The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: TheSarge on January 03, 2009, 09:56:28 AM
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(http://www.geographyofgrace.com/postimages/Barack_Obama_01_by_StudioFovea.jpg)
Troops cite inexperience, Iraq timetable
By Brendan McGarry - Staff writer
Posted : Friday Jan 2, 2009 10:09:24 EST
When asked how they feel about President-elect Barack Obama as commander in chief, six out of 10 active-duty service members say they are uncertain or pessimistic, according to a Military Times survey.
In follow-up interviews, respondents expressed concerns about Obama’s lack of military service and experience leading men and women in uniform.
For eight years, members of the U.S. military have served under a Republican commander in chief who reflected their generally conservative views and led them to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Now, the troops face change not only at the very top of the chain of command, as Obama nears his Jan. 20 inauguration, but perhaps in mission, policy and values.
Underlying much of the uncertainty is Obama’s stated 16-month timetable for pulling combat troops out of Iraq, as well as his calls to end the “don’t ask, don’t tell†policy to allow gays to serve openly in the military, according to survey responses and interviews.
“How are you going to safely pull combat troops out of Iraq?†said Air Force 1st Lt. Rachel Kleinpeter, an intelligence officer with the 100th Operations Support Squadron at RAF Mildenhall, England. “And if you’re pulling out combat troops, who are you leaving to help support what’s left? What happens if Iraq falls back into chaos? Are we going to be there in five years doing the same thing over again?â€
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/12/military_poll_main_122908/
“Being that the Marine Corps can be sent anywhere in the world with the snap of his fingers, nobody has confidence in this guy as commander in chief,†said one lance corporal who asked not to be identified.
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Has that El Douchey, Mussy-leanie look, don't he?
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This guy is going to make Clinton look positively rock-star like in comparison within the military. I'd love to have seen the wording and internals of THIS poll. Something tells me 6 in 10 is a bit understated.
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This guy is going to make Clinton look positively rock-star like in comparison within the military. I'd love to have seen the wording and internals of THIS poll. Something tells me 6 in 10 is a bit understated.
Agreed on the internals of the poll. Would like to see how it was worded.
Nevertheless, I am continually amazed at even some of my former military colleagues who profess "hope" for "change." This guy Obama has a helluva lot of people eating out of his hand and it boggles my mind to hear the evidence for that.
We can take all the Kool-Aid jokes aside and shake our heads in utter amazement. For a SIGNIFICANT percentage of the population - and we shouldn't forget that in many respects that military is a microcosm of the general population - Obama has captivated them.
I keep thinking of the Pied Piper. Except the sheeple are tone deaf and they don't realize that the Piper is playing air pipes.
It just remains to be seen when the music stops and the Exalted One is caught fingering an instrument he doesn't have a clue about.
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I'll be watching the re-enlistment numbers. Should start dropping despite the economy.
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I'll be watching the re-enlistment numbers. Should start dropping despite the economy.
I doubt it. I wouldn't put my personal feelings of my President over my service to my country. We know he'll only be in that position for 4 years. I'll be in the military long after that. I'm sure most people will view it like that as well.
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I doubt it. I wouldn't put my personal feelings of my President over my service to my country. We know he'll only be in that position for 4 years. I'll be in the military long after that. I'm sure most people will view it like that as well.
You say that now. But when raises take a nosedive and budgets aren't reached and when cuts begin happening............many who were in for the long haul start bailing out..............same as under Clinton
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This guy is going to make Clinton look positively rock-star like in comparison within the military. I'd love to have seen the wording and internals of THIS poll. Something tells me 6 in 10 is a bit understated.
I'd add that 3 or four percent that had "no opinion" towards the negatives.
IMHO that's senior officers/nco's that are engaging in CYA for their career sake.
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I'd add that 3 or four percent that had "no opinion" towards the negatives.
IMHO that's senior officers/nco's that are engaging in CYA for their career sake.
The best CYA is to merely not be a poll respondant in the 1st place.
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I'd add that 3 or four percent that had "no opinion" towards the negatives.
IMHO that's senior officers/nco's that are engaging in CYA for their career sake.
Sadly, more the senior officers. Hopefully the senior NCO's TRY to stay out of politics, but when I made E-6, I sadly learned that command (or higher) politics is played very heavily--or at least it was. Sad, really. It's actually one of the reasons I decided to get out.
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We can take all the Kool-Aid jokes aside and shake our heads in utter amazement. For a SIGNIFICANT percentage of the population - and we shouldn't forget that in many respects that military is a microcosm of the general population - Obama has captivated them.
I keep thinking of the Pied Piper. Except the sheeple are tone deaf and they don't realize that the Piper is playing air pipes.
Only problem I have with this assertion - that the military is a microcosm of the general population as a whole - is that I can think of a number of arenas where that just isn't so.
You and I both know of liberal leaning servicemen and former servicemen; we can name off a few examples from the other forum. But the fact that we can identify the ones we know BY NAME should tell us that theses guys aren't as common as some would like us to believe.
It has been shown time and again that the average troop on the ground is educated head and shoulders above the sheeple he protects and serves. High school drop-outs are statistically insignificant to the point of being damned near unheard of. The percentage of graduate degrees in the hands of the average enlisted personnel is staggering compared to the general civillian population, to say nothing of the undergraduate degrees among that body. Moreover, those degrees are usually not the regurgitated leftist pablum of a modern Liberal Arts degree; your average serviceman with a degree chose a course of study with tangible skills sets and a defined milestones for achievement. He or she can critically think circles around even frocked snow-job artists like Ward Churchill and his kind of educated idiot any day of the week.
I'm just guessing here (perhaps MudPuppy could enlighten us in this regard) but I'd offer odds that the crime rates inside the military don't even register compared to those out here in the sheeple's flock.
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Only problem I have with this assertion - that the military is a microcosm of the general population as a whole - is that I can think of a number of arenas where that just isn't so.
You and I both know of liberal leaning servicemen and former servicemen; we can name off a few examples from the other forum. But the fact that we can identify the ones we know BY NAME should tell us that theses guys aren't as common as some would like us to believe.
It has been shown time and again that the average troop on the ground is educated head and shoulders above the sheeple he protects and serves. High school drop-outs are statistically insignificant to the point of being damned near unheard of. The percentage of graduate degrees in the hands of the average enlisted personnel is staggering compared to the general civillian population, to say nothing of the undergraduate degrees among that body. Moreover, those degrees are usually not the regurgitated leftist pablum of a modern Liberal Arts degree; your average serviceman with a degree chose a course of study with tangible skills sets and a defined milestones for achievement. He or she can critically think circles around even frocked snow-job artists like Ward Churchill and his kind of educated idiot any day of the week.
I'm just guessing here (perhaps MudPuppy could enlighten us in this regard) but I'd offer odds that the crime rates inside the military don't even register compared to those out here in the sheeple's flock.
While the caliber of servicemen and women has certainly gotten better since even my day (onset of the volunteer Army), we're still talking about young people with young people's wants, desires, attitudes, and even education.
Depending on the needs of the services at the time, standards for entry change -- becoming more restrictive when economic times are tough and there isn't as much competition, and loosening up when economic times are good and recruiting falls off. So speaking in generalities here and knowing there are exceptions to every rule, we're still looking at young people entering military service.
from what I've seen both in uniform and on the block (20 years active, more than 14 as a retiree but working in civilian companies with NO affiliation to the military), most young people don't have a clue about their own political leanings -- they're merely parroting what they've heard Mommy and Daddy espouse. Later in life most of the military -- not all -- become a little more interested in news, political events, and the world around them. And yes, many of these lean a bit more right than left.
THESE are the ones that you are speaking of -- not necessarily the majority.
While blogging and other forms of internet-based activities are relatively new to the military (Al Gore hadn't invented the internet until the last couple-three years of my own career, back when a 3200 baud modem was a screamer), and there are certainly more military out there blogging and participating in forums than I've seen, my point stands:
Servicemen and servicewomen entering military service are, for the most part, a microcosm of the general public. Political opinions, educational level, values, morals, and other stuff is going to be about the same. Perhaps I should modify my original post - I was actually thinking of younger folks than those old grizzled warhorses that most definitely sing a conservative tune. THOSE folks are definitely not a microcosm of the general population and with that distinction, I agree with you.
I don't know what the percentage is currently on high school diplomas or GEDs, but all of that is generally immaterial to my point.
Civilians enter military service. Some stay in, most get out. General political leanings of those who enter are going to be reflective of the population at large.
For those who stay in, many form more conservative views that are common to the military.
As to where these highly educated enlisted have gotten their education, away from the liberal arts pablum that you're claiming, I'm afraid you'll have to pony up some data on that. While I'm sure there are some demographic data on that somewhere, I'm not entirely sure that your point is valid on that.
Further, in a relatively tightly controlled environment such as the military, the "crime rate" as such cannot compare with a rather loose civilian society. Even still, I'm sure Mudpuppy can confirm that she's seen plenty of criminal activity instigated by those wearing the uniform. As to how it compares, I don't know -- but I do know it's like comparing apples to oranges.