The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: ScubaGuy on November 07, 2008, 07:48:14 AM
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This California Prop 8 passing is letting the DUmmies show who the bigots really are.
One of several threads (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4401391#4401411)
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Nov-06-08 10:38 PM
Original message
We have a big problem here with people calling out black people
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and it's got to stop.
people from all races, religions and backgrounds voted for Prop. 8 --anyone upset about the result of this civil rights issue is on thin ice when they single out ONE racial group of people for criticism for something that has been done by people from all groups.
i think anyone who engages in this sort of thing should be gone-d from here.
chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Nov-06-08 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Word. It's scapegoating. And racist.
cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Nov-06-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
59. SEVEN in TEN blacks voted FOR. That's homophobic and bigoted. It's not racist to say that it is.
It's just being truthful, unless you can find some OTHER reason than homophobia and/or bigotry to explain the fact that SEVEN in TEN voting blacks voted YES.
IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Nov-06-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #59
116. What about the 3 out of 10 that did not vote for it? Stereotyping is always bull shit.
cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Nov-07-08 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #116
215. You classify the THREE in any way you want, and I'll classify the SEVEN in any way I want.
That doesn't make you or me wrong. I guess homophobic bigotry is in the eye of the beholder.
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Nov-06-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
129. It's a bullshit statistic from a bullshit poll
readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Nov-07-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #129
157. Oh, so now exit polls are bullshit. Rightttt.
newtothegame Donating Member (244 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Nov-07-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #59
172. Very true...
Edited on Fri Nov-07-08 12:38 AM by newtothegame
Problem is so many DU'ers are so self-loathing over slavery a century and half ago that an AA being elected president in the face of no physical barriers is more important than ACTUAL PHYSICAL BARRIERS being put up against GLBT folk's FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS more and more EVERY DAY.
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Nov-07-08 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #172
212. another extremely insensitive post minimizing racism against blacks
and suggesting that such intolerance is easier and less of a problem than it is for gays.
big fail.
frankly, i don't keep score among groups. intolerance, institutional discrimination is a travesty no matter the victim.
there is nothing achieved when you say things that suggest that it's easier for blacks than gays. frankly, there is no way to compare and you shouldn't be so presumptuous as to try.
cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Nov-07-08 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #59
220. Okay, I'll play! I love a good game! Seven in Ten persons out of GROUP X voted Yes.
Are they bigoted and homophobic? What the **** would you say if seventy percent of whites voted YES? Would you say DON'T DENIGRATE THE WHITES, THEY'RE BEYOND REPROACH?
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Another thread (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4402884)
curse of greyface (114 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Nov-07-08 01:12 AM
Original message
Did the overt gentrification of historical black neighborhoods by gay couples cause a backlash.
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I've heard a lot of arguments on Prop 8's statistics. But I haven't heard any real explanations.
Let's assume for a moment that African Americans are no more homophobic nor religious than the general population at large.
Could there be another less obvious reason for the anti-gay hostility?
When I saw gay weddings on television I almost never saw people of color. I have heard gay men often explain they look for bad neighborhoods (read black) fix them up and sell the pieces to their friends. (Some of these men have TV shows where they explain how this is done.)
Could this process of gentrification of African American neighborhoods be a contributing factor to the homophobia in the black community? And if so what can be done to counter act these feelings?
Could the lack of visible people of color during gay events be a factor?
Is being gay considered acting white in the African American community?
Lets move past the numbers and look for a strategy to get a natural ally on our side.
Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Nov-07-08 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. Blacks hate gays because gays make neighborhoods nicer. This should be a fun thread.
joshcryer (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Nov-07-08 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. It's a very real thing. Watch PBS's "Flag Wars" and read Manuel Castells' book.
Flag Wars is especially relevant.
But this thread will undoubtedly be locked. It's far far too interesting to merit a non-flame war.
Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Fri Nov-07-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. Oh, right, it's entirely reasonable to believe
Edited on Fri Nov-07-08 01:31 AM by Occam Bandage
that the nationwide deeply ingrained homophobia prevalent in African-American culture is a result of rich white gay couples moving into gentrified areas. Why, just a month ago I overheard this conversation around 60th St. S. in Chicago:
"I heard Dante's on the DL"
"So?"
"So?! So?! Man, my cousin in San Francisco had to move out of his apartment last year. Couldn't afford the rent after bunch of them moved in the area."
"Really? Damn. Man, that shit's unnatural. It just ain't right. Can't believe Dante's like that."
"You ain't never lie."
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Stereotyping is always bull shit.
Unless you're talking about a brown shirted jack booted fundie rethuglican right?
:whatever:
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This is the type of thing I find to be perpetually funny at the DUmp. They can't come out and say outloud what everyone else already knows to be true.
I know and have worked with a lot of Latinos and blacks, as no doubt many of you have, and I can assure you they have no tolerance for tinkerbelles. In fact, I would say their dislike of them is even more pronounced than that of the average caucasian.
Now, go over to the DUmp and announce that and they'll jump your case. Fact is it's the truth.
.
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This is the type of thing I find to be perpetually funny at the DUmp. They can't come out and say outloud what everyone else already knows to be true.
I know and have worked with a lot of Latinos and blacks, as no doubt many of you have, and I can assure you they have no tolerance for tinkerbelles. In fact, I would say their dislike of them is even more pronounced than that of the average caucasian.
Now, go over to the DUmp and announce that and they'll jump your case. Fact is it's the truth.
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Du'ers need to understand that blacks and latinos are in general more socially conservative than they are! Try and tell a black man that gay marriage is a civil rights issue! :-)
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This is the type of thing I find to be perpetually funny at the DUmp. They can't come out and say outloud what everyone else already knows to be true.
I know and have worked with a lot of Latinos and blacks, as no doubt many of you have, and I can assure you they have no tolerance for tinkerbelles. In fact, I would say their dislike of them is even more pronounced than that of the average caucasian.
Now, go over to the DUmp and announce that and they'll jump your case. Fact is it's the truth.
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What amuses me about the Little Goons is how "stereotyping" is such a major sin, as bad as racism. Nevermind that there is no denying that stereotyping, like good humor, is always based in truth.
It is quite possible to form solid opinions about groups of people which are very true, but do not pertain to every individual. This is what drives liberals nuts as they try to create a facade reality to cover actual reality. They are driven by their need to dehumanize people by seeing only groups and denying the individual.
By demonizing "stereotyping", which protects their "groups", they do not have to consider the opinions of any individuals. When the individuals are unimportant or nonexistent, liberalism becomes much easier to swallow.
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How do liberals manage to win elections? Hell, how do they manage to walk and chew gum at the same time? They fall upon their own the second the election is over, in victory or defeat.
I can't believe these assholes beat us.
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How do liberals manage to win elections? Hell, how do they manage to walk and chew gum at the same time? They fall upon their own the second the election is over, in victory or defeat.
I can't believe these assholes beat us.
Should give you a good idea about how much work we have to do!
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I dunno. I think it's silly.
If franksolich had been gay in America, I don't think I would've endured a thousandth, a milllionth, of what blacks in America endured (unless one happened to have a white mother) a long time ago.
I don't blame blacks at all for being upset that gays think they've (the gays) have suffered as much as they (the blacks). There's no comparison.
It's like gays alleging to have been big-time victims of the National Socialists in Germany during the 1930s and 1940s--"just as bad as what the Jews suffered"--when in stark fact they were hardly ever noticed.
For those who don't know, those "badges" with the pink triangles in extermination camps were used to single out people found particularly troublesome to the National Socialists; "enemies of the state" whose identity was too "miscellaneous" to categorize, and hence, well, since it was available, they were tagged "homosexuals."
There never existed any deliberate effort by the National Socialists to wipe out gays, while of course their efforts to wipe out other people are well-known.
The "martyrdom" of gays is a hoax, a delusion.
Albanians have suffered more, endured more, than gays.
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I dunno. I think it's silly.
If franksolich had been gay in America, I don't think I would've endured a thousandth, a milllionth, of what blacks in America endured (unless one happened to have a white mother) a long time ago.
I don't blame blacks at all for being upset that gays think they've (the gays) have suffered as much as they (the blacks). There's no comparison.
It's like gays alleging to have been big-time victims of the National Socialists in Germany during the 1930s and 1940s--"just as bad as what the Jews suffered"--when in stark fact they were hardly ever noticed.
For those who don't know, those "badges" with the pink triangles in extermination camps were used to single out people found particularly troublesome to the National Socialists; "enemies of the state" whose identity was too "miscellaneous" to categorize, and hence, well, since it was available, they were tagged "homosexuals."
There never existed any deliberate effort by the National Socialists to wipe out gays, while of course their efforts to wipe out other people are well-known.
The "martyrdom" of gays is a hoax, a delusion.
Albanians have suffered more, endured more, than gays.
Frank I had always heard that the Nazi's actually lumped homosexuals into the mentally ill category....something that by the way up until 1974 The American Psychiatric Association considered a mental illness as well!
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Frank I had always heard that the Nazi's actually lumped homosexuals into the mentally ill category....something that by the way up until 1974 The American Psychiatric Association considered a mental illness as well!
They probably did, but if so, please notice only "certain" of them were sent to extermination camps, as a lot of the National Socialists themselves were gay--I give you the pederast Julius Streicher as one of many examples.
So, maybe 5,000 of them were classified as "mentally ill" and "unfit to live"--five thousand is nothing compared with millions of Jews, and the Russians, Hungarians, gypsies, Poles, Jehovah's Witnesses, &c., &c., &c. Not even a drop iln the bucket.
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Anytime you go outside urban cesspools like San Francisco and New York, and known meccas of perversion like Key West, queers are such a microscopic minority as to be invisible. If they are in excess of one in a thousand in normal parts of the country, I'd be shocked. Natural selection makes "queerness" a very rare genetic defect. Thats good, because normal brains are wired to find the perversion sickening. But even at a concentration of less than one in a thousand, when they congregate at a single spot like the DUmp, they make a lot of noise.
Think of it this way: One rarely sees a maggot. Flies, maybe, but hardly ever a maggot.
Until you turn over a rotting carcass.
I am glad we have rotting carcasses like the the Bay Area, New York, Key West, Fire Island, etc. Otherwise, the maggots might be a more common sight in normal America.
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Amazing to read through all the DUmpmonkiees indignation. Yet they refuse to accept the concept that society has rejected
faggot gay marriage.
DUmpmonkiees, it is NOT A RIGHT and HAS NEVER BEEN. It is not about hate or homophobia, it's about the people of California voting NO several years ago and the will of the people being usurped by a Mayor and Supreme court.
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How the hell is marriage a right? Whom can ugly people go to for redress in that case?
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Alfonzo made a good point about this issue. "Man, sure would be nice if black people 60 years ago could just take off their 'black suit' and hang it in the closet."
There is no comparison, fruits.
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They probably did, but if so, please notice only "certain" of them were sent to extermination camps, as a lot of the National Socialists themselves were gay--I give you the pederast Julius Streicher as one of many examples.
So, maybe 5,000 of them were classified as "mentally ill" and "unfit to live"--five thousand is nothing compared with millions of Jews, and the Russians, Hungarians, gypsies, Poles, Jehovah's Witnesses, &c., &c., &c. Not even a drop iln the bucket.
The gays in the concentration camps were usually workers for the camps as well. Few ever went intot eh death camps.
The whole anti-gay NAZI thing was Hitler's. After he snuffed Rohm alot of people thought he did it because ol' Adolf was a pole-smoker as a kid, turning tricks in Austria to make money while he was trying to be an art student.
Rohm's SA was full of gays, most of whon got the knife during kristalnacht.
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How the hell is marriage a right? Whom can ugly people go to for redress in that case?
NOW, code pink and the DNC.
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Gays actually had it pretty good from a historical standpoint. Historically, gays were not persecuted. Many primitive societies, like in Africa and South America tolerate and even encourage it. The Romans and Greeks saw it as a higher form of love. Homosexuals were persecuted because of religion, machismo, and Communism. Nazis were sexual deviants regardless of their sexual orientation. Hitler had sex with his own cousin. Gays have it much worse in Communist and Latin American nations. More gays were killed in the Soviet Union and China than in Nazis Germany and Spanish Inquistion COMBINED. Homosexuality was a capital offense in China and Soviet Union.
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I notice Obama supporters are feeling really down because of Prop 8.
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The gays in the concentration camps were usually workers for the camps as well. Few ever went into teh death camps.
The whole anti-gay NAZI thing was Hitler's. After he snuffed Rohm alot of people thought he did it because ol' Adolf was a pole-smoker as a kid, turning tricks in Austria to make money while he was trying to be an art student.
Rohm's SA was full of gays, most of whon got the knife during kristalnacht.
Well, I'm thinking of all the evidence that exists.
The only evidence we seem to have, of gays being "persecuted" by the National Socialists are those posters, ostensibly posted in places German soldiers stayed, as sort of way to teach them how to identify prisoners; the yellow star, the black star, the pink star (or triangle), whatnot.
One looks in vain for posters and publications and speeches decrying the gays in Germany, while of course archives are clogged with posters and publications and copies of speeches denouncing the Jews, eastern Europeans, Russians, gypsies, whatnot.
If there ever were such things, I'm sure the gay lobby would've unearthed them by now.
And so given the culture of Germany at the time (tolerant or indifferent of gays), I'm inclined to think those given the pink star, or pink triangle, were a sort of "miscellaneous." The National Socialists had to identify and categorize "enemies of the state," but some didn't fit any certain given definition.
Take, for example, a case of a blond-haired blue-eyed "Aryan" of Christian derivation with a Teutonic pedigree going back several hundred years, who hadn't committed any crime (felony or "against the state"), but was sent to the camps anyway.
The National Socialists were capricious in their judgements, and probably trainloads of people went to the camps based simply on the caprice of a local gautlier or something; they just didn't like the guy, and had the power to send him away.
But he had to be identified and categorized as something.
The antics of the gay Julius Streicher are well-known; that he got tumescent over whipping teenaged boys, and that he had the power to do so.
Well, after the gay Julius Streicher shot his wad, and if the lad still lived, what was to be done with him? Of course, sent to the camps. But as what?
This is what makes the gay lobby's current attempts to gain the same degree of martyrdom as Jews and eastern Europeans so ludicrous. There is no comparison, no comparison at all, It's not even the difference between an elephant and an ear-mite.
And ditto for the martyrdom of gays, as compared with what blacks in this country endured up to November 4, 2008; the "sufferings" of gays in America never came close to what those of African derivation suffered in this country until three days ago.
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I had never heard of the guy Frank talks about so I went to Google to see what he was all about. I went to Wiki and found this odd part in the entry. It talks about how he saw Adolf Hitler after a speech he had just given in 1921. Tell me that this isn't scary when you compare this past election year and the medias handling of the big Zero.
" I saw this man shortly before midnight, after he had spoken for three hours, drenched in perspiration, radiant. My neighbour said he thought he saw a halo around his head, and I experienced something which transcended the commonplace.â€
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Streicher
It seems a bit wierd at first but thats about it. It sounds just like how some people described Obama during the campain.
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" I saw this man shortly before midnight, after he had spoken for three hours, drenched in perspiration, radiant. My neighbour said he thought he saw a halo around his head, and I experienced something which transcended the commonplace.â€
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Streicher
Is that like saying he got a "tingle up his leg" from listening to der Fuhrer? :lmao:
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I'm still at a loss for how things are not equal. As a hetrosexual man I have the right to marry a woman. A homosexual man has the right to marry a woman. Seems like we have exactly the same rights...
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The tyranny of the minority.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Nov-06-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
59. SEVEN in TEN blacks voted FOR. That's homophobic and bigoted. It's not racist to say that it is.
If you said that during a why-are-blacks-disproportiantely-represented-in-prison-populations thread you'd be TSed before you hit the submit button.