The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on October 29, 2008, 11:36:17 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4329501
Oh my.
It's always good for a laugh, watching the primitives discuss religion.
raccoon (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 10:54 AM
Original message
Why does the Catholic Church consider suicide a mortal sin?
And most Xian churches are of the same opinion. Maybe other religions are too, I don't know.
I think a lot of it is ignorance about mental illness.
NC_Nurse (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. Because you can't donate to their coffers once your dead.
DemoTex (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Could you buy an indulgence for a contemplated suicide?
Maybe double-down to make it more lucrative for the church?
NC_Nurse (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. Thank you for being more cynical than me. I needed some company.
MountainLaurel (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Because only God gets to kill you?
MUAD_DIB (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Catholic Dogma: Only god can take your life.
BlueCaliDem04 (977 posts) Wed Oct-29-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. Because you can't make more babies and souls for the Church, if you did...
... which ties in with their anti-choice program as well.
Make as many babies as you can to fill those pews even if you can't fill their stomachs.
sfexpat2000 (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. Because it breaks the commandment "thou shalt not kill".
GodlessBiker (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. Yes...suicide results in one less paying customer.
Oregonian (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. Yep -- Also, they like to have control over bodies for as long as possible.
ShortnFiery (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. This "very sinful" liberal Catholic will try to explain.
If you truly follow the tenets of "pro-life" you must be against the TAKING of all human life. That includes our own mortality.
Although I do not personally believe in abortion, I also know that not everyone is of my faith. I'm strongly against Execution.
Death with dignity? Yes. I told my husband that I didn't mind dying a natural death, but please make sure that I get enough pain killers to take the edge off? Also, if he gave me just a little too much to take away my pain ... and I died - NOT A PROBLEM - with God or me.
JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
8. Here's the deal (the REAL deal)
When I was in Catholic school the nuns taught us that suicide was the one sin that was unforgivable because you cannot repent after doing it.
no_hypocrisy (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
10. Because you didn't let God make the choice.
And you can't get away with the argument that God deferred and let you decide or that God chose to make you kill yourself.
Some theologians have made the argument that suicide is a mortal sin if you do it instead of taking responsibility for another sin b/c you didn't stay on Earth to make restitution for the harm you created.
The skumbag primitive:
IanDB1 (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. If god doesn't want you to commit suicide, then the gun won't work.
GreenPartyVoter (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
12. A lot of churches have moved away from that position and have a more compassionate stance now, but there are still some that think that only God has the right to take a life.
bean fidhleir (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
14. Because they're monarchists. To them, we don't own ourselves, the king does.
And therefore when we kill ourselves, we're destroying the king's property which, to monarchists, is a Big NoNo.
Which is why even in the USA it used to be (perhaps still is in some places) a *felony* to try to commit suicide, and you could be jailed for it. Not that long ago, the family of a successful suicide could have their inheritance stripped from them by the state on the same grounds: the state stands in place of the king, and we belonged to the state/king.
rug (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
15. It is considered the sin of despair.
BTW, the Catholic Church has never stated anyone who commits suicide is in hell, including Judas.
sfexpat2000 (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. That's the right answer. I'd forgotten there's a list of these sinse and the expression isn't only a metaphor.
alittlelark (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
16. I thought it was due to slavery...
Enslaved people were killing themselves too often.
treestar (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
22. Depriving the king of a soldier
Or a breeder of soldiers. The medieval Church was all up into politics and probably just went along with it.
Same reason why dueling became illegal.
Freddie Stubbs (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
23. "Thou shall not kill"
It is the same reason that the Catholic Church is opposed to abortion and capital punishment.
easttexaslefty (548 posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
24. it no longer does
it recognizes suicide as usually an act of mental illness, therefore not a sin
easttexaslefty (548 posts) Wed Oct-29-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
26. from the Catholic answers forum
Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.
2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.
Essentially the teaching of the Catholic Church is that suicide is a sin, but since most of them are the result of mental illness, which is not the person's fault, that sin is mitigated. In essence the concept is that we do not know what goes on in the soul of one so depressed, especially in those last moments of life, so we cannot be sure, but there is reason for great hope. That's why this passage from 2nd Machabees 12:46 is so great. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
Two Americas (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
27. not so simple
If a person knows that taking a life is wrong and is able to understand that, and if a person is capable of making a rational decision about that, then the Church holds that the taking of one's own life is to be considered wrong - ergo, a "sin." That may save many lives. In any case, it would be God - or a higher moral authority as imagined or conceived: the greater good, a greater spirit - who would be passing judgment, not us.
People are free to dismiss or reject Christianity, Church teachings or the Church, but I do think that they should get it right and at least know what it is they are dismissing or rejecting. That also applies to a vast number of self-described Christians who seem to have little understanding of the faith they claim to be embracing.
Suicide is tragic and not a good idea, and human life is good and of value and to be protected. That is the foundation of the teaching of the Church on the issue.
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Wed Oct 29th 2008, 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
Is Obama a Socialist?
The core issue:
should we share the wealth or keep concentrating it?
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I love that DU adbot, that has got to be programmed by Rove. :lmao:
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...and there you have it folks....from the Church of the Truly F*cked Up.
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NC_Nurse (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. Because you can't donate to their coffers once your dead.
This is stupid beyond belief. If I lived in NC, I'd check to see if my nurse posts on DU. What about people that die of a disease or in a car accident...they can't "donate" to the coffers either but don't get an automatic ticket to hell.
Cindie
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GreenPartyVoter (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
12. A lot of churches have moved away from that position and have a more compassionate stance now, but there are still some that think that only God has the right to take a life.
Which ones? :confused:
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I'm not a very religious person, but I always wondered if suicide was a mortal sin, because it is the one sin for which you cannot ask for forgiveness.
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GreenPartyVoter (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
12. A lot of churches have moved away from that position and have a more compassionate stance now, but there are still some that think that only God has the right to take a life.
There is a stance more compassionate than thinking that only God has the right to take a human life? :mental:
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in dante's inferno, the suicides are in hell because the one defining act of their life (suicide) was their denying the gift of life from God... they were in the outer reaches of hell, but hell nonetheless. God was merciful to some, ie Dido (she killed herself cuz she was in love with aeneas, and he left)
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There is a stance more compassionate than thinking that only God has the right to take a human life? :mental:
According to DUmmies, that stance would be aborting a "mass of cells" so that it doesn't have to endure the suffering and hate and unfairness, and the woeful ignorance of the healing white light of the divine gospel and mission of teh Obamessiah that is so rampant in this evil, hateful little world.[/DUmode]
I feel dirty now.
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According to DUmmies, that stance would be aborting a "mass of cells" so that it doesn't have to endure the suffering and hate and unfairness, and the woeful ignorance of the healing white light of the divine gospel and mission of teh Obamessiah that is so rampant in this evil, hateful little world.[/DUmode]
I feel dirty now.
According to DUmmies, that mass of cells isn't human, anyway. I don't know about their offspring, but mine were all human... :mental:
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According to DUmmies, that mass of cells isn't human, anyway. I don't know about their offspring, but mine were all human... :mental:
We just mis-carried one. She made it through 21 weeks, before her Father in Heaven called her home. I was there when the sonographer showed her to us for the first time. That "mass of cells" was most definitely human.
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raccoon (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-29-08 10:54 AM
Original message
Why does the Catholic Church consider suicide a mortal sin?
They are wrong. Have at it.
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We just mis-carried one. She made it through 21 weeks, before her Father in Heaven called her home. I was there when the sonographer showed her to us for the first time. That "mass of cells" was most definitely human.
I am sorry for your loss. I have been in your shoes.
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We just mis-carried one. She made it through 21 weeks, before her Father in Heaven called her home. I was there when the sonographer showed her to us for the first time. That "mass of cells" was most definitely human.
Oh, I'm so sorry. I lost one at 12 weeks, he was perfect...fingers, toes, everything. I know your little one was most definitely a person. I pray God gives you ease from your grief. You know that she is happy with Him, and will be waiting for you.
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One would be hard pressed to find a more hateful or ignorant group on the internet......except kos...............or huffington........or...etc