The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dutch508 on July 01, 2021, 08:45:25 AM
-
Star Member StarfishSaver (16,856 posts)
It's a BFD that Trump Org and not Trump himself is getting indicted today
Lots of folk are disappointed that today's indictment is going after the Trump business and not Trump personally, believing that this is somehow letting Trump off the hook. But that's not the case. And, in fact, this is an even bigger deal than targeting Trump himself right now, for a couple of reasons.
First, the Trump Org IS Trump. There is no light nor air between him and his business. As some observers have pointed out over the years, the Trump companies aren't some large conglomerates with tentacles everywhere and complex layers of management and staff. This is a pretty rinky dink operation consisting of just a handful of people - Trump, his grifter kids and a few hangers on. They operate out of offices on one floor of Trump tower that look more like the back of store than an international business concern, people shouting at each other down the hall and wandering in and out of each other's offices.
Going after Trump companies IS going after Trump.
Moreover, given how raggedy this organization seems to operate, it's unlikely that they took the correct steps to insulate Trump and his team from liability for their actions done in the name of the company. it probably won't be long before the prosecutors and court "pierce the corporate veil" that would normally protect individual corporate owners from personal liability.
In addition, this case is going to cause as much trouble, angst, and suck up as much time and money as any prosecution against him personally - probably more, because he won't be able to get away with the games he plays when fighting personal battles.
Also, Trump's entire ego and brand are wrapped up in his business. He's gotten very good at making any attempts to go after him personally as a witchhunt, done for political purposes and because he's such a untouchably brilliant businessman, that's all they've got, supposedly. This indictment is going to put a lie to all of that. He's not only going to be publicly exposed as a fraud (indeed, the case apparently is based on fraud), but the world will see what a hot mess his business actually is.
AND the best part is that this isn't over. While he's fighting to protect his company, prosecutors are still laying the groundwork to prosecute him individually. And the mess they expose in the corporate case will only make it harder for him. So he's got his hands completely full and when they come after Trump personally, he'll have an even bigger fight on his hands.
This is going to be good ...
Bucky (50,091 posts)
1. Thanks
Good perspective. I figured this was comparable to a RICO case, where they're gradually working at the chain of command.
You make it sound like it's not that tall a pyramid to climb
Star Member StarfishSaver (16,856 posts)
2. I think it's a tall pyramid, but it sounds like they're doing it right and in the right order
Star Member TheBlackAdder (20,988 posts)
29. It also exposes Trump's crimes without a direct assault. This will slowly shape MAGA cult's minds.
As they see more and more criming, they will start to loose hope and might accept direct criminal charges later.
They will see Trump for the scammer he is, and how he's built a system to dodge taxes and funnel money.
Star Member Ilsa (58,233 posts)
5. I advise patience for everyone.
I don't think trump will drop dead before the worst hits him, including Malignia divorcing him to preserve her nest egg.
Star Member gab13by13 (3,845 posts)
8. Everything is going according to plan.
When Cy Vance brought Pomerantz on the team I smiled a little. The main reason why it is critical to go after the organization first is because they are also going after Weisselberg first, and IMO it is crucial to get him to flip, once he does, MF45 is toast.
Yes MF45 ran his organization like a mom and pop pizza parlor but MF45 is not stupid, many of his projects were in his kids' names giving him protection. If Weisselberg's attorney was provided by MF45 then Weisselberg is in a world of hurt because that attorney will advice Weisselberg to do whatever is in MF45's best interests.
MF45 is a mob boss, he is not stupid, he insulated himself from guilt, with that said, if he loses his consigliere, he is done.
:whatever:
Johnny2X2X (10,946 posts)
11. Let's see what they have
I still think it's more likely that he is never charged in relation to this. They're going to stall this for years.
And Trump will never do a day in jail, of that I am sure of.
johnthewoodworker (486 posts)
21. I truly don't believe any legal stuff is impactful until a Republican/Nazi is jailed.
Otherwise this is just more legal bravado with no result.
Star Member StarfishSaver (16,856 posts)
27. What you call "legal bravado without result"
is the predicate necessary for anyone to go to jail. Without it, The result you're seeking is impossible.
So while you may dismiss this as mere "legal bravado, I call it "getting the job done."
:yawn:
-
:rotf: Once again, one of DUpipos' Yuge Gotcha-Trumps has fizzled. :rotf:
:rotf: And now Star Racist StarfishSaver is trying to rally DU-troops by Himalayanizing a mole hill that might also turn into a fizzle. :rotf:
-
Star Member StarfishSaver (16,856 posts)
27. What you call "legal bravado without result"
is the predicate necessary for anyone to go to jail. Without it, The result you're seeking is impossible.
So while you may dismiss this as mere "legal bravado, I call it "getting the job done."
You would never know about this predicate from reading DU's megalomaniacal power fantasies of sending their political opponents to prison.
-
Someone who doesn't do taxes looking-for 'intent to deceive' in someone who does do taxes.
-
Someone who doesn't do taxes looking-for 'intent to deceive' in someone who does do taxes.
Perhaps it is time for Uncle Ralphie to explain the commercial real estate business in depth. Especially on how loans are granted and guaranteed to companies. Worked in that industry for a number of years and provided detailed information to lenders on behalf of my firm.
The media libs/DUmmies seem to have this weird notion that there is lots of RUSSIAN money involved, which is totally laughable. Always find it comical to hear idiots who have never had a job in a private industry and basically only file their taxes via a 1040EZ to lecture those of us trained in tax laws.
Since this is a holiday weekend, might have to post a separate thread regarding this issue. USA4ME and others may also have further input since I know he has some real-estate and/or lending background.
-
Perhaps it is time for Uncle Ralphie to explain the commercial real estate business in depth. Especially on how loans are granted and guaranteed to companies. Worked in that industry for a number of years and provided detailed information to lenders on behalf of my firm.
The media libs/DUmmies seem to have this weird notion that there is lots of RUSSIAN money involved, which is totally laughable. Always find it comical to hear idiots who have never had a job in a private industry and basically only file their taxes via a 1040EZ to lecture those of us trained in tax laws.
Since this is a holiday weekend, might have to post a separate thread regarding this issue. USA4ME and others may also have further input since I know he has some real-estate and/or lending background.
I have tried, unsuccessfully, to explain to people on the left that billionaires do not care about money per se. Gates, Musk, Zuckerberg, TRUMP and others use money to KEEP SCORE and to do interesting things (like taking over the world, going to the moon or becoming POTUS).
The 1040 filed by the Trump Organization is probably hundreds of pages long and has 10,000 pages of supporting documentation. They think they can point to a few lines in one of those pages and say "AH HA - GOTCHA!"
The Presidency is not a road for a billionaire to get rich. It is the road for middle class people like the clinton crime family and groper xiden to become millionaires and low-end millionaires like obozo to become upper-end millionaires.
-
And the da can indite a ham sandwich or a slice of pepperoni pizza with extra cheese and the results will be the same. :thatsright: :lmao: :loser:
It will all come out in the palmer report and on the ralphie madcow show.
-
This is the latest example of self-flagellation from the Blue Anon DUmp monkeys. When Cy Vance announced no charges against Trump the other day it came and went without much notice. Now these charges are against the Trump Corp and its CFO for tax evasion for perks. The truly sad thing is after a nearly 3 year investigation that's all they have. According to what I've read this usually results in a fine at most. So good luck to the DUmp monkeys on your latest dream scenario. As for me I plan to sit back and enjoy the show when it inevitably fails. :popcorn: :-)
-
All I see is that the guy got out of court on his own recognizance in far less than 24 business hours. Charlie, Lucy, football, and so on.
-
Going after Trump companies IS going after Trump.
I take it that DUmmy Starfish Saver has no understanding of the concept of a corporation.
-
Merry Fitzmas!!
It’s a flimsy case saying that some corporate officers received benefits of which they did not pay the proper taxes. So first up, they have to prove these benefits were, in fact, taxable income, and then that they intentionally didn’t pay taxes on them. Not an easy case to make at all since tax law is complicated and often open to interpretation of the tax preparer. Rest assured, Trump had top tax attorneys and accounting firms who were preparing the corporate taxes and they can explain exactly what they did and why they did it using the tax law.
Typically if these things come to loggerheads, the IRS and the Corp reaches some agreement, if anything is to be paid it’s less that what the IRS would have wanted, the fine is paid, and that’s it. No reason for the CEO to be concerned as he has no criminal record and, if anything is even found, it will be considered an error and settled. Chances are the charges won’t stick.
This is all to keep Trump under suspicion hoping his influence will fain. They still believe they can separate Trump from those who support him.
(That’s why you get posts like this — “It also exposes Trump's crimes without a direct assault. This will slowly shape MAGA cult's minds. As they see more and more criming, they will start to loose hope and might accept direct criminal charges later. They will see Trump for the scammer he is, and how he's built a system to dodge taxes and funnel money.)
It’s as if they don’t realize that attacking him only makes more people less trusting of gov’t.
.
-
Link
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15580658
.
-
Merry Fitzmas!!
It’s a flimsy case saying that some corporate officers received benefits of which they did not pay the proper taxes. So first up, they have to prove these benefits were, in fact, taxable income, and then that they intentionally didn’t pay taxes on them. Not an easy case to make at all since tax law is complicated and often open to interpretation of the tax preparer. Rest assured, Trump had top tax attorneys and accounting firms who were preparing the corporate taxes and they can explain exactly what they did and why they did it using the tax law.
Typically if these things come to loggerheads, the IRS and the Corp reaches some agreement, if anything is to be paid it’s less that what the IRS would have wanted, the fine is paid, and that’s it. No reason for the CEO to be concerned as he has no criminal record and, if anything is even found, it will be considered an error and settled. Chances are the charges won’t stick.
This is all to keep Trump under suspicion hoping his influence will fain. They still believe they can separate Trump from those who support him.
(That’s why you get posts like this — “It also exposes Trump's crimes without a direct assault. This will slowly shape MAGA cult's minds. As they see more and more criming, they will start to loose hope and might accept direct criminal charges later. They will see Trump for the scammer he is, and how he's built a system to dodge taxes and funnel money.)
It’s as if they don’t realize that attacking him only makes more people less trusting of gov’t.
.
Thanks, sir.
Knew you would help out on this issue, and will opine further as we get closer to the weekend.
According to the clearly liberal Washington Post (requires a subscription so no link, but my property taxes grant me the ability to read their madness):
New York prosecutors officially charged former president Donald Trump’s business with defrauding the government, after securing indictments on 15 counts from a grand jury. Trump’s chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, was charged with filing false tax returns in addition to the same counts the company was charged with.
“To put it bluntly, this was a sweeping and audacious illegal payment scheme,” said Carey Dunne, a prosecutor with the Manhattan District Attorney’s office, at Weisselberg’s arraignment hearing on Thursday. “It’s not about politics.”
What Trump’s company was charged with: Trump’s business, including the Trump Organization and the Trump Payroll Corp., was charged with 11 crimes, including a scheme to defraud, conspiracy, grand larceny, three counts of criminal tax fraud in the first degree and one count of criminal tax fraud in the fourth degree, and four counts of falsifying business records.
What Trump’s chief financial officer was charged with: Weisselberg was charged in all 11 counts that applied to the Trump Organization, plus four additional counts of offering a false instrument for filing, which essentially means prosecutors say he lied on his taxes. They say Weisselberg avoided paying more than $130,000 in taxes he should have paid.
.......
In other terms, this is a parking ticket. However the Kleenex and Jergens libs think that this has toast and Trump is legs.
-
:nelson:
-
The best parts about this are not only the primitives (and the left in general) getting their hopes up in anticipation, but there’s all sorts of writers at their favorite LW publications who write articles to reinforce their foolishness. We get to watch the unsupported rise up AND the inevitable crash back to reality. And even better, they do it to themselves.
They constantly complain about how we conservatives want to “own the liberals”. But for heaven’s sake, they make it so easy to do that you can’t help but find it enjoyable.
.