The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on August 11, 2008, 02:59:28 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3776741
Oh my.
Jake3463 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 01:05 PM
Original message
Why are people blindly siding with Russia right now
The situation is complex and has fault on both sides but it appears that everyone thinks Russia is behaving rightly and Georgia and the US wrongly.
Just curious.
Romulox (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hey--Anybody But Bush!
Jake3463 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Ahh John McCain syndrome that went on till this year
The enemy of my enemy is my friend...without realizing no the enemy of your enemy is still your enemy.
dbonds (1000+ posts) Journal Mon Aug-11-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. Actually we have more invested in Georgia. but...
I'm happy to not take a side. With Bushco at the helm I don't trust anything they do. Just wait this one out.
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Even if Bush tries to do the "right" thing (whatever it may be)
. . . he'll **** up royal.
And who would trust a dry drunk who's been on a weekend mo ti binge?
Bob Dobbs (562 posts) Mon Aug-11-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. Nobody is siding with Russia.
But the israeli/amerikkkan "advisors" to Georgia did start the whole thing.
Redbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. I haven't gotten that impression at all.
Most talk I have heard is of the "Never trust the Russians" variety. Georgia wants a truce and the Russians want to keep fighting.
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. Because the Bushies are siding with Georgia
It sounds like there's planty of blame to go around and too much for just either Russia or Georgia.
I'm for peace. Now. Stop fighting. Stop bombing. Act like adults.
Phoonzang (979 posts) Mon Aug-11-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. Because they defy Bush and alot of people here think the "enemy of my enemy is my friend". Those people would be fools of course. Russia is not Iran. Russia is not Iraq. Russia is not N. Korea. Unlike those three, Russia is actually an dangerous, expansionistic empire that threatens world stability. They will use their military power and actually have WMDs.
Just saying "who cares" isn't good enough in this situation. I guess the Bush admin has cried wolf so much, people don't have concern when it comes to a true "rogue nation".
14thColony Donating Member (303 posts) Mon Aug-11-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. Although war is rarely an answer to anything
traditionally history finds greater fault with the side that started it. In this case, regardless of whatever provocations there might have been, it is generally agreed that Georgia struck first against the South Ossetians, even though Russia had repeatedly explained what would happen if they decided on that course of action. Is Russian going over the top by pressing forward into Georgia-proper? Yes, but then if Saakashvili had not given them an opening, he would not now be in this position. He gambled and he lost. Sadly it's the average person on the street who gets to pay for his 'miscalculation.'
Sentinel Chicken Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. Here's the problem.
Every time the Russians have voiced disapproval of something we do, are doing or thinking of doing, we blow them off as if they were nobodies. They didn't like us signing up all the former eastern bloc satellite states into NATO. We didn't care. On just about every issue that's come up between the two of us we've listened and noted their complaints, disregarded them and then gone ahead and done as we please.
The Georgians were hoping their relationship with us would give them some leverage in dealing with the Russians. They had an internal dispute with their ethnic Russian populace and thought we would be there for them when push comes to shove.
So if it seems a little pro Russian it's not. It's more like anti American-hegemony. If we would treat these people like we aren't still trying to isolate them, surround them and make life in general difficult for them, we might not be seeing what we're seeing today.
AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. There is always two sides to every story, don't you feel it fair to attempt to understand and be aware of both?
Jake3463 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Yes
I do, however I see in alot of ways why Georgia is in the right to prevent territory from seceding and joining a hostile neighbor.
AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. I agree with you in that respect but I also believe that more is at play here than any of us regular citizens are aware of or will even be allowed to know.
JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
19. 70% for Georgia in my poll.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
And I think those 70% are blind. Russia is doing the right thing. A strong Russian presence in the Caucuses is good for the stability of the middle-east as well.
Hmmm. It looks as if 70% of the primitives are getting lax about reading their party-line book.
(a) the primitives are always for the bad guy
(b) the primitives are always for whoever's the most anti-American
(c) the primitives are always against things in America's best interests
(d) the primitives are always for whoever's the most anti-George Bush
(e) the primitives are always for brutal dictatorships, especially "left" ones.
cobalt1999 (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. Russia is far from being in the right here.
Putin is slowly but surely rebuilding Russia's influence and control over the territories of the old Soviet Union.
AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. sounds like what are doing at this moment in time in Iraq......what is the difference?
Excepting Georgia was not under the heel of a homocidal genocidal maniac who killed millions of his own people.
cobalt1999 (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Exactly
Only a hypocrite would support one and not the other.
Most people will condemn both actions.
AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. It kind of bothers me that far too many Dur's are to quick to ignore the obvious hypocrisy of our positon regarding the conflict in Georgia at the moment..but as much as it bothers me it does not suprise me, its more than obvious that not all members are as liberal as they profess to be.
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
21. Probably because Georgia shot first
South Ossetia started it when they got sick of Georgian ethnic cleansing and broke away in 1992.
If they'd just stayed put as part of Georgia and allowed Georgia to drive out and/or murder them, then everything would be lovely in the garden.
The population is 75% Russian or pro Russian. Georgia didn't want them, but they did want that section of the gas pipeline and the depot at the end of it back.
Nobody hates recognizing a superior position of a big country against a small country more than I do. However, the first 1400 civilians killed were from Georgian shelling, not Russian bombing.
Jake3463 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Actually no one knows who shot first
There were border skirmishes going back to August 1st with Georgian's being shot at.
There were border skirmishes going clear back to when franksolich was roaming around the socialist paradises of the workers and peasants more than ten years ago.
magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
28. It appears Georgia overplayed its hand
...and precipitated the events that led to Russia's involvement.
That said, there are too many players -- all in it for their own selfish ends -- for me to side with anyone but the civilians caught in the middle of this conflict.
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
31. Because of America's bloodstained history in the Cold War.
Which leads many of us to think that because America is aiding Georgia, and the proposed "missile shield" on Russia's borders is evidence a continuation of the Cold War.
Jake3463 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Umm not to be rude
But Russia has a bloodstained history in the Cold War as well. Actually Russia has a blood stained history with Chechnya right now...as do we with Iraq.
Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Aug-11-08 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
35. Because they see ourselves as the enemy and if Bush is on Georgia's side then....
They must of course choose the opposite side.
The majority of people on DU are clueless about this region.
One suspects there's actually primitives who think Georgia's at war with South Carolina or something.
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primitives siding with Russia against Georgia
It's a commie thing. If you have to ask, then you wouldn't understand.