The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on January 04, 2017, 05:48:07 AM
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Ken Burch (44,912 posts)
A suggestion for the restoration of progressive unity:
1) No one should still be arguing that Hillary should not have been nominated, or that she was PERSONALLY responsible for the EC result;
and
2) No one should still be arguing that Bernie and his supporters are to blame for Trump's win, OR that Bernie should not have been allowed to run in the Democratic primaries;
Is it possible we could all agree to those two things?
And the first post is...
yallerdawg (8,180 posts)
1. Sure.
You stop with the (1) and it will stop reminding us of the (2).
Ken Burch (44,912 posts)
7. I myself didn't START with (1). Not ever.
I endorsed Hillary a week before the convention(the earliest decent time I could endorse her), and campaigned for her throughout the fall. I never attacked her during the fall campaign, instead merely offering a couple of respectful suggestions for doing things better)
Bernie HAD to run. There were too many people left alienated by the system for him NOT to run. Those folks had to be given some chance to cast a positive vote for what they actually wanted.
yallerdawg (8,180 posts)
8. And yet, your OP started with (1).
But that "you" I mentioned was more broad than a single individual.
I'm ready to move on, but not ready to assume we had a better alternative - and should look back to go forward.
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OrwellwasRight (4,658 posts)
4. Fine by me.
Are we allowed to talk about the primary system and how to go about picking candidates in the future? Regardless of the personal responsibility of HRC or the certainty of Bernie supporters that he "would have defeated Trump" -- shouldn't we talk about how to vet flawed candidates (knowing all candidates are flawed) in the primaries in order to pick the strongest one? about how to ensure that the establishment does not put a thumb on the scale in the primaries? about how to raise up younger leaders within the Party so that there are a wider variety of choices for the next Dem nominee than only people 70+? Or is that kind of discussion going to be interpreted as a slight against Clinton or Sanders?
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Exilednight (9,134 posts)
6. No.
Hillary didn't listen to people on the ground in three key states, nor her husband who warned her. That's on her.
If we can't admit the mistakes then no progress will be made.
Yurovsky (2,021 posts)
13. I agree but...
I blame Podesta & Mook for failing her. She ****ed up by trusting them.
(https://armedrobbery.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/ufedup1.jpg)
"You ****ed up. You trusted us."
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kcr (10,228 posts)
10. Sorry. Can't fully agree with the second point. He should of course have been allowed to run.
But his dishonest attacks on Hillary combined with his refusal to drop out when he should have contributed to the loss. He continued to attack her and it helped Trump. He still continues the attacks even now. That's what really galls me. It might be easier to move on if he didn't continue rubbing it in with the white working class nonsense. His little stunt in Kenosha? Ugh.
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bravenak (32,183 posts)
11. No. Only Democrats should run in our primaries
Gothmog (34,326 posts)
18. We need to also eliminate caucuses
Sanders was rejected by Jewish, African American and Latino votes. Sanders did not come close to getting enough votes.
http://pleasecutthecrap.com/a-message-for-hardcore-bernie-stans/
Hillary Cinton won the nomination because of democracy. She received more than 57% of Democratic votes cast. Bernie Sanders virtually only won caucuses, which are the least democratic aspect of the primary process. And most of those he won only because she decided to save her money for the General election. He won very few primaries, except for his “home states” and Michigan and his clock was cleaned in virtually every other state that mattered. Demographically, he only won white liberals. The fact that YOU think he made it close, or only lost because of “Super Delegates” is a hallmark of your delusion. Bernie Stans largely didn’t seem to notice that she reached out to you repeatedly and you bit her hand off, making you more like Republicans than you should be comfortable with.
Sanders could not win the popular vote and was in the process only due to caucuses
Bernie won Michigan?
You mean that state which is one of the 3 magic states that flipped to the GOP allowing Trump to win?
The Jippers have their own thoughts on the subject:
Pinebox (231 posts)
When Hillary supporters says primaries weren't rigged against Bernie
Show them this.
WYOMING.
Bernie won the state by 12%.
Hillary got 11 delegates.
Bernie got 7 delegates
And they have a lot more examples than that.
http://www.jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/when-hillary-supporters-says-primaries-werent-rigged-against-bernie/
Gothmog (34,326 posts)
34. Caucuses are very undemocratic
So let it be written, so let it be done!
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Rex (64,745 posts)
16. Not a chance! The greatest flame warriors on this site live and die
pushing disunity. Good luck getting those that need to the most to stop their disruption.
So...
...we'll put you down for disunity.
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Gothmog (34,326 posts)
17. No
The first request is to ask that we ignore that Jewish, African American and Latino voters rejected Sanders for very good reasons.
The second request is to ignore reality. Right now a sanders supporter is running to be DNC chair and many will oppose Ellison in large part due to Sanders actions.
I like living in the real world
Why are white people even allowed to vote?
Can anyone answer that?
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NastyRiffraff (6,191 posts)
19. Where to begin?
On #1: There are rabid Sanders supporters, many flocking back from the jackass site, who will ALWAYS treat Hillary as their personal pinata. NOBODY can stop them, and they continue to spread their poison long after the primaries were over. Just to clarify before someone jumps in with faux outrage, nobody is saying all Sanders supporters are jackass site immigrants.
#2: Bernie and his supporters were partially responsible for Trump's EC win. Many voted 3rd party (the odious Jill Stein), or a write-in, didn't vote at all, or even voted for Trump. This isn't me saying this, it comes directly from some of those supporters, BRAGGING about it. Nobody's saying they bear all of the responsibility; clearly there were many reasons for the EC disaster, including the EC itself. Of course, he should have been allowed to run; in fact, he was given special consideration by the DNC to run as a Democrat. (Personally, I believe that was a mistake by the DNC, but that's for another topic.)
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charlyvi (5,705 posts)
22. Your Bernie bias is showing there, Burch.
Last edited Sat Dec 31, 2016, 08:36 PM - Edit history (1)
Sanders is not now, nor ever has been, and probably will never be a Democrat. He should have run as an Independent. The fact that he chose to run as a Dem (and the idiots at the DNC let him), used the Dem infrastructure, then scurried back to his Independent status firewall after the primaries shows how he pretty much used the Democratic party. A weasel move that doesn't speak well to his integrity. And yet you want us to say it was all perfectly okay. It wasn't.
And it goes on like that.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512669373
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Diogenes shoots, he scores!
AngryAmish (24,779 posts)
29. For unity one suggestion: Everyone who disagrees with me shut the f**k up
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kcr (10,228 posts)
10. Sorry. Can't fully agree with the second point. He should of course have been allowed to run.
But his dishonest attacks on Hillary
May I have a list and real examples of these "dishonest" attacks? I would really think more about what lefties and other DUmmies have to say if they would not leave their blanket statements dangling. Always provide valid examples, DUmbasses. Always.
But thinking about it, there was/is so much wrong with that Clinton woman (constant criminal investigations, US ambassadors dying because of her, foreign governments buying her, etc.), why would anyone have to be dishonest about things concerning her?
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I'd apply the term "herding cats" but that would be a gross insult to cats...
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Here's an idea:
Ken Burch
A suggestion for the restoration of progressive unity:
1) It's Bush's fault;
and
2) It's always Bush's fault.
Is it possible we could all agree to those two things?
Just go back to what you mindlessly do best, primitives.
.