The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Toastedturningtidelegs on December 16, 2008, 10:03:31 AM
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:whatever: What isn't a war crime nowadays? :whatever:
NNN0LHI (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-16-08 10:59 AM
Original message
I am pretty sure this is a war crime
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11061831 /
How U.S. used Iraqi wives for ‘leverage’
Suspected insurgents' spouses jailed to force husbands to surrender
updated 2:39 p.m. CT, Fri., Jan. 27, 2006
The U.S. Army in Iraq has at least twice seized and jailed the wives of suspected insurgents in hopes of “leveraging†their husbands into surrender, U.S. military documents show.
In one case, a secretive task force locked up the young mother of a nursing baby, a U.S. intelligence officer reported. In the case of a second detainee, one American colonel suggested to another that they catch her husband by tacking a note to the family’s door telling him “to come get his wife.â€
The issue of female detentions in Iraq has taken on a higher profile since kidnappers seized American journalist Jill Carroll on Jan. 7 and threatened to kill her unless all Iraqi women detainees are freed.
The U.S. military on Thursday freed five of what it said were 11 women among the 14,000 detainees currently held in the 2½-year-old insurgency. All were accused of “aiding terrorists or planting explosives,†but an Iraqi government commission found that evidence was lacking.
Iraqi human rights activist Hind al-Salehi contends that U.S. anti-insurgent units, coming up empty-handed in raids on suspects’ houses, have at times detained wives to pressure men into turning themselves in.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4661116
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Now, this is just really stupid of the grouchy old primitive.
That "practice" is about as old as humanity.
And one suspects the grouchy old primitive knows it, but the grouchy old primitive just wants to gripe about something.
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from the PMSNBC story . . . and the story supporting the thread is from january of 2006.
Iraq’s deputy justice minister, Busho Ibrahim Ali, dismissed such claims, saying hostage-holding was a tactic used under the ousted Saddam Hussein dictatorship, and “we are not Saddam.†A U.S. command spokesman in Baghdad, Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, said only Iraqis who pose an “imperative threat†are held in long-term U.S.-run detention facilities.
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Yes, prisoner taking for leverage against hostile combatants is now a "war-crime". :whatever:
One of the DUmmies on the thread has also extrapolated "in custody" into "torture", as well.
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DCKit (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-16-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. Horrible, but it pales compared to the child rapes they allowed...
in order to get the detainees to talk.
Nothing we've done in the M.E. these past eight years passes any smell test.
Another troop supporter with anecdotal evidence fabricated from thin air...
ETA:
and the DUmmy gets called out on the BS...
Rebubula (141 posts) Tue Dec-16-08 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Not challenging you...
...but can you provide a link to the child rape allegation? Though I distrust our government, I have known too many Marines and Soldiers to believe this...but I have been disappointed by my fellow man many times.
followed with...
DCKit (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-16-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. C'mon, you're sitting in front of a computer...
and I don't see why I should be doing your research for you.
****ing liar...
and then a link from DailyKos for confirmation...
KansDem (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-16-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Seymour Hersh first reported on this...
Seymour Hersh says the US government has videotapes of boys being sodomized at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
"The worst is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking," the reporter told an ACLU convention last week. Hersh says there was "a massive amount of criminal wrongdoing that was covered up at the highest command out there, and higher."
Daily Kos
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Don't worry. Any reports of things like this that happen after Jan 20th will be dismissed by the DUmp as MSM propaganda to harm the Il Duce administration.
.
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Well, I'm pretty sure most of the stuff I read at the DUmp is treason, but they're still roaming free.
well, so to speak. but simply by virtue of the fact that they post at DU means that they are stuck in the Matrix. :-)
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I'm pretty sure that the grouchy old primitive has a bad case of dingleberries.
That would explain his complete and total idiocy in that if he were able to extract said dingleberries from his nether regions, he wouldn't find a need to make himself look like a complete imbecile.
:mental:
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Maybe, just maybe the wives were accomplishes in the husband's terrorist activities. At the very least they knew of them and did not alert authorities, which again makes them accomplices.
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I'm pretty sure that the grouchy old primitive has a bad case of dingleberries.
That would explain his complete and total idiocy in that if he were able to extract said dingleberries from his nether regions, he wouldn't find a need to make himself look like a complete imbecile.
:mental:
He's just an old grouch, the grouchy old primitive.
He lives in Illinois, in or near that one county south of Chicago; that one county whose boundaries (Ford County, I think) are surely the most screwed-up county boundaries in the 50 states.
It looks as if a long-ago Democrat gerrymandered it.
But.....I suppose if I lived in a county whose boundaries had no rational geographic purposes to exist, I'd be grouchy too.
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Maybe, just maybe the wives were accomplishes in the husband's terrorist activities. At the very least they knew of them and did not alert authorities, which again makes them accomplices.
I'm sure they had no idea that their husbands had built a makeshift, IED workshop...
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He's just an old grouch, the grouchy old primitive.
He lives in Illinois, in or near that one county south of Chicago; that one county whose boundaries (Ford County, I think) are surely the most screwed-up county boundaries in the 50 states.
It looks as if a long-ago Democrat gerrymandered it.
But.....I suppose if I lived in a county whose boundaries had no rational geographic purposes to exist, I'd be grouchy too.
Well, you certainly know the primitives far better than I do. I'm still utterly amazed at some of the drivel that comes out of that vomitorium.
There are a lot of people who post over there and many members of this site monitor the lunacy that is incredible to behold. I do my best to avoid even reading about the stupidity on DU, but this particular one caught my eye.
"I'm pretty sure this is a war crime" is almost as silly as "my name is Obama and I'm here to help you."
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This is just like how during the invasion the Iraqi's held wives and families hostage to force the fathers/husbands to go running up to our tanks with an AK. :whatever:
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Detaining them is well within bounds as they are suspected hostiles. After all, they share a home with a wanted terrorist, and aren't trying to leave it, so there is a reasonable suspicion they are active or passive accessories to the criminal activity of the spouse, which does merit detention for further investigation. Obama concepts of warfare notwithstanding, you don't need a probable cause warrant from a Federal judge to put the Habeus Grabus on people in a war zone, reasonable suspicion is enough.
Harming them, or exposing them to harm by dragging them along as hostages to forestall ambushes, yeah, that really is a Law of War violation, but that's not what was described.
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Here'a concept the lurking DUmmies won't like...maybe the wives wanted their terrorist husbands to be caught.
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KansDem (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-16-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Seymour Hersh first reported on this...
Seymour Hersh says the US government has videotapes of boys being sodomized at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
"The worst is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking," the reporter told an ACLU convention last week. Hersh says there was "a massive amount of criminal wrongdoing that was covered up at the highest command out there, and higher."
Daily Kos
Now you know that if that asshat had such a video, every DUmpmonkey would have a copy of it in his home video library..........and would be glad to share it with anyone sick enough to want to see it.
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Here'a concept the lurking DUmmies won't like...maybe the wives wanted their terrorist husbands to be caught.
Since alot of women over there are either forced to marry certain men or the marriage is arranged it's not a stretch to believe that!
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War is, at best, a messy, dirty, sloppy, unfair affair.
War sometimes being necessary--as it was for the Liberation of Kuwait, and then ten years later the Liberation Afghanistan and the Liberation of Iraq--well, one just has to put up with it.
If, for example, the United States were invaded, I wouldn't expect things to be peachy-keen, with either the Americans defending me, or the invaders invading me.
In fact, I'd expect some pretty bad things.
However, all that being said, it needs pointed out that in all the history of warfare, from the beginning of mankind to the present, the Americans and British, as occupiers, have a sterling record for humaneness and fairness, when compared with all other occupiers.
Not perfect, but miles and miles and miles above the records of others.
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War is, at best, a messy, dirty, sloppy, unfair affair.
War sometimes being necessary--as it was for the Liberation of Kuwait, and then ten years later the Liberation Afghanistan and the Liberation of Iraq--well, one just has to put up with it.
If, for example, the United States were invaded, I wouldn't expect things to be peachy-keen, with either the Americans defending me, or the invaders invading me.
In fact, I'd expect some pretty bad things.
However, all that being said, it needs pointed out that in all the history of warfare, from the beginning of mankind to the present, the Americans and British, as occupiers, have a sterling record for humaneness and fairness, when compared with all other occupiers.
Not perfect, but miles and miles and miles above the records of others.
That fact is lost on the DUmmies, Frank. They believe that is propaganda being fed to us from our evil military and their "Friends" at the MSM. :whatever:
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That fact is lost on the DUmmies, Frank. They believe that is propaganda being fed to us from our evil military and their "Friends" at the MSM. :whatever:
Yeah, I know, that "relativity" thing, where Bush = Hitler, where Benedict XVI = Khomeni, where British colonizers = Soviet colonizers, where Republicans steal elections just as much as Democrats steal elections, that sort of thing.
Where the primitives are perceived as being just as good, just as decent, just as civilized, as good decent civilized people.
Which of course is utter bullshit.
That really stupid "everything's relative" stuff.
Fortunately, life really is absolute, not relative.
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KansDem (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-16-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Seymour Hersh first reported on this...
Seymour Hersh says the US government has videotapes of boys being sodomized at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
"The worst is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking," the reporter told an ACLU convention last week. Hersh says there was "a massive amount of criminal wrongdoing that was covered up at the highest command out there, and higher."
Daily Kos
Now you know that if that asshat had such a video, every DUmpmonkey would have a copy of it in his home video library..........and would be glad to share it with anyone sick enough to want to see it.
I wonder if the reporter mentioned to the ACLU convention that those doing the sodomizing were Iraqis?
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I wonder if the reporter mentioned to the ACLU convention that those doing the sodomizing were Iraqis?
Why let a minor technicality like that get in the way of some good ol troop bashing?
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It doesn't surprise me that DU views this as worse than when the terrorists held families hostage until the family patriarch drove bomb laden truck on a suicide mission at U.S. soldiers.