The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dutch508 on June 16, 2021, 08:29:25 AM
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Star Member Silent3 (10,980 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215532211
What I don't get is why a lab leak or not makes that big a difference to anyone
Yes, leak or no leak does matter for how much culpability China has for the COVID-19 pandemic.
But once the disease was spreading, no matter how it got started, every country still bears responsibility for how well it handled the disease, and how well they are handling it now.
For the Trump supporters really into the lab leak idea, it certainly wouldn't help absolve Trump for his abject failure in dealing with COVID once it was here, no matter where COVID came from. Well, okay, in their twisted MAGA minds a Chinese lab leak might absolve Trump, but days ending in "y" also absolve Trump of any wrong-doing for them, so what's the difference other than adding one more item to their already-long litany of insane talking points?
With or without lab leaks, there will be new pandemics in the future, so it's not like, if we find out there really was a lab leak, we can believe we're making ourselves safe by doing nothing more than trying to prevent future lab leaks.
:thatsright:
Star Member dchill (27,394 posts)
2. A distraction from real crimes.
meadowlander (3,123 posts)
19. Off-the-books biological weapons research isn't a 'real crime'?
I don't know what happened but there are certainly non-fanciful scenarios that very much would be crimes that the international community should investigate and hold China accountable for if they are responsible.
We shouldn't let our rejection of Trump and his excuses lead us to be naive about other adversaries. This was the whole planet going on pause for 18 months, 3.8 million deaths and counting, lifelong disability for who knows how many millions more, massive economic and environmental damage. If there is actual evidence that people are responsible for that, they should be held to account for their actions and their omissions.
If the outbreak could have been contained in Wuhan and spread due to ass-covering and smoke-blowing by officials, that should also be investigated.
:whatever:
Star Member JI7 (84,537 posts)
3. If anything it makes Trump's actions far worse . Because it wasn't just like a flu virus as they
kept saying.
And other than calling it the China virus he didn't do anything to seriously find out what was going on. Biden actually is trying to look into it .
And this doesn't even include all the things before it where he disbanded the team dealing with this and removed people in China that could have had info earlier on.
:thatsright: :thatsright: :thatsright: :thatsright: :thatsright: :thatsright: :thatsright: :thatsright: :thatsright: :thatsright:
Star Member The Magistrate (90,812 posts)
5. It Certainly Does Not Reduce Dear Leader's Culpability, Sir
It doesn't matter how it began, Dear Leader ****ed it up.
Even if it was deliberately set loose as a weapon, Dear Leader still ****ed it up.
Whether naturally arisen, leaked from a lab, or loosed upon the world on purpose, this combed-over piece of shit ****ed it up to a fare-thee-well.
:bird:
Caliman73 (7,968 posts)
26. There needs to be an investigation into what happened first.
If it was a natural virus, then the practices that lead to it's transmission to humans needs to be studied to prevent future outbreaks. What repercussions should China face for a natural virus developing and spreading in an interconnected world with nearly instantaneous travel? If it was a lab accident where viruses were being studied and then human error cause the virus to be spread, again, what repercussions should China face? Certainly, there should be international oversight into their laboratory practices. If it was a weapon that was deliberately released, well then that would be an act of war and likely the result and repercussions of that, would be worse than the death toll from the pandemic,
Many countries managed the spread effectively and suffered relatively little damage. The countries that suffered significant damage did so, not because of how and where the virus came from and came into contact and transmission to humans. They did so because of weak and ineffective leadership. England = Dumbass Borris Johnson who downplayed the virus and wanted to tough it out. Brazil = Wannabe dictator and Trump sycophant Bolsonaro who also tried to out macho a virus. United States = Idiot in chief Trump, the king of all failsons and **** ups.
Sure, there should be consequences to China for its failures in notifying people, but if Trump had not taken the pandemic response teams and our best scientist out of China, we would have had much clearer early warning.
:mental:
Star Member SoCalDavidS (3,688 posts)
9. Because They Kept It Covered Up And Then Denied It
If they had been more forthcoming about the dire situation earlier, it may have helped the world.
But we had a MORON "leading" us, so it probably wouldn't have made a difference, and Drumpf would have called it a hoax a little bit earlier.
:whatever:
speak easy (3,805 posts)
24. "it may have helped the world"
and then again it may not. Given what we now know about the incubation period and asymptomatic spread, it is (far) more likely that ithis virus could not have been contained.
We can't go back and do a double blind. The conjecture seems pointless.
Star Member womanofthehills (5,671 posts)
12. A lab leak would be a really big deal
It might make nations sign an agreement not to do gain of function research. It might set up higher standards for these labs. Many say the Wujan Lab was doing Bio Lab 4 research in a Bio 2 lab. Our own labs have had escapes and most scientists believe accidents in labs will always happen because someone can always get jabbed by a needle, drop a vial, etc. So maybe enhancing viruses needs to stop. Obama put a temp stop to it in our labs in 2014 and we need to look at that worldwide.
Blue_playwright (1,437 posts)
13. A customer of mine...
Said to me that it isn’t a leak because it was intentional. Not just that but that viruses don’t mutate and each new strain is another being created and released by China.
Then there’s some dude she follows that does EMP pulse things to people who have had the vaccine and they apparently shit out all the nanoprobes that Gates, Bezos and Seven-of-Nine put in the vaccine.
I shit you not.
:whatever:
Star Member SergeStorms (11,432 posts)
16. IQ45 wants reparations from "Chy-na".
At least that's what he said in one of his missives "From the Desk of Loser Sweat-balls", his now defunct blog or whatever the hell it was.
Not that one word he utters makes a bit of difference.
:whatever:
Star Member dawg day (7,709 posts)
22. There was a report that blood samples from Fall 2019
Have tested positive for covid, indicating I guess that it was in the US then. Some of the people remember being sick when the blood was drawn. The article didn't have much info, like where these people were and if they'd been in China.
Not sure what it means.
:whatever:
Star Member smirkymonkey (59,589 posts)
27. Because they need a big distraction to take the attention away from the fact
that President Fat **** (sorry, people who have a problem with fat shaming, but he is really just a Fat ****) completely botched the response to the arrival of the virus in the US.
It's nothing more than diversion. He majorly screwed up this nation's response to the worst pandemic in a century and that is entirely on him. Where it came from is one thing, but that doesn't absolve him of his complete mishandling of this from the start.
No, this is really about his absolute, total world-class, major ****-up of a lifetime. He had numerous opportunities to stem the spread of this virus and never did anything but encourage dangerous behavior and irresponsible practices.
:mental:
Star Member doc03 (27,871 posts)
33. It just another distraction from how badly The
Loser handled the COVID.
Star Member LetMyPeopleVote (95,556 posts)
38. Other people are trying to figure out how the lab leak story help TFG
:whatever:
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I put "Trump's botched COVID response" on the same level as "Trump's innumerable crimes". Apparently, both are so heinous that DUers can't actually find the words to properly characterize what crimes he committed, or what he botched in the COVID response.
And please, do go on about how other countries responded so much better. When it comes to avoiding serious consequences from COVID, it appears the keys are 1) be an island, and 2) have a young population. There are a number of developed countries who either fared worse or didn't fare much better than the U.S. in terms of deaths per capita, recent cases, recent deaths, etc.
Perhaps a stupid question, but where is the self-awareness in these DU discussions? What would the U.S.' COVID statistics look like if not for the incompetent responses of Cuomo and others who emulated him?
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Here's a simple explanation, DUmmies:
If China can create this super virus to kill millions, wouldn't you logically think it might be a good idea to investigate and perhaps prevent it from EVER happening again?
Then again, liberals aren't much for logic or facts, just feelings and emoting.
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Star Member Silent3 (10,980 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215532211
What I don't get is why a lab leak or not makes that big a difference to anyone
Yes, leak or no leak does matter for how much culpability China has for the COVID-19 pandemic.
china has full culpability if it was a lab leak whether intentional or accidental. If intentional it was an act of war. In accidental they are guilty of gross negligence and should be held accountable for the loss of life and trashing the global economy and restricted from engaging in further biological "research" again. Add in how china restricted travel from whuhan to other parts of china after their big "oops" when they allowed international travel afterwards and the big red arrow of blame points right back at china, not the rest of the world countries who were victims of china's massive **** up.
Look at it this way DUmmies. Let's say that Canada was installing a nuclear reactor near the US/Canadian border and thru their incompetence caused a disaster that makes Chernobyl look like a walk in the park. The radioactive cloud drifts south and causes massive amounts of radiation sickness and death in the United States and trashes much of the U.S. agricultural landscape and kills most of all business . Oh, and slo joe is POTUS when this happens. Are you going to try to pin the blame for all U.S. deaths on slo joe because he was (allegedly) in charge when the disaster started or will you blame Canada for their gross negligence and incompetence in creating the disaster?
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So China can just leak away and face no economic consequences? ::)
Other countries don't need to learn about how to respond to China's carelessness and deception? ::)
Other countries' health agencies and NGOs should just keep working with China's leaky virology labs as if nothing happened? ::)
... every country still bears responsibility for how well it handled the disease, and how well they are handling it now.
So lets look at Worldometer is compare per capita deaths, https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries , especially with EU countries that have healthcare systems that can collect data OK. Yeahhhhhh, DUpipo won't like what they see.
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I know someone who traveled to Texas in December 2019. After she got home, she came down with a horrible rash. They (doctors) now believe it was a COVID rash, which means that COVID was here--and spreading--for weeks before the WHO and China even acknowledged that there was human-to-human transmission. Once it was here, there was nothing that could have been done to prevent what happened.
Oh, and if Trump was supposed to be able to keep COVID from ever coming here in the first place, then why isn't Joementia keeping the variants out. Seems that's all on him.
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Trump was going to keep Covid out? Should have mentioned that to Pelousy and Co.
Right, DUmmies?
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I’ve not heard of Covid causing a rash - I didn’t have a rash - but there are studies of blood drawn during December 2019 and January 2020 blood drives that found SARS-CoV-2 virus antibodies in blood samples. So the virus was circulating in the US in December, and possibly late November.
For context, it was leaked to the world on December 31, 2019 that Wuhan was having a disease outbreak. For DU-onlurkers who don’t want to connect those dots, that means the SARS-CoV-2 was circulating is the US before Trump or anyone else outside of nChina knew it existed.
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I can't let this go: :-)
England = Dumbass Borris Johnson who downplayed the virus and wanted to tough it out.
That dumbass looked like a member of Mensa next to Biden:
Johnson: *Introduces Indian prime minister, South African president, and South Korean president*.
Biden: "...And the president of South Africa."
Johnson: "And, and, and the president of South Africa, as I said early on."
Biden: "Oh, he did?"
Johnson: "I did... I certainly did."
*Laughter from people at table.*
Macron: "You get a mention twice, Cyril."
...
Yeah, that's a thing that happened.
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I can't let this go: :-)
That dumbass looked like a member of Mensa next to Biden:
...
Yeah, that's a thing that happened.
but orange man bad...
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I put "Trump's botched COVID response" on the same level as "Trump's innumerable crimes". Apparently, both are so heinous that DUers can't actually find the words to properly characterize what crimes he committed, or what he botched in the COVID response.
And please, do go on about how other countries responded so much better. When it comes to avoiding serious consequences from COVID, it appears the keys are 1) be an island, and 2) have a young population. There are a number of developed countries who either fared worse or didn't fare much better than the U.S. in terms of deaths per capita, recent cases, recent deaths, etc.
Perhaps a stupid question, but where is the self-awareness in these DU discussions? What would the U.S.' COVID statistics look like if not for the incompetent responses of Cuomo and others who emulated him?
Being a dictatorial fascist regime that could subject your borders to complete shutdown and order your people to quarantine no matter what (IOW the dummy wet dream) seems to have helped a good bit as well.
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Silent3
What I don't get is why a lab leak or not makes that big a difference to anyone
Then why did the media go to great lengths to say it was a conspiracy theory if it doesn't make a big difference?
Ignoring/Rewriting the past isn't a good idea, primitives. Nor is always try to blame conservatives and never blaming yourselves. In fact, if you want to know why things generally go wrong, start with the political left and then just stay there. You'll find all the guilt lives among you, and is you.
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