The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on December 12, 2008, 12:31:33 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.org/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=336x4877
Oh my.
franksolich just discovered a new forum on Skins's island; never saw it before, this AA forum.
dsc (1000+ posts) Sun Sep-28-08 11:16 AM
Original message
When we will stop needing gay AA groups
I haven't been to a meeting in a while for a variety of reasons. But lately life got chaotic so I desided to seek out a meeting and went to a gay one. I am glad they are here, part of my chaos is due to issues about being gay at least peripherally, but part of it was sad in that we have to keep a double anonyminity. It took me forever to find a sponser due to having the advice I should have a sponser of a different gender but then going to a place where gays were almost non existent.
I know many people in AA are tolerant and some aren't (just like anywhere else) but clearly it is still enough of a problem that gay members feel the need to self segregate. I will likely come back to that group when I need a meeting but I kind of wish it wasn't a needed group.
AZDemDist6 (1000+ posts) Sun Sep-28-08 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. I dunno
I got sober in California and we had lots of gay members in my large home group.
there were some gay meetings too, but they came to the 'regular' meetings too and were welcomed.
on the rare occasion a newcomer said something, the oldtimers took them aside and gave them a talking to.
a suffering alcoholic is just that, gay straight black white brown old young rich poor period.
dsc (1000+ posts) Sun Sep-28-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. fair enough
I honestly have never been out in AA except at the gay AA meetings. In my early recovery I just kind of kept that to myself and the sponser I eventually found. When I became more out at work etc, I was not really attending meetings as I was down here where I haven't really found meetings that clicked for me nor did I really find a huge need to find them. Now I am going so I guess I might find out how it is. The meeting I went to last night specificly mentioned keeping anonyminity of that meeting in other meetings so I am presuming a problem exists to some extent. Of course, people may have known I was gay and simply just didn't mention it out of kindness in my early recovery.
Redstone (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-30-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Jeez, I'm not happy to hear that you have that kind of problem. I'd think that people united to deal with a common problem would leave everything else aside.
But then, I'm new at this.
For the record, my name's frank, and I'm an alcoholic, and I've been sober since March 8, 1987. I should fit right in with this group, like an old comfortable pair of shoes.
CraftyGal (279 posts) Sat Dec-06-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. My sponsor, who is definetly heterosexual, is aware that I am bisexual.
She is fine wit it, however it is a big question because the gay groups also help the bisexual person.
FloridaJudy (1000+ posts) Sun Dec-07-08 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. Maybe I'm just plain lucky
But I've never heard anyone speak disrespectfully of GBLTs in the rooms. I did hear one homophobic comment from an AA member, but it was not during a meeting. I politely pointed out that that sort of remark was not acceptable to me, and she hasn't done it since. She's married to a rabid Republican, poor thing, so I imagine she gets exposed to a lot of hateful speech at home.
Oddly enough, the only time I heard something viciously racist during a meeting was in Northern California, of all unlikely places. It may exist here, but at least people are decent enough not to drag it to a meeting. I think they know just what an unfriendly reception it would get.
CraftyGal (279 posts) Sun Dec-07-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. In my homegroup we still get homophobic remarks.
In fact I was chairing the speaker meeting for November and asked a friend in the program to speak. People walked out becasue he identified as being gay. My secretary was mad until she listened to the whole story and was able to identify with him on the key points. It is a struggle to be in a group that has homophobic members, however as one member says "If I given you a resentment, I have given you something to work on." I firmly believe that over time people can change, because if they don't they will drink again, it is just a matter of time.
You need a little enlightenment here, craftsgirl primitive.
What's this "my" secretary stuff?
Do you own her or something?
(Oh, yeah, I forgot; the Democrats were the slaveholding party, and old habits are hard to expunge.)
She may work for you, you may be her boss, but you don't own her.
Trust me, craftsgirl primitive, being overly possessive of others hinders recovery.
Kajsa (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-11-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Damn, that is sad, CraftyGal.
I'm sorry to hear this.
Kajsa (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-11-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Dsc, I sure hope you aren't finding bigotry at the meetings!
Like Redstone said, we are there to recover, not judge people or discriminate against them.
I remember very early in my sobriety being at a meeting where a squirrelly one blurted out the terms " towel head"and "sand n***ers" when discussing an encounter with a man from the Middle East.
There was a member there who is Pakistani. He looked like someone had just hit him over the head with a 2 by 4!
I lost it blurting out "F**k that sh*t!!" ( I swore a lot in the beginning) " We are here to recover, leave your f**king bigotry at the door and don't bother picking it up again when you leave!!"
I thought I would be kicked out but I wasn't.
That was the first and last time I lost it at a meeting.
Thankfully, I have never encountered bigotry at meetings since.
Hang in there.
The incident with the Pakistani being humiliated smacks of a stretchy, but then and again, newly-recovering ones tend to make things up.
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When there are no more gays.
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Doctors specialize, lawyers specialize, now even the drunks are specializing.
If I become a drunk, where can I find a white, straight, fat, tall, blue eyed, old man, grey haired, southern racist, sexist, AA group?
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Doctors specialize, lawyers specialize, now even the drunks are specializing.
If I become a drunk, where can I find a white, straight, fat, tall, blue eyed, old man, grey haired, southern racist, sexist, AA group?
My mother went to AA when I was 15 and still attends meetings. Five immediate family members currently attend I went to Ala-Teen for a while.
What's the difference between gay and straight alcoholics? After drinking do they stick the bottle "you know where"?
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What's the difference between gay and straight alcoholics? After drinking do they stick the bottle "you know where"?
I never cared for this, having AA groups that excluded people.
Such as women's AA groups that excluded men, or gay AA groups that excluded non-gays.
One of the best ways of "recovery" is by accepting the world as it is, adapting to it, and moving on.....accepting whoever comes in the door.
As long as one excludes someone who might possibly do him good, one never beats the problem.
The last AA meeting I went to, about a year ago, in North Dakota, there was a serene Native American and myself. It wasn't a three-ring circus or anything, but it was okay.
I could be utterly unfair in saying this--I repeat, I could be utterly unfair in saying this--I repeat a third time, I could be utterly unfair in saying this, tarnishing the reputation of both AA and drunks--but it was my observation in Lincoln, Nebraska, and in Omaha, that gay AA groups were simply places where two male drunks could link up, without having to sift through the women and the straight males first.
You are right, very right; one drunk's the same as another drunk, no matter the color or the age or the gender or the sexual orientation.
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One of the best ways of "recovery" is by accepting the world as it is, adapting to it, and moving on.....accepting whoever comes in the door. As long as one excludes someone who might possibly do him good, one never beats the problem.
Alky's love to hang out with other Alkys, under the guise of "But they understand me".. I always advised members to go out in the world and meet new people and learn to get along with them as most people are not in AA. But I was always met with the same response: "Stop taking my inventory!" Jeez Louise! :whatever:
I could be utterly unfair in saying this--I repeat, I could be utterly unfair in saying this--I repeat a third time, I could be utterly unfair in saying this, tarnishing the reputation of both AA and drunks--but it was my observation in Lincoln, Nebraska, and in Omaha, that gay AA groups were simply places where two male drunks could link up, without having to sift through the women and the straight males first.
That's not unfair at all, in fact it's an astute observation. Two AA members should probably never hook up or get married. My sister met her husband at an AA meeting some 25 years ago, they've been on and off the wagon ever since. Fighting, separating, getting back together numerous times in those years. They stay together now because my sis has stopped listening to him. I love my sister but, geez what a marriage huh?
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Oh man, Uhhuh35, recovering drunks can be worse than drunks.
I believe the term's "dry alcoholic;" someone who quits drinking but retains the same attitudes, the same values, one had while drinking.
I had no idea we could be such rectal apertures, but it's true.
When I was active in AA twenty years ago, I was also the editor of the local AA newsletter. I must say the newsletter improved under my editorship, going from two 11x17 sheets folded in half to six or eight 11x17 sheets folded in half.
And subscriptions from several score up to the low one-thousands.
One time, near the end of my tenure--it was getting to be a hassle, dealing with the petty bitching-and-moaning--I reprinted an article from the Reader's Digest (with consent of course) about the perils of drinking and driving. The article was from 1935, although I disremember the exact month; the title was "And sudden death....."
Geezuz.
I got acquainted with primitives long before Skins's island existed.
There was so much bitchery-and-moanery, because the piece wasn't "AA Conference-Approved" literature. (I'm sure it would've been conference approved if someone had asked the conference, but nobody ever seemed to have.)
Damn, that caused an uproar.
The uproar was inspired by former editors of the newsletter, and the elitists among the local AA; it would be superfluous to add that I was dealing with a whole lot of neurotics here, those leaning or heavily Democrat, liberal, and primitive.
The general ordinary run-of-the-mill everyday average AA members liked what I was doing, and said so often. But there's people who count, and people who don't count.
The furor eventually died down, but there remained, and remains, some hard feelings among those on the other side. I quit doing the newsletter a couple of years after that, after which it considerably diminished, in both size and circulation.
I was always given a sort of "pass" on some things, because others understand that deafness gives one a perception utterly unlike perceptions held by hearing people, and the chasm can't be bridged. If I had been somebody else, the former editors and the elitists probably would've dumped me long before my tenure was up.
And of course I controlled the printing press.
I haven't been active in AA since my first five years there, 1987-1992, but that had nothing to do with AA itself. It's just that not being able to hear, just as with school and college classes, conferences and meetings, all I could ever do was be physically present, but sitting there like a bump on a log.
It was okay, but not great.
AA of course is a fine institution, but like many institutions, it doesn't fit in perfectly, or even somewhat perfectly, with the needs of all. AA gave me the basic ideas, the basic principles, after which I did the same thing I've done with all other things in life; I took those basic ideas and principles, and moved on, going my own way, listening to my own drummer.
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I never cared for this, having AA groups that excluded people.
Such as women's AA groups that excluded men, or gay AA groups that excluded non-gays.
One of the best ways of "recovery" is by accepting the world as it is, adapting to it, and moving on.....accepting whoever comes in the door.
As long as one excludes someone who might possibly do him good, one never beats the problem.
The last AA meeting I went to, about a year ago, in North Dakota, there was a serene Native American and myself. It wasn't a three-ring circus or anything, but it was okay.
I could be utterly unfair in saying this--I repeat, I could be utterly unfair in saying this--I repeat a third time, I could be utterly unfair in saying this, tarnishing the reputation of both AA and drunks--but it was my observation in Lincoln, Nebraska, and in Omaha, that gay AA groups were simply places where two male drunks could link up, without having to sift through the women and the straight males first.
You are right, very right; one drunk's the same as another drunk, no matter the color or the age or the gender or the sexual orientation.
Most of the "specialized" groups only meet once a week. These groups are not meant to be an alternative for the general groups but as an addition to where subjects can be discussed that pertain to that particular group. Men's groups talk about things that are specific to men, woman and gay groups likewise. These specialized groups should be encouraging members to become a part of a general group so that they have access to meetings every day.