The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: LC EFA on September 09, 2008, 02:59:48 AM
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Mon Sep-08-08 09:11 PM
Original message
I'm disgusted with DU calls for constructing a message machine based on the GOP
Edited on Mon Sep-08-08 09:13 PM by jpgray
On ideological grounds there's no question that it runs directly against nearly all of our common values. Dropping nuance and rational debate in favor of dissembling simplification is offensive on a basic level to any progressive; downplaying pluralism and party diversity for a monolithic message focused on illusory cultural bromides should likewise be anathema to any reasonable liberal or leftist.
But rather than make an idealistic argument against constructing a GOP message machine, let's consider it in practical terms. The GOP's dissembling talking points system has been custom fitted to their specific base; it is not at all compatible with the Democratic base. Why is this?
GOP party identification is uniquely based on cultural demagoguery. It promotes and deifies the "common man," defined as those who possess an -unlearned- loyalty to "small town values," "family," and other indefinite cultural symbols. Those who possess such loyalty are presented as having superior judgment (or "common sense"), even over those who are well-educated and speak intelligently on the issue in question. This ingratiating tactic flatters the uneducated or incurious, and allows them to identify strongly with the rich elitist leaders of their party, so long as they claim to stand for those values.
Once that flattery earns the base's trust, they are safe from reasoned, logical arguments. Hypocrisy charges don't stick. Possession of these non-existent and elastic "values" becomes the primary concern--any argument is colored by whether or not the speaker is identified with those values. This gives enormous power to symbolic pageantry over rational discourse.
This will not work with the Democratic base. We are nowhere near as monolithic as the GOP in cultural terms. Our base is primarily urban, diverse, educated and otherwise pluralistic. There is no ready simplification of our base's identity that will be seen as positive--in fact, attempts to engage in such simplification cause division and anger amongst Democrats.
To effect something similar to the GOP, we'd have to engage in exactly what they did--several decades of heavy image marketing, costing billions of dollars and requiring an enormously authoritarian system of command and control on the message level. Yet it still wouldn't be successful, because large sectors of our voting population would be turned off and disgusted by being left out, or being asked to pledge loyalty to a lie. The GOP doesn't have that problem, because the extent of their moral mission as a party is staying in office and promoting right-wing economics. Because of this, the so-called moral wedge issues they uphold shift readily with the times, following what's popular and hitting Democrats where they are weak.
We don't have it so easy. At our party's best we actually -do- seek to represent women, gays, labor, and a whole galaxy of other demographics. We can't maintain those commitments if we create an authoritarian message system based on manufacturing a simplistic cultural identity for ourselves. We'd have to develop a near-total uneducated loyalty from party supporters, and to gain such we'd have to kick out or silence too many demographics that are in desperate need of representation. We'd have to rely on feelings of intolerance, ignorance and fear. We'd have to become, well, the GOP.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3952453
I just love it when they try and use complicated language to try and sound like they're a sophisticated, well educated person with a rational and well thought out world view, but end up looking like a complete moron.
Every time that the left tries this tactic, the condescending elitism shines through like a ray of sunshine, and illuminates not only the outright mind numbing stupidity that underlies the intellectual facade, but their obvious distaste for anyone that doesn't think just like them.
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I always laugh at their qualifying 'labor' under their banner. Many of the people that fit in that column are the very type of people they hate--loud, brash, rednecks who could give a hoot for 'nuance'. :lmao: Honestly, it is this kind of elitism when it comes to light that has many labor types pulling the lever for the other guy in the privacy of the voting booth despite public presentation to the contrary(oh noes...big verbage :naughty:).
Many other in your 'party of tolerance' you snobs wouldn't touch with a 10 foot poll if faced with them in real life.
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There is no ready simplification of our base's identity that will be seen as positive--in fact, attempts to engage in such simplification cause division and anger amongst Democrats.
That is because dems don`t like the truth pointed out about their beliefs and ideals.
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All that to say, "I have a PhD in some useless field and absolutely no commonsense."
"....and we're a collection of weirdo's."
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Ah, the old "Democrats see things in 10,000 shades of gray while Republicans only see things in black and white" baloney.
Well jpgray, and anyone else who sees it the way he does, has it wrong. Are we to be surprised?
Republicans (conservatives) recognize things can be 10,000 shades of gray, it just that we also recognize that more often than not 9,995 of those shades are so insignificant as to not warrant long-term consideration, so we pick out the top shades of gray and decide from there, doing what most people would call "common sense." Democrats (liberals) see 10,000 shades of gray, but way too often they're so busy examining the various shades that they don't even recognize that the issue is black and white.
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Yoda said it best:
That is why you fail.
(http://www.todayisthatday.com/yoda.jpg)
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We are nowhere near as monolithic as the GOP in cultural terms. Our base is primarily urban, diverse, educated and otherwise pluralistic
"Diverse" is true...it's a diverse set of special interest groups that would hate each other and fall to infighting if they had to concentrate on any concrete action plan or proposal instead of vague magic words (aside from dismantling the Defense Department, they all agree about that one, though not for all the same reasons). Urban undereducated minorities (undereducated because their fellow urban minority Democrats run school systems that are incompetent, corrupt, or both) including the gangstas; legacy urban die-hard union blue collar whites who believe in the evaporating power of the unions to somehow fix economic realities that have been going against them for 40 years; overeducated and underexperienced suburban middle class kids with heads full of a university-brewed mush of propaganda without any context of life experience to offset the BS; legacy voters who should know better but "Have always voted Democrat;" Black churches who see Democrat social programs (that never actually materialize) as beneficial to their community; social service providers and those dependent on them who see the Democrats as more likely to do things that benefit them financially and/or appear to share their 'feelings;' and the pro-Choice crowd whose position (repugnant as it is to many) is really an expression of individualism over Government control (which counterpoints the divide between philosophical Conservatives of Libertarian bent vs. social Conservatives of a more religious orientation).
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We are nowhere near as monolithic as the GOP in cultural terms. Our base is primarily urban, diverse, educated and otherwise pluralistic
"Diverse" is true...it's a diverse set of special interest groups that would hate each other and fall to infighting if they had to concentrate on any concrete action plan or proposal instead of vague magic words (aside from dismantling the Defense Department, they all agree about that one, though not for all the same reasons). Urban undereducated minorities (undereducated because their fellow urban minority Democrats run school systems that are incompetent, corrupt, or both) including the gangstas; legacy urban die-hard union blue collar whites who believe in the evaporating power of the unions to somehow fix economic realities that have been going against them for 40 years; overeducated and underexperienced suburban middle class kids with heads full of a university-brewed mush of propaganda without any context of life experience to offset the BS; legacy voters who should know better but "Have always voted Democrat;" Black churches who see Democrat social programs (that never actually materialize) as beneficial to their community; social service providers and those dependent on them who see the Democrats as more likely to do things that benefit them financially and/or appear to share their 'feelings;' and the pro-Choice crowd whose position (repugnant as it is to many) is really an expression of individualism over Government control (which counterpoints the divide between philosophical Conservatives of Libertarian bent vs. social Conservatives of a more religious orientation).
:clap: :clap:
Beautiful DAT!
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I am surprised that Joe Biden is posting in the DUmp. DUmmy jpgray should open his thesaurus and learn more about the very fine words "pompous" and "drivel".
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What a whole lot of words just to say "neener, neener, neener...I'm smarter than you!" At least it's got the standard dem talking points they use when they're patting themselves on the back at their confusion of "ordinary folk". I'm glad to see we got "nuance" (which is generally used when they don't have a fricken clue or when they want to hide their true selves) out of the way early.
And then there's the complete ignorance of "small town" values, whether rich or poor, educated or no. Even pot smoking dropouts think they're smarter than the average human...whether it's because they've lost so many brain cells they don't know any better or they've perfected they're victimhood hoping to get more "stuff".
This one sentence could sum up the how the entire left sees regular people: "Those who possess such loyalty are presented as having superior judgment (or "common sense"), even over those who are well-educated and speak intelligently on the issue in question. Not once did it consider that those in flyover country are well-educated too. Or, that common sense, being informed, and being educated trumps 8 years living in a liberal echo chamber with nothing to show for it. Well, except a piece of paper that says they're experts at "peace studies", "women's studies", or "queer studies" and minimum wage job at Pizza Hut because "evil" corporations don't generally have a Queer Dept.
However, I would like to ask, said intellectual, since it appears it know SO much about who we are. If we're so stupid that "flattery earns the base's trust" then how does it explain McCain having to EARN our vote and our enthusiasm and was unable to do so until he chose his VP? Words like "hope" and "change" aren't going to work with the right. Nor are empty promises...I can "promise" the phone company I'll pay my bill but if I don't come through, eventually they're going to shut it off. For those of you trying to understand "the right", think of us as the phone company.
You say you "really do" represent (insert identity political group here). If that's true then why the hell are you acting like jealous, petty harpies every time someone mentions Sara Palin? And the ONLY reason she's greeted with such hostility is because she's pro-life. Think about that for a minute...you folks on the left are filled with rage because she doesn't believe in murdering babies (some of whom would grow up to be your key constituencies: women, gays, and minorities). You guys will chain yourself to a tree (who can't speak for itself), while EMBRACING the murder of an unborn baby (who also can't speak for itself). I call that hypocrisy.
So, let me put this in terms that won't blow your preconceived notion of us "common folk":
**** off, you arrogant prick! Amen.
Cindie
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What a whole lot of words just to say "neener, neener, neener...I'm smarter than you!" At least it's got the standard dem talking points they use when they're patting themselves on the back at their confusion of "ordinary folk". I'm glad to see we got "nuance" (which is generally used when they don't have a fricken clue or when they want to hide their true selves) out of the way early.
And then there's the complete ignorance of "small town" values, whether rich or poor, educated or no. Even pot smoking dropouts think they're smarter than the average human...whether it's because they've lost so many brain cells they don't know any better or they've perfected they're victimhood hoping to get more "stuff".
This one sentence could sum up the how the entire left sees regular people: "Those who possess such loyalty are presented as having superior judgment (or "common sense"), even over those who are well-educated and speak intelligently on the issue in question. Not once did it consider that those in flyover country are well-educated too. Or, that common sense, being informed, and being educated trumps 8 years living in a liberal echo chamber with nothing to show for it. Well, except a piece of paper that says they're experts at "peace studies", "women's studies", or "queer studies" and minimum wage job at Pizza Hut because "evil" corporations don't generally have a Queer Dept.
However, I would like to ask, said intellectual, since it appears it know SO much about who we are. If we're so stupid that "flattery earns the base's trust" then how does it explain McCain having to EARN our vote and our enthusiasm and was unable to do so until he chose his VP? Words like "hope" and "change" aren't going to work with the right. Nor are empty promises...I can "promise" the phone company I'll pay my bill but if I don't come through, eventually they're going to shut it off. For those of you trying to understand "the right", think of us as the phone company.
You say you "really do" represent (insert identity political group here). If that's true then why the hell are you acting like jealous, petty harpies every time someone mentions Sara Palin? And the ONLY reason she's greeted with such hostility is because she's pro-life. Think about that for a minute...you folks on the left are filled with rage because she doesn't believe in murdering babies (some of whom would grow up to be your key constituencies: women, gays, and minorities). You guys will chain yourself to a tree (who can't speak for itself), while EMBRACING the murder of an unborn baby (who also can't speak for itself). I call that hypocrisy.
So, let me put this in terms that won't blow your preconceived notion of us "common folk":
**** off, you arrogant prick! Amen.
Cindie
hi5 :clap:
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What a whole lot of words just to say "neener, neener, neener...I'm smarter than you!" At least it's got the standard dem talking points they use when they're patting themselves on the back at their confusion of "ordinary folk". I'm glad to see we got "nuance" (which is generally used when they don't have a fricken clue or when they want to hide their true selves) out of the way early.
And then there's the complete ignorance of "small town" values, whether rich or poor, educated or no. Even pot smoking dropouts think they're smarter than the average human...whether it's because they've lost so many brain cells they don't know any better or they've perfected they're victimhood hoping to get more "stuff".
This one sentence could sum up the how the entire left sees regular people: "Those who possess such loyalty are presented as having superior judgment (or "common sense"), even over those who are well-educated and speak intelligently on the issue in question. Not once did it consider that those in flyover country are well-educated too. Or, that common sense, being informed, and being educated trumps 8 years living in a liberal echo chamber with nothing to show for it. Well, except a piece of paper that says they're experts at "peace studies", "women's studies", or "queer studies" and minimum wage job at Pizza Hut because "evil" corporations don't generally have a Queer Dept.
However, I would like to ask, said intellectual, since it appears it know SO much about who we are. If we're so stupid that "flattery earns the base's trust" then how does it explain McCain having to EARN our vote and our enthusiasm and was unable to do so until he chose his VP? Words like "hope" and "change" aren't going to work with the right. Nor are empty promises...I can "promise" the phone company I'll pay my bill but if I don't come through, eventually they're going to shut it off. For those of you trying to understand "the right", think of us as the phone company.
You say you "really do" represent (insert identity political group here). If that's true then why the hell are you acting like jealous, petty harpies every time someone mentions Sara Palin? And the ONLY reason she's greeted with such hostility is because she's pro-life. Think about that for a minute...you folks on the left are filled with rage because she doesn't believe in murdering babies (some of whom would grow up to be your key constituencies: women, gays, and minorities). You guys will chain yourself to a tree (who can't speak for itself), while EMBRACING the murder of an unborn baby (who also can't speak for itself). I call that hypocrisy.
So, let me put this in terms that won't blow your preconceived notion of us "common folk":
**** off, you arrogant prick! Amen.
Cindie
hi5 :clap:
Ditto!
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H5 You're always on the money,Cindie!
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If I weren't a woman I would so stalk Cindie.
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If I weren't a woman I would so stalk Cindie.
Like that's ever stopped you
HI5 Cindie