The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: I_B_Perky on May 03, 2016, 08:13:09 PM
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I won't bring over the comments, just link to the threads. Pressed for time.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141436220 (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141436220)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027801432 (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027801432)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511893267 (http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511893267)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511893260 (http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511893260)
Damn! Wished I had time to bring over the comments. Have fun folks! Gotta run.
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Hillary shit her pants tonight.
Lost to Bernie.
Trump is coming after her bogus status.
I'll not go out on a limb and say Trump beats her very badly. New York goes Trump...Kalifornia, might just be.
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Hillary shit her pants tonight.
Lost to Bernie.
Trump is coming after her bogus status.
I'll not go out on a limb and say Trump beats her very badly. New York goes Trump...Kalifornia, might just be.
I'd imagine that there will be lots of hand wringing... Crazy Uncle Bernie wins Indiana, Cankles still gets 70% of delegates. Something like that.
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So are we supposed to hold our noses and pretend that Trump is anything less than the lunatic that he presents himself as? I'm done.
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It's not just the DUMP rejoicing. It's some mouth breathing window licking morons that are allegedly Conservatives doing the same thing.
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It's not just the DUMP rejoicing. It's some mouth breathing window licking morons that are allegedly Conservatives doing the same thing.
Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk
So our choices are now the corrupt wife of a former President or a man with a fourth-grade speaking level who has given her thousands of dollars.
Jeff Sessions is going to be working overtime.
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So our choices are now the corrupt wife of a former President or a man with a fourth-grade speaking level who has given her thousands of dollars.
Jeff Sessions is going to be working overtime.
That's our choices in a nutshell.
Gives you hope for America huh?
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Cruz was the biggest danger this country faced.
Trump has ZERO chance in the general election even if my dog won the Democratic nomination.
Trump will absolutely destroy the GOP chances in this election cycle (which is why the GOP professionals were so worried).
It's an absolute disaster for the GOP and a gift to the Democratic Party.
Rejoice!
I am afraid this DUer pretty much pegs it. Trump has killed this election.
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I am afraid this DUer pretty much pegs it. Trump has killed this election.
It's almost like he did it on purpose.
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I was so hoping for a glimmer of light in Trump's speech last night but it sounded like he was on the sauce. Cruz's suspension speech was so much more encouraging. Unfortunately I see this as the light fading in the once great Republic. The only thing that can reign in the federal govt now is a states convention to amend the constitution.
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So are we supposed to hold our noses and pretend that Trump is anything less than the lunatic that he presents himself as? I'm done.
Me too.
The thing that surprises me most of all is that my sister, who is a very intelligent woman, has fallen for his bullshit. Her and I have gotten into several verbal spars over him. And she, like so many of his supporters, just says "So many people like him, there must be SOMETHING there". I tell her to think of it the other way...so many people HATE him, there must be something there. She refuses to see it, and I do not understand it at all.
UGH.
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So our choices are now the corrupt wife of a former President or a man with a fourth-grade speaking level who has given her thousands of dollars.
Jeff Sessions is going to be working overtime.
I'd have said, "A greedy, corrupt, inept woman vs. an unprincipled, demagoguing, government entrepreneur." But we're both on the infield of the same ballpark.
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Me too.
The thing that surprises me most of all is that my sister, who is a very intelligent woman, has fallen for his bullshit. Her and I have gotten into several verbal spars over him. And she, like so many of his supporters, just says "So many people like him, there must be SOMETHING there". I tell her to think of it the other way...so many people HATE him, there must be something there. She refuses to see it, and I do not understand it at all.
UGH.
Some people go beyond advocating for a particular candidate into a sort of personality cult: Perotistas in 1992 and 1996, FredHeads and the Cult of Obama in 2008, Ronulans in 2012, and this year we have Berniebots and Trumplings. Such folk can't and won't see any flaws in their candidate.
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Some people go beyond advocating for a particular candidate into a sort of personality cult: Perotistas in 1992 and 1996, FredHeads and the Cult of Obama in 2008, Ronulans in 2012, and this year we have Berniebots and Trumplings. Such folk can't and won't see any flaws in their candidate.
I've used the phrase Cult of Personality a few times in my discussions with her. I compared Trump's followers to Obama's in 2008 & 2012. She just can't (or won't) see it.
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As to DU-folk, they probably perceived Cruz as the more substantial, and therefore tougher candidate for their D-Candidate-of-Choice. I'd agree with the premise, that Cruz is more substantial. BUT Trump got where he is as of last evening because those who hate him vastly underestimated him and Trump PLAYED them. To what degree that continues to be true, I don't know, but DU-folks' attitude and Tsaritsa CHILL's native arrogance and condescension bode well for Trump.
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So are we supposed to hold our noses and pretend that Trump is anything less than the lunatic that he presents himself as? I'm done.
Yea I think I'm checking out too. We had a shot at reversing this string of debauchery... now we get what we deserve. Time to own it; we are now outnumbered and my biggest fear just may come to reality... the court will be lost for decades now.
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As to DU-folk, they probably perceived Cruz as the more substantial, and therefore tougher candidate for their D-Candidate-of-Choice. I'd agree with the premise, that Cruz is more substantial. BUT Trump got where he is as of last evening because those who hate him vastly underestimated him and Trump PLAYED them. To what degree that continues to be true, I don't know, but DU-folks' attitude and Tsaritsa CHILL's native arrogance and condescension bode well for Trump.
I agree 100%. A lot of people have underestimated Trump in the last 30 or so years, to their detriment. I think that HilLIARy's people will be next. The various people who are trying to keep the Dems from doing the same (Dave "Mudcat" Saunders, for one) are probably shouting at brick walls, expecting the walls to listen. All they will be doing is this:
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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One thing is clear; the Republicans won't ever allow another conservative candidate to get close again. Cruz was it. They will allow an "establishment conservative" like Jeb, or Rubio, or Kasich, or Christie, etc... But an establishment conservative isn't a conservative, not when you cut down to the bone and see what they really stand for. They were all for amnesty in one form or another, none were too upset about obamacare (Kasich even embraced it in Ohio), they aren't going to do anything about entitlements, they certainly could care less about social conservatism. The list goes on.
It's done. If you're a true conservative in this country, on the National level it's over. In certain areas of the country we can still vote for them in local and State positions. But as prez, won't happen. People have neglected to learn the lessons of why the Pilgrims came over and why the Founders and people at the time were willing to fight for individual freedom and reject the collective of strong gov't rule.
Ah well, nothing left to do but loot the treasury.
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I am afraid this DUer pretty much pegs it. Trump has killed this election.
Sadly... I agree. I'll vote for Trump, but I think he's gonna get destroyed by Hillary. Our only hope is if the Bernouts are so angry they vote third party.
This was such an incredible opportunity... and to think we cast aside a true, constitutional conservative like Cruz, for the likes of Trump.... truly saddens me.
If Trump does what he says (wall, bringing jobs back, etc.) then I'm fine w/ him... but I just don't see him fulfilling even a few of his promises.
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I'd imagine that there will be lots of hand wringing... Crazy Uncle Bernie wins Indiana, Cankles still gets 70% of delegates. Something like that.
Democratic socialism in action!
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It is in no possible way the choice I want but am going to keep a somewhat positive attitude about everything.
Anxiety over something is often far greater or worse then ultimately dealing with the reality of it.
I am not certain that Trump will lose the GE nor am I certain he will do decent or awful as POTUS.
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So you guys are all going to sit home?
I think the cesspool of the DUmp has gotten to you.
Trump, a multi-billionaire is stupid?
Really?
But you all got behind a democrat named McCain in 08? Then you got behind a leftist that was the designer for Obama Care in 12. Yeah, I'll take Trump over your opinions. Look the establishment is scared of Trump. Not because he will lose but because he will win. Even if you children take your ball and go home.
On edit: multi was mulch, damn auto correct and my lack of proof reading.
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It is in no possible way the choice I want but am going to keep a somewhat positive attitude about everything.
Anxiety over something is often far greater or worse then ultimately dealing with the reality of it.
I am not certain that Trump will lose the GE nor am I certain he will do decent or awful as POTUS.
At least one conservative agrees with you (as do I).
http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/03/gingrich-trump-may-turn-out-to-be-the-most-effective-anti-left-leader-in-our-lifetime/
What we get with Trump is a crapshoot. I'll take my chances over HilLIARy's certain hostility towards people such as my wife and I.
Everyone who thinks that HilLIARy has it 'in the bag' ignores several facts. First and foremost is the enthusiasm factor--there've been upwards of 4.5 million more voters in the Republican primaries as the Democrat primaries. Second is the fact that she's pledged (in not so many words) to continue Obama's policies on such things as the EPA and its' employment-killing regulations. There's a lot of coal miners who are pissed at HilLIARy about her stated desire to kill the coal-mining industry. They're in Pennsylvania, Virginia, West Virginia, Indiana, Tennessee, Ohio, and other states that are crucial to anyone's Presidential election chances. Third, Trump is rather popular in the Tri-State area of NY, NJ, and CT. He very likely puts NJ and NY "in play" for the general election, and because of HilLIARy's antipathy towards coal mining, one can add PA to that. He supposedly puts MA in play as well, though I haven't seen anything yet to indicate that. Yes, there's all sorts of morality issues that have to be dealt with. But, everyone can change--didn't Saul have a 'moment' on the road to Tarsus? Fourth, HilLIARy is a horrible candidate. She has the charisma of a rock thrown through a plate-glass picture window in your living room. Fifth is the FBI and their investigation into the 'Clintonmail' illegal, unsecured server. We don't know how that's going and likely won't know until James Comey decides to let the world know about the results of the investigation. But at the rate that it's going . . . Hell, we don't even know that little fact.
I think that Trump will win, but it may be closer than he thinks it'll be.
Whoever is the next President, they are going to have to deal with a horribly-divided country. Think Rwanda in early 1994, before the civil war got going . . .
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So you guys are all going to sit home?
I think the cesspool of the DUmp has gotten to you.
Trump, a mulch-billionaire is stupid?
Really?
But you all got behind a democrat named McCain in 08? Then you got behind a leftist that was the designer for Obama Care in 12. Yeah, I'll take Trump over your opinions. Look the establishment is scared of Trump. Not because he will lose but because he will win. Even if you children take your ball andd go home.
There is little to no difference between Donny and Hillary in the important policy issues facing this country.
Vote for Trump...don't vote for Trump...either way we get a Liberal...again in the White House.
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Hillary shit her pants tonight.
Lost to Bernie.
Trump is coming after her bogus status.
I'll not go out on a limb and say Trump beats her very badly. New York goes Trump...Kalifornia, might just be.
I will be watching Kalifornication to see how wide the spread is between Hillary / Bernie / Trump. If Hillary isn't viable to win Kali then it could be Katie bar the door this fall. Will they vote for the Republican who sounds like a Democrat or the Democrat who sounds like a Republican or just the plain ole Socialist who pretends to be a Democrat? Inquiring minds and all that.
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there've been upwards of 4.5 million more voters in the Republican primaries as the Democrat primaries.
Half of those were democrats in those stupid "open" primaries, voting to sabotage the Republican party.
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Like Carl and BSS, I'm going to stay positive here. I am not as convinced as some of you that this is anything close to a disaster.
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Half of those were democrats in those stupid "open" primaries, voting to sabotage the Republican party.
Agreed.
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Say what you want about Trump. I break it down this way: The Hitlery machine will crush Bernie because he has no 'In' with the superdelegates and the oligarchs that actually run the party have no use for him. She will be the Dem candidate. I would vote for Satan rather than see that vile witch get back in the White House, since Satan at least has superior ethics and values compared to her. I don't like Trump (He was never even in my top three, until the top three came down to 'Just three,' and I like Kasich even less but for different reasons), but he's not as bad as Satan, and most of the extreme statements he's made are essentially 'Initial bargaining position' BS straight out of the 'Art of the Deal' mentality. Further, all the talk about 'I'm the only one who can defeat her' stuff from Cruz and Kasich is garbage because the numbers now don't matter, the numbers in November do, and May isn't November.
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Like Carl and BSS, I'm going to stay positive here. I am not as convinced as some of you that this is anything close to a disaster.
I'm taking my usual mellow, laid-back, nonchalant attitude over what many seem to consider an issue of Great Gravity.
Anything can happen. And usually does. And so this should be a good show.
Trump wasn't my first choice--he was more like, maybe fifth or sixth--but as soon as he's the official R candidate, he becomes my first choice, my only choice.
I suggest all those uptight about Trump sit back, relax, and get mellow; just as some people aren't as good as one hopes, other people aren't as bad as one fears.
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No matter how bitter the pill may seem, there is this thing called reality. The reality is that the media and the democrats would have unleashed the attack dogs from hell on Cruz. And the republicans would have sat there and let it happen. And then we would have Hillary.
Trump, even with all his warts is going to tear Hillary into very small bite sized pieces. The reason we know that he will do this is he has already vanquished 16 opponents, many of them seasoned elected officials. And he did it without spending 1/10 of the amount of money they spent. And with the media calling him Hitler. And he doesn't care what they call him, it just bounces off him.
I don't like everything about Trump but he is 10 times better than Hillary and he will get the economy going again.
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You know, as I mentioned, Trump was my fifth or sixth choice at the beginning of the campaign season.
Going way back, I thought rather highly of John Boehner and/or John Kasich, based upon how they were during the early 1990s. But then Boehner turned Democrat Lite, and Kasich turned silly.
I thought Mitt Romney deserved a second chance (this was before he got unhinged and attacked another Republican), and especially since the Democrats had vetted and slandered him so much in 2012, I figured he'd win because there wasn't any new mud to splatter on him.
Barring that, I rather liked Paul Ryan until like Boehner, he turned Democrat Lite.
With the Democrats in the White House, the Republicans are supposed to be the party in opposition. I dunno where people get this idea that partisanship is "bad;" or at least it is when Republicans but not Democrats do it.
Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, all these other guys, were suddenly adopting Democrat stances on immigration, crime, taxes, national security. My God, it was a wondrous thing to watch, all these about-faces. Who the Hell was representing Republicans and Republican values any more?
Well, it wasn't Donald Trump, but as he's the last man standing, I'll stand with him.
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In all sincerity and happiness I am glad to see you here DAT.
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In all sincerity and happiness I am glad to see you here DAT.
Thanks, friend. Had to take a break until the primary madness ran its course.
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.........I thought Mitt Romney deserved a second chance (this was before he got unhinged and attacked another Republican), and especially since the Democrats had vetted and slandered him so much in 2012, I figured he'd win because there wasn't any new mud to splatter on him.....
Maybe I'm dumb but I really cannot see where Trump damages the Republican Party any more than Romney did.
But Frank I agree with all of what you are saying and I actually have hope that Trump will turn out to be much better than what is presently expected. We wanted security at the boarder and we want something done with runaway spending and excessive regulation. If Trump delivers then I'm OK with him.
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I will be watching Kalifornication to see how wide the spread is between Hillary / Bernie / Trump. If Hillary isn't viable to win Kali then it could be Katie bar the door this fall. Will they vote for the Republican who sounds like a Democrat or the Democrat who sounds like a Republican or just the plain ole Socialist who pretends to be a Democrat? Inquiring minds and all that.
I live in moonbat central. Have not seen one sign/bumper sticker for Hillary. I have seen lots of Bernie signs and stickers. I plan on getting some because if Bernie takes Kalifornia, it will be a rough democrat convention.
As to Trump being worse as Hillary? You have got to be kidding me. Trade, Trump. Border, Trump. Economic policies, Trump. Being on America's side, Trump.
As to the media and Trump? Trump has shown he gives better than he takes. He fights back. Also, he has all the right enemies: donks, GOPe, media, illegals, BLM, ....
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Thanks, friend. Had to take a break until the primary madness ran its course.
I hold you in great esteem and am not alone in that. :cheersmate:
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I hold you in great esteem and am not alone in that. :cheersmate:
Agreed.
Good to see you again.
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I live in moonbat central. Have not seen one sign/bumper sticker for Hillary. I have seen lots of Bernie signs and stickers. I plan on getting some because if Bernie takes Kalifornia, it will be a rough democrat convention.
As to Trump being worse as Hillary? You have got to be kidding me. Trade, Trump. Border, Trump. Economic policies, Trump. Being on America's side, Trump.
As to the media and Trump? Trump has shown he gives better than he takes. He fights back. Also, he has all the right enemies: donks, GOPe, media, illegals, BLM, ....
Not to mention the flocks of uber libs that will flee the country if you can take them at their word this time.
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I hold you in great esteem and am not alone in that. :cheersmate:
Ditto for me.
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So are we supposed to hold our noses and pretend that Trump is anything less than the lunatic that he presents himself as? I'm done.
hitlery clinton thanks you for your vote, as do your children and children's children thank you for the liberal SCOTUS you are endorsing.
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hitlery clinton thanks you for your vote, as do your children and children's children thank you for the liberal SCOTUS you are endorsing.
Any fans of the 2nd amendment out there in #neverTrump land?
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/05/04/hillary-clinton-plans-executive-action-to-exceed-obama-on-gun-control/
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For whatever it's worth--I got a good chuckle out of it--from a comment on freerepublic:
The good part is that Trump will destroy Clinton personally and viciously without exhibiting a shred of humanity.
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My take:
I know what I am getting with an enboldened Hillary... obumbles on steroids. With Trump I don't know what I am getting. I may get a conservative, I may get a liberal, I may get a snake oil salesman, I may get any number of things in between. For me the choice is easy. I will vote for Trump. I will vote that way for the simple reason that at worst I don't think he will be effective and probably won't get anything passed. Nothing coming out of DC is a hell of a lot better than obumbles on steroids. At best, might get some decent policies from the man. Hell if he does nothing else but build a damn wall and start kicking the illegals out I would consider that a win.
I don't think the man is nuts per se. I think he is crazy... like a fox. Nobody gave him a chance and here he is. Love him or hate him, you have to admit he can out-politician the politicians and out-MSM the MSM. The MSM is gonna go freaking nuts in the next few months... and it will all be ineffective. The Dump is gonna go ape shit the likes of which we haven't seen since Bush beat Kerry.
Just my 2 cents. Take it for what it is worth. Don't particulary care for Trump... hate hillary worse.
As an aside I love it when the Trump haters look at me with blood in their eye when they ask "My god are you a Trump supporter?" I just smile and reply "My god are you are a criminal Hillary supporter". :-)
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Several of us had a conversation about this earlier today.
Donald Trump is pretty much antithetical to Nebraska and Nebraskans; our values, our conduct, our personal characteristics. He's a big loudmouth New Yorker, and brags too much.
On the other hand, even though it's all academic now, he's going to carry the state Republican primary by an outlandish avalanche on May 17th.
Why?
Well, Hell, we all watched the past several months as all the other Republican candidates moved left or turned silly. There didn't seem to be anybody left, who represented us--or represented Republicans in general.
Why all these conversions to Democrat Lite confused us; to whom were they hoping to appeal? Their shifts wouldn't turn on Democrats, liberals, and primitives, who'd hate them anyway, so they gained no new constituency because of that. And their shifts definitely didn't turn on traditional Republicans.
So who the Hell were they hoping to appeal, by becoming Democrats Lite?
And so finally in the end, we end up with Trump, and since he's so much different from the candidates of the Democrats, liberals, and primitives, no matter how he's different from us, we might as well go along, hoping for the best.
And really, it doesn't seem an unrealistic hope.
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I think I am going to vote for Trump in November but if asked I will tell people that I left the choice for president box blank. Cankles must be denied. I was for Cruz but no one man is going to save this country anyway--what rockurworld said about the states convention to amend the constitution is the remedy that it's going to come down to. No one person got us into this mess and no one person is going to deliver us out of it. Cruz is a great man but he is no Moses. Leftists can pin all their hopes on one hope and change magic negro or liver spotted democratic socialist. If Trump is what we're stuck with, I'll learn to live with it.
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Several of us had a conversation about this earlier today.
Donald Trump is pretty much antithetical to Nebraska and Nebraskans; our values, our conduct, our personal characteristics. He's a big loudmouth New Yorker, and brags too much.
On the other hand, even though it's all academic now, he's going to carry the state Republican primary by an outlandish avalanche on May 17th.
Why?
Well, Hell, we all watched the past several months as all the other Republican candidates moved left or turned silly. There didn't seem to be anybody left, who represented us--or represented Republicans in general.
Why all these conversions to Democrat Lite confused us; to whom were they hoping to appeal? Their shifts wouldn't turn on Democrats, liberals, and primitives, who'd hate them anyway, so they gained no new constituency because of that. And their shifts definitely didn't turn on traditional Republicans.
So who the Hell were they hoping to appeal, by becoming Democrats Lite?
And so finally in the end, we end up with Trump, and since he's so much different from the candidates of the Democrats, liberals, and primitives, no matter how he's different from us, we might as well go along, hoping for the best.
And really, it doesn't seem an unrealistic hope.
:clap: :clap:
I have noticed the conservatives of all stripes are lately becoming as rabid as the liberals... especially on single issues. There is no perfect candidate. Never has been, never will be. The religious conservatives want Jesus Christ as a candidate. The abortion conservatives want a candidate that will outlaw abortion. The immigration conservatives want someone that will round up the illegals and show them the door post haste. The liberty conservatives want a libertarian. The fiscal conservatives, like myself, want a candidate that does not seem to exist. If anyone of these types of conservatives don't get their single issue candidate, they seem to stay home on election day in a snit.
Meanwhile on the other side the dems of all stripes will vote for whoever has a D after their name.
That right there is the problem.
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I came home down a blue highway today right through the heart of wood smoke country where wooden pyramids are hoisted over empty engine bays in hope of a new starter or head gasket. Not a Hillary sign in sight. A couple of Bernie signs. Trump? Everywhere. He would appear to be the choice of the common man here in NH.
A business man sees a need and fills it. Trump is filling a need. Like it or lump it. Can he bring blacks and Hispanics? I really don't know at this point.
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Several of us had a conversation about this earlier today.
Donald Trump is pretty much antithetical to Nebraska and Nebraskans; our values, our conduct, our personal characteristics. He's a big loudmouth New Yorker, and brags too much.
On the other hand, even though it's all academic now, he's going to carry the state Republican primary by an outlandish avalanche on May 17th.
Why?
Well, Hell, we all watched the past several months as all the other Republican candidates moved left or turned silly. There didn't seem to be anybody left, who represented us--or represented Republicans in general.
Why all these conversions to Democrat Lite confused us; to whom were they hoping to appeal? Their shifts wouldn't turn on Democrats, liberals, and primitives, who'd hate them anyway, so they gained no new constituency because of that. And their shifts definitely didn't turn on traditional Republicans.
So who the Hell were they hoping to appeal, by becoming Democrats Lite?
And so finally in the end, we end up with Trump, and since he's so much different from the candidates of the Democrats, liberals, and primitives, no matter how he's different from us, we might as well go along, hoping for the best.
And really, it doesn't seem an unrealistic hope.
:cheers2:
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I'm just not willing to take the chance that Hitlery could possibly appoint 3-4 S.C.Justices.
That has "all bad", written all over it. No telling if Trump will do better, but, it's a chance.
I'm absolutely not willing to just hand this over to the demoncraps.
If Trump IS the GOP candidate, he gets my vote. No games, no write-ins, just one vote.
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Election 2016...Hobson's Choice.
Either way we're screwed.
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You know, as I mentioned, Trump was my fifth or sixth choice at the beginning of the campaign season.
Going way back, I thought rather highly of John Boehner and/or John Kasich, based upon how they were during the early 1990s. But then Boehner turned Democrat Lite, and Kasich turned silly.
I thought Mitt Romney deserved a second chance (this was before he got unhinged and attacked another Republican), and especially since the Democrats had vetted and slandered him so much in 2012, I figured he'd win because there wasn't any new mud to splatter on him.
Barring that, I rather liked Paul Ryan until like Boehner, he turned Democrat Lite.
With the Democrats in the White House, the Republicans are supposed to be the party in opposition. I dunno where people get this idea that partisanship is "bad;" or at least it is when Republicans but not Democrats do it.
Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, all these other guys, were suddenly adopting Democrat stances on immigration, crime, taxes, national security. My God, it was a wondrous thing to watch, all these about-faces. Who the Hell was representing Republicans and Republican values any more?
Well, it wasn't Donald Trump, but as he's the last man standing, I'll stand with him.
I agree with you on this. You don't always get what you want or want what you get. I have wondered for a long time about the fate of the Republican party. This year may finally produce an answer. I find it hard to believe real conservative constitutionals can find a home with libertarians. Ronulans and Sandernistas could certainly form an interesting party with them since both seem to be looking for new homes. :whistling:
I often remind my self Reagan was a Democrat and Hillary a Republican. Nothing is cast in stone. People can and do change over time.
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Libertarians enjoy basic beliefs. Everyone gets left alone and to their own liberties. Republicans and Democrats are just two sides of the same coin rolling down the wrong hill
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I agree with you on this. You don't always get what you want or want what you get. I have wondered for a long time about the fate of the Republican party. This year may finally produce an answer. I find it hard to believe real conservative constitutionals can find a home with libertarians. Ronulans and Sandernistas could certainly form an interesting party with them since both seem to be looking for new homes. :whistling:
You make a mistake thinking libertarian = Ronulan, my friend. People who believe in free will and liberty don't follow any single man or his philosophy. Ron Paul had, and has, many good things to say, but he also said many things I disagree with. I wouldn't have voted for Ron Paul for president.
For the past half-dozen presidential elections, Republicans have coerced libertarians to vote for (R) candidates, with the justification that we agree on enough issues, and that libertarians should compromise with the GOP on our differences. That compromise has been purely one-sided, and it continues to this day.
The foot's on the other hand now, conservative Republicans. You can choose to embrace libertarianism (including the parts you disagree with); hold your nose for the odd and inconsistent NY liberal strongman who is your party's putative nominee, or stay home. I will continue to be a soldier for liberty, with or without you.
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You make a mistake thinking libertarian = Ronulan, my friend. People who believe in free will and liberty don't follow any single man or his philosophy. Ron Paul had, and has, many good things to say, but he also said many things I disagree with. I wouldn't have voted for Ron Paul for president.
For the past half-dozen presidential elections, Republicans have coerced libertarians to vote for (R) candidates, with the justification that we agree on enough issues, and that libertarians should compromise with the GOP on our differences. That compromise has been purely one-sided, and it continues to this day.
The foot's on the other hand now, conservative Republicans. You can choose to embrace libertarianism (including the parts you disagree with); hold your nose for the odd and inconsistent NY liberal strongman who is your party's putative nominee, or stay home. I will continue to be a soldier for liberty, with or without you.
Ron Paul ran as a libertarian in 1988.
1988 - Ron Paul, on the ballot in 46 states and the District of Columbia, comes in third for the U.S. presidency. He receives more than 430,000 votes – almost twice the total of any other third party candidate.
https://www.lp.org/introduction/our-history
There is a lot to be said for liberty coupled with personal responsibility and accountability.
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:clap: :clap:
I have noticed the conservatives of all stripes are lately becoming as rabid as the liberals... especially on single issues. There is no perfect candidate. Never has been, never will be. The religious conservatives want Jesus Christ as a candidate. The abortion conservatives want a candidate that will outlaw abortion. The immigration conservatives want someone that will round up the illegals and show them the door post haste. The liberty conservatives want a libertarian. The fiscal conservatives, like myself, want a candidate that does not seem to exist. If anyone of these types of conservatives don't get their single issue candidate, they seem to stay home on election day in a snit.
Meanwhile on the other side the dems of all stripes will vote for whoever has a D after their name.
That right there is the problem.
Many people vote because of the economy. I agree something has to be done with illegal immigration. The rest, they can be dealt once they are in the White House.
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My take:
I know what I am getting with an enboldened Hillary... obumbles on steroids. With Trump I don't know what I am getting. I may get a conservative, I may get a liberal, I may get a snake oil salesman, I may get any number of things in between. For me the choice is easy. I will vote for Trump. I will vote that way for the simple reason that at worst I don't think he will be effective and probably won't get anything passed. Nothing coming out of DC is a hell of a lot better than obumbles on steroids. At best, might get some decent policies from the man. Hell if he does nothing else but build a damn wall and start kicking the illegals out I would consider that a win.
I don't think the man is nuts per se. I think he is crazy... like a fox. Nobody gave him a chance and here he is. Love him or hate him, you have to admit he can out-politician the politicians and out-MSM the MSM. The MSM is gonna go freaking nuts in the next few months... and it will all be ineffective. The Dump is gonna go ape shit the likes of which we haven't seen since Bush beat Kerry.
Just my 2 cents. Take it for what it is worth. Don't particulary care for Trump... hate hillary worse.
As an aside I love it when the Trump haters look at me with blood in their eye when they ask "My god are you a Trump supporter?" I just smile and reply "My god are you are a criminal Hillary supporter". :-)
My thinking too.
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Ron Paul ran as a libertarian in 1988.
Yes, he did. That changes none of what I wrote.
There is a lot to be said for liberty coupled with personal responsibility and accountability.
That's true. It's also true that the State can't force people to be responsible, and imprisoning or killing them won't make them accountable.
The only alternative to liberty is slavery. Which will you vote for?
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Many people vote because of the economy. I agree something has to be done with illegal immigration. The rest, they can be dealt once they are in the White House.
That is my way of thinking as well. The economy is the great equalizer in politics. You just cannot spin your way out of a shitty economy. On the other hand, you got a large number of people on welfare and it seems to me that the ups and downs do not affect them. That needs to change. I don't think it will.
As to immigration of the illegal kind. I really think something needs to be done.
A thought: The easiest way is to turn all these illegals into GOP voters and the dems will deport their ass so fast it would make a New York Minute seem like an eternity. Build a wall in year 1 of a GOP admin, then grant the illegals permanent non voter status in year 4. Make the plan widely known. The libs being libs would be against it from the get go and viola! GOP voters. Would it work? Beats me. Does what we have now work? Hell no!
Now I ain't the smartest guy in the world and I thought of this so why can't the GOP policy wonks come up with it? :banghead:
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I think most here are very libertarian in values and political philosophy.
Capital L party Libertarianism which is socially liberal and isolationist loses a lot of us.
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I think most here are very libertarian in values and political philosophy.
Capital L party Libertarianism which is socially liberal and isolationist loses a lot of us.
The party is Libertarian, but it neither owns nor controls libertarianism. I don't vote for the Libertarian Party, I vote for a libertarian candidate. Does that make sense?
"Socially liberal" is a misnomer. There is a big difference between disapproving of any human action, a moral and cultural position, and expecting the State to violate the life, liberty, property, or pursuit of happiness of someone else because I disapprove.
For example, I am disgusted by male homosexuality, but wholeheartedly support woman-on-woman sex, for the obvious reason- pure entertainment value. I do not expect the State to oppress or favor either group. I openly laugh at trannies, while I oppose laws which either oppress them or give them any preferences under the law. I don't give a good God damn about marijuana consumption, much preferring good bourbon and a cigar- and I oppose laws which infringe on the natural right of another to control his own body (even if it causes him harm).
I also think about the dichotomy between individual liberty and membership in a political party with a platform. There are positions the national LP holds that I disagree with. I am pro-life, and consider it a libertarian view based on the natural right to Life. I believe in national sovereignty and strong borders, and consider it a libertarian view based on the individual's natural right to Property and the legitimate purpose of government- to safeguard individual liberty. The LP does not require me to agree with them on either position to be a member of the party; in fact, it cannot, for that would be decidedly un-libertarian.
The Democrat and Republican candidates oppose personal freedom, personal responsibility, and limited government, much less constitutionally limited government. I'll never vote for my own enslavement, nor vote for a candidate who is willing to steal from me in the name of a fictional "common good" or "greater good".
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Yes, he did. That changes none of what I wrote.
That's true. It's also true that the State can't force people to be responsible, and imprisoning or killing them won't make them accountable.
The only alternative to liberty is slavery. Which will you vote for?
I imagine you mean this as a theoretical construct rather than literal truth based on the current political race. Otherwise it is a bit of hysterical hyperbole. Not casting a vote is certainly your right just as it is to vote for a Libertarian candidate. I am sure Hillary will appreciate it.
Looking ahead to her Supreme court picks which have the potential to alter the court to a 7-2 liberal active base, how will that affect your liberty? Will Trump make better picks? Who knows. Does he have a better chance than a Libertarian of winning. Absolutely. You are willing to play Russian Roulette with a fully loaded automatic. I am more comfortable with a single shot in a revolver. :whistling:
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Looking ahead to her Supreme court picks which have the potential to alter the court to a 7-2 liberal active base, how will that affect your liberty? Will Trump make better picks? Who knows.
Much as I would prefer it wasn't Trump (But at least it isn't Bush, Graham, or Christie, all of whom would be even more troublesome to me), I'm highly confident he couldn't possibly make WORSE picks for the Supreme Court than Hitlery would.