The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: asdf2231 on December 04, 2008, 09:07:14 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4588869
graywarrior (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-04-08 07:47 PM
Original message
Jesus was brought up at my 12 step meeting and all hell broke loose
Advertisements [?]Woman chaired and then began to tell us that we needed to accept Jesus as our higher power. The room went INSANE! Right while I was expressing my concern about not hearing about Jesus at a meeting unless he had a problem with alcohol, the woman left her seat and ran out of the room. The AA grapeline is buzzing today.
Bornaginhooligan (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-04-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Did you tell her that Jesus is a myth and a superstition?
That hardens the heart and enslaves the mind?
ProfessorGAC (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-04-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. That Happened To My Friend Too
That was a long time ago. But, he was the one who objected to the "Jesus Thing". But, when he said it, nearly all the rest in the group agreed with him and told the group leader to knock it off.
But, it was a big deal for a while.
Hang in there. Whatever works for you is all that matters. My friend hasn't had a drink in something like 24 years.
The Professor
graywarrior (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-04-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. 22 years for me
But it pissed me off to watch two newcomers walk out because of that crap
dixiegrrrrl (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-04-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
85. Thanking you for sharing.
Seriously.
After all the decades of trying to overcome the baseless "god" image of 12 Step Programs,
that incident sonded like a huge set back.
Actually sounded like Fundie sabotage.
And to have newcomers walk out. Damn.
Any serious friend of Bill would be very upset about that.
Catshrink (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-04-08 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Sounds like she's changing one addiction for another.
Religion can be just as harmful and debilitating as any drug addiction.
:whatever:
notmyprez (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-04-08 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Umm, but isn't a central point of AA about submitting to a higher power?
I thought that God was an essential component of AA. You know, the Serenity Prayer and such. (I'm talking about the traditional Alcoholics Anonymous, not other recovery groups.) When my friend went into rehab, he elected not to also do AA specifically because of its religious component. (He's an agnostic.)
graywarrior (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-04-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. **** no. 90% of the people there wouldn't stay if that was the case
It's really more of a spiritual program and a strong fellowship. Most of my friends today are 12 step people.
RedCappedBandit (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-04-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Yes.
The twelve steps:
1. We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. We came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. We made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, as we understood Him.
4. We made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. We admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. We were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. We humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. We made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. We made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. We continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. We sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us, and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of those steps, we tried to carry this message to addicts and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
How you can read this and believe the crap they put forth about it having nothing to do with religion is beyond me. 12 step advocates that I have dealt with don't seem to understand that, yes, there really are atheists out there. I hate everything about the 12 steps, but I'm glad so many people do find them helpful. Not my bag of tea, though.
graywarrior (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-04-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. But GOD is referred to alot as Group of Drunks
Many of us cannot tolerate the god thing in the religeous sense.
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Anyone ever consider that the reason they might be drunks is because they hate God?
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graywarrior (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-04-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. 22 years for me
But it pissed me off to watch two newcomers walk out because of that crap
They most likely walked out because you were screaming like a banshee about your delicate, atheist ears being soiled by the mere mention of supernatural entity at a group meeting of a organization that has its core roots intertwined with that as a basis for recovery.
ETA: But, this story is most likely a bouncy anyway and dismiss it as such.
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That's her problem, she has no God in her life. God helps those who help themselves. Something DUmmies don't understand.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4573282
Boo Hoo.
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That's her problem, she has no God in her life. God helps those who help themselves. Something DUmmies don't understand.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4573282
Boo Hoo.
I was talking to my moonbat brother (who lives with my dad and is nearing 50). He was telling me again how screwed up his life is and how he needs to change. Then he told me it was time to put himself first (which is what he has been doing his whole life). I wanted to tell him to put God first for once and see how his life goes but he doesn't believe in God and it would be useless to say anything to him.
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I hear where you're coming from. My BIL thinks he's owed something in life, he too comes first. I used to feel pity for him but now I see my husband working twice as hard to make sure his brother gets the freebies. He's nearly 50 too.
How did they get so screwed up ?
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Primitive graywarrior says he's a 12 step person, as well as his friends, but then he didn't know the 12 step program mentioned God 4 times, makes several references to religion and religious practices, and then gets upset because someone brings up religion in an AA meeting? Somethings not quite truthful, like most all of the story.
.
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I hear where you're coming from. My BIL thinks he's owed something in life, he too comes first. I used to feel pity for him but now I see my husband working twice as hard to make sure his brother gets the freebies. He's nearly 50 too.
How did they get so screwed up ?
My Mom and I ask the same question to each other all the time.
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My husband and I are just as puzzled. :-)
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My husband and I are just as puzzled. :-)
I just couldn't believe the dummie who told gray to hold on because Barack would take care of everything. No he can't!
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4588869
:whatever:
Every time I hear this, I ask these asshats where did the "Big Bang" come from?
Then, I ask them to explain DNA!
Amazing how they just start stuttering!
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How long had this idiot been going?
I still thank god for sending down a strong clear message to me about that. It amounted to "Lay off the sauce, dolt!"
Delerium Tremens are not fun.
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4588869
:whatever:
The 12 steps of AA....1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
God is a pretty central figure in AA :uhsure: Maybe the dummie should just continue drinking itself into a stupor so as not to offend it's own atheistic sensibilities :whatever:
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The 12 steps of AA....God is a pretty central figure in AA :uhsure: Maybe the dummie should just continue drinking itself into a stupor so as not to offend it's own atheistic sensibilities :whatever:
And to do the world a favor by killing itself.
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I don't mean to be crass, because I understand all too well the disease of alcoholism and the difficult process that it is to deal with it.
However....
....no wonder there are so many DUmmies who are addicts. They have a hard enough time accepting step 1, then comes step 2 with the "Higher Power" and they're right back to drinking or using drugs again. Just because they argue about the words "Higher Power" and "God".
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Bornaginhooligan (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-04-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Did you tell her that Jesus is a myth and a superstition?
That hardens the heart and enslaves the mind?
Really? Tell that to the Romans.
Considering it's screen name, this truly makes no sense.
Complete DUmbass.
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Really? Tell that to the Romans.
Considering it's screen name, this truly makes no sense.
Complete DUmbass.
That's why I nominated him for Top 10 DUmmies of 2008. His body of work puts him in a catagory of retards of the highest order.
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Noteworthy that he was obviously there to work on his own failing, but turned it into an exercise of why he was right and the program was wrong, thereby totally destroying the original purpose of his visit. Typical DUmmie.
:mental:
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What an asshole.
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The 12 steps of AA....God is a pretty central figure in AA :uhsure: Maybe the dummie should just continue drinking itself into a stupor so as not to offend it's own atheistic sensibilities :whatever:
Yup. The DUmmy may be involved in some New Age secular permutation of the program, but as someone who has worked off and on in substance abuse treatment for years, I can say he's an idiot if he doesn't believe God plays a central role in traditional AA.
Sounds to me like the two newcomers who "walked out" just got thirsty and found a convenient reason to head to the old watering hole. :cheersmate:
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Sounds like graywarrior is developing a serious set of resentments against Jesus, Christians and the woman that chaired the meeting she is referring to. To be true to her AA principles she must now acknowledge her resentments and then seek the forgiveness of those she resents. A searching and fearless moral inventory must be taken everyday.