The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Tucker on December 22, 2008, 12:03:20 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4701136
notadmblnd (1000+ posts) Mon Dec-22-08 11:51 AM
Original message
Toyota projects first operating loss since 1941
Edited on Mon Dec-22-08 11:55 AM by notadmblnd
Crashing auto demand, especially in its key U.S. market, and the profit erosion from a surging yen proved too much for Japan's top automaker, which had been booming on the success of its fuel-efficient models, including the Camry sedan and Prius gas-electric hybrid.
Watanabe and other executives said production plans and other investment will be on hold, including a new plant in the southern U.S. state of Mississippi and expansion plans in India.
At a similar news conference last week, Takeo Fukui, president of No. 2 Japan automaker Honda Motor Co., also lowered profit and sales forecasts and declined to give a vehicle sales goal for 2009.
Toyota said it will reduce temporary workers at its Japan plants to about 3,000 by March from an earlier 6,000. Full-time employees will have job security.
Toyota is a relatively old-style Japanese company that offers lifetime employment, and only in recent years has hired and let go of temporary workers to adjust production. It was reviewing overseas jobs but had not reached a decision, it said.
deaniac21 (1000+ posts) Mon Dec-22-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. Somehow I can't beleive they posted gains in 1945.
spyrogyra (124 posts) Mon Dec-22-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. You know i was wondering what that profit statement looked like
in 1945,'46,'47.
deaniac21 (1000+ posts) Mon Dec-22-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Maybe they made a profit selling ashes.
:o Yikes!!!!
Personally, I would love to see every Asian auto maker go BROKE.
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4701136
:o Yikes!!!!
Personally, I would love to see every Asian auto maker go BROKE.
Not me. A ton of Southerners employed at Asian auto manufacturers. My next vehicle will probably be a Tundra.
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Not me. A ton of Southerners employed at Asian auto manufacturers. My next vehicle will probably be a Tundra.
Yeah, Hyundai has a plant in Alabama, is building two more in Georgia I believe.
Meanwhile, GM is expanding it's production capabilities in China. Who are the bad guys here?
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I don't really want to see any of the auto makers go broke, but I sure would like to see them willing to dicker a bit more on the new Acura I want.
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Not me. A ton of Southerners employed at Asian auto manufacturers. My next vehicle will probably be a Tundra.
My grandpa just bought a 2009 Tundra. It's a cute little truck.
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I don't really want to see any of the auto makers go broke, but I sure would like to see them willing to dicker a bit more on the new Acura I want.
Contact various dealerships via their websites. Internet department sales are more based on quantity and less on gross per vehicle.
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GM has been casting and assembling engines in Canada forever. Chrysler has been pre assembling in Mexico longer. Ford has "borrowed" entire chassis and drive trains, popped a nice body (The probe) revalved the shocks, and BINGO, American car!
The Ford "world car" gets 55 mpg. But it cannot be sold here, not "safe" enough. And so on, yet GM trots out the "Volt" as its' big incentive car. 40Miles max range? The Detroit Electric WW1 era got advertized 80 and up to 120 miles observed if things were "perfect". But only went 20 mph.
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It's a cute little truck.
Thanks for ruining it for me. Guess I'll have to go with the Titan. :banghead:
:-)
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Yeah, Hyundai has a plant in Alabama, is building two more in Georgia I believe.
Meanwhile, GM is expanding it's production capabilities in China. Who are the bad guys here?
Kia, which is owned by Hyundai, has a plant in LaGrange, Ga. They won out over this area due to logistical purposes and it's proximity to the Hyundai plant. Nissan is in Canton, Ms. Honda is in Alabama. Mercedes has a plant in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. BMW has a plant in South Carolina. Toyota has a plant in Huntsville, Alabama.
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Thanks for ruining it for me. Guess I'll have to go with the Titan. :banghead:
:-)
The 2009 Tundra looks suspiciously like a Dodge ram. It's all good though because the 2009 Ram except for the grill area looks like a Ford. :-)
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Thanks for ruining it for me. Guess I'll have to go with the Titan. :banghead:
:-)
Yep, heterosexual males don't drive "cute" vehicles. :-)
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The 2009 Tundra looks suspiciously like a Dodge ram. It's all good though because the 2009 Ram except for the grill area looks like a Ford. :-)
I like those tool boxes that are built into the walls of the new Dodge. ....just couldn't drive another Dodge. My ex-wife and I had an Avenger ES in '96, first year it came out, turned out to be a huge POS.
BTW, that new Tundra has some hellacious HP and "torqueage", and it still uses the bigger engine of the "normal" quarter-tons, a 5.7L.
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Yep, heterosexual males don't drive "cute" vehicles. :-)
Not saying I would even try it in a million years, but I think the Titan is supposed to be rated for about 9500 LBs of towing capacity.
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I like those tool boxes that are built into the walls of the new Dodge. ....just couldn't drive another Dodge. My ex-wife and I had an Avenger ES in '96, first year it came out, turned out to be a huge POS.
BTW, that new Tundra has some hellacious HP and "torqueage", and it still uses the bigger engine of the "normal" quarter-tons, a 5.7L.
Power is wasted because of the light frame and not enough of a rear end. It's a Hobby truck not a work truck.
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Thanks for ruining it for me. Guess I'll have to go with the Titan. :banghead:
:-)
He actually bought the "little" truck they have, just a regular cab. (See my thread with my weekend pics in the Lounge and you can see it). It's a good little truck, he was replacing a similar sized Chevrolet pickup that was flooded. He's no towing anything with it or anything like that.
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Miss Mia, the truck your grandpa has appears to be a Tacoma... Tundra is the full-size truck, something my stepdad's been eyeing for awhile.
My uncle has a Tacoma exactly like your grandpa's, only its maroon. It IS a great little truck. I wouldn't slander it by calling it "cute." My uncle would be highly offended. :lmao:
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Personally, I would love to see every Asian auto maker go BROKE.
I like the Asian brands. They build a better vehicle and don't extort my tax dollars out of my elected officials to keep them afloat during lean times. Between the greed of the union bosses and the incompetence of the executives, I'm surprised the Big 3 have made it as far as they have.
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I like the Asian brands. They build a better vehicle and don't extort my tax dollars out of my elected officials to keep them afloat during lean times. Between the greed of the union bosses and the incompetence of the executives, I'm surprised the Big 3 have made it as far as they have.
Actually those plants are receiving some good Tax abatement/economic development grants to locate where they are locating. I don't have a problem with that. In fact I think it's a wise economic move by local authorities. Just don't kid yourself that they are locating there out of the kindness of their hearts.
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Actually those plants are receiving some good Tax abatement/economic development grants to locate where they are locating. I don't have a problem with that. In fact I think it's a wise economic move by local authorities. Just don't kid yourself that they are locating there out of the kindness of their hearts.
I don't have a problem with local tax incentives either. It's when the government starts taking money directly out of my check so that it can be funneled into the pockets of union hacks that I get a little miffed. Further, the local governments in these areas have done the math and determined that it benefits them financially to have the plants there. The plants provide jobs to people who then spend money and pay taxes. It's a win-win for everybody. I know the Asian companies don't do it out of the kindness of their hearts. They do it because it allows them to be competitive in the marketplace rather than asking Congress to help fund their incompetence.
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I like the Asian brands. They build a better vehicle and don't extort my tax dollars out of my elected officials to keep them afloat during lean times. Between the greed of the union bosses and the incompetence of the executives, I'm surprised the Big 3 have made it as far as they have.
Remember who bombed us. They're still attacking us.
You can keep those foreigh pieces of shit.
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Miss Mia, the truck your grandpa has appears to be a Tacoma... Tundra is the full-size truck, something my stepdad's been eyeing for awhile.
My uncle has a Tacoma exactly like your grandpa's, only its maroon. It IS a great little truck. I wouldn't slander it by calling it "cute." My uncle would be highly offended. :lmao:
Yeah, I went and looked at it again and it's a Tacoma. :thatsright:
Hey, my grandpa is a cutie so his truck is too. :wink:
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Remember who bombed us. They're still attacking us.
You can keep those foreigh pieces of shit.
Yay! We've found a closet racist.
Grow the **** up. We killed 2.7 million Japanese and dropped two atomic weapons on their nation for that war. Since then we've become some of the closest allies. And quite frankly, in the near 8 years I've lived in Japan and defended her shores, I can say without a hesitation in my mind that most Japanese are better people then most Americans.
They've long ago gotten over the atrocities we committed onto them. Why don't you join the rest of us where we don't have our heads shoved up our asses.
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He actually bought the "little" truck they have, just a regular cab. (See my thread with my weekend pics in the Lounge and you can see it). It's a good little truck, he was replacing a similar sized Chevrolet pickup that was flooded. He's no towing anything with it or anything like that.
Here's a Tundra:
(http://www.leasetrader.com/photos/actual98909/640x480/Toyota-Tundra-Double-Cab-SR5-4WD-V8.jpeg)
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Here's a Tundra:
(http://www.leasetrader.com/photos/actual98909/640x480/Toyota-Tundra-Double-Cab-SR5-4WD-V8.jpeg)
Rebel, I just feel silly, I kept saying Tundra when it obviously isn't. I used to date a guy that drove a Tundra and it's clearly different than the little Tacoma. :)
And a Tundra is never cute, it's very manly. :naughty:
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Hmmmm.
One wonders why the primitives are even discussing this issue of economics, of finance, of business?
Given their level of knowledge and understanding of how things work, the primitives discussing this issue is like the village idiot describing the effect of derivatives on international money markets.
Primitives should stick with stuff they know about.
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Yay! We've found a closet racist.
Oh now, don't be so judgemental, so quick to jump to hasty conclusions.
The sentiments as expressed by our esteemed colleague Tucker13 are based upon something wholly different from race. Those are sentiments widely, and oftentimes legitimately, held by those who put a great deal of their lives into American automotive manufacturing.
Whether those sentiments prove accurate, is up for history to judge.
I myself have no opinion on the matter, other than that such sentiments are based upon socio-economic hopes and fears, not upon the color of anyone's skin.
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Rebel, I just feel silly, I kept saying Tundra when it obviously isn't. I used to date a guy that drove a Tundra and it's clearly different than the little Tacoma. :)
And a Tundra is never cute, it's very manly. :naughty:
Those things are HUGE! When my stepdad, mom and I were waiting to pick up her Highlander after the dealer mechanics f***ed up the onboard computer and had to repair it, my stepdad and I went to the showroom to look at the Tundra 4 door they had. That Tundra seemed bigger than my Dad's 07 Silverado crew cab. It could have been the height of the truck, or maybe it's the fact I'm practically a midget. :uhsure:
I really don't think I could get behind the wheel of one. Call me weird, I can drive my stepmom's Suburban with ease, but its the crew cabs that scare her and I more than anything. :o
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Yay! We've found a closet racist.
Grow the **** up. We killed 2.7 million Japanese and dropped two atomic weapons on their nation for that war. Since then we've become some of the closest allies. And quite frankly, in the near 8 years I've lived in Japan and defended her shores, I can say without a hesitation in my mind that most Japanese are better people then most Americans.
They've long ago gotten over the atrocities we committed onto them. Why don't you join the rest of us where we don't have our heads shoved up our asses.
Not at all. Just don't like their business practices.
How about you choose your friend and I'll choose mine. You buy what you want to buy and I'll buy what I want, based on MY preferences.
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Not at all. Just don't like their business practices.
Ya. Building a quality product at a competitive price. Then they have the audacity to sell that product at a PROFIT and give it to shareholders. ASSHOLES! :whatever:
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I do think the meme about foreign made vehicles are just so much better is strange. There has been foreign made vehicles made & allowed in the USA now long enough. If they are so well made how come you don't see many older models on the roads,say 15 - 20 yrs old or so. German beemers & Benz maybe but you hardly ever see a 20+ yr old model of a Toyota or Mazda or even Honda around. Yea they are out there but not in the numbers one would expect for such Superior made vehicles.
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A pretty high percentage of the vehicles on our roads are made in Japan. Especially in the commercial fleets.
I have a Nissan pickup truck , everyone I know has either Nissan or Toyota pickup trucks.
They're affordable, reliable, have excellent spare parts logistics and service availability and are tough as nails.
Next vehicle I get will probably be a Mitsubishi cab-over 4x4 truck.
If the Ford / Chevy / etc vehicles are so good, why aren't they exported in as large numbers, and to as many markets as the Asian made fleets ?
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A pretty high percentage of the vehicles on our roads are made in Japan. Especially in the commercial fleets.
I have a Nissan pickup truck , everyone I know has either Nissan or Toyota pickup trucks.
They're affordable, reliable, have excellent spare parts logistics and service availability and are tough as nails.
Next vehicle I get will probably be a Mitsubishi cab-over 4x4 truck.
If the Ford / Chevy / etc vehicles are so good, why aren't they exported in as large numbers, and to as many markets as the Asian made fleets ?
Yes they are out there but not older ones,that's my point. sure you see new or a couple yr old foreign vehicles all over the place but if they are built so good where they hiding all the 15 , 20 or 20+ yr old ones.
Import restrictions primarily.
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A pretty high percentage of the vehicles on our roads are made in Japan. Especially in the commercial fleets.
I have a Nissan pickup truck , everyone I know has either Nissan or Toyota pickup trucks.
They're affordable, reliable, have excellent spare parts logistics and service availability and are tough as nails.
Next vehicle I get will probably be a Mitsubishi cab-over 4x4 truck.
If the Ford / Chevy / etc vehicles are so good, why aren't they exported in as large numbers, and to as many markets as the Asian made fleets ?
Tariffs that Japan places on American vehicles coming into their country.
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Yes they are out there but not older ones,that's my point. sure you see new or a couple yr old foreign vehicles all over the place but if they are built so good where they hiding all the 15 , 20 or 20+ yr old ones.
Could be many reasons.. Firstly I'd think to looking at the proportion of them that were actually sold back in those days. If they were sold in markedly less volume then that might account for the deficit.
Perhaps in the US the spares logistics aren't what they are here, so they fall out of circulation sooner.
I'd actually go with a combination of the above two.
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Tariffs that Japan places on American vehicles coming into their country.
Japanese auto makers export to many countries in quite large volumes.
I don't know how big the US auto export business is, but does it export a comparable volume to a comparable number of markets ?
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I do think the meme about foreign made vehicles are just so much better is strange. There has been foreign made vehicles made & allowed in the USA now long enough. If they are so well made how come you don't see many older models on the roads,say 15 - 20 yrs old or so. German beemers & Benz maybe but you hardly ever see a 20+ yr old model of a Toyota or Mazda or even Honda around. Yea they are out there but not in the numbers one would expect for such Superior made vehicles.
I see 90's models Japanese cars all over the place. 1990 was almost 20 years ago, as hard as it is to believe. Damn time is going by too damn fast.
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By the way, if you want to buy American, seems you have to buy Japanese. Even most of the assembly for my Tahoe happened in another country, with final assembly in Texas.
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http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-exec-seeks-40-billion-euro-loan-from-eu.html
Toyota exec seeks 40 billion euro loan from EU
senior vice president of Toyota’s United Kingdom office strongly suggested that the European Commission consider an economic stimulus package that would include 40 billion euros in low-interest, short-term loans to aid the automakers in developing fuel-efficient vehicles for the future.
Graham Smith, speaking at the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, said, “At a time of economic uncertainty when budgets are stretched to capacity, we must ensure the industry continues to invest in the development of new products and innovative technology.â€
The European Investment Bank would provide the loans that will potentially be offered by the European Commission. The European Commission will meet today to consider the economic stimulus package.
Wonder why they didn't ask for bailout money in the US.
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Based on an article written in November 2007 by the Detroit News, Toyota posted a profit of more than $14.9 billion profit. Their sales figures for 2007 were projected at this time to be around 8.93 million vehicles sold world wide.
Another similar article reported on GM’s standing during 2007, which was written in February of 2008 by the International Herald Tribune. The GM article was written with a radically different view of the automakers sales figures, stating that GM lost $38.7 billion in 2007. The same article goes on to identify the number of vehicle sales for GM world wide, which was 9.4 million.
So here we have two articles discussing domestic versus foreign auto manufacturers sales figures. Both companies sell nearly the identical number of vehicles, even GM selling slightly more, yet HUGE differences in their profit margins. GM wasn’t even hoping to make it into the black come 4th quarter of 07 and 08 hasn’t been any friendlier to the books.
To summarize, two competing companies, dealing with comparable products, selling comparable amounts of units, post a difference in earnings for the year of $53.6 billion. Toyota being the company who remained in the black, profiting $14.9 billion, and finally taking over the leader in car sales worldwide in 08.
Evidently sales or lack thereof is not the Big 3's financial problem.
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Evidently sales or lack thereof is not the Big 3's financial problem.
Legacy costs. GM had 500,000+ collecting a pension. If Asian manufacturers are here long enough, they will be faced with the same liabilities.
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Legacy costs. GM had 500,000+ collecting a pension. If Asian manufacturers are here long enough, they will be faced with the same liabilities.
Are the Asian manufacturers union ? I think they have a 'You no workie you no get paid" policy. Unless of course you have some vacation time coming.
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Legacy costs. GM had 500,000+ collecting a pension. If Asian manufacturers are here long enough, they will be faced with the same liabilities.
The legacy costs are part of it. As are the current Union employee costs. Paying unskilled workers $20.00+ per hour doesn't make smart business sense to me.
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Are the Asian manufacturers union ?
Honda isn't
Toyota isn't
Hyundai isn't
Nissan isn't
Nor do I think any of these companies offer pension plans nor medical benefits to retirees. The folks that work in the local Honda plant get a 401K option. They don't get company paid medical benefits after retiring either.
I'm not positive about the others.
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The legacy costs are part of it. As are the current Union employee costs. Paying unskilled workers $20.00+ per hour doesn't make smart business sense to me.
What is the hourly rate of asian automakers? 25.00 an hour?
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Honda isn't
Toyota isn't
Hyundai isn't
Nissan isn't
Nor do I think any of these companies offer pension plans nor medical benefits to retirees. The folks that work in the local Honda plant get a 401K option. They don't get company paid medical benefits after retiring either.
I'm not positive about the others.
I think the folks that work for toyota down by San Antonio and those soon to be working for Toyota down the road in Temple have defined benefit retirement plans. It's not a something for nothing plan you gets what you gives plus interest. 401's and of course stock options and some kind of profit sharing plan also.
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What is the hourly rate of asian automakers? 25.00 an hour?
I don't recall. They make less than their union counter-parts, at least according to every single article I've read on the issue.
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I don't recall. They make less than their union counter-parts, at least according to every single article I've read on the issue.
I think the national avg pay differiental was somewhere in the neighbor hood of $30/hr.
(http://www.cnsnews.com/Public/Content/article.aspx?RsrcID=39499CNSNews.com) – Economists in Michigan, the long-time home of the auto industry, say they don’t support the proposed multi-billion dollar bailout of Big Three automakers Chrysler, GM and Ford.
One reason why, they say, is the ultra-high labor costs for union workers employed by the Big Three. It costs over $73 per hour on average to employ a union auto worker, according to University of Michigan at Flint economist Mark J. Perry.
“Is it right to tax the average worker making $28.50 to bailout workers whose labor cost is over $73 an hour?†Perry asked.
He explained that in 2006, widely available industry and Labor Department statistics placed the average labor cost for UAW-represented workers at the former DaimlerChrysler at $75.86 per hour. For Ford it was $70.51, he said, and for General Motors it was $73.26.
“That includes the hourly pay, plus the benefits they’re receiving and all the other costs to General Motors, Ford and Chrysler, including legacy costs – retirement costs, pensions, and so on – so it’s looking at the total labor costs per hour worked for workers,†Perry said.
For U.S. workers at Toyota, however, the per hour labor cost is around $47.60, around $43 for Honda and around $42 for Nissan, Perry added, for an average of around $44.
“So we’re looking at somewhere around a $29 per hour pay gap between the Big Three and the foreign transplants that are producing cars in the United States,†Perry, chairman of the economics department, told CNSNews.com.
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I think the folks that work for toyota down by San Antonio and those soon to be working for Toyota down the road in Temple have defined benefit retirement plans. It's not a something for nothing plan you gets what you gives plus interest. 401's and of course stock options and some kind of profit sharing plan also.
That's the same as GM's hourly work force. They changed to that system several years ago.
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I do think the meme about foreign made vehicles are just so much better is strange. There has been foreign made vehicles made & allowed in the USA now long enough. If they are so well made how come you don't see many older models on the roads,say 15 - 20 yrs old or so. German beemers & Benz maybe but you hardly ever see a 20+ yr old model of a Toyota or Mazda or even Honda around. Yea they are out there but not in the numbers one would expect for such Superior made vehicles.
At one time both Toyota and Honda had problems with their vehicles rusting badly very early in the life of the car. I think they've since gotten it remedied. As far as the meme you referred to.....I really believe that this is really just a burning hatred for the UAW on display! :-) You'll notice everytime you hear that meme shortly thereafter the UAW is somehow brought up! :-)
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At one time both Toyota and Honda had problems with their vehicles rusting badly very early in the life of the car. I think they've since gotten it remedied. As far as the meme you referred to.....I really believe that this is really just a burning hatred for the UAW on display! :-) You'll notice everytime you hear that meme shortly thereafter the UAW is somehow brought up! :-)
Although I think the UAW is a major contributer to the Big 3's current travails that wasn't on my mind when I mentioned the meme. hell just look at the stats, The Big three still outsell the asians, their cars last longer,score better on various test like safety etc etc.
sure a few of the imports get a couple miles per gal better gas mileage but one has to ask themselves is a couple MPG more worth risking mine or my families safety.
I think most the cheerleading for the imports is just political correctness look at me I am cool cause I bash american made cars.
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Although I think the UAW is a major contributer to the Big 3's current travails that wasn't on my mind when I mentioned the meme. hell just look at the stats, The Big three still outsell the asians, their cars last longer,score better on various test like safety etc etc.
sure a few of the imports get a couple miles per gal better gas mileage but one has to ask themselves is a couple MPG more worth risking mine or my families safety.
I think most the cheerleading for the imports is just political correctness look at me I am cool cause I bash american made cars.
H5.
The money going to GM is just a loan. I think some overlook that part.
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I am not going to get in the middle of an argument because it is somewhat pointless but I will state that I have been driving Toyota's since 1986 with virtually no problems whatsoever.
The car I replaced with the first one was a 1981 Ford Escort....nuff said.
Every brand has had their trouble issues..Toyota couldn`t keep a head gasket in their first V6s back in the 90s just to name one for that brand but perceptions are what they are and that is the big 3 have not put out as good a quality product.
Case in point the small block Chevy engine.
I have no idea the reasons,but when they adopted thinwall castings in the late 80s they ruined it,same problem head gaskets.
One thinks back to various small blocks and how good that engine was from the 50s and then all of a sudden it is junk?
Toyota has the same problem at about the same time but with a new engine and they took steps to correct it.
That is what makes the perception.
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I think most the cheerleading for the imports is just political correctness look at me I am cool cause I bash american made cars.
This is an idiotic statement.
Speaking for myself, my sentiments are borne of my experience -- not of PC or of emotion. I was born in Detroit and grew up in the suburbs of that city. I was raised around the U.S. auto industry and fully understand how entrenched the industry is within the area.
I grew up to appreciate GM products and bought GM products, one of them brand new. Within 7 years, that particular car was a rusted pile of bolts, though the engine still performed well.
After that disappointing result, I bought a new Ford product. Leaking oil, bad shocks (after 10,000 miles), and other issues later, I got rid of it. BUT, I wasn't as disappointed with it as I was the GM product I mentioned earlier.
Then I bought a brand-new 1993 Ford Taurus station wagon. Built in Chicago.
This piece of shit was unbelievable. At 10,000 miles, I rotated the tires and found out that the rear end had never been properly installed and aligned. (Must've been one of those "Monday" cars.) Two tires shot in the ass.
Motor mounts routinely going bad, blown head gaskets, transmission going south (I learned that Ford had known of this shitty design for some years and deliberately opted to do nothing about it), the list goes on and on and on.
There is much more to this story, but let me just leave it at this:
My understanding of the auto industry is better than most. I once was a "U.S. car" supporter. But through my EXPERIENCE, I learned that the Big Three wasn't interested in building a quality product. They simply wanted my money.
So I went to the competition and was infinitely better satisfied.
As far as I can tell, there's nothing PC about that.
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I think most the cheerleading for the imports is just political correctness look at me I am cool cause I bash american made cars.
Perhaps for some, but for others like me, it is a matter of getting the most car for the dollar.
I did a lot of research before I bought my Elantra, a comparably equipped US car of the same size would have cost me between $1500-2000 more than I paid for the Elantra. That may not seem like much to some, but at the time my budget couldn't afford the extra amount.
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I think most the cheerleading for the imports is just political correctness look at me I am cool cause I bash american made cars.
Could be for some people or it might be that they enjoy driving a vehicle that is more dependable, quality control is better and the sales and service experience is superior to American car dealerships.
In the late 70's the American car makers started building crappy cars. The Japs caught up and surpassed the Americans. I bought an LTD and a Z28 which I kept for only a few years because I had engine problems with the Ford and transmission with the Chevy. Since then I have purchased 5 new Nissan's, 2 Toyota's and one Infinity. I bought everyone of these cars because of the driving experience and quality; impressing anyone was not even on my radar. I drive a 5 1/2 year old Nissan 350Z. Tires, front end alignment, front brake pads, a battery and scheduled maintenance are the the only cost that I have incurred on this car.
It is true that American cars are beginning to catch up but with the perception of poor quality and dependability, the big 3 have a difficult time convincing customers that they have turned a new leaf in building quality cars. The Chevy Impala and the Caddy CTS are examples of Chevy getting back on the right track. It is no ones fault but management and unions that they are in dire straights financially. The benes of retirees and current workers is going to sink the big 3 if they do not go into bankruptcy.
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Could be for some people or it might be that they enjoy driving a vehicle that is more dependable, quality control is better and the sales and service experience is superior to American car dealerships.
In the late 70's the American car makers started building crappy cars. The Japs caught up and surpassed the Americans. I bought an LTD and a Z28 which I kept for only a few years because I had engine problems with the Ford and transmission with the Chevy. Since then I have purchased 5 new Nissan's, 2 Toyota's and one Infinity. I bought everyone of these cars because of the driving experience and quality; impressing anyone was not even on my radar. I drive a 5 1/2 year old Nissan 350Z. Tires, front end alignment, front brake pads, a battery and scheduled maintenance are the the only cost that I have incurred on this car.
It is true that American cars are beginning to catch up but with the perception of poor quality and dependability, the big 3 have a difficult time convincing customers that they have turned a new leaf in building quality cars. The Chevy Impala and the Caddy CTS are examples of Chevy getting back on the right track. It is no ones fault but management and unions that they are in dire straights financially. The benes of retirees and current workers is going to sink the big 3 if they do not go into bankruptcy.
And just what benes would those be? What do they get that other companies don't provide?
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And just what benes would those be? What do they get that other companies don't provide?
Gold star medical insurance for retirees and his family at no cost to the employee. For example, the company pays benes for a 55 year old retiree for 10 years until the employees becomes eligible for medicare.Benefit #2--employees that are laid off get 75% of their salary for a certain length of time.
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Gold star medical insurance for retirees and his family at no cost to the employee. For example, the company pays benes for a 55 year old retiree for 10 years until the employees becomes eligible for medicare.Benefit #2--employees that are laid off get 75% of their salary for a certain length of time.
Wrong on both counts. I have a co-pay for my BC-BS. It's deducted from my pension each month. I have a co-pay each time I use it also.
The jobs bank paid 95% but was eliminated.