The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Texacon on February 16, 2018, 01:14:43 PM
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Multiple threads at DUmmyland about this and I’m not in a position to grab any. I think a lot of them are going to need to be put on suicide watch. :rotf:
KC
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Special counsel Robert Mueller said a grand jury had indicted 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities for alleged interference in the 2016 presidential election.
:yawn:
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Rosenstein said there is no allegation in the indictment that any American was a knowing participant in the scheme, nor is there any allegation that the scheme affected the outcome of the election.
They are not going to like that.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/16/russians-indicted-in-special-counsel-robert-muellers-probe.html
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:rotf: And the "interference" began in 2013, some 2 years before Trump announced. :rotf:
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Multiple threads at DUmmyland about this and I’m not in a position to grab any. I think a lot of them are going to need to be put on suicide watch. :rotf:
KC
If the DUmbshits go on a suicide watch can I get it on PPV? :-)
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If the DUmbshits go on a suicide watch can I get it on PPV? :-)
DVR it so I can watch and pause in slow motion. :lmao:
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:nelson:
:nelson:
:nelson:
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If the DUmbshits go on a suicide watch can I get it on PPV? :-)
We have another thread here -- apparently some of the DUmmies think this is only the beginning and that the perp-walk documents against the entire Trump family and everyone who ever met DJT and shared a salad with Russian dressing will start pouring out.
Anyone with half a brain can see this is thin gruel. I read the indictment and IT reads like a JFK conspiracy novel.
Lots of supposition and almost no references to real evidence.
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If these DUmpnemotodes were any DUmmer, we would need to bring back agent Orange (heh heh). Dang, I need some anti-Viag stat!!! It hurts so good....
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After the Dems have gone to such great lengths to extend full Constitutional protections to non-citizens, it's going to be amusing to see them fight a First Amendment defense to this shit.
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We have another thread here -- apparently some of the DUmmies think this is only the beginning and that the perp-walk documents against the entire Trump family and everyone who ever met DJT and shared a salad with Russian dressing will start pouring out.
Anyone with half a brain can see this is thin gruel. I read the indictment and IT reads like a JFK conspiracy novel.
Lots of supposition and almost no references to real evidence.
Pretty much, but for me, it reminded me of the committee that didn't want to be. The PTB wants an answer. The committee hems and haws, searching for what the PTB wants to hear. Finally buzz words are strung together and a long baffling document is produced. Everyone is sick of the project and just run it up the flag pole. PTB has long since forgotten about the committee and declares mission accomplished. Bonus checks all around. :whistling:
Well, that and Mueller found a horse head in his bed. :lmao: :fuelfire: :rotf:
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What these democrat plebeians lack is a stack of Green in their Red Right hand....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrxePKps87k
Heh heh
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I'm waiting for one of the DUmmies to consider the implications of the indictment, specifically the part about foreign nationals utilizing social media to "influence elections" in violation of federal law. Many of the posters, and some of the most prominent posters, on Skin's island are foreigners, so they would seemingly be breaking the same laws. An even bigger issue is that one of the three founders and owners of DU was (and may still be) a foreign national when the site was established. And his nationality was not a secret. So it appears, based on Mueller's indictment, that Skinner, Elad and EarlG should definitely be looking at a perp walk and many of the Star Members should be contacting a lawyer about knowingly providing financial assistance to a foreign national seeking to influence federal elections. Is it time for Skinner to get "hacked" again so he can scrub his archives?
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I'm waiting for one of the DUmmies to consider the implications of the indictment, specifically the part about foreign nationals utilizing social media to "influence elections" in violation of federal law. Many of the posters, and some of the most prominent posters, on Skin's island are foreigners, so they would seemingly be breaking the same laws. An even bigger issue is that one of the three founders and owners of DU was (and may still be) a foreign national when the site was established. And his nationality was not a secret. So it appears, based on Mueller's indictment, that Skinner, Elad and EarlG should definitely be looking at a perp walk and many of the Star Members should be contacting a lawyer about knowingly providing financial assistance to a foreign national seeking to influence federal elections. Is it time for Skinner to get "hacked" again so he can scrub his archives?
Oh, excellent point! I hadn’t thought of this.
KC
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... Many of the posters, and some of the most prominent posters, on Skin's island are foreigners, so they would seemingly be breaking the same laws. ...
The Jamaican Not-Hottie, "malaise".
Is "NanceGregg" a US ex-pat living in Canuckia? Or a Canuckian who lived for a time in the US?
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I'm waiting for one of the DUmmies to consider the implications of the indictment, specifically the part about foreign nationals utilizing social media to "influence elections" in violation of federal law. Many of the posters, and some of the most prominent posters, on Skin's island are foreigners, so they would seemingly be breaking the same laws. An even bigger issue is that one of the three founders and owners of DU was (and may still be) a foreign national when the site was established. And his nationality was not a secret. So it appears, based on Mueller's indictment, that Skinner, Elad and EarlG should definitely be looking at a perp walk and many of the Star Members should be contacting a lawyer about knowingly providing financial assistance to a foreign national seeking to influence federal elections. Is it time for Skinner to get "hacked" again so he can scrub his archives?
A lot of that all-important Count One depends on showing they were actually acting as agents of a foreign government rather than just being foreigners acting for their own reasons, and whether public statements in a free-speech society are actually 'Interference in an election.' I suspect they may have to put on evidence they don't want to reveal to actually close the deal on showing that it was the actual Russian Federation government rather than just some troublemaking Russian dudes acting on their own.
The other two counts are more like garden-variety Russian gangster crimes (Wire fraud and identity theft) and only involve a relatively small subset of the Defendants, which will be much easier to handle since that kind of stuff has few novel issues and gets prosecuted all the time without the nationality of the Defendants mattering one way or the other.
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A lot of that all-important Count One depends on showing they were actually acting as agents of a foreign government rather than just being foreigners acting for their own reasons, and whether public statements in a free-speech society are actually 'Interference in an election.' I suspect they may have to put on evidence they don't want to reveal to actually close the deal on showing that it was the actual Russian Federation government rather than just some troublemaking Russian dudes acting on their own.
The other two counts are more like garden-variety Russian gangster crimes (Wire fraud and identity theft) and only involve a relatively small subset of the Defendants, which will be much easier to handle since that kind of stuff has few novel issues and gets prosecuted all the time without the nationality of the Defendants mattering one way or the other.
Ahhhh, now I understand what you were saying above!! Thanks for weighing in DAT.
KC
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I'm waiting for one of the DUmmies to consider the implications of the indictment, specifically the part about foreign nationals utilizing social media to "influence elections" in violation of federal law. Many of the posters, and some of the most prominent posters, on Skin's island are foreigners, so they would seemingly be breaking the same laws. An even bigger issue is that one of the three founders and owners of DU was (and may still be) a foreign national when the site was established. And his nationality was not a secret. So it appears, based on Mueller's indictment, that Skinner, Elad and EarlG should definitely be looking at a perp walk and many of the Star Members should be contacting a lawyer about knowingly providing financial assistance to a foreign national seeking to influence federal elections. Is it time for Skinner to get "hacked" again so he can scrub his archives?
Does Mueller Indictment Mean Clinton Campaign Can Be Indicted for Chris Steele?
https://lawandcrime.com/opinion/does-mueller-indictment-mean-clinton-campaign-can-be-indicted-for-chris-steele/
Special Counsel Robert Mueller indicted foreign citizens for trying to influence the American public about an election because those citizens did not register as a foreign agent nor record their financial expenditures to the Federal Elections Commission. By that theory, when will Mueller indict Christopher Steele, FusionGPS, PerkinsCoie, the DNC and the Clinton Campaign? Mueller’s indictment against 13 Russian trolls claimed their social media political activity was criminal because: they were foreign citizens; they tried to influence an election; and they neither registered under the Foreign Agents Registration Act nor reported their funding to the Federal Elections Commission.
First, if Mueller’s theory is correct, three things make Steele a criminal: first, he is a foreign citizen; second, he tried to influence an election, which he received payments to do (including from the FBI itself); and third, he neither registered as a foreign agent nor listed his receipts and expenditures to the Federal Election Commission. Also, according to the FBI, along the way, Steele lied…a lot, while the dossier he disseminated contained its own lies based on bought-and-paid for smears from foreign sources reliant on rumors and innuendo.
Second, if Mueller’s theory is correct, three things make FusionGPS a criminal co-conspirator: it knew Steele was a foreign citizen; it knew, and paid, Steele to influence an election; and it knew, and facilitated, Steele neither registering as a foreign agent nor reporting his funding from the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign to the Federal Election Commission.
I read the same thing.
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DUmmy "stinky':
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 05:27 PM
Star Member Stinky The Clown (58,055 posts)
So let's say the best of best cases happens and there is hard evidence of criminality . . . .
. . . . in the 2016 election and there is hard proof of vote total changes and that HRC actually won.
Then what?
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210248637
:rotf: delusional beyond belief
Pete, Nance is a New York state native that moved to Toronto with her now-deceased moonbat husband JeffR.
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The BIG problem for the DUmmies...these Russkies bought their FaceBook ads AFTER THE ELECTION!!!
From the Vice-President of FaceBook:
...I have seen all of the Russian ads and I can say very definitively that swaying the election was *NOT* the main goal,” Goldman said.
“The majority of the Russian ad spend happened AFTER the election. We shared that fact, but very few outlets have covered it because it doesn’t align with the main media narrative of Trump and the election,” he continued.
See:
http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/17/russia-ads-facebook-rob-goldman/ (http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/17/russia-ads-facebook-rob-goldman/)
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A lot of that all-important Count One depends on showing they were actually acting as agents of a foreign government rather than just being foreigners acting for their own reasons, and whether public statements in a free-speech society are actually 'Interference in an election.' I suspect they may have to put on evidence they don't want to reveal to actually close the deal on showing that it was the actual Russian Federation government rather than just some troublemaking Russian dudes acting on their own.
The other two counts are more like garden-variety Russian gangster crimes (Wire fraud and identity theft) and only involve a relatively small subset of the Defendants, which will be much easier to handle since that kind of stuff has few novel issues and gets prosecuted all the time without the nationality of the Defendants mattering one way or the other.
I agree with you that the goal of the investigation is to prove that the Russian government coordinated to affect the election and the DOJ may be hard-pressed to prove it, or may not want to publically reveal what can be proved. But, in bringing criminal charges against individuals, Mueller has basically fallen back on FEC laws which are vague on allowable behavior. It appears his approach is to treat the social media offerings as an undisclosed contribution and he doesn't need to prove that behavior was state-sponsored to be illegal. Laws about foreigners being disallowed from voting and restricting their abilities to contribute to candidates are pretty clear, but the laws about what constitutes material and compensable support to a candidate leave a lot of grey areas. For example, foreign nationals are allowed to volunteer for candidates, but only in limited roles, and foreigners are allowed to participate in partisan political events, but are supposed to only speak about issues and not specifically endorse any candidate. Many of the FEC positions are similar to the rules imposed upon churches to attempt to maintain at least the appearance of impartiality.
I was speaking tongue-in-cheek about the foreign participants on DU, but I wonder if Mueller hasn't introduced a dangerous precedent. If you believe everything in Mueller's indictment, then there was a coordinated and well-funded attempt to create discord among American voters utilizing social media. However, based on the indictment, the attempted influence was bipartisan. So, if you extrapolate all the way to the Kremlin, Putin was just trying to make an acrimonious election even worse. And, if all that can be proved, we come to the conclusion that Putin is a tool. But any interference at that level is a diplomatic, not criminal, matter.
Mueller, by pursuing criminal charges, has introduced a new grey area. The whole world is on the internet so what constitutes foreign influence? Facebook pages, Twitter and message board posts? I'm interested in seeing how this is framed going forward, because at the moment Mueller has taken the position that we are all stupid and must be protected from BS on the internet, which is concerning from a First Amendment perspective.
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Well-said, BamaMoose, but all that also brings up questions about the First Amendment Constitutionality of those FEC laws and regulations, an arena where such laws have not fared well in court in the past (Such as in the Citizens United case, or the McCain-Feingold law). And, of course, there is a world of difference between promoting one candidate and disparaging one, which could knock out any of the 'Anti-' ads and fake news right off the bat.