The Conservative Cave
The Help Desk => Computer Related Discussions & Questions => Topic started by: franksolich on November 13, 2008, 03:13:45 PM
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I was in the big city this afternoon, circa 2:00 p.m. central time, 1:00 p.m. mountain time, looking over an array of used computers for sale by the regional technical college.
I'm still using this library computer with Windows98, and the nephew has gotten me one more up-to-date, but he's in Omaha and it's a long drive out here (especially if one has no reason other than to see me, to come out here), and so that won't get here until sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Anyway, so I thought it would be a good idea to have a "spare," something a little bit less than what the nephew has, but much more than what this with Windows98 has; since winter's here now in the Sandhills of Nebraska, it's always good to have a "spare" of just about anything and everything.
I went to this technical college, where in an auditorium, they had tables and tables of computers. I was interested only in those with Windows XP or Windows Vista, which was about 75% of them, for sale anywhere between $20 and $200.
However.
I was told the computers are sold minus "memory."
Oops. I don't know anything about that, so I passed.
Was that smart, or is installing "memory" something a person of only casual knowledge of computers can do?
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I was in the big city this afternoon, circa 2:00 p.m. central time, 1:00 p.m. mountain time, looking over an array of used computers for sale by the regional technical college.
I'm still using this library computer with Windows98, and the nephew has gotten me one more up-to-date, but he's in Omaha and it's a long drive out here (especially if one has no reason other than to see me, to come out here), and so that won't get here until sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Anyway, so I thought it would be a good idea to have a "spare," something a little bit less than what the nephew has, but much more than what this with Windows98 has; since winter's here now in the Sandhills of Nebraska, it's always good to have a "spare" of just about anything and everything.
I went to this technical college, where in an auditorium, they had tables and tables of computers. I was interested only in those with Windows XP or Windows Vista, which was about 75% of them, for sale anywhere between $20 and $200.
However.
I was told the computers are sold minus "memory."
Oops. I don't know anything about that, so I passed.
Was that smart, or is installing "memory" something a person of only casual knowledge of computers can do?
These Dells or HP ? HP is IMHO a better computer. Dells built to "Industry standards" so theoretically easier & cheaper to repair whereas HP is built in a proprietary Architectural standard. As far as memory goes it's relatively cheap nowadays, cheapest & best upgrade available for computers. Yes a novice can install memory.
Gets the gang at Tiger direct or newegg or such to build you a puter. You pick out the parts & specs and they build it for you.
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I was in the big city this afternoon, circa 2:00 p.m. central time, 1:00 p.m. mountain time, looking over an array of used computers for sale by the regional technical college.
I'm still using this library computer with Windows98, and the nephew has gotten me one more up-to-date, but he's in Omaha and it's a long drive out here (especially if one has no reason other than to see me, to come out here), and so that won't get here until sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Anyway, so I thought it would be a good idea to have a "spare," something a little bit less than what the nephew has, but much more than what this with Windows98 has; since winter's here now in the Sandhills of Nebraska, it's always good to have a "spare" of just about anything and everything.
I went to this technical college, where in an auditorium, they had tables and tables of computers. I was interested only in those with Windows XP or Windows Vista, which was about 75% of them, for sale anywhere between $20 and $200.
However.
I was told the computers are sold minus "memory."
Oops. I don't know anything about that, so I passed.
Was that smart, or is installing "memory" something a person of only casual knowledge of computers can do?
Well, I've done it. I see no reason why you couldn't. The problem would be knowing which memory to buy.
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Installing memory is very easy. The bigger problem with computers like that is determining WHICH memory one needs, at least for the novice.
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Installing memory is very easy. The bigger problem with computers like that is determining WHICH memory one needs, at least for the novice.
I found out the hard way that some computer and chip manufacturers require memory to be installed in pairs (I think Kingston may be the biggest offender), so you're stucking buying two pieces instead of one. I thought they stopped doing this when EDO RAM and 486s went out the window ten years ago.
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My boss uses crucial.com for memory. They have a scan that will detect your motherboard specs and tell you what memory you need. Evidently, it's safe, our IT department allows it through the firewall at work.
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My boss uses crucial.com for memory. They have a scan that will detect your motherboard specs and tell you what memory you need. Evidently, it's safe, our IT department allows it through the firewall at work.
MrsSmith, if there's NO memory in the computers, they won't even POST, let alone get to the internet.
I found out the hard way that some computer and chip manufacturers require memory to be installed in pairs (I think Kingston may be the biggest offender), so you're stucking buying two pieces instead of one. I thought they stopped doing this when EDO RAM and 486s went out the window ten years ago.
Thank God that with the PC66 and newer that they no longer need to be installed in pairs except if the motherboard requires ECC memory (usually for servers)
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Frank, with those computers you'll need to know what the Mother Board is, make wise. IF they are new enough they'll probably use 184 pin (refers to the size of the socket it plugs into) memory DDR 400 (PC 2100- 3200) which is CHEAP right now. Here's a page from Newegg. I know you probably don't understand all the jargon, but, again I'm guessing, the comps you are looking at probably use this. The bigger the # (2100 or more) the faster the memory. If they dont, IE: they use 168 pin memory, they are a waste of time.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000170147%201052107965&name=184-Pin%20DDR%20SDRAM
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Frank, with those computers you'll need to know what the Mother Board is, make wise. IF they are new enough they'll probably use 184 pin (refers to the size of the socket it plugs into) memory DDR 400 (PC 2100- 3200) which is CHEAP right now. Here's a page from Newegg. I know you probably don't understand all the jargon, but, again I'm guessing, the comps you are looking at probably use this. The bigger the # (2100 or more) the faster the memory. If they dont, IE: they use 168 pin memory, they are a waste of time.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000170147%201052107965&name=184-Pin%20DDR%20SDRAM
You're right; it's Greek to me.
Whenever I've destroyed computers, I've always noticed the "memory" thingamajig looks like, roughly, a harmonica. Sort of. You get my drift.
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MrsSmith, if there's NO memory in the computers, they won't even POST, let alone get to the internet.
Yep, obviously not helpful for frank. However, it's useful for those of us who don't enjoy spending precious time growling through the TigerDirect directions. :-) :-) My daughter has a PC with 256K in it. (No I'm not kidding.) It took the crucial site about 10 minutes to load, and then it scanned...I expected it to say something like NO WAY, GET A REAL PC...but it just advised her to buy 2 gig...ASAP. :-)
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These Dells or HP ? HP is IMHO a better computer. Dells built to "Industry standards" so theoretically easier & cheaper to repair whereas HP is built in a proprietary Architectural standard. As far as memory goes it's relatively cheap nowadays, cheapest & best upgrade available for computers. Yes a novice can install memory.
Gets the gang at Tiger direct or newegg or such to build you a puter. You pick out the parts & specs and they build it for you.
These days, with a few exceptions HP / Compaq machines just use consumer level parts (Gigabyte boards come to mind) the peripheral boards like modem and video especially. Look at the mainboard in a fairly recent HP desktop and one can get the brand / model form it , and from there the memory spec and requirements. They DO have a DMI "tattoo" matched to a EXTHS to give that funky HP BIOS splash screen and to verify to their installers that it really IS a HP computer. Exceptions being the small footprint type micro-towers and that sorta thing.
Packard Bell , still had proprietary mainboards when I was working for their local service center a few years ago.
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LC, you need to remember that Frank has NO "geek points". To find the motherboard model # can be a bit of a PITA if one doesn't know specifically what they are looking for and trying to walk somebody through all that over the net isn't easy.
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LC, you need to remember that Frank has NO "geek points".
Exactly, sir; that's why I said "thank you, but no thank you."
I weigh risks before I do anything.
In this case, I was weighing the risks of getting a non-memoried unit and trying to memory it, and just waiting until the nephew comes up from Omaha with a complete ready-to-use unit.
I figured the former involved more risk (impatience, confusion, exasperation) than the latter, so unless something else comes up, I'm just waiting for the nephew.
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Exactly, sir; that's why I said "thank you, but no thank you."
I weigh risks before I do anything.
In this case, I was weighing the risks of getting a non-memoried unit and trying to memory it, and just waiting until the nephew comes up from Omaha with a complete ready-to-use unit.
I figured the former involved more risk (impatience, confusion, exasperation) than the latter, so unless something else comes up, I'm just waiting for the nephew.
This, my Padawan, shall be your path. :-)
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I don't see the purpose of selling a computer sans memory. I could understand being paranoid and removing the hard drive, but why the memory?
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I don't see the purpose of selling a computer sans memory. I could understand being paranoid and removing the hard drive, but why the memory?
You got me, sir, but apparently that's what they do.
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I don't see the purpose of selling a computer sans memory. I could understand being paranoid and removing the hard drive, but why the memory?
Being puters purchased by a school they more than likely were bought with the intention of networking them.Dummy terminals don't need memory. So from a business purchase standpoint it makes sense.
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Being puters purchased by a school they more than likely were bought with the intention of networking them.Dummy terminals don't need memory. So from a business purchase standpoint it makes sense.
Hmmmm.
So that must be why I was the only person there looking for "one" computer.
There were probably a dozen people there, and buying six or eight of them, and those I asked, told me the computers were for "business."
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Hmmmm.
So that must be why I was the only person there looking for "one" computer.
There were probably a dozen people there, and buying six or eight of them, and those I asked, told me the computers were for "business."
I bet they were purchasing them for "Business". buy them & turn around and sell them at a 300 - 400 % mark up,minus a couple bucks for RAM.
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Being puters purchased by a school they more than likely were bought with the intention of networking them.Dummy terminals don't need memory. So from a business purchase standpoint it makes sense.
Thanks, I didn't know that about networked computers.
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Being puters purchased by a school they more than likely were bought with the intention of networking them.Dummy terminals don't need memory. So from a business purchase standpoint it makes sense.
:confused: Dummy terminals still need memory; the shell has to reside somewhere.
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They do. I think many places will pull the memory so they don't have to buy new. This comes from the days when memory was expensive, but in this day and age, memory is so cheap the days of it being like gold in it's pricing are long gone.
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:confused: Dummy terminals still need memory; the shell has to reside somewhere.
ROM.
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I know this is nitpicking, but...
Huh? You still need volatile memory, as we did when the company I worked for bought a few hundred Neoware dumb terminals for a Citrix server, and I had to upgrade the RAM on each one of them.
From the original post:
I went to this technical college, where in an auditorium, they had tables and tables of computers. I was interested only in those with Windows XP or Windows Vista, which was about 75% of them, for sale anywhere between $20 and $200.
However.
I was told the computers are sold minus "memory."
I've never heard of an actual computer operating entirely off of ROM. Calculators, sure, but computers? What OS runs without any volatile memory?
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I know this is nitpicking, but...
Huh? You still need volatile memory, as we did when the company I worked for bought a few hundred Neoware dumb terminals for a Citrix server, and I had to upgrade the RAM on each one of them.
From the original post:
I've never heard of an actual computer operating entirely off of ROM. Calculators, sure, but computers? What OS runs without any volatile memory?
To be really pedantic, any machine with much more than a 8 segment display needs memory to map the video output.
Example being in DOS the video memory was from $000a:0000 to $000a:FFFF
So when you wanted to "draw" something on the screen , you changed the values in that memory range to be what you wanted. I used the 320*200*256 (mode 13h) where the $000a:0001 was the x=0 ; y=0 , and used a 64K buffer to draw on then "flip" that to the video memory.
(nb: There is only Assembler. Everything else is a imitation :-) )
.... As a comment on the original topic , whatever they replaced the machine with probably used the same type of memory or they had another asset that did , so elected to keep it.