The Conservative Cave

Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: LC EFA on January 03, 2009, 07:34:24 PM

Title: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: LC EFA on January 03, 2009, 07:34:24 PM
Nothing like a bit of good old fashioned Terrorist love to start the day :

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High Plains  (1000+ posts) Sat Jan-03-09 02:22 PM
Original message
America's blind support of Israel damages the US national interest. Yes? No?
   
We are engaged in wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and actively trying to overthrow the Iranian government. Now we have anti-Israel/anti-American demonstrations breaking out around the world, including Iraq and Afghanistan. How can our blind support of Israel help us in the region?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4759600

I wonder how much western aid was shipped to the welfare entity known as palestine in the last 12 months. That's what counts as "blind support" these days I guess.

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gulliver  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Sat Jan-03-09 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. A strong country could support Israel and the Palestinians   Updated at 9:43 PM
   
There is no contradiction. Only a weak country--as the U.S. has become under Bush--takes sides. No vision anywhere. That's our problem.

Okay. You be quite in future while the adults are talking.

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MN Against Bush  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Sat Jan-03-09 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. That is my position as well.   Updated at 1:11 PM
   
We can support the people in both Israel and Palestine who are working for peace, and oppose those both in Israel and in Palestine who are working for more blood shed. We can not pretend one side is entirely right and the other side is entirely wrong.

If you can tell me just how the displaced arabs are "right" in any way here ....

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bstender  (53 posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Sat Jan-03-09 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes, Israel is a obstacle
   
to US interests, peace and justice in the region and to itself.

Hate to break it to you, but should the arabs ever get rid of Israel, they'll go back to doing what they do best. Killing other arabs.

A bunch more blame the US and Israel over there. Several appearances of "name removed" where someone said what they were really thinking and it got cleaned before a non-primitive took note.
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: Zeus on January 03, 2009, 08:47:22 PM
“There will be peace in the Middle East when the Arabs love their children more than they hate the Jews.” Gold Meir
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gm08123120090102125729.jpg)
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfiev_lk5_A[/youtube]
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: NHSparky on January 03, 2009, 08:53:09 PM
Yep--there's a guy on my local board who I swear can probably quote from Protocols of the Elders of Zion and Mein Kampf from memory, but I'M the Fascist in his eyes.  The reason?  Because I feel we should support a country threatened by people innocent people dead for no more reason than which version of God they choose to worship.

And I'm the unreasonable one.  Got it.
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: Chris_ on January 03, 2009, 09:09:36 PM
Quote from: Zeus on January 03, 2009, 08:47:22 PM
“There will be peace in the Middle East when the Arabs love their children more than they hate the Jews.” Gold Meir
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gm08123120090102125729.jpg)
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfiev_lk5_A[/youtube]

That YouTube video is EXCELLENT!  A great summary of historical facts that led to today.

What amazes me is when you see Gaza -- any people on the Earth except muslims would make it into a resort area. Beautiful beaches, wonderful scenery, etc.  Not mulsims -- they just see rocket launching sites.
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: Carl on January 03, 2009, 09:36:32 PM
Quote
gulliver  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Sat Jan-03-09 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. A strong country could support Israel and the Palestinians   Updated at 9:43 PM
   
There is no contradiction. Only a weak country--as the U.S. has become under Bush--takes sides. No vision anywhere. That's our problem.

Yeah idiot...tell us how a "strong" Carter or Clinton kept islamofacisim in check.
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: Chris_ on January 03, 2009, 10:41:57 PM
Sorry DUmmies, Israel is in the right. Hamas is a collection
of soon to be dead in the wrong. Some things really are that simple.

Hamas is lucky the IDF doesn't have MOAB's...
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: NHSparky on January 03, 2009, 10:45:52 PM
Did DUmmie gulliver REALLY say that "Only a weak country takes sides"?

Three days into 2009 and that is almost certainly a top-10 stupidest comment for the year, and not just so far.  That one has staying power, my friends.
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: rich_t on January 03, 2009, 10:49:58 PM
Quote from: SarasotaRepub on January 03, 2009, 10:41:57 PM
Sorry DUmmies, Israel is in the right. Hamas is a collection
of soon to be dead in the wrong. Some things really are that simple.

Hamas is lucky the IDF doesn't have MOAB's...

I'm OK with giving them one or two of ours.

 :cheersmate:
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: Chris_ on January 04, 2009, 12:36:42 AM
Yeah, blind support of the only democracy in the region, the only nation surrounded by, hounded by and yet, never cowed by her enemies obviously deserves no respect or support
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: THA HOUSTON PIMP IS IN DA HOUZ! on January 04, 2009, 01:45:26 AM
I still think  this is a slap in Dumbo's face.

Israel is doing what they do best; DEFENDING THEIR DAMN SURVIVAL.


They are not waiting on Dumbo's appeasement rhetoric.     He's surely come out with an anti Israel stance when he gets in power.


Go Israel; keep it up.    And don't depend on The U.S. because the new regime won't have your back. :banghead:
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: Atomic Lib Smasher on January 04, 2009, 01:56:20 AM
Quote from: THA HOUSTON PIMP IS IN DA HOUZ! on January 04, 2009, 01:45:26 AM
I still think  this is a slap in Dumbo's face.

Israel is doing what they do best; DEFENDING THEIR DAMN SURVIVAL.


They are not waiting on Dumbo's appeasement rhetoric.     He's surely come out with an anti Israel stance when he gets in power.


Go Israel; keep it up.    And don't depend on The U.S. because the new regime won't have your back. :banghead:

Sadly that may be the case and Israel knows that. Hence why they are going at the savages with both barrels.

And Zeus, hi5 for posting that vid. I got a shorter version on my blog, but it's not as good as that one.
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: Mr Mannn on January 04, 2009, 05:19:43 AM
There are a few voices of reason on DU, but they are shouted down. The site has sided with Hamas. I have had DUmmies justify (to my mole) the murder of Jews.
The place is a cesspool of hate.
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: BlueStateSaint on January 04, 2009, 06:43:55 AM
Quote from: Mr Mannn on January 04, 2009, 05:19:43 AM
There are a few voices of reason on DU, but they are shouted down. The site has sided with Hamas. I have had DUmmies justify (to my mole) the murder of Jews.
The place is a cesspool of hate.

And the hate will consume itself.  It'll be fun watching it, but I'll probably pull my hair out while it takes place, from the abject stoopid displayed.
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: miskie on January 04, 2009, 07:21:22 AM
Quote from: gulliver
gulliver  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) 
Sat Jan-03-09 02:24 PM

Response to Original message
1. A strong country could support Israel and the Palestinians
   
There is no contradiction. Only a weak country--as the U.S. has become under Bush--takes sides. No vision anywhere. That's our problem.

What ?
A strong country is one that stays on the fence ?
one that can't see who is right or wrong ?
one that votes present ?

Looks like gulliver's got Obama's back. However, when one looks at Obama's cabinet, One suspects there will be fairly strong support for Israel, which should break the moonbaddy-waddies widdle hearts.
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: delilahmused on January 04, 2009, 02:17:45 PM
If I live to be 150 years old I'll never understand the world's seething hatred of the Jews. It makes no sense.

Cindie
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: miskie on January 04, 2009, 02:29:14 PM
Quote from: delilahmused on January 04, 2009, 02:17:45 PM
If I live to be 150 years old I'll never understand the world's seething hatred of the Jews. It makes no sense.

Cindie

I think in Europe, its silent leftovers from the beliefs that led up to the Holocaust - that The Jews control all the businesses. In the USA, its most perpetuated by the blacks, IMHO, because of perceived wealth, save for the NeoNazis who are blindly following Hitler's lead.- and in the middle east, its because they are Jews, and Israel should not exist.

The thing is, before the two world wars, when Israel didn't exist, Jewish folks pretty much unofficially controlled that region and nobody cared. Then many of the Jewish got caught up in the two world wars, the Palestinians moved in, and have had no intention of leaving since. Then suddenly everybody cares about the Palestinian plight against the evil Jews.

My recollection may be a bit off on this brief timeline, So take it with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: Airwolf on January 04, 2009, 04:22:16 PM
Quote from: SarasotaRepub on January 03, 2009, 10:41:57 PM
Sorry DUmmies, Israel is in the right. Hamas is a collection
of soon to be dead in the wrong. Some things really are that simple.

Hamas is lucky the IDF doesn't have MOAB's...

Yet. It wouldn't take much for Isreal to make their own version of a MOAB. They already have the the C-130s and the guidence system for it wouldn't be hard to either make or duplicate it based on already exsisting stocks of PGBs we have sold them. The fact that we have yet to see them use one doesn't mean a thing.
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: Airwolf on January 04, 2009, 04:27:10 PM
Quote from: miskie on January 04, 2009, 02:29:14 PM
I think in Europe, its silent leftovers from the beliefs that led up to the Holocaust - that The Jews control all the businesses. In the USA, its most perpetuated by the blacks, IMHO, because of perceived wealth, save for the NeoNazis who are blindly following Hitler's lead.- and in the middle east, its because they are Jews, and Israel should not exist.

The thing is, before the two world wars, when Israel didn't exist, Jewish folks pretty much unofficially controlled that region and nobody cared. Then many of the Jewish got caught up in the two world wars, the Palestinians moved in, and have had no intention of leaving since. Then suddenly everybody cares about the Palestinian plight against the evil Jews.

My recollection may be a bit off on this brief timeline, So take it with a grain of salt.

You maybe right . I seem to remember though that Jordan gave the Palestinians a place to live and be at peace and the thaks they got was to have Arrafat try and over throw the King and the Government there. Thank God they were able to stop that .
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: Carl on January 04, 2009, 04:30:00 PM
Quote from: delilahmused on January 04, 2009, 02:17:45 PM
If I live to be 150 years old I'll never understand the world's seething hatred of the Jews. It makes no sense.

Cindie

They are Gods chosen people....all that reject Him must reject them.
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: Airwolf on January 04, 2009, 04:32:32 PM
Quote from: Carl on January 04, 2009, 04:30:00 PM
They are Gods chosen people....all that reject Him must reject them.


The important thing to remember is that those that do reject Gods chosen people do so at their peril.
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: Carl on January 04, 2009, 05:01:27 PM
Quote from: Airwolf on January 04, 2009, 04:32:32 PM
The important thing to remember is that those that do reject Gods chosen people do so at their peril.

As has been proven throughout history.
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on January 05, 2009, 10:18:43 AM
Quote from: delilahmused on January 04, 2009, 02:17:45 PM
If I live to be 150 years old I'll never understand the world's seething hatred of the Jews. It makes no sense.

Cindie

Well, actually some of the posts here illustrate one of the reasons.  If your religion tells you that YOU are the chosen people, and some other group claims IT is the chosen people, and then moves in next door to you, the seeds of conflict are pretty irrevocably sown, and somebody's got to go, or at least get pummeled into submission eventually.

In Europe the roots of anti-Semitism had a more economic component and the insular, exclusive, and mutually-promoting ways of the Jewish community (Going along with the whole 'Chosen' belief) fostered a lot of pushback, which always intensified when times were tough...when any kind of wealth gets concentrated in a minority that strongly pursues taking care of its own as a primary value, any propagation of that wealth gets plowed back in to selectively benefit that community first and foremost, and enables it to further accelerate concentration of wealth in itself.  This results in the rest of the populace feeling like they are getting screwed for the benefit of that minority, even if their own leaders set up a lot of the conditions that created the situation -- not unlike the history of affirmative action here in the US, and how many fans of that are there here?  A lot of that situation was indeed created by the European Gentiles, for instance the religious ban on usury for Christians greatly facilitated the growth of Jewish banking and financial organizations, and religious-based prohibitions on Jewish participation in some professions or Christian participation in others also naturally led to a predominance of one group or the other in particular fields that outlived the twilight of the religious proscriptions.

In modern times the economic pace and scale, plus the nature and scope of opportunities to make one's way in the world, have pretty much obviated the reasons that gave birth to European anti-Semitism, though of course there is a cultural remnant of it lingering.  Not so the friciton between competing 'Chosen' peoples, which will inevitably result in bloodshed whenever two mutually exclusive groups with the same religious conviction about their destinies rub up against each other.

I personally set no stock in anybody being chosen myself, and regard religion as a disaster-seeking basis for foreign policy decisions.  Democracies have allies, not 'Friends,' and those alliances last as long as there is a mutual value in it and not a moment beyond.  Since the end of the Cold War, the policy basis for our relations in the ME somewhat murky, and currently it's not all cut-and-dired as to whether backstopping Israel is helping us or hurting us in a big-picture, long-run way.  Supporting them means being on the wrong side with a large majority of the population in the area (including the guys sitting on all the oil) and occasional outbreaks of localized blood-spilling, while backing out entirely would tend to encourage large-scale overt and covert adventurism by Syria and Iran (from the current cast of characters) with consequences that could easily escalate to regional nuclear war, so I see us keeping up our semi-alliance with Israel in the interests of holding down a lid on the region to prevent large-scale hostilites, which would be very bad for everybody includng us.       
Title: Re: America's blind support of Israel
Post by: terry on January 05, 2009, 03:32:46 PM
Quote from: Zeus on January 03, 2009, 08:47:22 PM
“There will be peace in the Middle East when the Arabs love their children more than they hate the Jews.” Gold Meir
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gm08123120090102125729.jpg)
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfiev_lk5_A[/youtube]

The youtube has been removed, does anyone know anywhere else that it can be found?