good point.  I would like to draw your attention to one thing however.  Look at the list and all the others were elected before LBJ began with his great society.  The entitlement mentality really was turbocharged when he incentivized out of wedlock birth, it destroyed the black family, and set up several generations of people who totally expect that the government should give them money just because they are black. 

One of the many newsletters I get talked about how children of unwed mothers, particularly those on welfare never have a chance in life.  So few ever get out of the lowest poverty level.  First of all their mother bore them because SHE gets more money from the government.  Who the hell is their role model?  Rap singers and drug dealers????  Maybe some of the thugs in the NBA who fell asleep at the tattoo parlor?  The article I read pointed out that in the inner cities that more than 50% of the students drop out of high school and the government needs to do something about that....throw more entitlement money into the pot.  They are right, the government should do something, fix the cause and stop incentivizing out of wedlock birth.

Jeramiah Wright is correct when he says it is the evil, rich, greedy white man who has enslaved the blacks.  Where he is blind is this.  It is the democrat party who pay them just enough so they do not get off their ass and get a job.....instead they stay home, and vote democratic so they can keep getting their handouts.  It is further cemented with guys like Jesse Jackson, Wright and other who preach and spew such hatred, for their personal gain.  The democrat party keeps them economically enslaved on the government teat, and as long as that continues Rev. Wright, Jesse and others can make a fine living preaching their hatred.  Well hell that is the environment BO was in for 20+ years.  While he denied it, he was not asleep in church.......he heard that message drummed into his head most all his life.

You folks are probably too young to remember a comedienne named Flip Wilson.  One of his characters was named Geraldene and she was married to a preacher.  Well she goes out and gets a new dress and her husband keeps asking her why.....and the response was, "the devil made me do it!"  The preacher keeps pressing her until she is so frustrated she blurts out, "If it wasn't for the devil, you'd be out of a job!"

Someone asked Jackson, now that BO is elected our racial problems are solved right?  Boy did he jump on that one, "Oh no, we still have a long way to go."  Hell if he admitted to the fact that white folks, for the most part accept blacks and they have equal opportunity....he'd be out of a job.....which isn't such a bad idea.

Well this black president grew up in that environment.  I really think we have elected a smooth talking Rev. Wright, he is hell-bent on righting what he percieves to be all the evils that have been petpuated on his people over the years.

Yet when guys like Bill Cosby scold them about blowing one of the greatest chances in American history he is chastised.  When Clarence Thomas is appointed to the Supreme Court, he is chastised.  Any black person (other than entertainers and athletes) who works his/her tail off and made something of their lives are chastised unless they are democrats.

What is my point?  Unlike any president before him, black or white, this guy is really unqualified, has a chip on his shoulder, and his primary goal is redistribution of wealth.  Wait until they get done with health care and he starts on the idea of reparation for descendents of slaves.....

Stay tuned folks, it ain't gonna get any better until 2011.  By 2012 Mrs. Palin will be looking mighty fine to a whole lot of folks who voted democratic in the last election.....

regards,
5412
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 05, 2009, 11:28:07 PM
Semper Fi.

It's always nice to converse with a fellow veteran.  I really enjoy reading your posts.

Hi Rich,

While I enlisted, a war veteran I am not.  In retrospect I was very lucky.  I was too young for Korea and I enlisted in the reserves while I was in high school.  It was a way to serve your country and was not done to avoid the draft like some did in Vietnam.  I did my active duty, they regularly went to the meetings and summer camps until I was 25 years old.  In those days you took your two week vacation and went off to the military.  I came very close to being called up in the Kennedy missle crisis and would have gladly served at that time. 

Conversely, I had my honorable discharge before Vietnam really got going......although we were losing people over there in 1959, just most folks did not know it.

Remember the old book, "Everything I needed to know about life, I learned in kindegarden"?  Well for me I would have to say "Everything I needed to know about life I learned in the Marine Corps".  Let's just say I did not grow up in the best family environment and when I got out of high school I was beyond confused.  Boy once I got to PI, my life changed dramatically, and for the good I might add.

Did anyone see Glenn Beck tonight when he talked about the American Dream.  He said in America the real dream is you can start out with nothing and make something of yourself.  Most of the wealthy people in America today are folks that started their own business, worked their ass off and accumulated some money.  Well he was talking about me.  I started from nothing, then started over with nothing at 46 years old again.  Now the fact I worked 60-80 hours a week probably helped but those opportunities are there for everyone.  We had our high school 50th class reunion last summer.  The guy who was voted "most likely to succeed did not show up."  Last time I saw him he was 55 years old, driving a rusted out car and got pissed because I would not lend him $800.  I held an open house in my "summer home" just outside the country club owned by the guy who probably graduated 148th in a class of 150.  I am not joking when I tell you one of classmates was a farmer who bought a dump truck when he got out of high school.  He is now a billionaire (with a b), has a home next to Bill Gates in Palm Springs, but he is the same guy we all knew in high school.

Here is the punch line.  Anyone who has been in the Marine Corps knows where the drive came from for me anyway.  Anyone from that background knows pretty much right from wrong.  I was just damn lucky that my life turned out the way it did, the Marine Corps took a screwed up 17 year old kid and showed him the way.  On a personal note, I am one who believes they never should have discontinued the draft.  Forget the military purpose for a moment, there were thousands of guys like me that were going nowhere that got drafted in the army, came back a few years later a much different person with a decent set of values and work ethic.  It is a shame that young people today are not afforded those opportunities.

And finally, if something ever happened to my wife, I would honestly try to enlist back in the Marine Corps.  Oh I am 40 pounds overweight, can't run worth a damn, can shoot pretty good, but there is lots of jobs I could do that would free up a younger person for a more important assignment.  I would do that for nothing.....

regards,
5412
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Wineslob on March 06, 2009, 10:04:39 AM
Complete BS. McCain tanked the whole thing. Besides, having ALL the media trashing her every day, diden't help...............did it?
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Attero Dominatus on March 06, 2009, 11:07:22 AM
Wineslob is right. It was a combination of McShame's half-assed campaign and the smear attacks against her.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Ptarmigan on March 06, 2009, 11:48:41 AM
Hi,

You make a good point.  I would like to draw your attention to one thing however.  Look at the list and all the others were elected before LBJ began with his great society.  The entitlement mentality really was turbocharged when he incentivized out of wedlock birth, it destroyed the black family, and set up several generations of people who totally expect that the government should give them money just because they are black. 

One of the many newsletters I get talked about how children of unwed mothers, particularly those on welfare never have a chance in life.  So few ever get out of the lowest poverty level.  First of all their mother bore them because SHE gets more money from the government.  Who the hell is their role model?  Rap singers and drug dealers????  Maybe some of the thugs in the NBA who fell asleep at the tattoo parlor?  The article I read pointed out that in the inner cities that more than 50% of the students drop out of high school and the government needs to do something about that....throw more entitlement money into the pot.  They are right, the government should do something, fix the cause and stop incentivizing out of wedlock birth.

Jeramiah Wright is correct when he says it is the evil, rich, greedy white man who has enslaved the blacks.  Where he is blind is this.  It is the democrat party who pay them just enough so they do not get off their ass and get a job.....instead they stay home, and vote democratic so they can keep getting their handouts.  It is further cemented with guys like Jesse Jackson, Wright and other who preach and spew such hatred, for their personal gain.  The democrat party keeps them economically enslaved on the government teat, and as long as that continues Rev. Wright, Jesse and others can make a fine living preaching their hatred.  Well hell that is the environment BO was in for 20+ years.  While he denied it, he was not asleep in church.......he heard that message drummed into his head most all his life.

You folks are probably too young to remember a comedienne named Flip Wilson.  One of his characters was named Geraldene and she was married to a preacher.  Well she goes out and gets a new dress and her husband keeps asking her why.....and the response was, "the devil made me do it!"  The preacher keeps pressing her until she is so frustrated she blurts out, "If it wasn't for the devil, you'd be out of a job!"

Someone asked Jackson, now that BO is elected our racial problems are solved right?  Boy did he jump on that one, "Oh no, we still have a long way to go."  Hell if he admitted to the fact that white folks, for the most part accept blacks and they have equal opportunity....he'd be out of a job.....which isn't such a bad idea.

Well this black president grew up in that environment.  I really think we have elected a smooth talking Rev. Wright, he is hell-bent on righting what he percieves to be all the evils that have been petpuated on his people over the years.

Yet when guys like Bill Cosby scold them about blowing one of the greatest chances in American history he is chastised.  When Clarence Thomas is appointed to the Supreme Court, he is chastised.  Any black person (other than entertainers and athletes) who works his/her tail off and made something of their lives are chastised unless they are democrats.

What is my point?  Unlike any president before him, black or white, this guy is really unqualified, has a chip on his shoulder, and his primary goal is redistribution of wealth.  Wait until they get done with health care and he starts on the idea of reparation for descendents of slaves.....

Stay tuned folks, it ain't gonna get any better until 2011.  By 2012 Mrs. Palin will be looking mighty fine to a whole lot of folks who voted democratic in the last election.....

regards,
5412

Yes, you are right my friend. They were all elected before LBJ. Before the Great Society, crime rate and illegitimate births were much lower among Blacks. Blacks had strong families. Yeah, I was a kid when Clarence Thomas was being appointed and it was a farce. I was pissed about it and still am because it brought sexual harassment to the forefront.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 06, 2009, 04:41:45 PM
Yes, you are right my friend. They were all elected before LBJ. Before the Great Society, crime rate and illegitimate births were much lower among Blacks. Blacks had strong families. Yeah, I was a kid when Clarence Thomas was being appointed and it was a farce. I was pissed about it and still am because it brought sexual harassment to the forefront.

Hi,

The biggest farce in the Clarence Thomas appointment was the group of democrat senators on the judiciary committee discussing ethics.  I know Biden and Kennedy were two of them, but all on the committee were tainted with ethics issues beyond belief and they were sitting on their pompous butts taking cheap shots at Thomas.

Of course the old saying holds true, "Things that don't change, remain the same."


regards,
5412
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Bluesuiter-Retired on March 07, 2009, 10:58:43 AM
Liberals are just jealous

Has anyone ever seen an attractice female dem/lib?

EXAMPLES --- Nancy Pelosi, Hitlery Clinton :rotf:
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Lacarnut on March 07, 2009, 11:55:07 AM
You folks are probably too young to remember a comedienne named Flip Wilson.  One of his characters was named Geraldene and she was married to a preacher.  Well she goes out and gets a new dress and her husband keeps asking her why.....and the response was, "the devil made me do it!"  The preacher keeps pressing her until she is so frustrated she blurts out, "If it wasn't for the devil, you'd be out of a job!"

Someone asked Jackson, now that BO is elected our racial problems are solved right?  Boy did he jump on that one, "Oh no, we still have a long way to go."  Hell if he admitted to the fact that white folks, for the most part accept blacks and they have equal opportunity....he'd be out of a job.....which isn't such a bad idea.

Well this black president grew up in that environment.  I really think we have elected a smooth talking Rev. Wright, he is hell-bent on righting what he percieves to be all the evils that have been petpuated on his people over the years.

Yet when guys like Bill Cosby scold them about blowing one of the greatest chances in American history he is chastised.  When Clarence Thomas is appointed to the Supreme Court, he is chastised.  Any black person (other than entertainers and athletes) who works his/her tail off and made something of their lives are chastised unless they are democrats.

What is my point?  Unlike any president before him, black or white, this guy is really unqualified, has a chip on his shoulder, and his primary goal is redistribution of wealth.  Wait until they get done with health care and he starts on the idea of reparation for descendents of slaves.....

Stay tuned folks, it ain't gonna get any better until 2011.  By 2012 Mrs. Palin will be looking mighty fine to a whole lot of folks who voted democratic in the last election.....

regards,
5412

I enjoy your eloquent posts. Like you, I am older than dirt who served in the service between Korea and V.N. Point being is that many of those that voted for Obama are too young to have experienced the hard times during the Carter years where jobs were hard to find, the economy was in the tank, home mortgage rates were at 17%, long gas lines and people felt crappy about themselves and their government. Even though things are bad at the present time, I don't think they are as bad as those malaise days of the late 70's and early 80's.

66% of the 18 to 29 age group voted for Obama. That accounted for almost 20% of the total votes in the presidential election. If the decline of jobs continues, many of those will either lose their jobs or will not be able to find a job when they graduate. However, that may be Obama's plan. Increase unemployment so that the government will take care of you or go on the government payroll. If you want a job, the locals, states and feds are hiring like crazy. Pretty soon we will not produce anything and there will be more people working for government than in the private sector. This could be Obama's and the liberals plan to enact a socialistic/commie regime in the USA. On the other hand, many of these younguns may not be too happy with not being able to find a job or working for government at a lower salary. So with higher taxes, fewer jobs and being saddled with debt, it might be that those younuns will vote with their wallet the next time around.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 08, 2009, 09:47:42 AM
I enjoy your eloquent posts. Like you, I am older than dirt who served in the service between Korea and V.N. Point being is that many of those that voted for Obama are too young to have experienced the hard times during the Carter years where jobs were hard to find, the economy was in the tank, home mortgage rates were at 17%, long gas lines and people felt crappy about themselves and their government. Even though things are bad at the present time, I don't think they are as bad as those malaise days of the late 70's and early 80's.

66% of the 18 to 29 age group voted for Obama. That accounted for almost 20% of the total votes in the presidential election. If the decline of jobs continues, many of those will either lose their jobs or will not be able to find a job when they graduate. However, that may be Obama's plan. Increase unemployment so that the government will take care of you or go on the government payroll. If you want a job, the locals, states and feds are hiring like crazy. Pretty soon we will not produce anything and there will be more people working for government than in the private sector. This could be Obama's and the liberals plan to enact a socialistic/commie regime in the USA. On the other hand, many of these younguns may not be too happy with not being able to find a job or working for government at a lower salary. So with higher taxes, fewer jobs and being saddled with debt, it might be that those younuns will vote with their wallet the next time around.

Good Morning,

Greetings from Phoenix, here for two weeks.

Didn't Hitler have a great appeal to the youth??  I think you make a good point about the young folks.  I am afraid you might be right.  The thing the young folks do not get is this.  If BO continues on his present path, we will be at war.. 

BO will get rid of us by taking away our health care.  When they look at "cost effectiveness" health care for seniors is it pretty simple.  Take the cost of the care and either add the taxes they pay and subtract that from the cost.....or add the social security they get and add it to the cost of the care and then make your "cost effective" government decision.

Don't treat the seniors and you get one more person off social security so you can take that money and reward the disadvantaged who have never paid any taxes...if you get my drift.

regards,
5412

regards,
5412





Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: docstew on March 08, 2009, 11:50:11 AM
to add to 5412's point, after the "cost effective" decision, there will be a higher percentage of the electorate being "the youth vote", because those decisions will remove another member of a consistently conservative voting block.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Lacarnut on March 08, 2009, 08:31:24 PM
Good Morning,

Greetings from Phoenix, here for two weeks.

Didn't Hitler have a great appeal to the youth??  I think you make a good point about the young folks.  I am afraid you might be right.  The thing the young folks do not get is this.  If BO continues on his present path, we will be at war.. 

BO will get rid of us by taking away our health care.  When they look at "cost effectiveness" health care for seniors is it pretty simple.  Take the cost of the care and either add the taxes they pay and subtract that from the cost.....or add the social security they get and add it to the cost of the care and then make your "cost effective" government decision.

Don't treat the seniors and you get one more person off social security so you can take that money and reward the disadvantaged who have never paid any taxes...if you get my drift.

regards,
5412


Kids and adults today are more materialistic than idealistic. Especially about the things they think that they are entitled to like a car, a nice house, TV, stereo system, cell phone, etc. etc. Back in Hitler's day, times were tough. Obama may think that he has the youth vote in his back pocket but if this economy goes into the dumps, they will turn on him. At least that is my opinion. I just do not see how Obama could pull off getting reelected if the economy does not turn around; this will not be a FDR repeat.

Health care is a big issue with me. I have 2 health care policies. If he screws with what I have, I will pack my stuff up and move to Panama. They have American doctors there, use the dollar as their currency, have numerous American banks, 20 year property tax exemptions, expats have more benefits than any place in the world, no income tax on foreign income and welcome Americans. I have considered moving there before Obama was elected. I will not live in a country where some bureaucrat tells me when I can go see specialist or what hospital I have to go to. Heck, I hate HMO's; so a universal health care system is out of the question for me. 
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 08, 2009, 10:58:56 PM
Kids and adults today are more materialistic than idealistic. Especially about the things they think that they are entitled to like a car, a nice house, TV, stereo system, cell phone, etc. etc. Back in Hitler's day, times were tough. Obama may think that he has the youth vote in his back pocket but if this economy goes into the dumps, they will turn on him. At least that is my opinion. I just do not see how Obama could pull off getting reelected if the economy does not turn around; this will not be a FDR repeat.

Health care is a big issue with me. I have 2 health care policies. If he screws with what I have, I will pack my stuff up and move to Panama. They have American doctors there, use the dollar as their currency, have numerous American banks, 20 year property tax exemptions, expats have more benefits than any place in the world, no income tax on foreign income and welcome Americans. I have considered moving there before Obama was elected. I will not live in a country where some bureaucrat tells me when I can go see specialist or what hospital I have to go to. Heck, I hate HMO's; so a universal health care system is out of the question for me. 

Hi,

I have a question.....and a suggestion.

Having investigated places to go, both Panama and Costa Rica which have some American presence, are names that come up frequently.  At the same time, folks who have been there say basically you are living withing a small land mass and it is not safe to go off the resrervation.  Do you have any information about safe areas in Central America???

My suggestion to you is this.  If you think you may want to leave this country, and who can blame you, my suggestion is you better start moving your money to a safe haven now while you still can.  The stuff I am reading is that there is a good chance they will stop the money fleeing the country basically saying you cannot take money out of the country.  Particularly with the push back they are getting from the Swiss folks, that may be their next step. 

Once they stop money from going out of the country, then the next step is to confiscate the gold by buying it from you for worthless paper dollars.  Roosevelt did that, bought the gold from the public at $20/oz. then, once he confiscated it, declared it to be worth $35 oz. which basically deflated the currency by $60.

Bottom line is the government has already passed laws that say if you leave the country, you can go but you will be taxed as though you died, and you can take the rest of your money with you.....and you cannot come back.  I can forsee the day they will say you can go, but you just cannot take money with you.

Right now there are hundreds of millions of dollars being taken out of this country by folks like you and I who are afraid of what is going on.

regards,
5412
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Chris_ on March 08, 2009, 11:50:56 PM
Kids and adults today are more materialistic than idealistic. Especially about the things they think that they are entitled to like a car, a nice house, TV, stereo system, cell phone, etc. etc. Back in Hitler's day, times were tough. Obama may think that he has the youth vote in his back pocket but if this economy goes into the dumps, they will turn on him. At least that is my opinion. I just do not see how Obama could pull off getting reelected if the economy does not turn around; this will not be a FDR repeat.

Health care is a big issue with me. I have 2 health care policies. If he screws with what I have, I will pack my stuff up and move to Panama. They have American doctors there, use the dollar as their currency, have numerous American banks, 20 year property tax exemptions, expats have more benefits than any place in the world, no income tax on foreign income and welcome Americans. I have considered moving there before Obama was elected. I will not live in a country where some bureaucrat tells me when I can go see specialist or what hospital I have to go to. Heck, I hate HMO's; so a universal health care system is out of the question for me. 

Interesting that you should bring up Panama,  as Mrs. doc and myself are looking at moving down there as well.  With the official currency being the dollar, and the tax benefits for "pensioners", it looks like a great place to hide out.  Health insurance is quite inexpensive, and according to what we've read, the quality of care, particularly in the expat communities is excellent.

We are applying for a 90-day visa, and might go down there in the fall to have a look around.  Can't really place too much stock in internet real estate sites, but based on what I see, you can buy a pretty nice "villa" on the beach, in a gated area, for around 300 grand.........I can learn to live with that.

doc
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: rich_t on March 08, 2009, 11:55:52 PM
I understand the desire by some to "get out" while they still can.

But as for me, I'd rather stay and fight.  As far as I am concerned; I have to.  The oath I took didn't come with an expiration date.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: Lacarnut on March 09, 2009, 02:16:58 AM
Hi,

I have a question.....and a suggestion.

Having investigated places to go, both Panama and Costa Rica which have some American presence, are names that come up frequently.  At the same time, folks who have been there say basically you are living withing a small land mass and it is not safe to go off the resrervation.  Do you have any information about safe areas in Central America???

My suggestion to you is this.  If you think you may want to leave this country, and who can blame you, my suggestion is you better start moving your money to a safe haven now while you still can.  The stuff I am reading is that there is a good chance they will stop the money fleeing the country basically saying you cannot take money out of the country.  Particularly with the push back they are getting from the Swiss folks, that may be their next step. 

Once they stop money from going out of the country, then the next step is to confiscate the gold by buying it from you for worthless paper dollars.  Roosevelt did that, bought the gold from the public at $20/oz. then, once he confiscated it, declared it to be worth $35 oz. which basically deflated the currency by $60.

Bottom line is the government has already passed laws that say if you leave the country, you can go but you will be taxed as though you died, and you can take the rest of your money with you.....and you cannot come back.  I can forsee the day they will say you can go, but you just cannot take money with you.

Right now there are hundreds of millions of dollars being taken out of this country by folks like you and I who are afraid of what is going on.

regards,
5412

$10k is the limit that you can posses when you travel to another country. An individual that is not an expat can not deposit funds directly into an American bank in Panama. You have go thru an attorney and set up either a business account or some type of corporation. After you jump thru that legal hurdle, I think you can wire any amount to them. It is not like you laundering money. This is money that you have paid taxes on. I might be wrong on that assertion but I don't think so. What the Feds are trying to do is collect taxes on income that an individual made whether he made it in this country or abroad. What is strange is that their money market accounts thru American banks are paying 4 and 5 per cent. I am getting half that amount. You don't have that FDIC thingy though.

I don't know of any other countries in S.A. that would have as stable a government as Panama. I worked with a lady that was from there. She loves it there but can make much more money in the states.

Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: RobJohnson on March 09, 2009, 02:30:55 AM
I will not live in a country where some bureaucrat tells me when I can go see specialist or what hospital I have to go to. Heck, I hate HMO's; so a universal health care system is out of the question for me. 

True, some insurance companies have a "preferred" hospital but you always have the option of going where you want, if you are willing to pay the higher co-pay.

National health care would be a huge train wreck.
Title: Re: Sex Appeal May Have Hurt Sarah Palin
Post by: 5412 on March 09, 2009, 09:29:47 AM
HI,

This is in response to the last few posts.

Doc---Sure would appreciate your comments after your visit, that would really help.

As far as taking money out, I realize you can only take $10,000.  At the same time we still can invest overseas for the moment.  I am moving some of my IRA money....legally...to another country.  The goal is not to avoid taxes as the IRS is squawking about but rather to have it outside the US.  The reason is this.  If one decided to leave the country, the money you have outside the US is indeed already there and is portable.  Let's say for example, you bought some Swiss government bonds, denominated in Swiss francs.  You want the income converted to dollars and sent to Panama, no problem.  If you are still a US citizen, you pay taxes on the income like always but at least you have money to live on.

At our age, my wife and I have decided to stay here if possible.  I would rather die fighting for a cause than drooling in my Cheerios in a nursing home.  At the same time should one of us be denied health care we may be left with no choice but to go elsewhere....much like Canadians are doing now when they come to the US.

Personally, I see a few items that could send us into some sort of revolution, either a situation where states secede to maintain their sovereignty, or a racial civil war.....health care and confiscation of weapons to defend ourselves fit that category.

Let's hope the group of so called moderate Democrats see it the same way and head it off before it comes to pass.

Have a good day,
5412