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Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chris_ on February 10, 2009, 10:58:48 PM

Title: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: Chris_ on February 10, 2009, 10:58:48 PM
Quote
CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX
Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions-Reduction Goals

By Anselm Waldermann

(http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1430872,00.jpg)     Despite Europe's boom in solar and wind energy, CO2 emissions haven't been reduced by even a single gram. Now, even the Green Party is taking a new look at the issue -- as shown in e-mails obtained by SPIEGEL ONLINE.

Germany's renewable energy companies are a tremendous success story. Roughly 15 percent of the country's electricity comes from solar, wind or biomass facilities, almost 250,000 jobs have been created and the net worth of the business is €35 billion per year.

But there's a catch: The climate hasn't in fact profited from these developments. As astonishing as it may sound, the new wind turbines and solar cells haven't prohibited the emission of even a single gram of CO2.

Even more surprising, the European Union's own climate change policies, touted as the most progressive in the world, are to blame. The EU-wide emissions trading system determines the total amount of CO2 that can be emitted by power companies and industries. And this amount doesn't change -- no matter how many wind turbines are erected.

Experts have known about this situation for some time, but it still isn't widely known to the public. Even Germany's government officials mention it only under their breath. No one wants to discuss the political ramifications....

Der Spiegel LINK (http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,606763,00.html)

Anybody seen the Gore-acle lately?
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: Chris_ on February 10, 2009, 11:02:24 PM
Anybody seen the Gore-acle lately?
MIA, baby -- MIA.
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: PoliCon on February 10, 2009, 11:31:21 PM
imagine that . . . . global warming clap trap doesn't work . . . . amazing. 
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: The Village Idiot on February 10, 2009, 11:38:20 PM
Anybody seen the Gore-acle lately?

lol. these people are clueless. globaloney worming was kind of manmade, made up by Al Gore
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on February 11, 2009, 08:44:11 AM
Could that possibly be because enforcing a reduction in the total CO2 credits they can trade would mean economic contraction, and all the politicians except the Greens are smart enough to figure out they'd get shitcanned for that?

 :whatever:
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: Wayne on February 11, 2009, 08:58:04 AM
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff84/wayne66_01/FEB%202009/untitled.jpg)
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: Baruch Menachem on February 11, 2009, 09:20:13 AM
Great!   QFGT
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff84/wayne66_01/FEB%202009/untitled.jpg)
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: jinxmchue on February 11, 2009, 11:30:20 AM
imagine that . . . . global warming clap trap doesn't work . . . . amazing. 

It's pseudoscience.
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: thundley4 on February 11, 2009, 11:36:57 AM
It's pseudoscience.

More like junk science (http://junkscience.com/).
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: Peter3_1 on February 11, 2009, 11:47:10 AM
Ah, yes, junk science, a favorate web site for me. I also like www.prophetofdoom.com as a source of all things nasty about Islam.

Anyway, Gorebal Warming "action" is designed from day one to return the average workman back to serf status. They are not Naturalists, conservationists or envviornmentalists, but Malthusians.So our suffering is part of their plan. 
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: PoliCon on February 11, 2009, 07:16:11 PM
It's pseudoscience.
Now don't lie.  It's just as much a science as is eugenics!
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on February 12, 2009, 08:02:16 AM
Could you add this to the ammunition forum?

Thank-you
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: jinxmchue on February 12, 2009, 11:23:00 AM
More like junk science (http://junkscience.com/).

That, too.
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: Chris_ on February 12, 2009, 11:30:28 AM
Quote
...almost 250,000 jobs have been created ...
They never mention how many jobs were lost.  Bet it's more than 250k.
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: Chris_ on February 12, 2009, 11:35:27 AM
Could you add this to the ammunition forum?

Thank-you

Done.

Note to moderator(s):  If you want to combine this thread with the new copy brought into the Political Ammo forum, I encourage you to do so.
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on February 12, 2009, 12:15:00 PM
I suspect the economics and the facts behind this are much more complex than the story makes it appear, and the writier was unsuccessful in either understanding or communicating the information with which he actually had to work.

It is a rather obvious outcome of a carbon-credit trading system that all the carbon credits will be used, since a credit trading system only makes sense where the emitters are up against some natural or legally-imposed limit.  Therefore, the system will keep them at that limit, and will not reduce emissions at all. 

This would mean the wind turbines were still a net positive (if there was to be a carbon limit imposed at all) since their output would've added a significant net plus to the power grid, enabling carbon credits that would've had to be used for power production to go to goods production, a net plus.

Now, of course, all this means no net reduction is carbon emissions at all, and a significant-but-not-stunning increase in energy production, so of course there is no net downward effect on CO2 levels.

The stupid is therefore not the wind turbines, which are actually of some positive utility, but in the whole bullshit carbon credit trading system.
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: Chris_ on February 12, 2009, 12:24:09 PM
I suspect the economics and the facts behind this are much more complex than the story makes it appear, and the writier was unsuccessful in either understanding or communicating the information with which he actually had to work.

It is a rather obvious outcome of a carbon-credit trading system that all the carbon credits will be used, since a credit trading system only makes sense where the emitters are up against some natural or legally-imposed limit.  Therefore, the system will keep them at that limit, and will not reduce emissions at all. 

This would mean the wind turbines were still a net positive (if there was to be a carbon limit imposed at all) since their output would've added a significant net plus to the power grid, enabling carbon credits that would've had to be used for power production to go to goods production, a net plus.

Now, of course, all this means no net reduction is carbon emissions at all, and a significant-but-not-stunning increase in energy production, so of course there is no net downward effect on CO2 levels.

The stupid is therefore not the wind turbines, which are actually of some positive utility, but in the whole bullshit carbon credit trading system.
I find your lack of faith in the Goricle disturbing.
Title: Re: CLIMATE CHANGE PARADOX: Wind Turbines in Europe Do Nothing for Emissions...
Post by: PoliCon on February 12, 2009, 06:47:49 PM
I find your lack of faith in the Goricle disturbing.
ooooo an heretic!! do we get to stone him? or do we force him to get stoned?