The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Patriot Guard Rider on November 24, 2016, 04:19:46 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512624109
realmirage (1,337 posts)
So is our message really that all Trump voters are racist and that's why we lost?
Is this our strategy? Because if it is I want to mark on my calendar the day the Democratic Party died. We used to care about people in the rust belt. We used to watch Roger and Me and feel for those people. Now all we want to do is eliminate the electoral college so we can forget them. The electoral college isn't going anywhere and in the meantime the people in the rust belt will see that we are trying to cut them out and they'll continue to vote against us. They don't care that republicans opposed the auto bailout, they care that their states are still hurting and Trump was the only one still speaking to them.
It is a reality of human nature that people vote for their economic survival first and social issues second. We can ignore that reality and the Republicans can swoop in and steal our economic message as Trump just did, and if so, let me know so I can at least know that we are finished as a party.
doc03 (17,603 posts)
3. I would say the two main things that lost the election was the two
Republican ideas Democrats picked up and ran with. NAFTA and Romneycare
JHan (314 posts)
6. Well they did vote for someone who spouted some divisive shit all year didn't they?
And it is probably a spectrum of views - to very racist to not so racist to anarchists to voting for someone versus voting AGAINST someone. -
And lying to voters - like Trump did - is not caring about them. Hillary's message and plans never pierced through Trump's noise - there's a lot of blame to go around for this, including the Clinton Campaign's strategy.
The irony is Hillary's plans would have served these folks much better. Oh well.
realmirage (1,337 posts)
11. Hillary's message to them was globalism, which is what they hate
And is what killed their jobs to start with. She took too long to turn against TPP and they didn't trust her
HINT: Hillary NEVER was against TPP. She was all for it, too much money to be made. HINT DUMMIES: Hitlary is only out for herself to make as much money as she can. She doesn't give a sh*t about America.
JHan (314 posts)
18. Between her and Sanders and Trump she was the only one who intuitively knew the challenges ahead..
Should she have lied about coal coming back? Or steel- which has been dying since the 70's?
"Globalism" killed jobs? to an extent yes, but it's not the real eater of jobs. As I said elsewhere today:
3) Trade Deals and Jobs - NAFTA's harshest critics claim that the deal cost us approximately 750,000 jobs. Ignoring for a minute the new jobs created by freer trade between US, Canada and Mexico, that may sound like a lot but the jobs made redundant due to Technology dwarfs this number. In fact, jobs started disappearing since the 1970's but let's look at this century: Between 2000-2010 , Technology made 5.6 million American jobs redundant, see here http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-griswold-globalization-and-trade-help-manufacturing-20160801-snap-story.html
Even Salon is coming round to this: http://www.salon.com/2016/04/10/technology_fcked_us_all_the_anxiety_driving_donald_trump_and_bernie_sanders_is_really_about_machines_taking_our_jobs/
"Technology continues to eat away at jobs - As manufacturing becomes "smarter", the job market will shrink. We've seen huge spikes in Productivity gains since the turn of this century, and fewer manufacturing jobs- that is the problem which not a single candidate addressed adequately because everyone was high hating on trade deals when THIS should have been the major issue of 2016. it is also why no renegotiation of trade deals or Sanders-like protectionism will stop this trend - in fact the approach of Trump and Sanders will make things worse for us globally, killing our competitiveness and locking off markets to small to medium size business owners leaving only conglomerates with the capital to offset the drawbacks- not to mention the effects of higher tariffs like price inflation. "
Add to that Right To Work laws where we're seeing jobs hop from state to state. None of this was explored this year fully because this wasn't a policy-driven election year..
Her idea to retrain and help victims of this new economy transition should have resonated but so many were "angry" and populists stoked their anger and fears, even if those populists lied or gave them false hope.
So all the issues she would have addressed - Mental health Care, Opoid Abuse, Fixing Obamacare etc, all opportunities lost because she didn't lie enough?
Star Member SickOfTheOnePct (5,146 posts)
7. No, the current message
is that we didn't really lose, that the election was stolen, so we don't need to change anything before the 2018 elections with regards to voter outreach.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't change anything. Tsunami '18 and '20.
Ace Rothstein (942 posts)
15. Hello Republican super majority.
Should I kill myself now or wait two years?
Now would be good.
PoorMonger (10 posts)
16. Not That Simple
But we do need to find a way to communicate with a mass of people who aren't interested in actual facts. This is the major problem facing the Democratic Party losing the low information voter that has now become the false information voter. Trump's economic plan doesn't help them, and it was never designed to. It's a massive tax cut for rich people like him.
It isn't as sinister as finding a way to lie to them too - but we do need to appeal to their emotions more - that is what Trump did effectively. In a world where you can't convince people with facts ( because they aren't trusted) you need to find a way to connect them with realities of how they are being impacted.
We need a lot of help finding candidates for lower office in The House & Senate that these people can relate to first and foremost. In the aftermath of a loss like this we often want to look ahead at our next possible Presidential nominee ; but that's four years out. We need help now. We must dust ourselves off and work toward 2018 - and never give up pushing back against Trump or the tide of bullshit he will assuredly unleash upon our nation.
Liberal tears are delicious.
Liberals. Disgust. Me.
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They looked at middle America and told them they have to pay for the laggards.
Gee,hard to imagine that not winning.
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Ace Rothstein (942 posts)
15. Hello Republican super majority.
Should I kill myself now or wait two years?
Now would be good.
(http://thepinksmoke.com/images/cj173.png)
KILL ME NOW! KILL ME NOW!
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oorMonger (10 posts)
16. Not That Simple
But we do need to find a way to communicate with a mass of people who aren't interested in actual facts.
You have a whole boards dedicated to just that. You are posting on one of them, RIGHT NOW! Toss in kos, huffpo and communication is no problem for you!
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Ace Rothstein (942 posts)
15. Hello Republican super majority.
Should I kill myself now or wait two years?
Anytime in the next two hours works for me!
oorMonger (10 posts)
16. Not That Simple
But we do need to find a way to communicate with a mass of people who aren't interested in actual facts.
The old "message ain't getting out" meme coupled with a dis of people that do not believe as they do.
That is a sure fire winner, dummie noob!!!!
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JHan (314 posts)
6. Well they did vote for someone who spouted some divisive shit all year didn't they?
And it is probably a spectrum of views - to very racist to not so racist to anarchists to voting for someone versus voting AGAINST someone. -
And lying to voters - like Trump did - is not caring about them. Hillary's message and plans never pierced through Trump's noise - there's a lot of blame to go around for this, including the Clinton Campaign's strategy.
The irony is Hillary's plans would have served these folks much better. Oh well.
There we went voting against our best interests again. When will we stop doing that!!!11111eLeBiNtY!!!!!
You're an idiot.
Ace Rothstein (942 posts)
15. Hello Republican super majority.
Should I kill myself now or wait two years?
Go ahead and wait the two years when they actually do attain a supermajority and you can all do a group self-euthenization.
Put a postmortem on YouTube!
oorMonger (10 posts)
16. Not That Simple
But we do need to find a way to communicate with a mass of people who aren't interested in actual facts.
:lmao: Yes. Your actual facts belonga us, f*ckface. Good luck with that, you little noob bitch.
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They looked at middle America and told them they have to pay for the laggards.
Gee,hard to imagine that not winning.
Yes. I fault our lack of ed :lmao: u :lmao: cation. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Sorry, can't type worth a f*ck reading that.....
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PoorMonger (10 posts)
16. Not That Simple
But we do need to find a way to communicate with a mass of people who aren't interested in actual facts. This is the major problem facing the Democratic Party losing the low information voter that has now become the false information voter. Trump's economic plan doesn't help them, and it was never designed to. It's a massive tax cut for rich people like him.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!!?!?!?
Democrats? Low Information? Well, welcome to reality.
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But we do need to find a way to communicate with a mass of people who aren't interested in actual facts.
There is a simple foolproof method to identify those people who aren't interested in facts:
Say something factual that people don't like to hear. They'll be the ones running top speed for their safe spaces while screaming racist/sexist/misogynist/xenophobe.
CMD
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The op had a glimmer of awareness, then it was squashed by the usual arrogance. Shut up mirage dummie! Shhhh
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" We used to watch Roger and Me and feel for those people."
Ah, 'Roger and Me.' My last semester of college, I was forced to enroll in a quite pointless liberal arts class. The first day of the class, I learned through reading the syllabus that we would be watching 'Roger and Me' one of the days of class. Seeing this, I politely asked the teacher if I could skip that day, on the grounds that I severely dislike Michael Moore and his films. The teacher responded by smugly saying, "Well, then, you should come, so you can give us YOUR thoughts on it."
He would come to regret that comment.
Over the next several weeks, I did a lot of research into the movie. I learned of all the lies Moore told in it, all the ways he twisted the truth in it (i.e. all the failed events that Moore implies Flint's Chamber of Commerce did to try and boost Flint's public image and restart its economy seemingly in the wake of the GM layoffs actually all happened at least a year or two BEFORE the GM layoffs), and all the good people he slandered and stabbed in the back (Including many people who he should have portrayed in a POSITIVE light if he actually gave a damn about helping the people of Flint, which of course he didn't) in the process in order to boost his own ego and bank account.
When the day came, during the in- class discussion after watching the film, I completely eviscerated it. When I was done, the teacher promptly changed the subject.
I'm not denying it was wrong of Roger Smith to so thoroughly screw over the people of Flint whose livelihoods depended on the GM jobs, but I'd say it was equally wrong for Moore to exploit those same people for personal gain, portray the people of Flint as ignorant hicks, and slander people who've actually done good things to help Flint's poor.
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realmirage (1,337 posts)
So is our message really that all Trump voters are racist and that's why we lost?
Is this our strategy?
Well, it's certainly shaping up to be that way. It certainly is a Deplorable strategy to call some 40% of US voters racists and misogynists, but right now it seems rather unlikely that Libs & Progs are going to look at themselves and their own bigotry as a cause of The CHILL's loss.
And what's "worse" - from an L/P POV - is that Trump is mocking L/P accusations that he is a racist and a misogynist, by picking excellent people for his Administration who also happen to be "POC" and women. And it's going to be loads o' fun watching the Ds knee-jerkingly deploy the race- and gender-traitor strategy, because unlike G. W. and G. H. W. Bush, Trump is the sort to rub Ds' noses in their racism and misogyny.
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Now would be good.
(http://thepinksmoke.com/images/cj173.png)
KILL ME NOW! KILL ME NOW!
Democwat Season!
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You have a whole boards dedicated to just that. You are posting on one of them, RIGHT NOW! Toss in kos, huffpo and communication is no problem for you!
Libs' and Progs' problem is not a failure to communicate their policies and what they, themselves are, but that voters understood their policies and saw all too clearly what The CHILL is.
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But we do need to find a way to communicate with a mass of people who aren't interested in actual facts.
There is a simple foolproof method to identify those people who aren't interested in facts:
Say something factual that people don't like to hear. They'll be the ones running top speed for their safe spaces while screaming racist/sexist/misogynist/xenophobe.
CMD
Remind me again ... who was it that denigrated (and probably Alerted on) people warning of The SHREW's problems?