The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: Carl on January 03, 2009, 02:20:40 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090103/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Israeli tanks and infantry entered Gaza after nightfall Saturday, launching a ground offensive that the military said would be a "lengthy operation" in a widening war on Gaza's Hamas rulers.
Israeli security officials said the operation is likely to go on for several days, but that the objective is not to reoccupy Gaza. The depth and intensity will also depend on parallel diplomatic efforts, the officials on condition of anonymity in line with military regulations.
"We have many, many targets," Israeli military spokeswoman Maj. Avital Leibovich told CNN, adding that Hamas has been digging smuggling tunnels and other facilities. "To my estimation, it will be a lengthy operation," she said.
"The goal is to try and take over some of the those launching areas that were responsible for the many launches, thousands of launches in fact, toward Israeli civilians," she said. "The civilians are not our target. We are looking only after militants. Hamas militants."
Heavy gun battles were reported as Israeli tanks and infantry soldiers entered Gaza after dark. The forces stayed close to the border area, witnesses said. Heavy artillery fire hit east of Gaza City in areas where Hamas fighters were deployed.
A text message sent by Hamas' military wing, Izzedine al-Qassam, said "the Zionists started approaching the trap which our fighters prepared for them."
Before the ground operation began, defense officials said around 10,000 soldiers massed along the border in recent days. Heavy artillery fire in the early evening was intended to detonate Hamas explosive devices and mines planted along the border area before troops marched in.
It was not immediately clear how deep into Gaza the Israeli forces would go.
Israel's offensive against Hamas began with a week of aerial bombardment of Hamas target. However, Hamas kept firing at Israeli towns, and Israeli officials said diplomatic efforts did not produced a satisfactory plan so far to guarantee a halt to rockets.
Israel had held off on a ground offensive, in part because of concern about casualties among Israeli troops.
Hamas leaders have warned that they have prepared a violent welcome. They have also threatened to resume suicide attacks inside Israel.
The Israelis were also backed by helicopter gunships.
The first week of fighting had claimed more than 460 Palestinians lives, while four Israelis were killed by rocket fire. Gaza is densely populated, and intense urban warfare was likely to get much deadlier...
more at link
I would say Israel has no doubts that the obamanation will sell the country out and demand that it all but surrender to the islamists and they are going to take care of things before that happens.
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Been watching the explosions, saw a fuel depot go up, saw the occasional secondary. It is about time. They need to crush the local Hamas completely.
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The bottom line is they are like roaches you have to kill all of them and I dont think Israel going to wipe them all out.
If it was up to me I would just up root them all out of the Gaza strip and turn it into resort area, but i am a inhuman monster. :-)
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The bottom line is they are like roaches you have to kill all of them and I don't think Israel going to wipe them all out.
If it was up to me I would just up root them all out of the Gaza strip and turn it into resort area, but i am a inhuman monster. :-)
I think you are more of a realist. There will be no peace whilst palestine exists. If Not Hamas, then it will be Fatah, or some other muslim cancer will fester.
I hope I am alive to see the palestinians herded out of Gaza for good. Its inevitable. Palestinians will either be driven out or die. I can foresee no other conclusion.
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I think you are more of a realist. There will be no peace whilst palestine exists. If Not Hamas, then it will be Fatah, or some other muslim cancer will fester.
I hope I am alive to see the palestinians herded out of Gaza for good. Its inevitable. Palestinians will either be driven out or die. I can foresee no other conclusion.
They have been a thorn in the side or useful pawns of muslim countries for decades.
The issue could be settled tomorrow if the muzzies would accept what has been a settled issue (the right of Israel to exist) since after the second world war.
Not a recent event,1948 I think without looking,so which side is it that is refusing to budge.
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In the good old days people understood war. If you wanted to take the fight outa people, you firebombed Dresden, or nuked Hiroshima.
Maybe some good old fashioned mass destruction would make Israel's point, "leave us alone, and you get to live."
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They've had 60 years to learn and they still can't figure it out. Not likely they will this time either.
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There will not be peace until the muslim devil puppets are cast into hell. It will happen.
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Go get em Israel.
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Looks like Israel is taking the old Navy way of doing things.
"First one to die. loses."
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I think that Israel has shown a remarkable amount of restraint in recent years.
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the israelis are about to kick some major ass
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the israelis are about to kick some major ass
Bye the end of this month, that will be known as ....kicking Boo-ta.
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I think you are more of a realist. There will be no peace whilst palestine exists. If Not Hamas, then it will be Fatah, or some other muslim cancer will fester.
I hope I am alive to see the palestinians herded out of Gaza for good. Its inevitable. Palestinians will either be driven out or die. I can foresee no other conclusion.
This time around I am laying all the blame at the feet of Hamas - notice how this conflict seems to be isolated only to Gaza, and does not involve the West Bank which the Fatah party still controls ? Im not saying there hasn't been unrest in the West Bank, but Fatah's police forces seem to have been keeping a lid on the Hamas sympathizers. At least for now.
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As I say, crush Hamas completely. PLUS, I's assassinate the takling heads whining about how MEAN and unbalanced Israel is. War is about winning and losing. It is MUCH BETTER TO WIN.
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The Israelis have taken over the Hamas TV station. In itself, a minor military matter. But I wonder how much steam will be let out of the Hamas engine without the daily incitement to hatred.
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The Israelis have taken over the Hamas TV station. In itself, a minor military matter. But I wonder how much steam will be let out of the Hamas engine without the daily incitement to hatred.
The daily incitement will continue unabated at mosques, around dinner tables, in social groupings. Of course they still have access to the Al-Jiz satellite feeds which aren't all that much better than HamasTV.
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I'll go against the rah-rah trend and predict it will end up not actually resolving anything except to take existing stocks of rockets out of circulation and kill a bunch of people, the vast majority of them being Palestinians. I don't see it making a long-term change on either side.
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Well, with the expected and completely ineffective demands by the UN and its lackies to cease fire, I think it's just a question of time before Israel bows to world/UN pressure and ceases overt attacks.
I see The Exalted One as following the Jimmah Carter tradition and either sending Jimmah hissef to the ME as Nobama's personal envoy, or perhaps even George Mitchell.
Since Nobama hasn't a clue and he's always looking for more people to throw under the bus, I think he's got to get involved in an indirect way to show "involvment", but not personally.
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Before saying "Palestinians" are being killed, we need to know what is the definition of the term. MOST of tghiose being killed today in Gaza are second and third generation nomadic Bedoin now stateless persons forced by Syria, Jordan, Eygpt, and Saudi Arabia to live in the area now called "The Gaza Strip. This because the attack on Israel, the day it was offically formed, by ARAB forces including those living in Gaza who REFUSED to accept citizenship on the new state of Israel, and in fact, took up arms to kill all Israelis.
These same "Palestinians" are NOT claiming that theuy have the right to live peacefully in Gaza, but that they have the right to ALL ISRAEL, and to KILL OFF the Israelis living there. And, BTW, it is not ISRAEL keeping these peeople in Gaza but the ARAB and Persian nations that REFUSE to integrate these sons and grandsons of the pawns in the 1948 attack into their own countries. Indeed, Jordan killed off a large chunk of the contingent living there as soon as they tried to exert political influence.
I hate to use wiki, but here is a link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan
I'm sure there are many many more.
Anyway, the Israelis have as much, maybe more clain to the name "Palestinian" than any Arab Bedoin, further, had the Arab Nations absorbed the Bedoin "Palestinians" and offwered , at least, the GRANDCHILDREN of those who attempted to murder the Jews in 1948, THERE WOULD BE NO GAZA and therefore, at least this skirmish in the last 60 years of on again off again war would not have happened.
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Before saying "Palestinians" are being killed, we need to know what is the definition of the term. MOST of tghiose being killed today in Gaza are second and third generation nomadic Bedoin now stateless persons forced by Syria, Jordan, Eygpt, and Saudi Arabia to live in the area now called "The Gaza Strip. This because the attack on Israel, the day it was offically formed, by ARAB forces including those living in Gaza who REFUSED to accept citizenship on the new state of Israel, and in fact, took up arms to kill all Israelis.
These same "Palestinians" are NOT claiming that theuy have the right to live peacefully in Gaza, but that they have the right to ALL ISRAEL, and to KILL OFF the Israelis living there. And, BTW, it is not ISRAEL keeping these peeople in Gaza but the ARAB and Persian nations that REFUSE to integrate these sons and grandsons of the pawns in the 1948 attack into their own countries. Indeed, Jordan killed off a large chunk of the contingent living there as soon as they tried to exert political influence.
I hate to use wiki, but here is a link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan
I'm sure there are many many more.
Anyway, the Israelis have as much, maybe more clain to the name "Palestinian" than any Arab Bedoin, further, had the Arab Nations absorbed the Bedoin "Palestinians" and offwered , at least, the GRANDCHILDREN of those who attempted to murder the Jews in 1948, THERE WOULD BE NO GAZA and therefore, at least this skirmish in the last 60 years of on again off again war would not have happened.
It's a circular argument, great for affirming the beliefs of the already-committed on the side it supports, but not meaningful otherwise. You could call the Israelis a bunch of refugee European colonists poled off on the Arabs with about equal accuracy. Neither approach is going to change any minds.
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I'll go against the rah-rah trend and predict it will end up not actually resolving anything except to take existing stocks of rockets out of circulation and kill a bunch of people, the vast majority of them being Palestinians. I don't see it making a long-term change on either side.
I think that is all the Israelis are hoping for.
For the past several years, the Hamass people have been having a no lose bit of harassment. Now they take a small hit. It won't change their minds in the least.
Short term, there is a reduction in ordinance and a smaller cadre of people who know how to use it. Long term, the smarter jerkoffs are having the dumber ones culled and there is now a larger body of intelligence on the effective use of what they had. The Israelis can't kill it, and they may have made it stronger by Darwinian weeding of the ineffective. The only real effective cure is mass murder, and I don't think the Israelis want to go there. The Arabs do, but they don't have the means. Yet.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hamas_suicide_attacks
Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
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Short term, there is a reduction in ordinance and a smaller cadre of people who know how to use it. Long term, the smarter jerkoffs are having the dumber ones culled and there is now a larger body of intelligence on the effective use of what they had. The Israelis can't kill it, and they may have made it stronger by Darwinian weeding of the ineffective. The only real effective cure is mass murder, and I don't think the Israelis want to go there. The Arabs do, but they don't have the means. Yet.
Yeah, pretty much how I see it. It's a long, badly-written play and we aren't even near the intermission yet, let alone the climax.
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Looks like Lebanon want's a piece of this too :
Rockets from Lebanon hit northern Israel
Posted 48 minutes ago
Updated 26 minutes ago
Two people were lightly wounded in the attack.
Related Story: Ceasefire pressure mounts as Israel continues Gaza strikes At least three rockets hit northern Israel from Lebanon, lightly wounding two people, Israeli officials said.
"Three rockets landed in Israel fired from Lebanon," police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said.
Two people were lightly wounded, he said, adding that police sappers and bomb disposal units were working on the scene.
[more]
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/08/2461894.htm