The Conservative Cave

Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: jinxmchue on August 01, 2008, 04:45:38 PM

Title: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: jinxmchue on August 01, 2008, 04:45:38 PM
Should be pretty obvious what this poll is about.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Lord Undies on August 01, 2008, 04:50:03 PM
Should be pretty obvious what this poll is about.

This isn't about porn is it?
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: franksolich on August 01, 2008, 04:55:05 PM
How about "none of the above"?
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Wretched Excess on August 01, 2008, 04:58:00 PM

where can I vote for the joooooooooooooooos?
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: franksolich on August 01, 2008, 05:00:42 PM
Mine would come closest to "intelligent design," but it's not quite the same thing.

God being the First Cause of all things, and all that.

Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: asdf2231 on August 01, 2008, 05:46:20 PM
I would have voted for Directed Evolution.

But that's just how I roll.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Ptarmigan on August 01, 2008, 06:06:05 PM
I lean towards both evolution and creationism.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Duke Nukum on August 01, 2008, 07:01:52 PM
How about "none of the above"?
that's my vote.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: The Night Owl on August 01, 2008, 07:08:14 PM
I voted for evolution. I know... big shocker.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: The Night Owl on August 01, 2008, 07:09:10 PM
I would have voted for Directed Evolution.

But that's just how I roll.

The beauty of evolution is that it does not require direction.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Rebel on August 01, 2008, 07:15:54 PM
I would have voted for Directed Evolution.

But that's just how I roll.

The beauty of evolution is that it does not require direction.

Really? Then where are the Neanderthals?
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Jim on August 01, 2008, 07:58:02 PM
I would have voted for Directed Evolution.

But that's just how I roll.

The beauty of evolution is that it does not require direction.

Really? Then where are the Neanderthals?



mainly in LA but loads will be in Denver in August

(http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/02_cavemen_lg.jpg)



Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Duke Nukum on August 01, 2008, 08:05:10 PM
I would have voted for Directed Evolution.

But that's just how I roll.

The beauty of evolution is that it does not require direction.
The written word is a lie and so is evolution.  This was debunked way back in the 1970's by real scientists, scientists who knew we are heading toward a New Ice Age:

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRguZr0xCOc[/youtube]

You can tell this brave scientists is a lateral thinker from the way he dances.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Jim on August 01, 2008, 08:31:03 PM
I don't see how anyone can think all this shit was just happenstance.

There IS something greater than us, there HAS to be.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Chris_ on August 01, 2008, 08:33:14 PM
I lean toward creationism and enjoyed reading Bill Dembski's ID theories, but at the end of the day, this doesn't put any more money into my pocket or improve my life in any measurable sense, so i really don't give a shit.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: The Night Owl on August 01, 2008, 09:29:15 PM
Really? Then where are the Neanderthals?

The Neanderthals are doing commercials now.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: The Night Owl on August 01, 2008, 09:33:51 PM
I lean toward creationism and enjoyed reading Bill Dembski's ID theories, but at the end of the day, this doesn't put any more money into my pocket or improve my life in any measurable sense, so i really don't give a shit.

So, you accept Mr. Dembski's hypothesis that life on Earth may have been designed by extraterrestrials?
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: The Night Owl on August 01, 2008, 09:34:31 PM
I would have voted for Directed Evolution.

But that's just how I roll.

The beauty of evolution is that it does not require direction.
The written word is a lie and so is evolution.  This was debunked way back in the 1970's by real scientists, scientists who knew we are heading toward a New Ice Age:

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRguZr0xCOc[/youtube]

You can tell this brave scientists is a lateral thinker from the way he dances.

Outstanding!
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Duke Nukum on August 01, 2008, 09:35:50 PM
I don't see how anyone can think all this shit was just happenstance.

There IS something greater than us, there HAS to be.
I tend to be a kind of gnostic in my belief and so I believe everyone has a connection to God which means that I cannot be threatened, even when I feel like I am being threatened.  I think Jesus made this abundantly clear when he said The Father and I are one.  Everything else, including religion and evolution, is immaterial.

Frank said that God is the First Cause but God is also the only Cause, everything else is only an effect.  Therefore most of what we think of as "problem solving" or "science" is simply messing with effects and that is why it seems hopeless sometimes because it starts to seem like the effect is the cause.  Unless we join back with the First and Only Cause.  The only way to truly solve a problem is to not solve it.  Seek first the Kingdom of Heaven and all else is added on.

As the great spiritual teacher Philip K. Dick wrote, "Matter is plastic in the face of mind."  This means whatever theory people embrace and put their energy and thought into will start to appear to be true.  And things that appear to be evidence and proof will start to manifest.  But as the great poet Yeats notes, "the center cannot hold" this is because trying to stitch together effects, mere echoes of the First and Only Cause is like trying to stitch shadows together.  I mean, one can create the illusion that one has stitched shadows together by rearranging light and reflection but at the end of the day, a shadow is still nothing.

This is why every 10-20 years theories that were thought to be absolutely true are tossed out in favore of theories that were ridiculed 10-20 years earlier.

To go back to Phil, "He causes things to look different so it would appear time has passed."

This is necessary to maintain the illusion because, of course, time doesn't exist, the past, present and future all happen at once, instantaneously.  Evolution is a particularly good trick because it makes time seem so real.  But magicians have been sawing ladies in half forever and yet the ladies always emerge whole from the box.  How did the magician put them back together?  He didn't have to because they were never divided in the first place.  Nothing ever needed to evolve because it was already whole and complete in the first place.

And to be perfectly clear, because I think Phil cocked this up a bit, the First and Only Cause did not create this illusion.  We did.  God can't create anything that isn't perfect therefore we are, in fact, perfect already, it is simply that we don't think we are.  And because we have all the creative power of God behind our thoughts, we can keep this illusion going a long, long time.  Until we get tired of it and decide to return home.  Which we never left but we think we did so we manufacture the evidence that we are somewhere other than where we are.

This is why the world appears to be mad.  But something that does not exist cannot be mad.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Wretched Excess on August 01, 2008, 09:38:53 PM
hey, TNO  . . .

I would gladly joust with you regarding evolution, or lack thereof, but it's friday night . . . . and I just
don't want to get into with you, or what you getting into it with someone else would cause . ..

so, here is my ONE time deal.

stay out of our religion and/or evolution threads . . .  any other topic is okay, just not the incendiary
ones.

I would appreciate it.

Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: The Night Owl on August 01, 2008, 09:39:01 PM

And to be perfectly clear, because I think Phil cocked this up a bit, the First and Only Cause did not create this illusion.  We did.  God can't create anything that isn't perfect therefore we are, in fact, perfect already, it is simply that we don't think we are.  And because we have all the creative power of God behind our thoughts, we can keep this illusion going a long, long time.  Until we get tired of it and decide to return home.  Which we never left but we think we did so we manufacture the evidence that we are somewhere other than where we are.

This is why the world appears to be mad.  But something that does not exist cannot be mad.

Perfection does not exist. It is an entirely abstract concept with no bearing whatsoever on reality.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Chris_ on August 01, 2008, 09:43:21 PM
I lean toward creationism and enjoyed reading Bill Dembski's ID theories, but at the end of the day, this doesn't put any more money into my pocket or improve my life in any measurable sense, so i really don't give a shit.

So, you accept Mr. Dembski's hypothesis that life on Earth may have been designed by extraterrestrials?

Show me where Dembski said life on Earth may have been designed by ET's, and I might argue it with you.  I was referring to his theory of specified complexity and saw no mention of alien life forms.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Chris_ on August 01, 2008, 09:44:24 PM

And to be perfectly clear, because I think Phil cocked this up a bit, the First and Only Cause did not create this illusion.  We did.  God can't create anything that isn't perfect therefore we are, in fact, perfect already, it is simply that we don't think we are.  And because we have all the creative power of God behind our thoughts, we can keep this illusion going a long, long time.  Until we get tired of it and decide to return home.  Which we never left but we think we did so we manufacture the evidence that we are somewhere other than where we are.

This is why the world appears to be mad.  But something that does not exist cannot be mad.

Perfection does not exist.

After meeting you, I wholeheartedly agree.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: The Night Owl on August 01, 2008, 09:45:10 PM
hey, TNO  . . .

I would gladly joust with you regarding evolution, or lack thereof, but it's friday night . . . . and I just
don't want to get into with you, or what you getting into it with someone else would cause . ..

so, here is my ONE time deal.

stay out of our religion and/or evolution threads . . .  any other topic is okay, just not the incendiary
ones.

I would appreciate it.



If I have to stay out of threads about religion and evolution, I would rather not post... but no hard feelings about it.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: The Night Owl on August 01, 2008, 09:53:20 PM
Show me where Dembski said life on Earth may have been designed by ET's, and I might argue it with you.  I was referring to his theory of specified complexity and saw no mention of alien life forms.

Here (at about 2:00)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j_SD1EgcUI

...and here...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/03/17/MN141455.DTL&hw=dembski&sn=005&sc=218

Nature's diversity beyond evolution
Debate over 'intelligent design'
Carl T. Hall, Chronicle Science Writer

Sunday, March 17, 2002

Leaving fundamentalist dogma behind, a new species of anti- evolutionists has arisen under the banner of "intelligent design" -- now at the heart of a bitter debate erupting in Ohio about how science and evolution should be taught in the public schools.

...

All are said to be examples of a designer's handiwork. The question of just who -- or what -- that designer might be is usually left open, in part to avoid charges that intelligent design is little more than a stalking horse to sneak God back into the public schools.

"It could be space aliens," said William Dembski, a mathematician and philosopher at Baylor University in Texas and author of "No Free Lunch," a new book on intelligent design. "There are many possibilities."

...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/03/17/MN141455.DTL&hw=dembski&sn=005&sc=218
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Chris_ on August 01, 2008, 09:56:56 PM
So you're not offering anything concrete, just an offhand remark printed in a much larger article.  Okay.  Gotcha.

My dinner COULD have been prepared by space aliens.  After all, I didn't actually see them make it.  But the girl at the drive-thru window that took my money makes me think the answer is probably NO.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Duke Nukum on August 01, 2008, 09:59:44 PM

And to be perfectly clear, because I think Phil cocked this up a bit, the First and Only Cause did not create this illusion.  We did.  God can't create anything that isn't perfect therefore we are, in fact, perfect already, it is simply that we don't think we are.  And because we have all the creative power of God behind our thoughts, we can keep this illusion going a long, long time.  Until we get tired of it and decide to return home.  Which we never left but we think we did so we manufacture the evidence that we are somewhere other than where we are.

This is why the world appears to be mad.  But something that does not exist cannot be mad.

Perfection does not exist. It is an entirely abstract concept with no bearing whatsoever on reality.
Actually, you have it backward, it is imperfection that not only does not exist, but cannot exist.  And further, what you call reality is an illusion that has no actual bearing on real reality, which in reality the only existence I can have is in God.  I not only do I not exist here, but I cannot exist here because there is no here. But there is no point in arguing it because eventually you will see it.  Everybody does.  This is the beauty of perfection.

"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite." --William Blake

In time, eventually everybody's doors do get cleansed but in actual fact, they already are.  It's already over.  Everybody is "saved," so to speak.  This is why nothing real can be threatened.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: The Night Owl on August 01, 2008, 09:59:51 PM
So you're not offering anything concrete, just an offhand remark printed in a much larger article.  Okay.  Gotcha.

My dinner COULD have been prepared by space aliens.  After all, I didn't actually see them make it.  But the girl at the drive-thru window that took my money makes me think the answer is probably NO.

I added a link to video of an interview in which Mr. Dembski reveals his belief that "the intelligence behind things" may be of alien origin...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j_SD1EgcUI

Skip to 2:00 if you don't want to watch entire interview.

Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: The Night Owl on August 01, 2008, 10:02:43 PM
Actually, you have it backward, it is imperfection that not only does not exist, but cannot exist.  And further, what you call reality is an illusion that has no actual bearing on real reality, which in reality the only existence I can have is in God.  I not only do I not exist here, but I cannot exist here because there is no here. But there is no point in arguing it because eventually you will see it.  Everybody does.  This is the beauty of perfection.

"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite." --William Blake

In time, eventually everybody's doors do get cleansed but in actual fact, they already are.  It's already over.  Everybody is "saved," so to speak.  This is why nothing real can be threatened.

I would love to respond to your post, but I'm going to respect WE's request. Bye.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Duke Nukum on August 01, 2008, 10:03:48 PM
So you're not offering anything concrete, just an offhand remark printed in a much larger article.  Okay.  Gotcha.

My dinner COULD have been prepared by space aliens.  After all, I didn't actually see them make it.  But the girl at the drive-thru window that took my money makes me think the answer is probably NO.

I added a link to video of an interview in which Mr. Dembski reveals his belief that "the intelligence behind things" may be of alien origin...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j_SD1EgcUI
Well, if this is the theory being ridiculed today, in 10-20 years this is very likely the one to be thought of as nearly absolutely true.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Duke Nukum on August 01, 2008, 10:08:36 PM
Actually, you have it backward, it is imperfection that not only does not exist, but cannot exist.  And further, what you call reality is an illusion that has no actual bearing on real reality, which in reality the only existence I can have is in God.  I not only do I not exist here, but I cannot exist here because there is no here. But there is no point in arguing it because eventually you will see it.  Everybody does.  This is the beauty of perfection.

"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite." --William Blake

In time, eventually everybody's doors do get cleansed but in actual fact, they already are.  It's already over.  Everybody is "saved," so to speak.  This is why nothing real can be threatened.

I would love to respond to your post, but I'm going to respect WE's request. Bye.
Well played, sir.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Chris_ on August 01, 2008, 10:09:47 PM
So you're not offering anything concrete, just an offhand remark printed in a much larger article.  Okay.  Gotcha.

My dinner COULD have been prepared by space aliens.  After all, I didn't actually see them make it.  But the girl at the drive-thru window that took my money makes me think the answer is probably NO.

I added a link to video of an interview in which Mr. Dembski reveals his belief that "the intelligence behind things" may be of alien origin...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j_SD1EgcUI

Skip to 2:00 if you don't want to watch entire interview.


Another could be-what if game.  Again, no serious discussion, no specific theory.  Just another offhand remark in part of a five-minute CNN interview. Dembski referred to a "purposed, directed process".  If I had more information, I might give him credit, but a coffe-klatch morning show is not the forum for serious discussion.  I saw no specific metion of "extra terrestrial" life.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Lord Undies on August 01, 2008, 11:17:48 PM
To explain the proof that God exists to someone of the Atheist faith is like explaining the color red to a blind man or the song of a robin to one who is deaf.   
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Wretched Excess on August 02, 2008, 10:00:16 PM
hey, TNO  . . .

I would gladly joust with you regarding evolution, or lack thereof, but it's friday night . . . . and I just
don't want to get into with you, or what you getting into it with someone else would cause . ..

so, here is my ONE time deal.

stay out of our religion and/or evolution threads . . .  any other topic is okay, just not the incendiary
ones.

I would appreciate it.



If I have to stay out of threads about religion and evolution, I would rather not post... but no hard feelings about it.

our deal was that you could start any thread that you wanted, but not hijack other member's threads regarding religion.  it made the subject almost "undiscussable".

that deal is still securely in place.

Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: djones520 on August 03, 2008, 04:11:27 AM
I don't see how anyone can think all this shit was just happenstance.

There IS something greater than us, there HAS to be.

(http://www.590klbj.com/EI/T/Pics/Channels/KLBJ-AM/chuck_norris.jpg)
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: rich_t on August 03, 2008, 05:16:46 PM
I don't see how anyone can think all this shit was just happenstance.

There IS something greater than us, there HAS to be.

(http://www.590klbj.com/EI/T/Pics/Channels/KLBJ-AM/chuck_norris.jpg)


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Chris_ on August 03, 2008, 05:37:45 PM
I would have voted for Directed Evolution.

But that's just how I roll.

That's ID.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Chris_ on August 03, 2008, 05:41:21 PM
So you're not offering anything concrete, just an offhand remark printed in a much larger article.  Okay.  Gotcha.

My dinner COULD have been prepared by space aliens.  After all, I didn't actually see them make it.  But the girl at the drive-thru window that took my money makes me think the answer is probably NO.

I added a link to video of an interview in which Mr. Dembski reveals his belief that "the intelligence behind things" may be of alien origin...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j_SD1EgcUI
Well, if this is the theory being ridiculed today, in 10-20 years this is very likely the one to be thought of as nearly absolutely true.
Since ID isn't a "theory" by any and all possible scientific definitions, that is not a worry.  If it comes to that, it will be when the USA has secured its status as a 3rd world country by its embrace of willful ignorance and hopefully long, long after I am gone.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Duke Nukum on August 04, 2008, 07:06:55 PM
So you're not offering anything concrete, just an offhand remark printed in a much larger article.  Okay.  Gotcha.

My dinner COULD have been prepared by space aliens.  After all, I didn't actually see them make it.  But the girl at the drive-thru window that took my money makes me think the answer is probably NO.

I added a link to video of an interview in which Mr. Dembski reveals his belief that "the intelligence behind things" may be of alien origin...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j_SD1EgcUI
Well, if this is the theory being ridiculed today, in 10-20 years this is very likely the one to be thought of as nearly absolutely true.
Since ID isn't a "theory" by any and all possible scientific definitions, that is not a worry.  If it comes to that, it will be when the USA has secured its status as a 3rd world country by its embrace of willful ignorance and hopefully long, long after I am gone.

Of course, I was being facetious. Although one can't go wrong betting on all the theories being ridiculed today, that is the track record.  So you're only right 80% of the time, so what?

Anyway, almost everyone willfully embraces ignorance on some level.  That's why we're all here.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Chris_ on August 04, 2008, 07:13:19 PM
So you're not offering anything concrete, just an offhand remark printed in a much larger article.  Okay.  Gotcha.

My dinner COULD have been prepared by space aliens.  After all, I didn't actually see them make it.  But the girl at the drive-thru window that took my money makes me think the answer is probably NO.

I added a link to video of an interview in which Mr. Dembski reveals his belief that "the intelligence behind things" may be of alien origin...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j_SD1EgcUI
Well, if this is the theory being ridiculed today, in 10-20 years this is very likely the one to be thought of as nearly absolutely true.
Since ID isn't a "theory" by any and all possible scientific definitions, that is not a worry.  If it comes to that, it will be when the USA has secured its status as a 3rd world country by its embrace of willful ignorance and hopefully long, long after I am gone.

Of course, I was being facetious. Although one can't go wrong betting on all the theories being ridiculed today, that is the track record.  So you're only right 80% of the time, so what?

Anyway, almost everyone willfully embraces ignorance on some level.  That's why we're all here.

Some willful ignorance is worse than others.

But I understood your post -- I was using it as a jump point to make an important point.  I truly fear for the future of the USA.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Duke Nukum on August 04, 2008, 08:02:36 PM
So you're not offering anything concrete, just an offhand remark printed in a much larger article.  Okay.  Gotcha.

My dinner COULD have been prepared by space aliens.  After all, I didn't actually see them make it.  But the girl at the drive-thru window that took my money makes me think the answer is probably NO.

I added a link to video of an interview in which Mr. Dembski reveals his belief that "the intelligence behind things" may be of alien origin...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j_SD1EgcUI
Well, if this is the theory being ridiculed today, in 10-20 years this is very likely the one to be thought of as nearly absolutely true.
Since ID isn't a "theory" by any and all possible scientific definitions, that is not a worry.  If it comes to that, it will be when the USA has secured its status as a 3rd world country by its embrace of willful ignorance and hopefully long, long after I am gone.

Of course, I was being facetious. Although one can't go wrong betting on all the theories being ridiculed today, that is the track record.  So you're only right 80% of the time, so what?

Anyway, almost everyone willfully embraces ignorance on some level.  That's why we're all here.

Some willful ignorance is worse than others.

But I understood your post -- I was using it as a jump point to make an important point.  I truly fear for the future of the USA.

Ah, don't worry, everything works out just the way it should.  It is actually impossible to fail, at most only suffering can be prolonged.

The very good news is, in spite of how it looks sometimes, there has never been a better time to be alive and this trend will continue, in spite of relative set backs from time to time.

Even though I worry sometimes, I know there is nothing to worry about ever.  One of the tricks is to focus on fulfilling your own goals and desires and worry less about what others appear to be doing. We have very little control over the thoughts and actions of others anyway and sometimes trying to argue the point only cements them in their point of view and if they actually are in error it only prolongs it for them.

Debate seems like something that, instead of trying to win, it should be something to elucidate both points of view.  Because everybody holds beliefs and opinions for what seems like a very good reason to them and it is usually an emotion based reason and very few of us can overcome our own emotional perspective via detached and logical argument.  One thing studying the Market has taught me is everything is about emotion, even if on some emotional level we like to think our belief is based on empirical fact, it is simply impossible to separate what we think of as "independent reality" from ourself.  And most of what we call the world is nothing more than what we expect to see, it is projection.  So, since we create it psychologically, it is very difficult to view it in a detached manner.  Even our impersonal scientific instruments that can't lie are made by humans so therefore, they are perfectly capable of lying.  So if one looks at the world with a worried eye, that worry will be reflected back to the so-called observer.  If one devises an impersonal instrument to measure the worry, it will report back things to worry about.

So, one way to absolutely guarantee fewer things to worry about is to worry less while expecting things to work out more.  It is really simple and that is one thing about a highly educated population, they expect everything to be complicated and so very seldom stumble upon solutions.  People can't just choose to be happy, they have to be led by an elite who propose pointless legislation based on expensive and largely erroneous and over-complicated scientific studies, and then the laws have to be debated and changed from what the  erroneous and over-complicated scientific studies said to do in the first place.  And then the laws pass and the people are more miserable then when the process started.

This is why it is so often that the children's nursery rhyme can hold more truth then decades long, peer reviewed scientific studies.  Just choose to be happy and everything else tends to work itself out.

This is exactly why, the stupider it looks, the more important it probably is.  Because it hasn't had all the truth and beauty over-analyzed out of it.

The Universe is nothing more or less than one giant, over-complicated conspiracy theory made to put our attention on the "out there" rather than the inner space where our true power actually resides.  And it works so well at what it was designed to do, we all fall for it.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on August 05, 2008, 09:28:54 AM
I'm in the "Don't really care" group.  No matter what, the time scale involved relative to my lifespan makes it about as relevant to me as "How long ago were South America and Africa connected?"  Kind of interesting, but not important on a personal level.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Chris_ on August 05, 2008, 10:32:55 AM
How come there's no "White folk was created in a lab on the mother ship to test and temper the pure, black race which had been beamed down in their perfected, celestial glory..." option?

What a racist poll...

 :naughty: :popcorn: :rotf: :tongue: :fuelfire:
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: MrsSmith on August 05, 2008, 09:29:19 PM
God created everything with the ability to adapt to environment.  Everything He made is intelligently designed.  Each "kind" is programmed to "evolve" within the original "blueprints."  Hence things like the proliferation of canines since Noah's time.  So, my answer would have to be...all 3.   :-)
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Chris_ on August 05, 2008, 09:35:51 PM
I'm in the "Don't really care" group.  No matter what, the time scale involved relative to my lifespan makes it about as relevant to me as "How long ago were South America and Africa connected?"  Kind of interesting, but not important on a personal level.
Until you realize that understanding TToE is a fundamental part of most medical research and all drug research.  Miracle drugs like Metformin/Glucophage are directly linked to understanding evolutionary history and processes.  If you ever get Diabetes or any other disease that can be treated using drugs, you will very much care about TToE indeed.

Would you want your pilot not to understand about wind currents because he can't see them and therefore they are a result of faith/belief?
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Chris_ on August 05, 2008, 09:38:12 PM
God created everything with the ability to adapt to environment.  Everything He made is intelligently designed.  Each "kind" is programmed to "evolve" within the original "blueprints."  Hence things like the proliferation of canines since Noah's time.  So, my answer would have to be...all 3.   :-)
There is no such thing as a "kind."  God may have started the whole process (and I believe he did), but he did it with astounding care by instantiating rules by which the Universe operates.

I am not quite sure what you mean about canines, but canis domesticus (and felinus domesticus) are certainly great examples of TToE before our eyes.

And, of course, there is zero scientific evidence for a worldwide flood.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: rich_t on August 05, 2008, 10:17:11 PM
[qoute]Would you want your pilot not to understand about wind currents because he can't see them and therefore they are a result of faith/belief?[/quote]

Things like wind currents can be measured with equipment. 

TToE is a whole different kettle of fish.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Chris_ on August 05, 2008, 11:42:31 PM
Quote
Would you want your pilot not to understand about wind currents because he can't see them and therefore they are a result of faith/belief?

Things like wind currents can be measured with equipment. 

TToE is a whole different kettle of fish.

No, it isn't.

TToE is as substantiated as Physics, Chemistry, Astronomy and all other modern scientific fields of study.

Did you know the Theory of Gravity is much less understood than the Theory of Evolution?

My analogy holds -- pilots not understanding wind are the same as doctors not understanding TToE.

Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on August 06, 2008, 09:17:32 AM
I'm in the "Don't really care" group.  No matter what, the time scale involved relative to my lifespan makes it about as relevant to me as "How long ago were South America and Africa connected?"  Kind of interesting, but not important on a personal level.
Until you realize that understanding TToE is a fundamental part of most medical research and all drug research.  Miracle drugs like Metformin/Glucophage are directly linked to understanding evolutionary history and processes.  If you ever get Diabetes or any other disease that can be treated using drugs, you will very much care about TToE indeed.

Would you want your pilot not to understand about wind currents because he can't see them and therefore they are a result of faith/belief?

Your idea of relevance differs from mine.  The developments you're talking about are actually based on genetic selection with some minor induced mutations and gene splicing technology, which in the first and second instances are only components of TToE as a whole and in the third case something else entirely.  It would matter a lot to me if I were a medical researcher, or the pilot instead of a passenger in your example, but as an end user all I care about are results.  If the pilot prays to Thor and it works better than aerodynamics as we understand them, that's great with me, the whole aircrew can start wearing hammers.  Ditto if the shaman's results beat the doctor's (which they do in the case of mental health treatment, though of course not in physical medicine).

For the record, my personal opinion is that TToE has some serious holes in it when it comes to long-term issues like speciation, but in general makes a whole lot more sense than Creationism or ID, which as most Evangelicals espouse them strike me as on the same logical plane as belief in the Elder Gods of Olympus or Asgaard.

Was there an original Prime Cause?  I don't know, but it sure seems very possible to me.  What would impel the Big Bang in the first place after all?  But if the truth or falsity of other people's belief systems it is not relevant to my actions, or decisions on courses of action, I really don't care if they sincerely believe everything in the world flows from the good wishes of The Goat With A Thousand Young who must be placated with prayer every hour, as long as they get out of my way while they're doing it.   
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: MrsSmith on August 06, 2008, 06:22:08 PM
God created everything with the ability to adapt to environment.  Everything He made is intelligently designed.  Each "kind" is programmed to "evolve" within the original "blueprints."  Hence things like the proliferation of canines since Noah's time.  So, my answer would have to be...all 3.   :-)
There is no such thing as a "kind."  God may have started the whole process (and I believe he did), but he did it with astounding care by instantiating rules by which the Universe operates.

I am not quite sure what you mean about canines, but canis domesticus (and felinus domesticus) are certainly great examples of TToE before our eyes.

And, of course, there is zero scientific evidence for a worldwide flood.

We currently assign every creature to a "kind," though we use different terminology.   ::) 

Yes, canines have evolved pretty dramatically since the originals stepped off the Ark.  Of course, they have also evolved under God's rules, since all canines can still breed with any other canine of the proper sex. 

As most of the fossils studied today were created during the flood, there is certainly much more that zero scientific evidence.  Eventually, we may learn enough to correctly interpret the evidence.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: djones520 on August 06, 2008, 07:13:04 PM
God created everything with the ability to adapt to environment.  Everything He made is intelligently designed.  Each "kind" is programmed to "evolve" within the original "blueprints."  Hence things like the proliferation of canines since Noah's time.  So, my answer would have to be...all 3.   :-)
There is no such thing as a "kind."  God may have started the whole process (and I believe he did), but he did it with astounding care by instantiating rules by which the Universe operates.

I am not quite sure what you mean about canines, but canis domesticus (and felinus domesticus) are certainly great examples of TToE before our eyes.

And, of course, there is zero scientific evidence for a worldwide flood.

We currently assign every creature to a "kind," though we use different terminology.   ::) 

Yes, canines have evolved pretty dramatically since the originals stepped off the Ark.  Of course, they have also evolved under God's rules, since all canines can still breed with any other canine of the proper sex. 

As most of the fossils studied today were created during the flood, there is certainly much more that zero scientific evidence.  Eventually, we may learn enough to correctly interpret the evidence.

Inuits and and Kenyans look drastically differant.  Both are two differant races that adapted (evolved) to their environments, and can still produce viable offspring.  Some of todays breeds of dogs are jsut that as well, most though where selectively breed (not evolved) to the characteristics that they currently have. 

And how where all of those fossils that we study today displaced at hundreds of differant levels of geological strata, from a single flood?
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: MrsSmith on August 06, 2008, 09:55:34 PM
God created everything with the ability to adapt to environment.  Everything He made is intelligently designed.  Each "kind" is programmed to "evolve" within the original "blueprints."  Hence things like the proliferation of canines since Noah's time.  So, my answer would have to be...all 3.   :-)
There is no such thing as a "kind."  God may have started the whole process (and I believe he did), but he did it with astounding care by instantiating rules by which the Universe operates.

I am not quite sure what you mean about canines, but canis domesticus (and felinus domesticus) are certainly great examples of TToE before our eyes.

And, of course, there is zero scientific evidence for a worldwide flood.

We currently assign every creature to a "kind," though we use different terminology.   ::) 

Yes, canines have evolved pretty dramatically since the originals stepped off the Ark.  Of course, they have also evolved under God's rules, since all canines can still breed with any other canine of the proper sex. 

As most of the fossils studied today were created during the flood, there is certainly much more that zero scientific evidence.  Eventually, we may learn enough to correctly interpret the evidence.

Inuits and and Kenyans look drastically differant.  Both are two differant races that adapted (evolved) to their environments, and can still produce viable offspring.  Some of todays breeds of dogs are jsut that as well, most though where selectively breed (not evolved) to the characteristics that they currently have. 

And how where all of those fossils that we study today displaced at hundreds of differant levels of geological strata, from a single flood?

Have you read Genesis?  It descibes something far more "earth-shaking" than a normal flood.  The tsunami a couple years ago actually shook the whole earth.  The flood was far more water, far more power, far more destruction.  The first land appeared after nearly a year...and that was the top of a mountain.  When Noah got back to a place he recognized, 2 of the 4 major rivers were gone.  Given that kind of pressure, destruction, and time with water upon the earth, naturally the earth would settle in strata full of fossils.  Everyone acknowledges that it takes very special circumstances to create fossils...in the normal turn of events, dead creatures rot and disappear, they don't become fossils.  The flood is the best explanation for the majority of the fossils created.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: The Night Owl on January 24, 2010, 05:46:32 PM
God created everything with the ability to adapt to environment.  Everything He made is intelligently designed.  Each "kind" is programmed to "evolve" within the original "blueprints."  Hence things like the proliferation of canines since Noah's time.  So, my answer would have to be...all 3.   :-)

Do you believe that the universe was intelligently designed with humanity in mind or do you believe that it was designed for some other purpose/purposes?
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: The Village Idiot on January 24, 2010, 07:50:13 PM
If by "creationsm" you mean the world is 6,000 years old or something, then no.
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Chris_ on January 24, 2010, 08:13:22 PM
There is no way I'm getting into this thread.......I gotta keep telling myself that.........

doc
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: Aaron Burr on January 24, 2010, 08:53:09 PM
Yeah Doc. Where the fug is the "I love Puppies" option?
Title: Re: Simple poll: Evolution, Creationism or ID?
Post by: JohnnyReb on January 25, 2010, 06:34:08 AM
Render unto the preacher that theory which is his.
And unto the professor that theory which is his.
And unto thy ownself be true.