The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on January 04, 2017, 07:43:18 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018913339
Oh my.
Hope springs eternal.
Tobin S. (9,219 posts) Tue Jan 3, 2017, 08:35 AM
Do we have any licensed clinical social workers here?
I'm considering going to graduate school for social work with the eventual aim of becoming a licensed clinical social worker. I'd be interested in hearing an thoughts and advice on the matter.
RobinA (5,273 posts) Tue Jan 3, 2017, 08:41 AM
1. Social Worker
and Licensed Professional Counselor here. Do not expect to make much money and expect to spend money to become licensed. If you go the mental health route, expect a seriously screwed up system. That said, you might be able to make a difference to one or two people's lives in your career. If you are able to tilt windmills, this is the place for you.
Tobin S. (9,219 posts) Tue Jan 3, 2017, 08:46 AM
2. I'm probably going to make 45k-50k this year as a trucker.
Can I at least do that in your line of work?
Geezuz. The Tobe's going to be making lots of money as it is. Why would he want more?
Sgent (4,411 posts) Wed Jan 4, 2017, 04:48 AM
3. As an LCSW easily
not sure about LPC.
Only LCSW's and clinical / conseling psychologists (Ph.D.) routinely bill insurance for mental health counseling. In some areas, with some insurances, LPC's are able to as well, but Medicare and Medicaid is restricted to LCSW / Ph.D.
RobinA (5,273 posts) Wed Jan 4, 2017, 08:41 AM
4. Easily?
Not in my neck of the woods, SE PA. I'm sure there are people who make that, but around here even that isn't a living wage, especially with school loans, etc. Many people work two jobs. Depends very much on the work situation. I have found one in which I make more, but almost anywhere else I would work I would make less. You will easily make less. You can probably make that much by getting hired into the right situation. And after some time. You don't emerge from school a LCSW.
Sgent (4,411 posts) Wed Jan 4, 2017, 11:17 AM
8. Oh I know
MSW's do much worse, and they have to do their clinical hours / pass exams to get become an LCSW. Clinical rotations of an MSW can be horrible in pay.
That said, locally an LCSW (not MSW) will start at 55, and after a history / patient base can easily make 65k. I've seen some as high as 90, although that was only one who saw mostly private pay patients.
PasadenaTrudy (3,657 posts) Wed Jan 4, 2017, 11:49 AM
9. I have a friend
an LCSW in private practice making $140 an hour and she is booked solid. She doesn't take ins. either. She's doing quite well!
cwydro (24,408 posts) Wed Jan 4, 2017, 09:35 AM
5. Do you have an undergraduate degree in the social sciences?
Tobin S. (9,219 posts) Wed Jan 4, 2017, 10:20 AM
6. No, but it's not necessary for the master's degree in social work.
You just have to have six classes in the social sciences from your undergraduate degree, and I've got that.
cwydro (24,408 posts) Wed Jan 4, 2017, 10:57 AM
7. Fantastic!
Go for it. You obviously have an interest in that line and would probably be very good at it.
Oh now, surely the Welsh primitive's saying that tongue-in-cheek.
DFW (22,403 posts) Wed Jan 4, 2017, 01:27 PM
10. My wife was a social worker for decades
Her specialties were (at first) working with problem teenagers from low-income industrial area families (before we had children), and then working with programs trying to place long-term unemployed people back into the workforce. She said both were about 30%-70% as far as the success-failure ratio was concerned, but it made the cases that turned out in a positive manner especially sweet. It will NEVER be financially rewarding, and no one sends out a social worker to help a hero, a happy family, a millionaire or a scholar. There will be many evenings when you come home emotionally drained. Your life's companion, if you have one, will need to show some serious understanding, because this is one job that follows you home.
It took a lot out of my wife, too, and it was no picnic. It was just her nature to want to do that as a profession. Hey, she married me, and that's a good an indication as any that she was willing to take on difficult cases. Our daughters inherited some of that part of her, too. While some people in NYC were holed up in their apartments after Hurricane Sandy, my elder daughter left the relative comfort of her Manhattan apartment to go help clean up water-damaged houses in coastal areas in the cold. Her sister, instead of seeking to clerk for some judge somewhere in after her first year of law school, went as summer help on the U.N. War Crimes Commission in Sierra Leone in West Africa, and almost died there herself (crazy kid!). Still, she returned confident she could face any obstacle and overcome it, and so far, she has been correct about that.
In all likelihood, it will either give you nerves of steel or destroy you. Which of the two depends partly on you, yourself, and partly on a lot of factors over which you will have no control whatsoever.
<<<thinks Attila Marc the Hun gave the Tobe more insight than what the Tobe needs.
TexasBushwhacker (7,993 posts) Wed Jan 4, 2017, 02:24 PM
11. My SIL is an LPC
I don't think she was ever able to make what you're making driving a truck. She said that she had tried to have a private practice but was never able to build enough of a practice to make a living. So she worked for some different non-profits, but funding was always an issue and she had been laid off a few times.
One thing that could be an issue is that women are far more likely to get counseling than men. As a woman who's gotten therapy myself, I know I prefer a female therapist and my guess is there are plenty of women who feel the same way. It may not be fair, but it is what it is.
I would also mention that while they'll take your money, I wouldn't go into debt to get an online degree. I just don't think they are as well regarded as a traditional university.
Heddi (17,678 posts) Wed Jan 4, 2017, 02:41 PM
12. I'm a Certified Case Manager/RN....
If I remember correctly, you live in a pretty small town, and had difficulty with your accounting degree getting a relatively well paying job in that field, right?
Sadly, you will probably run into the same thing regarding social workers. More places these days are hiring Case Managers vs SW's just because of the clinical ability behind the RN that isn't there with SW's. Also smaller towns tend to pay less, even in higher-paying fields like Health Care.
As a CCM/RN I make a great salary, but I also have over 10 year exp as an RN in a variety of settings (ICU, Trauma ER, Managed Care, Insurance, Urgent Care, Chronic Care, Complex patients, etc.) and have a shit-ton of certifications behind my name, and am in a MSN program now.
SW's get paid less than CCM's because of the clincial issue.
You *may* be able to get what you're getting in trucking, but if you work in a low-wage area, you're going to get low wages. Even RN's in small towns get considerably less than RN's in big towns -- my husband, who is also an RN (but not case manager) was making roughly $45/hr in Philadelphia, plus shift differentials, and took a $10/hr pay cut moving to Florida)
The company I work for has one SW for 9 CM's and the SW makes around $30k less than I do, despite being a MSW. SHe's also been in the field for less than 5 years, so that may have something to do with it. SHe is also getting another Grad degree to move out of the SW arena because SW jobs are becoming harder and harder to find (at least in what she wants to do).
Please also be aware that if you're not happy in the job you do, you'll not be doing anyone any good - not yourself and not your clients. Healthcare, especially those dealing with the psychosocial aspect of care, are physically and emotionally draining. Don't go into this for the money. You'll leave with more debt from school than you'll ever earn because you'll be that much quicker to burn out.
A friend of mine went to nursing school b/c he saw what I and my husband was making yearly without taking into account our years in the industry, our training, our specialities, etc. He quit less than 3 years after graduation and got back into graphic design because he wasn't graduating with an $80k salary in his hand. He didn't realize that the higher pay comes with hard work and the skillset, education, knowledge that commands that salary.
Really think about why you want to do this - do you have a dedication to helping people, or are you trying to get a job that will increase your salary? IF it's the first -- great, sign up. If it's the second reason, realize you may not make as much or more money than you're making now, especially in your current geographic location.
politicat (8,725 posts) Wed Jan 4, 2017, 04:09 PM
13. I was an LCP in a public health group with LCSWs
This was early in my career; I am now PsyD research psych.
At the time, the LCPs and LCSWs were considered equivalent and we had equivalent client loads and responsibilities. Also, similar salaries -- about what a first year teacher made, but year round. At least we were employees, with benefits, instead of contractors -- that's becoming a more common practice, which means that we're also expecting mental and social welfare specialists to be independent business people who are responsible for their own healthcare, SS and self-employment taxes as well as FICA.
Run from that -- unless you already know how to be I9 and have the self-discipline to drop half your income in advance tax payments and savings for your tax bill, and have the extra emotional energy to fight with your payers when they decide to delay payment because they just do, there's a good chance you will have tax and business issues. We, the LCPs and LCSWs, wanted to tag-team with each client, because a lot of public mental health issues are social work issues. That was a hard fight we never really won.
It really depends where you are and how much community support you've got. I was working in one of the deepest red counties in the country, and three of the five county commissioners truly believed that all mental health and social welfare issues could be fixed if our clients would just get right with Jesus.* They kept our budgets extremely tight so our client load was always way too high.
At least the state was good about social support, which meant we could get our clients on SNAP, Medicaid, SSDI, TANF and in line for housing. But if the county commishes had their way, we and our clients would have just died and stopped being a bother.
Provider burn-out is high in those first five years. It nearly broke me and I'm thankful I don't think I broke anyone else. It's really hard work you can't leave at the door, and it's appallingly poorly paid for the level of emotional labor expected. In places with good support, it's a good career. In places with actively hostile politics, it is a level of hell. Be willing to move.
Right now, conditions are slightly better, because ACA requires mental health care to be health care, the way it should be. (And that includes a strong percentage of social work.) But if that changes? We'll be back to the bad old days and in worse shape.
*awesome; you know, that's something that just might work, if one tries it.
Finally.....a consumer, not a producer, of social services chips in:
hunter (25,359 posts) Wed Jan 4, 2017, 06:11 PM
14. I met some fantastic social workers in the hospital...
... but they really struggled to find safe places for their patients discharged from the hospital. Sure, everyone's got to have a discharge plan, but what do you do with all the people who are homeless and unemployable and alienated from ordinary society because they have some severe mental illness?
Hell, I bounced back into the hospital after I was first discharged and I DO have family, friends, and some resources.
Years ago I burned out of teaching in a rougher big city public school because I couldn't leave the troubles of various students at school; their problems would gnaw on me nights and weekends. It was the most difficult job I ever had. Some kids have horrible home situations. I don't know how we expect them to do well in school; it's a miracle when some of them can do their homework.
My wife's sister has stuck it out for decades as a teacher in not-so-good schools, but she's some kind of saint.
The teachers who stay are flaming altruists, authoritarians, or they just don't give a damn anymore.
I know a social worker who became a parole officer. That's possibly a secure career. Yet again, he's one of those altruistic people who truly cares for everyone, wants them to succeed, even those who are extremely unpleasant and possibly dangerous.
I never learned the language of wealthier people and that may be what it takes to develop a lucrative practice. My oldest kid and my little brother are not social workers, but they enjoy good incomes because they speak that language.
I dunno. I think if the Tobe were to consult his god Guatama, the Buddha would suggest he stay in trucking.
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DUmmies know more about getting psychological help than giving it.
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Tobin S. (9,219 posts) Tue Jan 3, 2017, 08:35 AM
Do we have any licensed clinical social workers here?
I'm considering going to graduate school for social work with the eventual aim of becoming a licensed clinical social worker. I'd be interested in hearing an thoughts and advice on the matter.
So Tubbs... I guess that BA in business ain't working out for ya? We already know you are going to get canned from your current job.
I'll give you some really good advice. Instead of wasting your time on social work, go take a tax course from HR Block. Then learn the tax code inside and out. With your BA, you could probably get hired on as a temp at a small accounting firm. Then get an accounting degree to go along with your BA. Prove yourself, and they would probably hire you full time and train you to do general accounting for small business.
Just stay away from the buffets.
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Just stay away from the buffets.
What I don't get is the Tobe's greed for more more more.
<<<always thought we, and not the primitives, were the greedy money-grubbing ones, but I guess not.
He should be living the life of Riley right now, on that enormous amount he's paid; there's plenty who do pretty good on far less.
Add to that that his wife probably works, and brings in somesuch similar bacon.
And yet the guy's always having money problems.
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There was a lady where I work, she was the shipping/receiving clerk. Convinced that her job sucked and that she would be a primo social worker, she went to school at night. It took her 12 years to get a bachelors degree from a private college. She did get some grants but also took out some student loans.
So finally she graduated and a few months later gave notice because she had an offer from the state of NJ. This was about 5 years ago and she is now on her 3rd job. This job is working at a fairly large home for troubled teens, she could have got this job with just a high school education. Five years into it she is still considered entry level. And she still isn't making the money she made as a shipping clerk.
Do not misunderstand me, first I think it's impressive for anyone to go back to school and get a degree. And second, a person should do what they want to do not what they have to do. Happiness is the main thing. But I know that this individual is not happy at all and too proud to admit it.
Getting a degree isn't the thing, it's getting a useful degree that matters. My degree from 1981 isn't really needed for the job I have. But it did help me get the job in the first place, 32 years ago. 5 years ago I decided to take a math class for personal enrichment at my local community college. One thing led to another and in two weeks I start my 11th semester at night, this semester taking Organic Chemistry II. Once through that all I need is college trig and I get awarded a biology A.S. degree. This particular degree by itself is basically useless but it's been fun and challenging and I have zero debt.
Of course this has nothing to do with the OP but being on a college campus these days is very interesting. Most of the classes, all except one, an English comp class were science and math. So the young students I have as classmates are generally more motivated and academic compared to the liberal arts students. It is fun to see the general education students sweating for finals at the end of the semester. They make the deans list but still have nothing that is going to get them a good job. My daughter will get her B.S. in medical lab technology (Medical Lab Scientist) in June. Always an A student, 3rd in her HS class, she has struggled with some of the math and science classes in college. A "C" student in a STEM program works much, much harder than an "A" student in history. Some of the kids at her college call the art majors STEAM students as a joke.
My brother sent his daughter to SUNY Albany for a bachelors (MCL) then a masters in social work. My brother works at SUNY Plattsburgh and she could have gone there tuition free and lived at home but no. Anyway, a masters in social work and no job but it's only been about 6 months. Still I believe my daughter will make 2-3 times her salary at the start.
Again nothing against art and/or liberal arts majors, we do what we want to do with our lives. But I see some students kidding themselves at the college thinking a degree in anything will get them a good job. There are some hard science and math majors that struggle with employment but biotechnology, chemical technology and engineering majors generally do well around here once they graduate. In my opinion, a student with an associates degree in math stands a much better chance finding a good paying job than a student with a BA in any of the humanities or arts.
If someone really wants to make money in the medical field without going for a MD or PA, get a B.S. RN degree.
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Response to Tobin S. (Original post)
Wed Jan 4, 2017, 08:31 PM
riderinthestorm (22,836 posts)
15. Have you considered teaching? Teach For America will take you and train you to be a teacher
Your business degree and work/life skills would be highly valued imo.
From friends and colleagues, I've heard it's quite possible to earn a very good salary after the initial 2 year training period.
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Teach-for-America-Salaries-E105049.htm
Good luck
Tobes should ask poopy pam for some advice on that one.
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What I don't get is the Tobe's greed for more more more.
<<<always thought we, and not the primitives, were the greedy money-grubbing ones, but I guess not.
He should be living the life of Riley right now, on that enormous amount he's paid; there's plenty who do pretty good on far less.
Add to that that his wife probably works, and brings in somesuch similar bacon.
And yet the guy's always having money problems.
you know, I could have sworn there was a post a couple weeks ago hinting that he had gotten fired again. Didn't happen?
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He has found his Special Purpose!
(http://www.growthcalculus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/stevemartinjerk.jpeg)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018913724
Thu Jan 5, 2017, 04:48 AM
Star Member Tobin S. (9,220 posts)
I've finally found my calling...in a general way.
No, it's not gigolo. My wife is the jealous type. It's not professional beer drinker, either. That's my plan for my post-lottery-win career. Until then I'm going to have to figure out something else.
Yeah, at 44 I've finally figured out where I need to be. It turns out that I am a natural caregiver. I've been working with a therapist for the past couple of months. We did a psychological archetype inventory on me and I am a caregiver. I never really thought about that but it fits. I am empathetic and altruistic. I've been there to help my friends and family my entire life. When an uninsured friend of mine needed a down payment for hernia surgery, I gave it to him. When I was a little boy, I told my mother that I was going to grow up to be a doctor so I could take care of her. I've basically been engaging in talk therapy with an alcoholic friend of mine for the past year. I give to charity when I don't have a lot of extra money. I've saved two people's lives in my time- one an absolute stranger. If someone asks me for help, I usually help them or try at least. I'm a sucker for people who are damaged in some way.
Now I could use a hand. Here's where you guys come in. You've probably seen my licensed clinical social worker thread. I appreciate all of the responses there. It's an informative thread. But I suppose I should consider more ideas before I decide on a path to take. So we're going to have a little brainstorming session here. A good idea can come from anywhere and I've seen a lot of them on DU in my time. So given the idea that I would fit most naturally in a caregiver type of profession, what are some careers to consider?
A few details. I have a bachelor's degree in business administration from a Big Ten school, and while I have good business sense and generally understand that world, I haven't been able to land decent work in that field. I also don't think that's where my true talent lies. It's possible that I might be able to make use of that knowledge in a caregiver type of setting, however. All businesses need business people, including health care organizations and non-profits. I am also willing to return to school to get a master's degree. The bachelor's degree in business is pretty flexible in that regard. There are a number of different masters programs that I can qualify for with that degree, some of them almost totally unrelated like social work.
Other than that, I need to make 45k-50k a year. That's just to pay the bills and put 10% back for retirement- nothing extra. I suppose I could go a little lower and forgo setting back the 10% for a few years, but I can't make it on less than 40k. So I don't need a huge salary, and while I'd like to be rich that is not really my concern. I just need a roof over my head, transportation, enough to eat, and, ideally, to set a little back for when I'm old.
Your ideas? Here are a few of mine. Remember we're brainstorming here.
Occupational Therapist
Licensed Clinical Social Worker
EMT (But I'm not sure about that one. My age might disqualify me. I know police officers and firefighters have to be under a certain age when they enter those fields. I don't know if that applies to EMTs.)
Nurse (I don't know if I'd be able to afford that degree or get enough financial aid for it.)
Teacher
School Counselor
Psychologist
Teaching English as a Second Language
Your turn. Shoot!
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The Toblerone
I've been working with a therapist for the past couple of months.
It's always the way- counselors, therapists, social workers, psychologists, etc. are invariably clients who believe they are uniquely qualified for driving the bus, instead of riding.
You never see that in other professions. Who ever heard of a guy leaving his "over-40" doctor appointment and saying, "Hey, I have the finger to do that job"?
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hunter
... but what do you do with all the people who are homeless and unemployable and alienated from ordinary society because they have some severe mental illness?
You mean other than have them posting at DU?
Tobin S.
Your ideas? Here are a few of mine. Remember we're brainstorming here.
Brainstorming?? At DU!?!
That won't happen. Collectively, they couldn't even manage a good braindrizzle.
.
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:thatsright: Isn't Tobers carrying a load of student loan debt from getting his business degree? :thatsright: And he's contemplating piling on more debt to get a Master's Degree? :thatsright: In a career field that might not be very remunerative? :thatsright: And he's in his mid-40s? :thatsright:
:thatsright: :hammer: :thatsright: :hammer: :thatsright: :hammer: :thatsright: :hammer: :thatsright: :hammer: :thatsright: :hammer: :thatsright: :hammer: :thatsright: :hammer: :thatsright: :hammer: :thatsright: :hammer: :thatsright: :hammer: :thatsright: :hammer: :thatsright:
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Your turn. Shoot!
Aww, come on guys, let's help Tubbers out. I'll start:
Door stop
Overalls model
Billboard
Boat anchor
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Social workers make little more than minimum wage and are overworked.
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you know, I could have sworn there was a post a couple weeks ago hinting that he had gotten fired again. Didn't happen?
Not that I know of. Writing is on the wall though.
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Not that I know of. Writing is on the wall though.
I also remember it; FZ is correct.
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I also remember it; FZ is correct.
I remember it as well. Can't find the thread now. Started out he was happy his company was going to get him some help and hire someone for him to train to take the load off. Everyone here said he was gonna get canned.
I meant that he had not got fired yet that I know of. It is still early in the year though. :cheersmate:
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He had some sort of unhappiness that he never elaborated on. Did not state he got fired.
My advice would be to keep the CDL license and experience going, they're really in demand. This "caregiver" stuff, do on a volunteer basis on your spare time. Plenty of opportunities for that; animal shelters, nursing homes, etc. Lots.
His wife is jealous. :lmao:
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"I want to be a social worker. I really want to help people. Wait, it pays what? Well **** THAT."
:bird:
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Who does this anyway? It requires a Masters Degree from an Ivy League and it pays $16K a year. So now you have $125K in student loans, and a massive workload of people who hate you and consider you some do-gooder, meddling white ass girl.
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The well-attired aspiring social worker:
comment 3401:
https://conservativecave.com/home/index.php?topic=81827.3400
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Aww, come on guys, let's help Tubbers out. I'll start:
Door stop
Overalls model
Billboard
Boat anchor
Extra (non-speaking) for Hee Haw: The Movie.
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Extra (non-speaking) for Hee Haw: The Movie.
Usher at the Ryman Auditorium
Docent at the Corn Palace (http://cornpalace.org/#cc9b263b9d-a7e2-4e23-b747-b6d686e76be0)
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Leader of the Jr. Samples Jug Band.
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I remember it as well. Can't find the thread now. Started out he was happy his company was going to get him some help and hire someone for him to train to take the load off. Everyone here said he was gonna get canned.
I meant that he had not got fired yet that I know of. It is still early in the year though. :cheersmate:
Yea I think Karin is right. He posted a cryptic message about bad life changes or something stupid, then went dark for a couple days. I assume he got canned for sleeping on the job again. He never really did say what happened, but due to his behavior patterns, it was assumed that he got canned again.
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Not too long back he made it sound as if he was going to get fired or had been fired, then nothing.
I can't imagine the mentally challenged getting a job to help the mentally challenged.
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Obviously Toby's just selflessly trying to help satisfy the world's psychologically disturbed sector's insatiable demand for therapy from nearly unemployable loser truck driver psychological experts.
And to think that only "six classes in the social sciences from his undergraduate degree" separate him from becoming the 21st century's answer to Sigmund Freud! Who'da think it!?!
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We should give ole Tobin just a little bit of credit. He is one DUmmie that traditionally seems to actually want a job.....most of them would just come up with an excuse and give up. Other than that I cant think of much else he's got going for himself.
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We should give ole Tobin just a little bit of credit. He is one DUmmie that traditionally seems to actually want a job.....most of them would just come up with an excuse and give up. Other than that I cant think of much else he's got going for himself.
Actually, he probably keeps failing after a day or so for general incompetence. If the claims are even true.
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Actually, he probably keeps failing after a day or so for general incompetence. If the claims are even true.
That's my guess, not necessarily lazy, but totally incompetent.
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That's my guess, not necessarily lazy, but totally incompetent.
At least he tries. That, in of itself, is laudable.
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I still say there is a pretty good chance he is in an adult care facility and these are just stories he comes up with.
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Some of the craziest people you'll meet are the psychiatrists.
Growing up, it was always the school guidance counselors. Their lives were so messed up. They had constant martial problems, and were always the first at happy hour.
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We should give ole Tobin just a little bit of credit. He is one DUmmie that traditionally seems to actually want a job.....most of them would just come up with an excuse and give up. Other than that I cant think of much else he's got going for himself.
Originally I had high hopes for Tubbs. Alas I forgot that he is a dummie. Dummies and employment mix like oil and water. The two are just not suited for each other.
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He's just so susceptible to sleeping. Look what he wears. Overalls are pretty damn comfortable. Nothing to cinch your waist to remind you that you're in a working environment, not bed.
This is why overalls look so adorable on a baby, not so much with Tobes.
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He's just so susceptible to sleeping. Look what he wears. Overalls are pretty damn comfortable. Nothing to cinch your waist to remind you that you're in a working environment, not bed.
This is why overalls look so adorable on a baby, not so much with Tobes.
I, on the other hand, look fantastic in overalls... damnit.
That's my claim, and I'm stickin to it.
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Usher at the Ryman Auditorium
Screw that! I don't need any more moonbats around here.
Besides, he's almost certainly not qualified.