The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: Wretched Excess on February 12, 2009, 11:55:37 PM
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(http://www.foxnews.com/images/504501/2_21_a450.jpg)
New York state police say a 50-seat commuter plane has crashed into a home in suburban Buffalo
Fire officials say there were no survivors. It's not clear how many people were on the plane.
State Trooper John Manthey says the plane hit a house in Clarence around 10:10 p.m. Thursday
Link (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=6868762)
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more details . . .
Plane crashes into house in suburban Buffalo
(CNN) -- A plane crashed into a house in Clarence Center, a suburb of Buffalo, New York, on late Thursday, according to authorities.
Local media reported that the plane was Continental Flight 3407 from Newark, New Jersey, carrying 48 passengers, according to the FAA. The aircraft has seating capacity of 74, officials said.
The plane went down shortly after 10 p.m., hitting a home and bursting into a fireball, according to New York State Trooper John Manthey. The wreckage from the plane is still smoldering.
The accident took place about seven miles from Buffalo Niagara International Airport.
Link (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/13/plane.crash.new.york/index.html)
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I'm hearing all 48 on the plane and one on the ground are dead.
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My first thought was weather. Lots of severe turbulence in that region of the US last night, but since this was at Buffalo, I don't think that was the issue. We where using them as an Alternate location, so there weather was expected to be good. Just some snow showers in the area.
My condolences to the families. :(
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Sounds like it might have been rime ice or icing conditions. What confuses me is that the pilots apparently didn't even call out any type of distress. This must have happened pretty quickly. That said, 2300 ft isn't all that great of an altitude, from which I understand that was where they were at, on approach.
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Sounds like it might have been rime ice or icing conditions. What confuses me is that the pilots apparently didn't even call out any type of distress. This must have happened pretty quickly. That said, 2300 ft isn't all that great of an altitude, from which I understand that was where they were at, on approach.
Looking at their ob trends, I'm seeing something intersting. Right at the time they crashed the airport reported freezing rain, but issued a correction minutes later changing it to snow. The surface temperature was to high for it to be freezing rain and the original observation was most likely made by an automated sensor that was corrected by the observer when he noticed the mistake. It is possible that if there really was liquid precip, and that could have been a bad issue once you got 1,000 feet up or so. The surface of the aircraft may have been cold enough for that liquid to freeze on contact, causing the moderate to severe icing. I'm looking at the sounding taken 4 hours prior to that though, and i'm not seeing it capable of supporting liquid precip. The freezing layer was only about 500ft up, with no warm layer. The tools just weren't there for freezing rain, or even for liquid precip higher up. Turbulence wasn't an issue, surface visibility was 4 miles, the ceiling was at 800ft, but that should not have been any issue at all since Buffalo's airfield minimums are 200ft.
So in my opinion there had to be another cause.
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could be another cause. A witness reported that the engine was heard "sputtering". However, being dual engine, I don't think that it would crash on a single engine approach unless it was at maximum take off weight.
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could be another cause. A witness reported that the engine was heard "sputtering". However, being dual engine, I don't think that it would crash on a single engine approach unless it was at maximum take off weight.
With a seating capacity of 74 it was about 2/3 full. I have been on commuter plane flights where people have been asked to deplane due to weight or even change sears to balance, so they do check that (I assume it is the same for all airlines).
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With a seating capacity of 74 it was about 2/3 full. I have been on commuter plane flights where people have been asked to deplane due to weight or even change sears to balance, so they do check that (I assume it is the same for all airlines).
I did operations for Delta Airlines a while ago. Weight & Balance is critical in some aircraft and not so critical in others. MD80s are very critical, while 37s and 57s aren't as finicky. I suspect that this wouldn't be the issue if the capacity was 74 souls.
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Posted by: Thor
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could be another cause. A witness reported that the engine was heard "sputtering". However, being dual engine, I don't think that it would crash on a single engine approach unless it was at maximum take off weight.
With a seating capacity of 74 it was about 2/3 full. I have been on commuter plane flights where people have been asked to deplane due to weight or even change sears to balance, so they do check that (I assume it is the same for all airlines).
Thats what I do for a living. I don't work any Express flights but
all our takeoff/landing data at CO is based on a "one engine out" scenario.
I'm sure Express is the same. From what I've been hearing down the grapevine,
icing conditions played a part.
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I did operations for Delta Airlines a while ago. Weight & Balance is critical in some aircraft and not so critical in others. MD80s are very critical, while 37s and 57s aren't as finicky. I suspect that this wouldn't be the issue if the capacity was 74 souls.
MD80s aren't that bad. I don't like the B737-500/900 aircraft. I love the B757-200/300 aircraft.
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WASHINGTON – Up until the very last moments of her life, Sept. 11 widow Beverly Eckert poured her grief into action — pushing presidents, lawmakers and even herself to do more to make the country safer.
Eckert was on a commuter plane approaching the Buffalo airport Thursday night when it nose-dived into the ground, killing all aboard and one person on the ground.
President Barack Obama, speaking in the White House's East Room Friday, said Eckert "was an inspiration to me and to so many others, and I pray that her family finds peace and comfort in the hard days ahead."
Just a week before her death, Eckert met with Obama at the White House as part of a group of 9/11 families and relatives of those killed in the bombing of the USS Cole, discussing how the new administration would handle terror suspects.
Eckert was traveling to Buffalo to celebrate what would have been her late husband Sean Rooney's 58th birthday.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090213/ap_on_re_us/plane_into_home9_11_widow
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MD80s aren't that bad. I don't like the B737-500/900 aircraft. I love the B757-200/300 aircraft.
When I was doing operations, the MD90s were terrible (sorry, I said MD88). I've had to have the ramp crew move cargo and luggage from one bin to another about once a week. Very rarely did I have to do that with any other aircraft. And the little CRJs that we had for ComAir, only have one luggage compartment, so those were a non-issue. My fav was the 57. I don't know why, but I liked those.
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When I was doing operations, the MD90s were terrible (sorry, I said MD88). I've had to have the ramp crew move cargo and luggage from one bin to another about once a week. Very rarely did I have to do that with any other aircraft. And the little CRJs that we had for ComAir, only have one luggage compartment, so those were a non-issue. My fav was the 57. I don't know why, but I liked those.
They remind of the old B727-100/200s. You can't put them out of trim unless your hauling a lot of fuel.
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It appears that icing was the main culprit according to the NTSB and the cockpit flight data recorder. It ALMOST seems that one of the flaps didn't extend or over extended, but I'm not a crash investigator, causing the severe pitch and roll attitudes.