The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: asdf2231 on August 20, 2008, 10:52:57 AM
-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3826143
nadine_mn (760 posts) Wed Aug-20-08 11:02 AM
Original message
Poverty IS NOT an adventure
Advertisements [?]Edited on Wed Aug-20-08 11:04 AM by nadine_mn
dammit
So I have been watching and reading the growing media coverage of "saving money"... how to cut food costs, fuel costs, etc. Websites, local news, etc all have cute little articles showing a spunky and thrifty caucasian "roughing it" :
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/R...
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail ;jsessionid=5CEC57BCB47A84C58ED6BBEF586721EA?contentId=7241041&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1
I think my favoite is the Gourmet Meal from the Dollar Store
http://www.myfoxny.com/myfox/pages/Business/Detail?cont...
"I've never seen canned potatoes"
Seriously... $1 per item is frickin pricey.. and that is assuming you have everything else we take for granted (cooking oils, spices, etc).
Poverty isn't fun, it isn't an adventure, it isn't about being creative by going "retro" (as in sooo last season) at H&M, it isn't a passing thing.
Now I know these type of stories are aimed at those recently experiencing a budget crunch, but the effect .. at least to me... is trivializing what it is like to really struggle.
I am fortunate now.. even though I have been unemployed for the last 10 months.. my husband makes enough that we still have luxuries like internet, cell phone, but it is tight. But there was a time when I had to drink powdered milk because that was affordable (shudder seriously nasty), when knowing which grocery stores had the most accessible dumpsters - you would be surprsied at what good stuff gets tossed, knowing when Goodwill had 50% off stuff, and how to juggle bills so that you are never on-time but not getting shut off either. I have had power, phone, cable etc shut off more times than I can count... even when we have a storm and the power is out, I first call to make sure our bill is paid.
None of the 2nd hand stores shown are the kind most likely to be frequented by low income people... Goodwill, Savers, Disabled Vets -these are where the bargains are and only get highlighted in Oct when the same human interest reporters are doing "cheap Halloween costume ideas". Once my husband balked at buying pants at a thrift store and I asked him.. what do you think happens to the clothes we donate? Are you better than the person who is buying your shirts and jeans? That made him think and now he is a lover of 2nd hand shopping too.
I know what it is like to be at the food shelf and dreading more creamed corn and mac & cheese... NOTE to all well-meaning food donors... mac & cheese assumes you have milk and butter... that can be expensive. Canned chicken instead of tuna was a treat, and so was any type of snack food.. because everyone needs to snack.
I love when people criticize low income people for eating fast food... that dollar menu is cheap and fills the belly, and when you have been working a long day or double shift... no one wants to go home and be "creative" in the kitchen. You want to eat, watch tv, and then go to bed before doing it all again. Praying the car starts, or walking to the bus stop and spending nearly 2 hours between transfers and stops to make sure you keep your minimum wage job, hoping your kids don't get sick because you can't pick them up from school, and hoping you don't get sick because you can't take time off.
And if you can't afford a car, or no access to a bus... well then ride a bike! Really? Because its not just on nice sunny days you have to ride that stupid bike, its also rainy, humid or cold ass winter days. And what kind of bike do you have? Nothing Lance Armstrong would be caught dead on... nope some used, broke down 2nd hand bike. Arriving to work all sweaty in clothes you have to try to wear 2 or 3x before washing because its expensive at the laundromat (and have you biked to the laundromat with you and your kids clothes?). Low income people don't have the luxury of good health either... so that bike ride.. can be frickin murder. And nothing screams "call child protection" then picking your kids up from school on your ten-speed.
The people doing these "human interest" stories are always so relieved to be done with their "challenge" and go back to regular life.
When do the thousands of Americans living below the poverty level get to be done with their "challenge"?
Try getting off your ass and looking in the Want Ads for a temporary PAYING job to help out your husband instead of sitting on your dumb ass bitching on the internet about how poor you are. :whatever:
-
When do the thousands of Americans living below the poverty level get to be done with their "challenge"?
When they earn more money? That's my guess.
As we have learn from the last 40 years of failed democrat policies, we cannot "gift" our way out of this "poverty" mess.
-
Ya know, I have been pretty poor, like most people. You work hard and EARN your way out of it. No one likes it but you do what you can to get out of it. I hate to see statements like this;
And if you can't afford a car, or no access to a bus... well then ride a bike! Really? Because its not just on nice sunny days you have to ride that stupid bike, its also rainy, humid or cold ass winter days. And what kind of bike do you have? Nothing Lance Armstrong would be caught dead on... nope some used, broke down 2nd hand bike.
Back in the early eighties I was stupid and traded a perfectly good pick up truck for a motorcycle. Once I got the bike I didn't have enough money to get out of it. I worked a job 30 miles from my house and I lived in south west Missouri. I rode that damn motorcycle everyday for a year and a half until I saved enough money to get out of the bike and into another pickup. The only time I missed work was when there was ice, actual ice, on the roads and no one was making it to work.
I don't want to hear the whining ..... I want to hear how you are solving the problem. Yeah, it is nasty sometimes and you have to do things you don't want to do but you learn and move on. Minimum wage is nothing more than a starting place and if you are staying there on purpose then you are an idiot or too lazy to live.
Just my opinion.
KC
-
Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it. Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures. Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!
:loser:
-
I call bullshit. This sounds like a, OMG......... WHITE PERSON trying to be AWARE of poverty, and care.
Complete crap. :loser:
-
Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it. Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures. Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!
That, sir, is eminently admirable of you.
Until I read that, I thought I was probably the only person who looked at it this way.
-
Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it. Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures. Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!
That, sir, is eminently admirable of you.
Until I read that, I thought I was probably the only person who looked at it this way.
You are not alone. Some of us don't express it as such. I consider just about everything a challenge, or adventure if you will. I enjoy everything which requires creativity to overcome - be it a financial slump, a lawnmower that needs repair, or a tried guestroom that needs to see a new day.
It's all good.
-
Why thank you, Frank. You're a gentleman and a scholar, sir, and in whichever order you prefer.
:cheersmate:
-
Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it. Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures. Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!
That, sir, is eminently admirable of you.
Until I read that, I thought I was probably the only person who looked at it this way.
You are not alone. Some of us don't express it as such. I consider just about everything a challenge, or adventure if you will. I enjoy everything which requires creativity to overcome - be it a financial slump, a lawnmower that needs repair, or a tried guestroom that needs to see a new day.
It's all good.
Well there is a reward in knowing you got out of it based on your own resourcefulness and tenacity. It's the antithesis of hopelessness.
My toughest years were coming out of my parents house. I got where I needed to go on my own 2 feet, the Miami-Dade public transportation, and the kindness of friends(on occasion). It really sucked sometimes and I did find myself in a few compromising situations as a young woman on her own with no daddy to run back to, but it was a means to an end. I just made sure I didn't ever complicate my situation intentionally like a lot of young women end up doing ie pregnancy.
-
Holy Heck.
The oiriginal thread turned into a bonfire with "Eff you! I"M poor and YOU are a POSUER!" messages all through it.
Kewl!
-
Holy Heck.
The oiriginal thread turned into a bonfire with "Eff you! I"M poor and YOU are a POSUER!" messages all through it.
Kewl!
It's hilarious Marrah_G (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-20-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
12. I agree with almost your entire thread
Edited on Wed Aug-20-08 12:05 PM by Marrah_G
I'm a working class mom- single, barely making it.
Edit: this sounds way more pissy then I meant it to and after reading the links I realized I mistook your words. Just sort of a touchy and sensitive topic. Many times my children and i have gotten by on 20 cent packs of ramen noodles because I have 5.00 to last until payday. School clothes? there is nothing left for that luxury.
Marrah has a star.
rynobales (12 posts) Wed Aug-20-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well, not as bluntly as the last person but...
This isn't a one-size fits all argument.
My wife works in health care making home visits with VERY LOW income families and is frequently shocked when she goes into filthy homes that are crawling with bugs, the kids are eating just rice for dinner or other meals that are far from anything substantial or nutricious, yet they'll have 8 or 10 year old kids with their own cell phones, texting the whole time she's there. They've got cable TV and DVD players and an Xbox - stuff even I consider luxuries (I'm 30 and just recently got a cell phone on the lowest plan that doesn't include texting and we just recently got cable cause we couldn't afford it).
I agree that many families out there who are really trying to get by and are saving their money to buy bug spray and clean clothes and better automobiles and what not - but there are also many families out there who are struggling because they choose to spend their money on the latest tech items rather than necessities.
I love helping lower class people and often help out in my community but many in our society need to want to help themselves before anything we do or say is going to help them.
Gormy Cuss (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-20-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Welcome to DU.
If the kids are eating just rice for dinner, perhaps there's no money and it's not related to the electronic geegaws.
The X-box may have been donated by a secret santa, the cells and DVDs may have been given to them or bought for cheap on the secondary market when the family had more money. Even at retail some DVD players are under $30 --maybe grandma gave it to them last Christmas. Maybe the cable isn't a legal hookup. More to the point with perhaps the exception of the X-box those items have zilch in resale value.
It's amazing to me that no matter the decade, there are always people ready to criticize low income people based on their possessions without having any idea how the person arrived where they are today.
It used to be criticizing us for having any TV or telephone. People used to criticize my family because my mother "owned" the house after the divorce. Well, none of the little busybodies knew that we had no insurance and every year needed to scramble to avoid being evicted for back taxes. When something broke, it didn't get fixed unless we couldn't do without. We flushed the toilet with buckets, lived without gas, had some windows that we couldn't open because the frames were so rotted that my mother was afraid the whole thing would fall out. It was far cheaper to live in the house than move our large family to a rental and because of the neighborhood, the value of the house at sale would have paid for rent for less than a year -- after that time if we were lucky we would have qualified for a public housing unit or substandard apartment.
-
rynobales2 (2 posts) Wed Aug-20-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Sorry if I offended
Apparently, someone in the DU community was unhappy with me and banned me from conversation. Not sure if it was this topic or the other one I had posted on, but I'll stop giving my opinion now.
Good luck to you all who ban the posters trying to have conversations that encourage thought and strive for understanding on both sides.
:lmao:
-
A couple of things come to mind here.
One, it takes some discipline and determination to elevate one out of poverty. For the DUmmies it is easier to bitch about having to ride a bike to work on a rainy day than bucking up and donning raingear to ride their bike to work. Pathetic bastards, they are always looking for the easy way out.
Two, every summer I spend a few nights teaching financial skills at a local charity. This year is no different than the years past. The majority of the "students" have tatoos, have piercings, smoke, have huge CC debt and do not have the income to cover their bills. I attempt to teach them budgeting skills and such novel ideas as not spending more than they take in. Most are DUmmy material and always are asking if I know of government programs for them to sign up for. There are a some hard luck stories due to illness, job loss etc. I feel for them, but most lived on the edge on borrowed money and never gave a thought to what happens if their luck turns sour. Having an emergency fund was never considered. I always ask them if they would like to have $3,000 to $4,000 in additional cash in the next year. It gets them all fired up...until I tell them to stop smoking. Most are deluded into believing that Obama is going to solve all of their problems.
-
when knowing which grocery stores had the most accessible dumpsters -
GROSS! She's eating out of dumpsters! :puke:
-
when knowing which grocery stores had the most accessible dumpsters -
GROSS! She's eating out of dumpsters! :puke:
It's not quite like that. Stores do throw out some pretty useful stuff. I have a sister-in-law who is a partner in a "resale" shop in a small town. They get most of their merchandise from combing the dumpsters in Dallas. They do pretty good too. My S-I-L is your typical soccer mom-looking lady.
You would be surprised at the slightly dented can goods and such they pick up along the way. It is a pity when these things go to the dump and get plowed under. They give the food stuff to a food pantry in Kaufman.
-
I really have to wonder about their entire thought process. Things like:
But there was a time when I had to drink powdered milk because that was affordable
The last time I checked, powdered milk cost the same as regular 2%. Now, if she got it as a commodity food, I could see it. But if she bought it, she didn't save anything.
clothes you have to try to wear 2 or 3x before washing because its expensive at the laundromat
And it's impossible to wash them by hand? Seriously, I did that for months when I couldn't afford to replace my washer...and I already had 2 kids by then. (Now, that was tough...getting stains out of kid's clothes...but do-able.)
nothing screams "call child protection" then picking your kids up from school on your ten-speed.
Again...I knew a man who picked up his kids with his bike every day it was nice, and on foot the rest of the time.
Even my daughter has picked up her boys while on her bike. She has one of those pull-behind trailers.
The people doing these "human interest" stories are always so relieved to be done with their "challenge" and go back to regular life.
Now, this part is true. On the other hand, those that live that way are used to it, and know all the tricks to get by. I know we have no problem dropping our grocery bill in half when we need. ::)
-
when knowing which grocery stores had the most accessible dumpsters -
GROSS! She's eating out of dumpsters! :puke:
It's not quite like that. Stores do throw out some pretty useful stuff. I have a sister-in-law who is a partner in a "resale" shop in a small town. They get most of their merchandise from combing the dumpsters in Dallas. They do pretty good too. My S-I-L is your typical soccer mom-looking lady.
You would be surprised at the slightly dented can goods and such they pick up along the way. It is a pity when these things go to the dump and get plowed under. They give the food stuff to a food pantry in Kaufman.
OMG LU, you can't say that out loud! If the homeless who have been eating half eaten burritos straight from the can find out your SIL has been bringing dented cans to the food pantry .... there will be suits. SUITS I tell you!! Brought on by DUmmies on BEHALF of the homeless mind you but suits no less.
KC
-
OMG LU, you can't say that out loud! If the homeless who have been eating half eaten burritos straight from the can find out your SIL has been bringing dented cans to the food pantry .... there will be suits. SUITS I tell you!! Brought on by DUmmies on BEHALF of the homeless mind you but suits no less.
KC
They sell canned burritos? :hyper:
-
OMG LU, you can't say that out loud! If the homeless who have been eating half eaten burritos straight from the can find out your SIL has been bringing dented cans to the food pantry .... there will be suits. SUITS I tell you!! Brought on by DUmmies on BEHALF of the homeless mind you but suits no less.
KC
They sell canned burritos? :hyper:
:lmao:
Smart ass!
KC
-
OMG LU, you can't say that out loud! If the homeless who have been eating half eaten burritos straight from the can find out your SIL has been bringing dented cans to the food pantry .... there will be suits. SUITS I tell you!! Brought on by DUmmies on BEHALF of the homeless mind you but suits no less.
KC
They sell canned burritos? :hyper:
You have to remember......I'm in Texas ..... we get our burritos a lot of different ways. Like ..... On a stick. :-)
KC
-
Canned burritos sounds pretty tasty right now. :cheersmate:
-
lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-20-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
46. Those with poor money management skills are hit harder by misfortune.
Edited on Wed Aug-20-08 03:26 PM by lumberjack_jeff
Our family is low income too, (significantly less than $40k/year for a family of five) but we do okay - partly because we have good financial sense, partly because we have useful tightwad skills (I can fix my own car and build my own house) and partly because we saved diligently when times were good. Looking in from outside, you would not guess that we have such a low income... unless the topic is what's on TV, shopping, eating out, new movies or or "going out". These are topics of which we're wholly ignorant. Our older kids have cellphones, which they finance through working for neighbors.
So we're lucky, to the degree that a family of five with the main breadwinner making $16/hour can be considered lucky.
The major problem with our budget is the fact that we live 10mi from the nearest town and 22mi from work. We spend more on gas than food.
My point is that it's not either-or. Poor folks don't necessarily have only themselves to blame, but poor life skills do contribute to the severity of adversity.
Poverty can't be solved without helping people acquire life skills.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-20-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
164. Yours was a deeply paternalistic post.
I make 637.00 a month and have an IQ high enough that specifying it would make me look like a jackass. (I think people can deduce that you are a jackass without you mentioning your staggeringly high IQ)Would you like to do some charity work on my behalf and come teach me some "life skills?" You got any Tony Robbins tapes? I just love him, and that nice smiling Money lady that's always on the TV, too. Tell me about the rabbits, George. Maybe later we can discuss Quine's influence on the analytic/synthetic distinction in 20th century philosophy. After you teach me how to count money, that is.
And don't think I'm some anomaly, either. Yours was just a kindler, gentler version of the "stupidity and ignorance cause poverty" argument, and I wish people who feel that way could have a conversation with some of the poor people I know...
What a fekking loser.
lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-20-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #164
192. People of every socioeconomic background have poor money management skills.
Edited on Wed Aug-20-08 11:03 PM by lumberjack_jeff
The difference is that poor people can't afford it.
$637? Is the market for smug intellectual superiority not what it once was? Perhaps you could go into business selling snark.
You might as well share that IQ score, it won't change appearances to any appreciable degree.
$637 is about 30% more than the income for each member of my household. Perhaps you're premature in rejecting that advice.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-20-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #192
198. Hehe, very predictable response.
For the lack of any more substantive counter, you chose to paint me as a boasting snob. And you know what? That would be a very tenable argument except for one thing:
I ONLY mention my IQ, qualifications, intellectual work, independent study, or any of that in ONE type of thread and one type ALONE. Yep, that would poverty-related threads. And guess what ALWAYS occurs before I do so? Yep, you guessed right again - somebody states or implies that poverty is caused by stupidity or ignorance.
Guess what? Chances are I find people who boast about their IQ or intellect at every opportunity just as obnoxious as you do. Good thing I don't do something as silly as that. I mention it in one specific circumstance ONLY - and this thread meets the criteria. Sorry, but them's the breaks.
For the record, I do thank you for clarifying your statement regarding money management.
As for selling snark, it certainly appears to be a buyer's market tonight.
And now, just so you can carry on thinking I'm smug and self-absorbed, I'll close with an appropriate snide remark - class dismissed.
$637.00... A Month. I'm pretty sure that the retarded kid in the crash helmet who collects carts at the Piggly Wiggly near me makes more than that in a month.
-
OPERATIONMINDCRIME (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-20-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
29. The Articles Are Perfectly Fine And None Were Trivializing A Thing.
In fact, it appears that you just used those stories as a springboard to go off on some unrelated poor me type rant, to be honest with ya.
The articles were written well and informative, and I don't see the slightest reason for you to have gotten bitter over them and to rant as you did in the OP.
So the articles didn't apply to you or your income level. Oh well. But to be so bitter towards them for that? Unwarranted.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-20-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
89. This dismissive response brought to you by somebody...
Who has been praised in certain "unmentionable" conservative communities as "one of the few sensible voices on DU."
I guess we just got a clue why they might think so, eh?
:-)
OPERATIONMINDCRIME (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-20-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #89
119. Your Ad Hominem Attack Was Worthless. My Point Stands.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-20-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #119
138. Yep, it sure was ad hom.
I note you didn't deny they praised you over at a place which cannot be mentioned. Gee, why would they do that?
"Ye shall know them by their fruits" is ad hom, too. Didn't stop a certain commie hippie from saying it.
Well we certainly know DU by it's fruits...
-
$637 a month is less than $4 an hour. :bs:
-
Wow.
If our old home is "the site that shall not be mentioned," are we "the unmentionable site"?
-
$637 a month is less than $4 an hour. :bs:
Hush yo mouf!
He's a SOOOOOOPER GENIUS!
Tha's probably all his parents will pay him for getting off his ass and taking out the trash once a week mixed with the occaisional for the love of God take a bath bribe.
-
Wow.
If our old home is "the site that shall not be mentioned," are we "the unmentionable site"?
You noticed that too?
We wonders, we wonders...
-
Wow.
If our old home is "the site that shall not be mentioned," are we "the unmentionable site"?
You noticed that too?
We wonders, we wonders...
There's a subtle difference in wording.
"The site that shall not be named" was engraved in granite in the minds of the primitives; they never varied from that (although in this case it's "mentioned," not "named").
This used to intrigue me because the primitives usually avoid using the word "shall," for reasons Sigmund Freud well understood. And so the "shall" always stood out.
-
Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it. Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures. Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!
That, sir, is eminently admirable of you.
Until I read that, I thought I was probably the only person who looked at it this way.
I think quite a few things are an adventure and sometimes when I am having a bad adventure I compare it to the Goonies (as in "Hey, I'm having an adventure, just like the Goonies!") but I don't see poverty as an adventure so much as it is a state of mind.
Impoverished people work just as hard as being poor as rich people work at being rich and middle class people work at being in between the two. So I think the poor deserve a lot of credit for what they do. When one is good at something, one should take pride in it and poor people are experts at being poor and thinking the kinds of thoughts that keep them poor. Just like rich people think the kind of thoughts that make them rich. The act, after all, is the blossom of thought.
-
Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it. Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures. Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!
That, sir, is eminently admirable of you.
Until I read that, I thought I was probably the only person who looked at it this way.
I think quite a few things are an adventure and sometimes when I am having a bad adventure I compare it to the Goonies (as in "Hey, I'm having an adventure, just like the Goonies!") but I don't see poverty as an adventure so much as it is a state of mind.
Impoverished people work just as hard as being poor as rich people work at being rich and middle class people work at being in between the two. So I think the poor deserve a lot of credit for what they do. When one is good at something, one should take pride in it and poor people are experts at being poor and thinking the kinds of thoughts that keep them poor. Just like rich people think the kind of thoughts that make them rich. The act, after all, is the blossom of thought.
-
Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it. Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures. Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!
That, sir, is eminently admirable of you.
Until I read that, I thought I was probably the only person who looked at it this way.
I think quite a few things are an adventure and sometimes when I am having a bad adventure I compare it to the Goonies (as in "Hey, I'm having an adventure, just like the Goonies!") but I don't see poverty as an adventure so much as it is a state of mind.
Impoverished people work just as hard as being poor as rich people work at being rich and middle class people work at being in between the two. So I think the poor deserve a lot of credit for what they do. When one is good at something, one should take pride in it and poor people are experts at being poor and thinking the kinds of thoughts that keep them poor. Just like rich people think the kind of thoughts that make them rich. The act, after all, is the blossom of thought.
W T F ???????????????
-
Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it. Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures. Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!
That, sir, is eminently admirable of you.
Until I read that, I thought I was probably the only person who looked at it this way.
I think quite a few things are an adventure and sometimes when I am having a bad adventure I compare it to the Goonies (as in "Hey, I'm having an adventure, just like the Goonies!") but I don't see poverty as an adventure so much as it is a state of mind.
Impoverished people work just as hard as being poor as rich people work at being rich and middle class people work at being in between the two. So I think the poor deserve a lot of credit for what they do. When one is good at something, one should take pride in it and poor people are experts at being poor and thinking the kinds of thoughts that keep them poor. Just like rich people think the kind of thoughts that make them rich. The act, after all, is the blossom of thought.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l307/asdf2231/smileys%20and%20fun/kaneklap.gif)
:-)
-
$637 a month is less than $4 an hour. :bs:
Hush yo mouf!
He's a SOOOOOOPER GENIUS!
Tha's probably all his parents will pay him for getting off his ass and taking out the trash once a week mixed with the occaisional for the love of God take a bath bribe.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-20-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
86. Amen... thanks for this post.
Edited on Wed Aug-20-08 06:36 PM by Naturyl
If these upper-class "sympathizers" want a little bit tougher challenge, they can take mine - try a LIFETIME of it. I wonder how they would have done on less than $8k a year for the last 8 years and not much more before that. Can we say "community mental health center?"
I wonder if this one is the SubwayKitty's roommate when she occasionally has to go on "vacation". Amazing how many geniuses on DU can't seem to make more per hour than the 14 year-old that mows my lawn.
-
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Wed Aug-20-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
164. Yours was a deeply paternalistic post.
I make 637.00 a month and have an IQ high enough that specifying it would make me look like a jackass. (I think people can deduce that you are a jackass without you mentioning your staggeringly high IQ)Would you like to do some charity work on my behalf and come teach me some "life skills?" You got any Tony Robbins tapes? I just love him, and that nice smiling Money lady that's always on the TV, too. Tell me about the rabbits, George. Maybe later we can discuss Quine's influence on the analytic/synthetic distinction in 20th century philosophy. After you teach me how to count money, that is.
And don't think I'm some anomaly, either. Yours was just a kindler, gentler version of the "stupidity and ignorance cause poverty" argument, and I wish people who feel that way could have a conversation with some of the poor people I know...
Mr Smith lived on about $600 a month for a couple years between his divorce and our marriage...and had to pay 1/2 of uncovered medical, 1/2 of extra-curricular activities, 100% of transportation costs for his children, and his own living expenses. He managed.
I lived on about that amount for years, and I had 3...and then 4...kids. We had a house, a car, food, clothing, no health insurance so I just paid outright for medical costs.
Of course, I have a reasonably high IQ, so I went back to college for something that would earn decent money...meaning very little study of "Quine's influence on the analytic/synthetic distinction in 20th century philosophy" and quite a bit of practical learning...and now my income is quite a bit higher.
Naturyl, since it seems you may lurk here, may I point out the fact that you are a LOSER. If you want to keep getting what you're getting, keep doing what you're doing. If you want something different...change. :tongue:
-
Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it. Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures. Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!
That, sir, is eminently admirable of you.
Until I read that, I thought I was probably the only person who looked at it this way.
I think quite a few things are an adventure and sometimes when I am having a bad adventure I compare it to the Goonies (as in "Hey, I'm having an adventure, just like the Goonies!") but I don't see poverty as an adventure so much as it is a state of mind.
Impoverished people work just as hard as being poor as rich people work at being rich and middle class people work at being in between the two. So I think the poor deserve a lot of credit for what they do. When one is good at something, one should take pride in it and poor people are experts at being poor and thinking the kinds of thoughts that keep them poor. Just like rich people think the kind of thoughts that make them rich. The act, after all, is the blossom of thought.
W T F ???????????????
The Goonies was this sort of really bad movies from Stephen Spielberg in the 1980's about a group of kids in Seattle having their last great adventure before the junkies took over the city. It's a little like Caligula meets Barjo. Only really, really bad. Cindy Lauper's She Bop was a featured song which really does show the depths to which Spielberg sunk only a few years after his great triumph with E.T.
The phrase "We're having an adventure, just like the Goonies!" has become the vernacular of those who recognize they are in a sort of unpleasant situation with at least one other and notice tempers are either flaring or on the verge of flaring and thus the superior person chooses to diffuse the situation with humor and compassion by voicing "Hey! We're having an adventure just like the Goonies!"
-
What would happen if we went through some REAL hard times in this country? Like Great-Depression/Dustbowl bad?
These DUmmies have no idea.
-
What would happen if we went through some REAL hard times in this country? Like Great-Depression/Dustbowl bad?
These DUmmies have no idea.
That is just the point, even during the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl, there were happy people, especially Packer fans because we really kicked ass in the first two Dust Bowls, but I digress.
As the hated (by some here) tyrant, Abraham Lincoln once said: Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
And then he made the South cry.
DUmmies are poor and miserable because that is what they have made up their minds to be.
-
Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it. Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures. Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!
That, sir, is eminently admirable of you.
Until I read that, I thought I was probably the only person who looked at it this way.
I think quite a few things are an adventure and sometimes when I am having a bad adventure I compare it to the Goonies (as in "Hey, I'm having an adventure, just like the Goonies!") but I don't see poverty as an adventure so much as it is a state of mind.
Impoverished people work just as hard as being poor as rich people work at being rich and middle class people work at being in between the two. So I think the poor deserve a lot of credit for what they do. When one is good at something, one should take pride in it and poor people are experts at being poor and thinking the kinds of thoughts that keep them poor. Just like rich people think the kind of thoughts that make them rich. The act, after all, is the blossom of thought.
W T F ???????????????
The Goonies was this sort of really bad movies from Stephen Spielberg in the 1980's about a group of kids in Seattle having their last great adventure before the junkies took over the city. It's a little like Caligula meets Barjo. Only really, really bad. Cindy Lauper's She Bop was a featured song which really does show the depths to which Spielberg sunk only a few years after his great triumph with E.T.
The phrase "We're having an adventure, just like the Goonies!" has become the vernacular of those who recognize they are in a sort of unpleasant situation with at least one other and notice tempers are either flaring or on the verge of flaring and thus the superior person chooses to diffuse the situation with humor and compassion by voicing "Hey! We're having an adventure just like the Goonies!"
It was the second pph I as referencing.
-
Everything is an adventure, if you put your mind in the right place to feel it. Adventures have bad parts too, or they wouldn't be adventures. Get off your ass and live life, Nadine!
That, sir, is eminently admirable of you.
Until I read that, I thought I was probably the only person who looked at it this way.
I think quite a few things are an adventure and sometimes when I am having a bad adventure I compare it to the Goonies (as in "Hey, I'm having an adventure, just like the Goonies!") but I don't see poverty as an adventure so much as it is a state of mind.
Impoverished people work just as hard as being poor as rich people work at being rich and middle class people work at being in between the two. So I think the poor deserve a lot of credit for what they do. When one is good at something, one should take pride in it and poor people are experts at being poor and thinking the kinds of thoughts that keep them poor. Just like rich people think the kind of thoughts that make them rich. The act, after all, is the blossom of thought.
W T F ???????????????
The Goonies was this sort of really bad movies from Stephen Spielberg in the 1980's about a group of kids in Seattle having their last great adventure before the junkies took over the city. It's a little like Caligula meets Barjo. Only really, really bad. Cindy Lauper's She Bop was a featured song which really does show the depths to which Spielberg sunk only a few years after his great triumph with E.T.
The phrase "We're having an adventure, just like the Goonies!" has become the vernacular of those who recognize they are in a sort of unpleasant situation with at least one other and notice tempers are either flaring or on the verge of flaring and thus the superior person chooses to diffuse the situation with humor and compassion by voicing "Hey! We're having an adventure just like the Goonies!"
It was the second pph I as referencing.
Oh, hmmm, that part seems pretty clear to me.
The Goonies, I think, is more obscure and therefore more in need of explaining.
Funny how that works.
-
Impoverished people work just as hard as being poor as rich people work at being rich and middle class people work at being in between the two. So I think the poor deserve a lot of credit for what they do. When one is good at something, one should take pride in it and poor people are experts at being poor and thinking the kinds of thoughts that keep them poor. Just like rich people think the kind of thoughts that make them rich. The act, after all, is the blossom of thought.
You don't find that string of words bizarre? It sounds like a Mentat chant.
(http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/e8b/6af/e8b6af83-cf11-493c-9fc9-702151ec1fd4.large-profile.jpg)
-
Impoverished people work just as hard as being poor as rich people work at being rich and middle class people work at being in between the two. So I think the poor deserve a lot of credit for what they do. When one is good at something, one should take pride in it and poor people are experts at being poor and thinking the kinds of thoughts that keep them poor. Just like rich people think the kind of thoughts that make them rich. The act, after all, is the blossom of thought.
You don't find that string of words bizarre? It sounds like a Mentat chant.
(http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/e8b/6af/e8b6af83-cf11-493c-9fc9-702151ec1fd4.large-profile.jpg)
LOL, well, first of all, the emphasis on the will as a creative force is a common mistake but here it is amplified by giving it credit for setting the mind in motion which is simply backward to the actual function of the will, but I digress.
Am I to take it you don't think poor people deserve the credit for the fruit of their mental labor, e.g. poverty? I don't get where what I wrote is overly complicated. Maybe you're an intellectual? I understand that intellectuals just expect things to be complicated and get confused when they turn out to be quite simple. To be clear, I am only suggesting you may be an intellectual, I don't know, I'm just guessing based on the intellectual's propensity for cocking up very simple things.
Or perhaps you view action as superior to thought? I do know most people act first and then think later and usually the thinking is in the form of "why did this happen to me?" But much like the Red Queen cried before she pricked herself, it is much better to focus on what one wants first, which is to say, think about it, and then the actions needed to manifest that thought present themselves. The Red Queen cries, and then the action that led to the tears suggests itself in the form of a pin prick.
Anyway, wealth and poverty don't just happen. Many people claim to want money but then rail against and hate the rich, therefore they receive poverty. It is not possible to mount two horses. Well, and remain in one piece, at any rate. The rich are rich because they predominantly think about being rich and the poor are poor because they predominantly think about being poor. Doctors are doctors because they predominantly think about treating people in a medical fashion, or perhaps just telling nurses what to do but either way. Fashion designers are fashion designers because they predominantly think about fashion. And then they all take the actions suggested by their thinking. But the thinking is always first.
Intellectuals are intellectuals because they predominantly think about making very simple things seem vastly complicated. And then they do it.
-
LOL, well, first of all, the emphasis on the will as a creative force is a common mistake but here it is amplified by giving it credit for setting the mind in motion which is simply backward to the actual function of the will, but I digress.
Am I to take it you don't think poor people deserve the credit for the fruit of their mental labor, e.g. poverty? I don't get where what I wrote is overly complicated. Maybe you're an intellectual? I understand that intellectuals just expect things to be complicated and get confused when they turn out to be quite simple. To be clear, I am only suggesting you may be an intellectual, I don't know, I'm just guessing based on the intellectual's propensity for cocking up very simple things.
Poor people are almost always poor as a result of doing to little thinking, especially in terms of linking consequences to actions. It is intellectual laziness and "living in the moment" (which is the laziest thing one can do) that causes most poverty (just to be clear: I am excluding unforseen accidents and incidents -- I am talking about just stupid decisions)
Or perhaps you view action as superior to thought?
More Mentat? Doing is always superior to thinking. But doing should be BASED on thinking first.
I do know most people act first and then think later and usually the thinking is in the form of "why did this happen to me?" But much like the Red Queen cried before she pricked herself, it is much better to focus on what one wants first, which is to say, think about it, and then the actions needed to manifest that thought present themselves. The Red Queen cries, and then the action that led to the tears suggests itself in the form of a pin prick.
Such thoughts do not just manifest themselves. They are the result of hard and frequently uncomfortable thinking about how actions create consequences.
Anyway, wealth and poverty don't just happen. Many people claim to want money but then rail against and hate the rich, therefore they receive poverty. It is not possible to mount two horses. Well, and remain in one piece, at any rate.
Sometimes they do. People are born into poverty all the time. Likewise people are born into wealth. Discarding choosing parents properly, the hate of the rich is directly associated with the modern Socialists (rich themselves and thus able to entertain and encourage self-hate). Non-inherited poverty is a direct result of bad decisions. And in the USA you can make decisions -- AND ACT UPON THEM -- to leave poverty. How do I know? I DID IT.
The rich are rich because they predominantly think about being rich and the poor are poor because they predominantly think about being poor. Doctors are doctors because they predominantly think about treating people in a medical fashion, or perhaps just telling nurses what to do but either way. Fashion designers are fashion designers because they predominantly think about fashion. And then they all take the actions suggested by their thinking. But the thinking is always first.
That is a non sequitur. The rich are rich because they take actions to ensure and increase their wealth (what is your definition of "rich" by?). They evaluate risks and take them. Sometimes they fail and become "poor." But our system rewards risks more often than not. Poor people don't think about risk, they usually just think about creature comforts.
The fact that people think about their vocations or avocations doesn't factor into the rich/poor thing, except to the degree that those (a)vocations provide wealth,
Intellectuals are intellectuals because they predominantly think about making very simple things seem vastly complicated. And then they do it.
Intellectuals value ideas over people. They think rather than do. They are generally useless.
-
LOL, well, first of all, the emphasis on the will as a creative force is a common mistake but here it is amplified by giving it credit for setting the mind in motion which is simply backward to the actual function of the will, but I digress.
Am I to take it you don't think poor people deserve the credit for the fruit of their mental labor, e.g. poverty? I don't get where what I wrote is overly complicated. Maybe you're an intellectual? I understand that intellectuals just expect things to be complicated and get confused when they turn out to be quite simple. To be clear, I am only suggesting you may be an intellectual, I don't know, I'm just guessing based on the intellectual's propensity for cocking up very simple things.
Poor people are almost always poor as a result of doing to little thinking, especially in terms of linking consequences to actions. It is intellectual laziness and "living in the moment" (which is the laziest thing one can do) that causes most poverty (just to be clear: I am excluding unforseen accidents and incidents -- I am talking about just stupid decisions)
Or perhaps you view action as superior to thought?
More Mentat? Doing is always superior to thinking. But doing should be BASED on thinking first.
I do know most people act first and then think later and usually the thinking is in the form of "why did this happen to me?" But much like the Red Queen cried before she pricked herself, it is much better to focus on what one wants first, which is to say, think about it, and then the actions needed to manifest that thought present themselves. The Red Queen cries, and then the action that led to the tears suggests itself in the form of a pin prick.
Such thoughts do not just manifest themselves. They are the result of hard and frequently uncomfortable thinking about how actions create consequences.
Anyway, wealth and poverty don't just happen. Many people claim to want money but then rail against and hate the rich, therefore they receive poverty. It is not possible to mount two horses. Well, and remain in one piece, at any rate.
Sometimes they do. People are born into poverty all the time. Likewise people are born into wealth. Discarding choosing parents properly, the hate of the rich is directly associated with the modern Socialists (rich themselves and thus able to entertain and encourage self-hate). Non-inherited poverty is a direct result of bad decisions. And in the USA you can make decisions -- AND ACT UPON THEM -- to leave poverty. How do I know? I DID IT.
The rich are rich because they predominantly think about being rich and the poor are poor because they predominantly think about being poor. Doctors are doctors because they predominantly think about treating people in a medical fashion, or perhaps just telling nurses what to do but either way. Fashion designers are fashion designers because they predominantly think about fashion. And then they all take the actions suggested by their thinking. But the thinking is always first.
That is a non sequitur. The rich are rich because they take actions to ensure and increase their wealth (what is your definition of "rich" by?). They evaluate risks and take them. Sometimes they fail and become "poor." But our system rewards risks more often than not. Poor people don't think about risk, they usually just think about creature comforts.
The fact that people think about their vocations or avocations doesn't factor into the rich/poor thing, except to the degree that those (a)vocations provide wealth,
Intellectuals are intellectuals because they predominantly think about making very simple things seem vastly complicated. And then they do it.
Intellectuals value ideas over people. They think rather than do. They are generally useless.
I would say well thought out action is superior to thought alone. Doing is actually a form of thought so yes, it has more power than just thinking a thought but simply acting for the sake of acting is the same as impotent power. Often times we end up taking action we would not have needed to take if we took the time to think through what we were trying to accomplish. What we actually wanted.
People who start out poor and choose to become rich first have to think that it might be possible.
People who are poor their whole life think they can't be rich or it never occurs to them to think about how they might become rich. They only reinforce their own poverty.
The world is actually a projection of what we think. This is why two people can go to the same event and one will have a fun experience and the other will find it as depressing as anything else in their life.
I am not as overly analytical as you are, obviously, but I was pretty clear that the action needs to be taken. First think about what you want and then act upon the inspiration that comes to you.
A fashion designer can't just visualize her clothing being displayed on the runway and expect that to happen, she has to design the fashions. But she has to be able to see the fashions before she can design them. And thus, the action is the flower of the thought.
A doctor can't just prescribe a drug if he hasn't thought of a diagnoses. Well, I guess in the modern HMO system he doesn't really need to because the CEO tells him everything he can do and not do, but in more classical times this was the case.
When it is done in a backward manner of acting first, people tend to be miserable and feel powerless because they think the world is something that is happening to them instead of something they are actively creating through their thought (or lack of it) and action (or lack of it). It may be mentat to you but there is no getting around it. The world does not create itself.
-
This is the most disjointed, disconnected, confusing post I've ever staggered through. There's some DUmmy whose kids only have ramen to eat, but who nevertheless sends money to Skinner. Then there's another DUmmy who claims an astronomical IQ, but who somehow has never been within hailing distance of minimum wage. Is that you, Rainman? Then there is the DUmmy who is apparently sucking up swill from dumpsters around town, but has a computer with internet access. And of course, as in any other thread mentioning poverty, the DUmp's favorite wino bobbolink drops by to spread some sunshine.
The whole thing gave me a headache, and I still have no idea what point it was intended to make. I suppose it's all just a reflection of this horrible economy. During the booming worldwide prosperity of the nineties, generated singlehandedly by President Clinton, all these starving dumpster divers grew tired of alternating between lobster and filet mignon every evening. Now it's a neverending rotation of rice, ramen, and refuse, until the Obamassiah takes office and begins to distribute government manna.
-
OMG LU, you can't say that out loud! If the homeless who have been eating half eaten burritos straight from the can find out your SIL has been bringing dented cans to the food pantry .... there will be suits. SUITS I tell you!! Brought on by DUmmies on BEHALF of the homeless mind you but suits no less.
KC
They sell canned burritos? :hyper:
MexiCAN burritos :lmao:
-
They sell canned burritos? :hyper:
They do sell canned tamales and they aren't half bad.