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Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: LC EFA on March 01, 2009, 04:20:56 AM

Title: OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot
Post by: LC EFA on March 01, 2009, 04:20:56 AM
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HughBeaumont  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Sat Feb-28-09 04:58 PM
Original message
OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot because I don't get it.   Updated at 5:03 PM
   
Republicans are 100% dead against taxing the rich, right? "Can't help the wage earner by hurting the wage payer" and all that, RIGHT?

Their logic is, if I'm reading guys like Chip Reid correctly, that if you raise taxes on the wealthy and the businesses they run, that will lead to them not hire since they'll supposedly have less capital to work with and they "aren't just gonna EAT it" (a whopper of a fallacy since PROFITS are taxed and EXPENSES are deducted); but if you lower their taxes, that will lead to them to put more into their businesses and create jobs (that is, if you took the monorail to Fantasyland. Reality dictates otherwise).

Republicans are pretty much against taxing everyone else also, right? "MY gunz, MY moneh, MY Freedums" and all that, right? That's why all of these so-called "Tea Parties for Taxophobes" are happening, right? So they can shift blame for this economic debacle from themselves for VOTING for Reagan or the two Bewshs or Ron Paul and supporting unbridled low-tax corporatism to "lazy deadbeats" and "Tax-n-Spendocrats", right? Nice little convenience there. Wonder where these people were when Republicans were genuinely wasting their tax money on vanity wars, AIG exec junkets or rich people's lotteries?

Republicans are also against ending Bewsh's vanity wars, which have proven to be and still are, costly boondoggles designed to further siphon billions of tax dollars from our grandchildren's pockets on a monthly basis and more or less continue to be KBR's, Bechtol's and Halliburton's personal mints. Yet the Pentasewer still wants more and more tax booty to fund these useless occupations. This despite the fact people are losing jobs left and right at home and money isn't circulating because CEOs aren't stopping the firing, leaving their workers scared as hell. Yeah. Amazing.

So let me see if I got this right. If taxing the rich is bad for bidness, and we want to lower taxes on everyone else even further, and businesses aren't hiring despite having the lowest top tax bracket in 75 years, which results in money NOT circulating in the economy, and we've spiraled further and further into debt thanks to 28 years of Republicanomics and Republicans want to continue two wasteful wars all for the purpose of "finishin' the fight" . . .

WHERE did they honestly think the money would COME from to . . . you know . . . RUN THIS COUNTRY? WHERE? Seriously, I'm all ears.

Anybody got a ROAD map to this supposed revenue? Explain this to me like I'm a complete IDIOT because I don't get it.

In their lollipop world of money trees, debt fairies, homes filled with good Republican small business owners and two Hummers in each driveway, where does the money COME from to run the country?

Is that whole . . . "trickle down" thing going to happen "any day now" or do I have to wait a leeeetle bit longer?

I guess I'm asking for someone to do the impossible.

I'm asking you to THINK . . . like a REPUBLICAN.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5157253

The OP is just your standard form DU'er trying to look smart. Not really worth addressing because they don't actually want an answer.

Some of the responses are interesting.

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HughBeaumont  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Sat Feb-28-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Maybe I should have one of THEM explain it to me.   Updated at 5:03 PM
   
Mods, can you take a 1-day break and let a few of these clowns in our building . . . just so they can enlighten me? Then you can kick them out once they get too liquored up?

Somehow I doubt $kammer and your fellow inmates would be up for that. His mail server only has so much disk for alerted post messages.

Second the only reason you'd ask this is if you were sure no one was going to be able to respond.

How about you come over here and play ?

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hack89  (1000+ posts) Sat Feb-28-09 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. Their argument is that it is not a zero sum game
   
What they argue is that a smaller percentage of a much bigger(and growing) pie is better than a larger percentage of a smaller (and static/shrinking) pie.

More companies, more workers all paying taxes is where the money to run the country comes from.


At least that is what my BIL says. ;)

If you didn't have that caveat at the end there I'd call you a Lousy Freeper Troll.

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ThomWV  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Sat Feb-28-09 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. If the rich don't want to be taxed so heavily they shouldn't pay themselves so much.

I wonder if the dummie understands the consequences of that suggestion.

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bluesmail  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Sat Feb-28-09 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. NWO. They want one government ruling the World. New World Order eom

Hang on. Isn't it you leftist vermin that are constantly bitching about world opinion ("The euro-peons don't like it") and wanting to become a UN puppet state ?

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napi21  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Sat Feb-28-09 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
17. They really don't want gov't at all! They want private business to run
   
everything, they want to do away with SS, Welfare, education grants, gov't soonsored research, ALL OF IT! Remember, their core principal is "everyone is responsible for himself, and if you can't succeed or survive, that's YOUR FAULT!"

There are some things that an elected government should be responsible for, examples being protecting the market from influence by main force, protecting the borders, and maintaining a "standing army".

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surrealAmerican  (1000+ posts) Sat Feb-28-09 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
20. Republicans are afraid to tell you where they expect the money to come from...
   
... because they expect it to come from the poor. In their rose-colored world, the wealthy don't pay taxes. They hire poor people to do their work, at very low wages. These low-wage workers are the ones who pay taxes. Since welfare, food stamps, social security, etc. no longer exist, the poor need to take whatever work they can find. Should they become unable to work, they die.

Strawman. Not worth addressing.

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hfojvt  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Sat Feb-28-09 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
29. yew shore don't get it a tall
   
Why the hail do yew think the gubmint needs this revenoo?

Check this out.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/95

social security payments - 457.7*
disability - 91.2*
railroad retirement - 5.6
military retirement - 41.1
civil service retirement - 54.8
veterans benefits - 31.0
unemployment compensation - 31.9 *
medicare - 375.6*
schip - 5.5 *
medicaid - 180.6 *
veterans medical - 24.4
other medical - 19.9*
assistance to students - 51.7*
housing assistance - 32.1 *
food stamps and other - 53.8 *
SSI - 34.3 *
TANF - 20.9 *
liheap - 2.6 *
EITC - 36.2*
other assistance - 31.1 *

Right there is 1.425 trillion in gubmint waste. Get rid of all that waste and then the economy will take off and provide jobs - for everybody who really wants a job, that is.

You know how you can tell if somebody wants a job? They will work their a$$ off for $2 an hour just like they did in the 1820s. That's what made this country great - hard work.

I'm trying to work out if you are being sarcastic or if you are a Lousy Freeper Troll.
Title: Re: OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot
Post by: JohnnyReb on March 01, 2009, 06:15:36 AM
"I'm a complete idiot".......just about the only fact I saw. :whatever:
Title: Re: OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot
Post by: Vagabond on March 01, 2009, 08:06:39 AM
"I'm a complete idiot".......just about the only fact I saw. :whatever:
I would try to explain it to them, but I would have to get stupid drunk first.  So, that plan is pretty much out the window.
Title: Re: OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot
Post by: Airwolf on March 01, 2009, 10:21:23 AM
We teach them ,yet they do not learn.

Why bother. it's easier for us when this country goes to shit to deal with them in a more effective manner. We'll kick their asses and make them rue the day they destroyed this country with their liberal socialist ideas
Title: Re: OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on March 01, 2009, 10:25:10 AM
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a whopper of a fallacy since PROFITS are taxed and EXPENSES are deducted

Only a 'whopper' if assume sales are unlimited.  Moran.
Title: Re: OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot
Post by: jukin on March 01, 2009, 10:27:22 AM
I was going to post something but this guy did it better.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. "

Sir Winston Churchill
Title: Re: OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot
Post by: Duke Nukum on March 01, 2009, 01:44:06 PM
Sadly the "trickle down" thing worked so well a lot of freedom-hating liberals got rich enough to get an empty suit elected and attack the rich.

And the rich progressives still aren't happy and never will be.  Nothing will ever make a liberal happy becaues their nature is to be unhappy and complain about everything.

Fairness to a liberal is everybody being equally miserable.  There is nothing anywhere in their socialistic ideology that speaks to the simple joy being alive and pursuing happiness.

Zip, zero, nada.  It's an ideology based on hate and envy.  Fear and Chaos.  Phobos and Deimos.  These people truly are the children of Ares. 
Title: Re: OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot
Post by: BlueStateSaint on March 01, 2009, 03:05:59 PM
Fairness to a liberal is everybody being equally miserable.

Even though I have espoused this very principle, it's only partially true.  If they are not miserable, and everyone else is,  that is fair to them.
Title: Re: OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot
Post by: Duke Nukum on March 01, 2009, 08:01:30 PM
Even though I have espoused this very principle, it's only partially true.  If they are not miserable, and everyone else is,  that is fair to them.
But they are liberals, by definition they are never not miserable.
Title: Re: OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot
Post by: BlueStateSaint on March 02, 2009, 03:52:39 AM
But they are liberals, by definition they are never not miserable.

True, but there's always the exception to the rule.
Title: Re: OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot
Post by: Chris_ on March 02, 2009, 10:59:56 AM
I would try to explain it to them, but I would have to get stupid drunk first.  So, that plan is pretty much out the window.

I hear TiT's available...
Title: Re: OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot
Post by: USA4ME on March 02, 2009, 03:17:08 PM
Start out with a false premise and then cry "Explain this to me like I'm a complete IDIOT because I don't get it."

OK, here's your answer.

Quote from:
Their logic is, if I'm reading guys like Chip Reid correctly, that if you raise taxes on the wealthy and the businesses they run, that will lead to them not hire since they'll supposedly have less capital to work with and they "aren't just gonna EAT it" (a whopper of a fallacy since PROFITS are taxed and EXPENSES are deducted); but if you lower their taxes, that will lead to them to put more into their businesses and create jobs (that is, if you took the monorail to Fantasyland. Reality dictates otherwise).

Simple round numbers for illustration purposes only.

Business makes $10,000 gross income (pre-tax).  Expenses (minus payroll) are $2,000.  Four employees make $1,000 each.  Owner makes $2,000. Taxes are $1,000.  Net profit is $1,000.

Quote from:
... if you raise taxes on the wealthy and the businesses they run, that will lead to them not hire since they'll supposedly have less capital to work ...

OK, taxes are raised to $1500.

Business makes $10,000 gross income (pre-tax).  Expenses (minus payroll) are $2,000.  Four employees make $1,000 each.  Owner makes $2,000. Taxes are $1,500.  Net profit is $500.

In the example above, you've reduced my "capital to work with" by 50%.  That is less money for me to raise wages, or lay out capital expenditures in order to be able to produce more and therefore create increased gross income, which would lead to the need to hire more employees.

Quote from:
... but if you lower their taxes, that will lead to them to put more into their businesses and create jobs ...

OK, taxes are lowered to $500.

Business makes $10,000 gross income (pre-tax).  Expenses (minus payroll) are $2,000.  Four employees make $1,000 each.  Owner makes $2,000. Taxes are $500.  Net profit is $1,500.

In the example above, I've increased my "capital to work with" by 50%.  That is more money for me to raise wages, or lay out capital expenditures in order to be able to produce more and therefore create increased gross income,  which would lead to the need to hire more employees.

There it is, very simple to understand.  I guarantee you the HughBeaumont primitive, nor any of his worthless ilk, still won't understand it.  Of course, from reading his post, he's so dumb he believes that businesses that have more income, more often than not, don't use that income to either increase wages (to both the owner and the employees) or use it for capital expenditures.  Someone like that is too  :mental: to try and discuss standard business practices, they've already decided things happen they way they want to believe they do anyway.

This statement....

Quote from:
... they "aren't just gonna EAT it" (a whopper of a fallacy since PROFITS are taxed and EXPENSES are deducted)

... is from someone who has obviously never owned and operated their own business.  It the typical mentality of "It didn't really cost anything because it's a business expense," which is nothing less than childish stupidity.  There's nothing really more to add to that.

.
Title: Re: OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot
Post by: Karin on March 02, 2009, 03:30:15 PM
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It the typical mentality of "It didn't really cost anything because it's a business expense,"

I know a guy (in the DU mental ilk), who thinks along these lines when it comes to mortgage interest.  He thinks because it's tax deductible, it's free.   My ex's head almost exploded from trying to explain the truth to him.  He just wouldn't get it. 

Title: Re: OK, explain this to me like I'm a complete idiot
Post by: Chris_ on March 02, 2009, 03:37:07 PM
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Republicans are 100% dead against taxing the rich, right?
Uh, no, retard. Republicans and/or conservatives are against punishing people for their hard work.