The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: asdf2231 on October 31, 2008, 11:20:28 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4335724
HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-30-08 08:01 AM
Original message
FYI for our White Friends: Here's a form of discrimination you probably have no idea exists
I realize it's bad form to start a new thread in response to an existing thread, but I want to make a slightly broader point than is being raised in the existing thread. The existing thread is ejbr's thread "I just went OFF in a Starbucks":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4331784
The responses in that thread I think reveal the gulf between black and white experience -- no, not a gulf, a grand canyon of difference between our experiences and perceptions.
Like most people who responded to his post, I thought ejbr's reaction was insanely over the top -- until he mentioned down in post 94 that he is African American, and then it made perfect sense.
You see, in addition to not being followed around in stores and not experiencing other forms of day to day racial harassment, you probably have not experienced a particular kind of racial harassment that ejbr was reacting to, one that has been on a drastic increase since Obama became the nominee, since he became the likely winner of the election, and that will undoubtedly increase exponentially when he becomes president. Let's call it the "passive aggressive political commentary."
If you are African American and occasionally are in public places where conversation takes place -- especially places like cafes, bars and restaurants -- you become used to racists suddenly engaging in spirited discussion of social and political issues relating to race within earshot.
It goes something like this: You sit down to have a beer, and the guys at the next stool who were discussing the Yankees suddenly begin discussing "welfare" or OJ Simpson. Whereas the conversation about the Yankees was private, the conversation about welfare is suddenly loud enough for you to hear. In ejbr's case it was a conversation that switched from pick up lines to the problem of all of Obama's supporters being idiots. (Now what do you think is the likelihood that the person ejbr "overheard" knew that ejbr was an Obama supporter because of his skin color? And how would your assumption change if ejbr were a white man?)
Now, if you're white you probably think I (and ejbr) are being paranoid. But, of course, you haven't had the same experience, so you don't have the same perception. And that experience is the frequency with which "private" conversations between white people "just happen" to switch to welfare, African American crime rates, or now Obama (or more specifically the stupidity of all Obama supporters), in our presence and the peculiar way that the volume of those conversations increases in such a way that, what sounded from a certain distance like mumbling background noise when the conversation was about the Yankees becomes almost shouted disquisitions about race matters from the same distance.
But perhaps we are being paranoid. If so, my gosh, it's amazing how often white people discuss racial matters in bars and coffee shops, because we must just be listening in on a "random sample" of their conversational topics! How can we be having a racial divide in this country when white people seem to be discussing racial matters almost all the time?
On the other hand, if our perception is accurately shaped by experience then ejbr's explosion was justified, because, as I said, it's a form of "passive aggressive" behavior; it may be passive, but it's still aggression. Its basic point is: I can insult you by pretending to have a private conversation, and you can't insult me back. It may have seemed like a private conversation, but it wasn't.
And don't tell me to "do what Obama would do." We're not running for the presidency, and we don't have to pretend to like everyone, nor do we have to try to convert anyone to our cause. Our day to day "job" is to defend our own dignity and protect our sanity, which in part is accomplished by not bottling up our rage at when we encounter racists.
And oh yeah, anyone who does this kind of passive aggressive thing isn't going to vote for Obama anyway.
You racist Crackerass HONKEY Mutha****as!!!!!1111111111 :afro:
seabeyond (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-30-08 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. i did that the other day. i had a black guy carry out groceries. he read my stickers, we high five
over obama and the we proceeded to discuss obama. every white person that walked by was enveloped in my anger about taking away christianity from liberals and now saying we are not real americans and how they lack character and the dishonesty as they preach to me. lie lie lie
i dont want to feel guilty, and i dont want to stop. they are alkl welcome to come, interupt and tell me where i am wrong.
See!! He KNOWS black folks!!! :whatever:
Roxi (139 posts) Thu Oct-30-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
77. That's happened to me before
I took my three young children with me to the grocery store one evening while my husband was deployed. They were all tired and hungry and cranky, and I was just trying to grab some basics (milk, bread, etc.) at the commissary. My youngest child (at the time) had autism-like symptoms, so public places tended to set him off, especially when he's tired. I had my hands full, but I was keeping everyone under control as well as I could. I normally don't take them out when they are in that condition, but for whatever reason, it was important to go to the store at that time.
This older guy turned to another man nearby and said in a loud voice, "She's got more than she can handle, doesn't she?" Fortunately, the younger guy was polite enough to ignore that asshole, and he actually gave me a half-smile as a way of saying that he understood what was truly happening.
I was shaking with anger by the time I got to the car. I had to try very hard not to get frustrated with my children. Before that jerk said anything, I was being patient and understanding with the kids. After all, I knew they weren't feeling well, and I felt bad for taking them out in public in that condition. After that comment, though, I started to lose my patience, and I kept wishing I had gone off on the guy. He certainly deserved it.
The saddest part is that my husband was deployed. That guy was probably a retiree or a government contractor, and he probably should have realized that deployment causes a lot of added stress on families. Instead, he chose to be a complete passive-aggressive prick.
grannylib (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-30-08 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think I get you...I overhead something similar a couple years ago,
not about an election, but the same kind of thing, in a hospital waiting room. Quiet conversation between a couple of elderly white men, about the weather, farming, etc. - pretty innocuous conversation, no raised voices, etc. Then when a young woman with three kids came in, one VERY sick, and it became clear that she was on medical assistance, the conversation between the two men became much higher in volume, and the topic switched to "welfare queens" and "our tax dollars being wasted" and yes, "socialism" and all that kind of shit.
*sigh* I am really sorry to hear that there is still that kind of bullshit happening in our country, and that so many of our African American brothers and sisters are experiencing this crap.
BamaGirl (1000+ posts) Fri Oct-31-08 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #77
204. There always seems to be a bunch of these
people when I go to the commissary. When I was a young wife, I let them get away with it. Now, I give them a piece of my mind lol. And usually it doesn't have anything to do with my kids since they are much older now. But that kind of thing just ticks me off. I swear, there is something about the commissary that seems to bring out the worst in some people.
DangerDave921 (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-30-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. I am not AA
But as a white person, I've never been involved in any discussion when a fellow white person started bringing up racial issues when black people are within earshot. All I can offer is my personal experience on the issue. Does that prove it never happens? Of course not. Maybe it does happen. But I've never seen it.
Am I not supposed to disagree with you? Am I not supposed to offer my personal opinion?
HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-30-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. I'm assuming you are not racist
The two groups you point out are not the two races. It's African Americans and "racist Whites."
I would assume that because you are on DU you are progressive and not a racist. I also assume you don't hang out in coffee shops and bars with racists.
So exactly how would you have been involved in such a situation? My guess is you haven't, and that's it's basically outside your realm of experience.
Yet you are offering your "non-experience" as relevant data.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j137/therealdielan/6303stfu8_pg13-1.jpg)
DangerDave921 (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-30-08 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #32
41. you are right about that!
i.e., I am not a racist and don't hang out with racists. (Well there is my brother who blamed the housing crisis on the "f--king ni--ers" but we all have someone in our family we're emabarassed about).
I really meant no offense to you or your perceptions. I was just discussing it. Perception does not make reality, although it sure seems real to the one doing the perceiving. So I will say I don't know if this phenomena happens or not.
Chovexani (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-30-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #21
76. White Privilege Benefit #1973187
Being able to call "screenshots or it didn't happen!" when a PoC recounts a tale of racial harassment. Because if it didn't happen to a white person, it didn't happen!
DangerDave921 (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-30-08 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #76
92. I didn't say that
but whatever.
Chovexani (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-30-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #92
103. You didn't have to say it.
Edited on Thu Oct-30-08 11:20 AM by Chovexani
http://mmcisaac.faculty.asu.edu/emc598ge/Unpacking.html
Defensiveness when confronted by someone calling out your privilege is not helpful.
And no, I'm not nearly as nice as HamdenRice.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/oniprime/****-you-cracka.jpg)
Tons of fun stuff in this thread.
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OMC is there having a ball.
But of all the posts, this one got me to LOL
in search of sanity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Oct-29-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. I hope you got decaf
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Excuses, excuses.
HamdenRice
But perhaps we are being paranoid.
No "perhaps" about it; you are paranoid. We all know idiots just like you, the type who look for reasons to become offended when, more often than not, none were intended or the things going on around you had nothing to do with you. And just like your angry DUmmie comrade in Starbucks there's all sorts of conversations going on that you may or may not agree with, and the rules say that libs are to MYOB, and let it go. Otherwise, you'll be made to look like a fool and be put in your place.
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Go in the store dressed like a damn' gangsta thug because it's all the thang, and you shouldn't be suprised when the 50-year old Korean guy comes out of the back to restock while his wife or kid stays on the register, loosens the strap on his sidearm, and watches you like a hawk. It's not your color, it's your appearance, dumbshit. Try looking like you have a respectable job instead of crack dealer, and you'll be surprised how different the treatment is.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Oct-30-08 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
40. I often say I think Mccain supporters are braindead and ignorant.
If one starts screaming at me in a public place after overhearing my conversation with someone else then it does nothing except to prove my point.
That one will leave a mark on the sensitive skins of the DUmbasses.
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There is no doubt as to who wishes that race will always be around to use as an excuse,weapon or reason for self pity.
Do away with libs of any stripe and you will do away with racisim.
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There is no doubt as to who wishes that race will always be around to use as an excuse,weapon or reason for self pity.
Do away with libs of any stripe and you will do away with racisim.
Pretty much by definition. liberalism IS racism
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I live in North Idaho. Anyone who has read the news in the last 10 years, knows this is where the Aryan Nation decided to take up residence. We kicked their ass out of here around 2000, but there are still some remnants of these idiots.
I have never, ever, heard a derogatory comment aimed at race as long as I have lived here, or even with my present occupation, and I have lived at my present abode for 24 years!
I find it hard to believe anyone in this day and age would be so uncooth as to talk about another one's race within earshot. After all, if is done, you would think a Bail Bondsman would hear it occasionally!
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Is it just me, or is it only the Obama supporters who are bringing race into this election? (That, of course, is a rhetorical question...)
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You know, these alleged (please notice the "alleged," because primitives tend to stretch) experiences of black people in a white world is something with which I can relate.
I'm white, I look absolutely normal, no outstanding characteristics, utterly average.
Excepting of course the absence of ears, which is disguised by my wearing my hair a little longer than most males do.
Nobody sees the absence of ears, but when I walk into a place, people stop to look, either for a couple of seconds, or twenty seconds. It's true I'm 6'3", but I have the carriage and demeanour of an utterly harmless person, which I am.
But it's the way I am, because I'm deaf, that seems to attract notice.
I suppose one could call it "resembling sleep-walking," but that's not quite right. It's close, but not exactly.
But anyway, whenever I walk into a place, I DO attract attention.
It's no big deal, and nothing bad has ever come out of it.
As mentioned so many other times before, the only thing about myself in real life that attracts scorn or mockery or derision or Hate is when I open my mouth, betraying a monotonal voice as flat and broad and shallow as the Platte River.
Upon hearing my voice, "fundies," "Xtians," farmers, blue-collar workers, minorities, those for whom English is a second language (or not a language at all), church-going old ladies, rednecks, NASCAR fans, truck-drivers, ranchers, Hispanics, attorneys, physicians, dentists, the ministry, manual laborers, small-town folk, inner-city folk, ex-cons, motorcycle enthusiasts, middle-class housewives, conservatives, Republicans, &c., &c., &c., within seconds discern something is "wrong," and have it all figured out, after which it's no big deal.
On the other hand--and this is based upon a whole lifetime of experience, remember--those who imagine themselves "virtuous" in their tolerance, their open-mindedess, their respect for diversity, their social sensitivity--that is to say, Democrats, liberals, primitives, and most recently, Obamaites--well, the voice seems to provoke something really Hate-filled and hostile within them, their reactions ranging from utter incredulity to attempting to spit in the face.
Not ALL Democrats or liberals, but most definitely ALL primitives and Obamaites.
Based upon a whole entire lifetime of experience, remember.
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Oh, I've got a couple of backwoodsy neighbors who have made racial comments about him. Of course there is no way in Hell they'd vote for him anyway, for entirely different (and better) reasons.
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Oh, I've got a couple of backwoodsy neighbors who have made racial comments about him. Of course there is no way in Hell they'd vote for him anyway, for entirely different (and better) reasons.
I myself have been putting it in better words and used a lot of words to say I wasn't voting for Obama and why........but a redneck, backwoodsy as you called 'em, put everything I had been sayiny very simply and very bluntly, "I ain't voting for no communist nigga from hell." :rotf:
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I myself have been putting it in better words and used a lot of words to say I wasn't voting for Obama and why........but a redneck, backwoodsy as you called 'em, put everything I had been sayiny very simply and very bluntly, "I ain't voting for no communist nigga from hell." :rotf:
Yeh, they said sumthin' like that. :lmao: They most especially didn't care for a 500% excise tax increase on ammo.
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haruka3_2000 (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-30-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
188. People screaming uncontrollably in Starbucks ruin my day
Bounce.
lawl
Even the other posters don't believe it.
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-30-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. I'm assuming you are not racist
The two groups you point out are not the two races. It's African Americans and "racist Whites."
I would assume that because you are on DU you are progressive and not a racist. I also assume you don't hang out in coffee shops and bars with racists.
So exactly how would you have been involved in such a situation? My guess is you haven't, and that's it's basically outside your realm of experience.
Yet you are offering your "non-experience" as relevant data.
Hmmm, I am not a progressive, I don't hang out with racists, and surprise, surprise, have never seen such a situation...toward a black person. :-) Now, as to someone being followed around in stores and treated like thug or shoplifter...that's happened frequently to my very white, blond son, who dresses like a thug and wears shoplifter pants. ::) Um, no surprise there...as I've pointed out to him numerous times.
Just BTW, the people I work with mostly tend to wear scrubs, and I've never seen one single instance of any of them being mistreated on the basis of race, either...except that female doctors get called "nurse" all the time, and male nurses get called "doctor." :lmao:
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Hmmm, I am not a progressive, I don't hang out with racists, and surprise, surprise, have never seen such a situation...toward a black person. :-) Now, as to someone being followed around in stores and treated like thug or shoplifter...that's happened frequently to my very white, blond son, who dresses like a thug and wears shoplifter pants. ::) Um, no surprise there...as I've pointed out to him numerous times.
Just BTW, the people I work with mostly tend to wear scrubs, and I've never seen one single instance of any of them being mistreated on the basis of race, either...except that female doctors get called "nurse" all the time, and male nurses get called "doctor." :lmao:
Reminds me of the reaction one gets when one calls an NCO "sir." "Dammit, I work for a living." Accompanied by a fair amount of cursing, generally under said NCOs breath.
(Right, Tx? ;) )
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Reminds me of the reaction one gets when one calls an NCO "sir." "Dammit, I work for a living." Accompanied by a fair amount of cursing, generally under said NCOs breath.
(Right, Tx? ;) )
I remember NCO's responding with , "I'm not a sir, I know who my parents are."
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Wait for the millions of white people rioting in solidarity when BHO loses.
Just like they did when they took to the streets to take the country back after the election was stolen and like they did to stop the war.
Wait...
Oh yeah, thats right...