The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: CactusCarlos on August 24, 2008, 12:18:54 PM
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,409262,00.html
Nebraska's new safe-haven law allowing parents to abandon unwanted children at hospitals with no questions asked is unique in a significant way: It goes beyond babies and potentially permits the abandonment of anyone under 19.
While lawmakers may not have intended it, the month-old law raises the possibility that frustrated parents could drop off misbehaving teens or even severely disabled older children with impunity.
"Whether the kid is disabled or unruly or just being a hormonal teenager, the state is saying: 'Hey, we have a really easy option for you,"' said Adam Pertman, executive director of a New York adoption institute and a frequent critic of safe-haven laws.
Nebraska's approach is surprising because it is the last state in the nation to adopt a safe-haven law.
But instead of following the lead of other states, which focus on the abandonment of newborns, lawmakers here wanted to extend the protection to all minors. And in Nebraska, that goes all the way up to age 19.
"All children deserve our protection," said Sen. Tom White, who helped broaden the measure. "If we save one child from being abused, it's well, well worth it."
White said it doesn't matter if that child is an infant or three years old or in the care of a parent or baby sitter. As for what constitutes a minor, he refers to common law, which interprets it to be anyone under age 14.
State Sen. Arnie Stuthman, who introduced the original bill dealing only with infants, agreed to the compromise after the bill became stalled in debate.
"The main interest I have is that it gives the mother or a parent another option of what to do with a child before they do something drastic," he said.
The measure, which took effect July 18, does not absolve people of possible criminal charges -- for example, if a child had been beaten.
And since the law does not specify, it technically allows anyone, not just a parent, to legally surrender custody. Most other states narrowly define the role of the person surrendering the child.
Some hospitals have fielded questions from the public about the law, but no children have been dropped off.
"I hope there never is one," Stuthman said.
Pertman, who directs the New York-based Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, said his research going back several years shows safe-haven laws are not accomplishing what they intended. Women who are distressed enough to want to abandon their children are not the ones reading billboards or getting the message about these laws, he said.
Pertman finds Nebraska's law particularly alarming because it is not focused on infants and parents.
Casting such a wide net "circumvents every rational practice in child welfare that I'm aware of," he said. "That's as nicely as I can put it."
California, for example, allows parents to legally abandon a child at a hospital or other designated safe zones within 72 hours of birth.
The brevity of the law could trigger litigation over its meaning, said Jonathan Turley, a George Washington University law professor.
"This law is obviously written in almost skeletal form," he said. "Drafters will sometimes try to say as little as possible so they don't create ambiguity, but drafters here succeeded in writing the law in such a limited fashion that the entire provision is ambiguous."
Nebraska lawmakers acknowledge the courts will have to sort out the details, and they have said they are open to revisiting the legislation if necessary.
The Nebraska Hospital Association has been working to help its 85 member hospitals statewide establish procedures for dealing with abandonment cases.
Sen. Ernie Chambers, who voted against the law, said he would prefer to address the reasons that parents abandon their children rather than offer them safe haven.
"I don't think such laws are wise," he said.
Kathy Bigsby Moore, executive director of the child advocacy group Voices for Children in Nebraska, said she also worries how the law might affect adoption rates.
"The sad thing is we have plenty of other mechanisms for people to use," she said. "I'm not sure the safe-haven law is really going to help in a majority of cases."
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The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again.
Why is it most politicians barely have enough brainpower to motor their extremities, much less propose and pass insane bills like this?
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Sure, they write this law 6 years after I leave!!!! :argh: Do you know how much more money I'd have today if I'd given up all these kids when they hit their "eat Mom out of house and home" age?!?!?!?!? :maddernhell:
Seriously, it does make me wonder about the legislature. Do they read their own laws? Don't they know that parents have always been able to sign away their kids if they chose? To extend that "right" to just anybody is totally crazy. Imagine going to your sitter after work just to find out that she got tired of your kid that day and dropped him off at some hospital...good luck getting him back! :thatsright: :mental:
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Oh my.
I didn't know about this.
freedumb2003 is right, as usual; unintended consequences.
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Sure, they write this law 6 years after I leave!!!! :argh: Do you know how much more money I'd have today if I'd given up all these kids when they hit their "eat Mom out of house and home" age?!?!?!?!? :maddernhell:
Seriously, it does make me wonder about the legislature. Do they read their own laws? Don't they know that parents have always been able to sign away their kids if they chose? To extend that "right" to just anybody is totally crazy. Imagine going to your sitter after work just to find out that she got tired of your kid that day and dropped him off at some hospital...good luck getting him back! :thatsright: :mental:
MrsSmith,
You are looking at the situation all wrong. You keep the kinders around as long as possible. You see chid labor laws don't apply to your own children :evillaugh:
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At 19, they can drive themselves to the hospital and abandon themselves.
At 19, my wife could have driven me to the hospital. Would that have been a quickie divorce?
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If the law had been in effect and I'd lived there when my oldest son hit about 11, this would have been veeeeerrrrrry tempting.....
:evillaugh:
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I don't understand how lawmakers could be this stupid. Other states have the same type of laws, did they not feel the need to at least research what other states did before they wrote one up?
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I don't understand how lawmakers could be this stupid. Other states have the same type of laws, did they not feel the need to at least research what other states did before they wrote one up?
It's one of our singular idiosyncrasies that makes it delightful to be a Nebraskan.
I'm assuming you already know that of the 50 states, Nebraska is the only one where the county attorney determines the cause of death when someone dies.
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I don't understand how lawmakers could be this stupid. Other states have the same type of laws, did they not feel the need to at least research what other states did before they wrote one up?
It's one of our singular idiosyncrasies that makes it delightful to be a Nebraskan.
I'm assuming you already know that of the 50 states, Nebraska is the only one where the county attorney determines the cause of death when someone dies.
Oh, that I did not know Frank. Very silly.
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Oh, that I did not know Frank. Very silly.
It's a very old law, and based upon ancient English common law.
Once in a while somebody gets up in a dander and wants to change it, but it probably won't be changed.
Usually what happens is that a physician will tell the county attorney, for example, "He died of a heart attack," and the county attorney, not having medical expertise, takes his word for it.
But the county attorney is the final word.
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Investigative Report: No state but Nebraska makes attorneys decide how people died
BY KARYN SPENCER
WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER
Lincoln County Attorney Jeff Meyer summarizes his medical knowledge in one sentence. "Apply direct pressure and scream for help," he said. As county attorney, he is also the county coroner, determining how people died if they weren't under a doctor's care. If you die at home alone in Nebraska, a lawyer will decide what killed you.
Nebraska is the only state that puts prosecutors, across the board, in charge of death investigations - whether it's homicide or pneumonia.
The responsibility, which many states assign to doctors, baffles and irritates many county attorneys.
"Why is some dumb ass like me without medical training out here deciding the cause of death?" said Meyer, who left office last month.
While prime-time TV has given America an armchair education in forensics, Nebraska clings to a 91-year-old, haphazard law requiring county attorneys to be the coroner.
Those lawyers handle about 3,000 deaths a year, roughly 20 percent of the state's deaths.
"It's a system set up to fail," said Glenn Clark, county attorney in three central Nebraska counties.
And it does fail.
Relatives, mortuary workers and insurance agents have uncovered homicides initially overlooked by local cops and coroners.
Bodies have been exhumed when the original investigations were questioned.
How many mistakes have been missed?
"I think it'd scare the hell out of you," Nebraska State Patrol investigator Doug Johnson said.
Nebraska law sets hardly any standards for death investigations. Each county attorney handles coroner cases pretty much however he or she wants.
Giving the coroner role to county attorneys, who have no medical background and plenty of other duties, makes no sense, said Mary Fran Ernst, who coordinates a national death-investigation training program in St. Louis.
"It's the only state in the nation," she said. "That ought to give you some clue."
Unlike other states, Nebraska almost never requires autopsies, which can pinpoint the cause of death and uncover hidden crimes.
With few state standards, death investigations vary from county to county.
A few coroners bring a doctor on every call. Others do little beyond calling the mortician.
It's up to them.
"The demand for justice is border to border," said Bill Howland, a former county attorney and former assistant state attorney general. "No longer do we expect a second-class system. Everybody wants justice if their kid has been murdered."
Tell me what qualifies you to be coroner, a friend once asked Clay County Attorney Ted Griess.
Griess shrugged.
Nothing, he responded.
"There's no classes in law school," Griess said. "I'm an ag econ grad. There's not much science in ag econ."
When Nebraska was founded, anyone could run to be elected county coroner - an English law initially copied in America.
Back then, Nebraska coroners investigated deaths "by unlawful means" by holding an inquest, a trial-like proceeding with witnesses, jurors and the power to arrest people for murder.
The Legislature shifted the duties to county attorneys and made inquests optional starting in 1917.
The change gave the attorneys sole authority to decide what killed a person.
Legislative records don't detail the reason for the change, but the law specifies that county attorneys cannot charge extra for coroner calls. "More efficient service may be rendered at less cost," the State Supreme Court later said.
In the 1940s, other states began switching to a medical examiner system, using a government pathologist for autopsies, investigations or other duties.
The Nebraska Legislature considered that option in 1979.
"This is a good state to commit a murder in," forensic anthropologist Richard McWilliams told a legislative committee that year.
"I believe that I could murder anybody you suggested that I murder, and you would never be able to prove that it was a murder."
continued: http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10264576
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That's the way we are, Demonic Underwear, sir.
It's one of the most touching, and delightful, things about us.