The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Politics => Topic started by: RonBush on March 30, 2016, 06:21:57 PM
-
Are the people here who supported Trump a few months ago still enthusiastic about him? Has anyone changed their mind or had doubts or second thoughts?
I'm not trying to push for or against Trump. I am asking this question in a neutral way. I am just curious.
I know that Trump is not popular among lots of the people here, but there are some Trump supporters. This is a question for the people who support Trump, or did support him in the past, not for the people who have never supported him.
-
I am still OK with him.
Some recent bizarreness, but ANYONE is better than hitlery!
-
He's imploding before our very eyes. He's turning out to be everything Conservatives feared he was. Especially with his comments about taxes in Wisconsin, the three basic responsibilities of government and his inability to ell the difference between the Geneva Conventions and Rules of Engagement.
It's little wonder Cruz has soared to a 10 point lead in Wisconsin and pulled even with him in California.
-
Nope. Didn't like him at the beginning and still don't like him.
-
Especially with his comments about ... the three basic responsibilities of government
I didn't hear about that. What did he say?
-
He's imploding before our very eyes. He's turning out to be everything Conservatives feared he was. Especially with his comments about taxes in Wisconsin, the three basic responsibilities of government and his inability to ell the difference between the Geneva Conventions and Rules of Engagement.
It's little wonder Cruz has soared to a 10 point lead in Wisconsin and pulled even with him in California.
Yep...
Trump's abortion comments (and flip flop hours later) really iced the cake. Now the public is perceiving him to be behind the smears of Cruz and his wife, it really is paying off as a good week for Cruz.
-
I didn't hear about that. What did he say?
At a CNN town hall in Milwaukee, Trump was asked by an Army veteran what he thought the top three responsibilities of the federal government were.
“Well the greatest function of all by far is security for our nation. I would also say healthcare; I would also say education,†he replied.
Trump went on, giving the type of answer one might expect from a student questioned about a passage from the homework he didn’t read.
“I mean there are many, many things. But I would say the top three are security, security, security. We have to have security for our country, so we can continue to exist as a country,†he went on. He then said “thousands†of people were “infiltrating†the country, a mixture of his terror and immigration talking points.
Anderson Cooper double-checked that the candidate meant what he said, and he repeated it.
“I say all top three are security, but healthcare, education would be three that would probably be top.†He also suggested “housing†and “providing great neighborhoods†as two other important roles the federal government should somehow fill.
https://latest.com/2016/03/trump-lists-top-three-responsibilities-of-government-flip-flops-immediately-after/
-
Yep...
Trump's abortion comments (and flip flop hours later) really iced the cake. Now the public is perceiving him to be behind the smears of Cruz and his wife, it really is paying off as a good week for Cruz.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff68/kayaktn/DUmmies/trumpster_zpsghojllmn.jpg)
:whatever:
-
It almost seems like Trump has been sabotaging his own campaign right from the start. Sure he said the right things at the very beginning to get a large following, but he constantly shoots himself in the foot.
He's hit an approximate 40% ceiling of support and has done much to solidify that ceiling by making so many blunders.
Why would he do something like that? Split the GOP once and for all and guarantee Hillary the presidency. Remember he has donated a hell of a lot of money to democrats and anti-conservative groups in the past.
Many of his current claimed positions are 180 degrees from much of what he said in the past.
-
Yep, I thought much the same. Why would anyone who many people call "smart" do so many dumb things ???
I'm wondering, are there people with TV camera's making a video of Trump's new reality show; "how I fooled so many people", or "how I got Hillary elected using republicans", or "some people will believe anything".
Actually I think I saw one of them once.........oh yeah, it's on every channel every night now. :thatsright:
-
Yep, I thought much the same. Why would anyone who many people call "smart" do so many dumb things ???
I'm wondering, are there people with TV camera's making a video of Trump's new reality show; "how I fooled so many people", or "how I got Hillary elected using republicans", or "some people will believe anything".
Actually I think I saw one of them once.........oh yeah, it's on every channel every night now. :thatsright:
I am the LAST person on the planet to make excuses for Flump. Didn't like him back then, don't like him now.
But one thing I think we need to keep in mind -- the campaign trail is long and arduous. Plenty of occasions to say really stupid stuff and get hung for it. It's happened in one form or another to ALL candidates who hang on this long (and longer).
I think we're seeing some of that now, and we're seeing plenty of evidence that Flump just doesn't do his homework. He didn't do it from the beginning and he's not doing it now.
-
I am the LAST person on the planet to make excuses for Flump. Didn't like him back then, don't like him now.
But one thing I think we need to keep in mind -- the campaign trail is long and arduous. Plenty of occasions to say really stupid stuff and get hung for it. It's happened in one form or another to ALL candidates who hang on this long (and longer).
I think we're seeing some of that now, and we're seeing plenty of evidence that Flump just doesn't do his homework. He didn't do it from the beginning and he's not doing it now.
Most candidates are willing to say they misspoke or admit they were wrong. Not Trump. He doubles down on stupid almost every single time. His more hardcore followers are like cult members than anything .
-
One of the reasons I like Cruz from the day he announced, was his ability to stop the media train in it's tracks when they tried the usual "got-cha" questions.
This when I knew Ted Cruz was the only one that is "Reagan like".
http://www.businessinsider.com/ted-cruz-answers-gay-rights-question-2015-5
Conservatives love this video of Ted Cruz trashing a reporter who asked him about gay rights.
Sample of video;
Apparently asked again about his potential "personal animosity," Cruz continued to focus on the reporter.
"Do you have a personal animosity against Christians, sir?" he said. "Your line of questioning is highly curious. You seem fixated on a particular subject. Look, I'm a Christian; scripture commands us to love everybody, and what I have been talking about with respect to same-sex marriage is the Constitution, which is what we should all be focused on."
-
Most candidates are willing to say they misspoke or admit they were wrong. Not Trump. He doubles down on stupid almost every single time. His more hardcore followers are like cult members than anything .
I see that on twitter everyday. They constantly excuse his juvenile behavior. He re-tweeted an unflattering picture of Mrs.Cruz along side a picture of Mrs. Trump. I cannot remember the meme; but it was definitely not a presidential tweet. He even had one of his most ardent supporters (Anne Coulter) questioning that move. All his supporters "hear" is "build a wall"; and they turn a blind eye/ear to everything else he says...no matter how stupid or juvenile.
-
I am moving from distrusting to disgusted.
He needs to grow up.
-
I found another example of his juvenile sense of humor...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ce6CWq2UAAEAj1w.jpg)
-
I see that on twitter everyday. They constantly excuse his juvenile behavior. He re-tweeted an unflattering picture of Mrs.Cruz along side a picture of Mrs. Trump. I cannot remember the meme; but it was definitely not a presidential tweet. He even had one of his most ardent supporters (Anne Coulter) questioning that move. All his supporters "hear" is "build a wall"; and they turn a blind eye/ear to everything else he says...no matter how stupid or juvenile.
I found it...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ce64L7fWsAAqjyZ.jpg)
-
I am moving from distrusting to disgusted.
He needs to grow up.
He's an absolute ****ing dumbass. Every promise he's made, he's walked back to one degree or another, in addition to every other stupid, tone-deaf comment he's made. The man speaks at a fourth-grade level and his "conservative" sycophants love him for it.
I'm just waiting for the EFT from the Clinton Foundation to Donny Trump's bank account.
-
He's an absolute ****ing dumbass. Every promise he's made, he's walked back to one degree or another, in addition to every other stupid, tone-deaf comment he's made. The man speaks at a fourth-grade level and his "conservative" sycophants love him for it.
I'm just waiting for the EFT from the Clinton Foundation to Donny Trump's bank account.
Yup. Flump's been to the "it doesn't matter what I say or when I say it because they forget anyway" ACME School of Political Power Grabs. Amazing to see and hear the garbage that comes out of his mouth -- all the more because it resonates with so many people.
I never took the guy seriously from the outset and still can't. He's a fraud, pure and simple.
-
Yup. Flump's been to the "it doesn't matter what I say or when I say it because they forget anyway" ACME School of Political Power Grabs. Amazing to see and hear the garbage that comes out of his mouth -- all the more because it resonates with so many people.
I never took the guy seriously from the outset and still can't. He's a fraud, pure and simple.
(http://i.imgur.com/ABlQqAF.jpg)
-
(http://i.imgur.com/ABlQqAF.jpg)
Hey! President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho was a better leader (and a better wrestler) than Trump. At least Camacho knew when he didn't know something. You're being unfair to Camacho!
Monday Night Rehabilitation for you!
-
Hey! President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho was a better leader (and a better wrestler) than Trump. At least Camacho knew when he didn't know something. You're being unfair to Camacho!
Monday Night Rehabilitation for you!
:cheersmate:
Can I have some Brawndo? It has electrolytes!
-
I think one of the commentators on TV said it best; "Trump is a liberal trying to sound like a conservative but comes across as a caricature of a conservative democrats like to portray".
I think that is spot on, Trump the phony.
-
In the end it's probably not going to matter. The GOPe is likely thinking of a way to keep both candidates out.
-
In the end it's probably not going to matter. The GOPe is likely thinking of a way to keep both candidates out.
It's really kind of sad. The democrats are running two of the weakest candidates in decades, and the GOP is looking for a way to hand one of them the election.
I still think Trump's goal from the start was to wreck the gop and make sure Hillary was elected.
This whole thing could have been avoided if the GOP wasn't averse to conservative ideals.
-
It's really kind of sad. The democrats are running two of the weakest candidates in decades, and the GOP is looking for a way to hand one of them the election.
I still think Trump's goal from the start was to wreck the gop and make sure Hillary was elected.
This whole thing could have been avoided if the GOP wasn't averse to conservative ideals.
See 2012, 2008, etc.
-
I haven't changed my mind about Trump, or any other candidate in this race for President for that matter. It doesn't matter who wins. The losers in this election, no matter which candidate wins, are the American people. None of these corrupt scumbags care one bit what happens to the people of this country and plan to line their pockets with the taxpayers money.
-
I haven't changed my mind about Trump, or any other candidate in this race for President for that matter. It doesn't matter who wins. The losers in this election, no matter which candidate wins, are the American people. None of these corrupt scumbags care one bit what happens to the people of this country and plan to line their pockets with the taxpayers money.
How does Cruz fit into your view that all the candidates are "corrupt scumbags"?
-
How does Cruz fit into your view that all the candidates are "corrupt scumbags"?
He's a politician. All politicians are corrupt scumbags. Therefore, Cruz is a corrupt scumbag. Deal with it.
-
He's a politician. All politicians are corrupt scumbags. Therefore, Cruz is a corrupt scumbag.
Congratulations you just called George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, and a whole hose of great Americans "scumbags".
Congrats on taking a neanderthal position that requires absolutely zero use of brain power at all.
Deal with it.
Bite me.
-
Congratulations you just called George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, and a whole hose of great Americans "scumbags".
Congrats on taking a neanderthal position that requires absolutely zero use of brain power at all.
OH NO! You've hurt my feelings! Whatever shall I do? I know. Point and laugh at you zealots who think that their vote means anything.
Bite me.
No thanks, I don't eat junk food.
-
OH NO! You've hurt my feelings! Whatever shall I do? I know. Point and laugh at you zealots who think that their vote means anything.
So pointing out the fact you grouped the Founding Fathers and one of the best Presidents we've ever had into your "all politicians are scumbags" outburst equates into your heas as me attempting to hurt your feelings?
I was merely trying to figure out if you viewed those men as scumbags as well. A very straightforward easy to answer question.
And yet you deflected and avoided answering.
Figures.
If anyone is coming off sounding like a zealot it's you. If we're all supposedly wasting our vote and all we're worth of from you is lame attempts at snark...why even post here anymore?
Is your sanctimonious self aggrandizing smugness not enough to keep you company?
Or are you in such dire need of attention that you'd rather show back up here after being gone for awhile and act like a troll?
Just curious.
No thanks, I don't eat junk food.
No? that's surprising cause you sure spew a lot of shit.
-
So pointing out the fact you grouped the Founding Fathers and one of the best Presidents we've ever had into your "all politicians are scumbags" outburst equates into your heas as me attempting to hurt your feelings?
I was merely trying to figure out if you viewed those men as scumbags as well. A very straightforward easy to answer question.
And yet you deflected and avoided answering.
Figures.
If anyone is coming off sounding like a zealot it's you. If we're all supposedly wasting our vote and all we're worth of from you is lame attempts at snark...why even post here anymore?
Is your sanctimonious self aggrandizing smugness not enough to keep you company?
Or are you in such dire need of attention that you'd rather show back up here after being gone for awhile and act like a troll?
Just curious.
No? that's surprising cause you sure spew a lot of shit.
Yawn, more useless drivel from a zealot. Have a nice day idiot. I'm done with you and your stupidity. But, please, rage on. I find it amusing.
-
Well, I get to vote for Trump on Tuesday. He wasn't my guy at first but then I started listening to what he had to say.
Cruz really lost in me in March when he sided with the Bernie/Soros/MoveOn rabble at the planned Chicago rally leaving me with really no alternative this cycle.
And for me there is also no way to separate Heidi Cruz's career from her Ted Cruz.
And then there is what Ted Cruz did to Ben Carson in Iowa. The more I write about Ted Cruz the less I can support him. I keep remembering all these things that are giant red flags. I think he is a fraud.
-
Yawn, more useless drivel from a zealot. Have a nice day idiot. I'm done with you and your stupidity. But, please, rage on. I find it amusing.
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y318/lkannes/pancakebunny.png)
-
Well, I get to vote for Trump on Tuesday. He wasn't my guy at first but then I started listening to what he had to say.
What has he said exactly? Other than fluffy pronouncements that he's going to do "great things"?
Oh yeah he things Wisconson needed higher taxes...education and health care are two of the three primary functions of Government.
And that women who have an abortion need to be criminally punished.
Then there is also his beliefs on gay marriage.
Yeah that's a solid Conservative base that he stands on that really makes me want to vote for him over Ted Cruz.
Cruz really lost in me in March when he sided with the Bernie/Soros/MoveOn rabble at the planned Chicago rally leaving me with really no alternative this cycle.
So pointing out the fact that Trumps own words are what is inspiring his followers act out violently at his rallies against protestors or the veiled threat about trouble at the Convention mean nothing to you?
And for me there is also no way to separate Heidi Cruz's career from her Ted Cruz.
So is she just supposed to be in the kitchen backing cookies?
And then there is what Ted Cruz did to Ben Carson in Iowa. The more I write about Ted Cruz the less I can support him. I keep remembering all these things that are giant red flags. I think he is a fraud.
Cruz didn't do anything to Carson in Iowa.
-
Well, I get to vote for Trump on Tuesday. He wasn't my guy at first but then I started listening to what he had to say.
Cruz really lost in me in March when he sided with the Bernie/Soros/MoveOn rabble at the planned Chicago rally leaving me with really no alternative this cycle.
And for me there is also no way to separate Heidi Cruz's career from her Ted Cruz.
And then there is what Ted Cruz did to Ben Carson in Iowa. The more I write about Ted Cruz the less I can support him. I keep remembering all these things that are giant red flags. I think he is a fraud.
don't bother explaining how you feel. Tex doesn't give a shit about it and will call you a sell out democrat light. Every time I read his propaganda it drives me further away.
-
don't bother explaining how you feel. Tex doesn't give a shit about it and will call you a sell out democrat light. Every time I read his propaganda it drives me further away.
In fact, he reminds me of the Bernie Bullies over at the DUmp in his zealotry....or Herr Gator when it comes to Israel.
Zealots are zealots, no matter which side of the political spectrum they come from, and anything coming from them can be ignored.
-
don't bother explaining how you feel.
How about you let him speak for himself. Unlike you I'd really like to know how a Trump supporter justifies everything that is right there in front of them that says he's going to be a disaster.
Something you don't really want to do for some reason.
Tex doesn't give a shit about it and will call you a sell out democrat light.
Yeah oh shit you got me dutch.
:whatever:
Every time I read his propaganda it drives me further away.
No what you do is duck the issues and avoid having to defend your positions. It's easier and doesn't require any brain power to arrogantly dismiss who ever dares challenge your oh so superior intellect. God forbid you actually have to lower yourself to defend your support for this fraud.
-
In fact, he reminds me of the Bernie Bullies over at the DUmp in his zealotry....or Herr Gator when it comes to Israel.
Zealots are zealots, no matter which side of the political spectrum they come from, and anything coming from them can be ignored.
Ok dipshit...I'll bite...how does challenging this mindless bling cult like following of Donald Trump make ME a zealot?
I know you're too much of a coward to actually give an honest or intelligent answer and you'll just continue to falsely accuse me of being a zealot...but I'll put it out there anyway. Maybe for a brief minute you'll find your balls.
Sounds like you left your projection system on.
-
Ok dipshit...I'll bite...how does challenging this mindless bling cult like following of Donald Trump make ME a zealot?
I know you're too much of a coward to actually give an honest or intelligent answer and you'll just continue to falsely accuse me of being a zealot...but I'll put it out there anyway. Maybe for a brief minute you'll find your balls.
Sounds like you left your projection system on.
I guess you missed the bit about me being done with your stupidity. I'm not going to answer you ranting and raving because you're just not worth my time. Oh, I know you'll call me a coward and other vile things but, you know what? I really don't give a **** about what comes from your pie hole. You are nothing but white noise here to me now.
Don't bother responding. This will be my last dealings with you. Good ****ing bye moron.
-
I guess you missed the bit about me being done with your stupidity. I'm not going to answer you ranting and raving because you're just not worth my time. Oh, I know you'll call me a coward and other vile things but, you know what? I really don't give a **** about what comes from your pie hole. You are nothing but white noise here to me now.
Don't bother responding. This will be my last dealings with you. Good ****ing bye moron.
Yeah that's what I thought. Big fat nothing burger. Just like your idol Donny Trump.
Neither one of you with a brain cell between you.
No backbone to defend your mindless sheep like following of a fraud.
Coward.
-
How about you let him speak for himself. Unlike you I'd really like to know how a Trump supporter justifies everything that is right there in front of them that says he's going to be a disaster.
Something you don't really want to do for some reason.
Yeah oh shit you got me dutch.
:whatever:
No what you do is duck the issues and avoid having to defend your positions. It's easier and doesn't require any brain power to arrogantly dismiss who ever dares challenge your oh so superior intellect. God forbid you actually have to lower yourself to defend your support for this fraud.
I told you a while ago why I thought the way I did. You called me a sell out.
So **** you.
-
I told you a while ago why I thought the way I did. You called me a sell out.
So **** you.
You were dismissive patronizing and when I asked you specific questions you ducked out of the whole debate.
I did not...to my recollection call you a sell out. If I did...by all means find the quote.
Til then either man up and actually defend this bloviating windbag you so emphatically think is the savior of the GOP or GFYS.
-
I told you a while ago why I thought the way I did. You called me a sell out.
So **** you.
Don't bother Dutch. Tex has gone round the bend with his hatred of all who don't support his candidate....much like the Bernie Bullies at DU. He's not worth the effort to debate him because of this. Just laugh at his impotent rage and move on.
-
Don't bother Dutch. Tex has gone round the bend with his hatred of all who don't support his candidate....much like the Bernie Bullies at DU. He's not worth the effort to debate him because of this. Just laugh at his impotent rage and move on.
I don't hate anyone. I leave that to a bitter old ****tard like you Zath. I just find it odd that when any of the Trump Humpers like you and dutch have someone actually press you in the issues about what makes Trump so good...the best you can do is to start hurling invective like a tourettes patient off his/her meds.
You won't debate because you can't debate. But then that's par for the course for the Trump Humpers like you.
If you had a leg to stand on with this guy you'd be able to debate the qualities about him that make him the worth candidate. But you can't...so you just hurl insults like the Ron Paul supporters of old when confronted about the reality of just how batshit crazy their candidate was.
It's really kind of tragic but at the same time very informative for those watching you mentally implode over this.
-
Don't bother Dutch. Tex has gone round the bend with his hatred of all who don't support his candidate....much like the Bernie Bullies at DU. He's not worth the effort to debate him because of this. Just laugh at his impotent rage and move on.
Donald Trump drew millions to his campaign with his bold and uncompromising pledges to build a wall on the U.S.-Mexican border and deport all of the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants living in the U.S.
But faced with a report that he told the New York Times editorial board in an off-the-record meeting that his immigration views are in fact more flexible than he has let on, Trump appeared to confirm those suspicions.
"Everything is negotiable," Trump said in late February on Fox News when asked about the report.
Trump then went on to say that he would be willing to negotiate on the height of the wall and suggested his policy to deport all undocumented immigrants could also be flexible.
http://www.abc-7.com/story/31613852/abortion-and-10-other-donald-trump-flip-flops
-
I told you a while ago why I thought the way I did. You called me a sell out.
So **** you.
Remember when you said he'd be good for the military?
Donald Trump declared in February that "torture works" and that he would "bring back waterboarding and I'd bring back a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding."
In subsequent rallies, Trump argued that ISIS's brutal and barbarous tactics merited a more forceful response from the U.S. that would include torturing suspected terrorists.
As experts argued that military officials would disobey even a commander-in-chief's unlawful order -- as Trump's torture decision would be -- Trump bristled.
"Frankly, when I say they'll do as I tell them, they'll do as I tell them," Trump said during a March 3 GOP debate.
http://www.abc-7.com/story/31613852/abortion-and-10-other-donald-trump-flip-flops
Donald Trump suggested that as president he would finance Social Security by requiring countries that benefit from U.S. military protection to pay for the service.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-rent-out-u.s.-military-to-finance-social-security/article/2585533
rump horrified the editors of the Washington Post when he said he wanted to renegotiate the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (“We certainly can’t afford to do this anymoreâ€). When asked whether the United States gains anything by having military bases in South Korea and Japan, Trump replied, “Personally, I don’t think so.†He said South Korea is “a wealthy country†that he has “great relationships with†(“I have buildings in South Koreaâ€). Trump’s complaint? “We are not reimbursed fairly for what we do.â€
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2016/03/28/trump-wants-to-leave-u-s-allies-in-the-lurch/
-
http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=106229.25
I like Cruz.
I like Trump.
At this point in time I like Trump a bit more than Cruz. I haven't heard Cruz say anything that really made me want to choose him over Trump. Listening to Yrump at Liberty University really put the difference between DT and Barry O'Bama.
If I had to vote today it would be for a Trump/Cruz ticket.
Why? What qualifies him?
Trump has experience in world business and not just a political point of view. He has dealt with foreign companies and governments successfully. AND, like Bill Wittle expressed in a video not too long ago, there are three major areas I think Trump would do better than the rest:
1) Border Security. I think Trump would do exactly what he says he'll do and build a wall and deport those who need deporting. Trump doesn't have to pay back a shit load of SUPER PAC money or favors for lobbyists and he really doesn't give a shit what people say about him. We can see in Europe now that they are finally waking up and we see Denmark talking about deporting 60,000 and Sweden deporting 20,000 because they realized they ****ed up. I think Trump will do it and the rest would talk.
2) Military. I think Trump would rebuild the military and put us (the military) back on the right path. I was around in uniform when Reagan became President and it was a breath of fresh air for us. We had funding but better than that we knew the President had our backs and morale was great. When Clinton came in things went to shit again. We held on but we all knew that the White House didn't care about us. I know you don't really like G.W.B. but a lot of us loved that man and still do. He was one of us. What pissed us off more than fighting wars in the M.E. was Barry surrendering when we had victory within sight. I think Trump will rebuild the military morale and standing and I think as a successful CEO he will actually listen to the Joint Chiefs and the Intel Chiefs and protect this country. I think Cruz may do this too but the guy just hasn't inspired me yet.
3) Rebuild the US Economic powerhouse. I think Trump would make the US economy the focus and do everything he could to build it up at the expense of our competition in the world. As a business man I think he has the knowledge to do this successfully and, let's face it, Trump just don't give a **** who he pisses off doing it, be it foreign corporations or liberal socialists. I don't see any of the others with the ability to do this.
So you're just going to ignore Trump's track record of being a liberal and his current talk about deal making with the very people that have helped put us in the situation we're in?
Why?
Last election I voted for a person who said they would fix the dem's ****ed up shit and when they all got into office they rolled over and gave Barry everything he wanted. The Speaker of the House, who we all cheered as someone who would finally stand up to Barry caved in and basically swallowed after sucking the Obama cock. I don't trust a single politician to do what he says he will, including Rubio, Cruz, Bush or Christie. I really like Carson but I just don't see him as strong enough to be an effective President.
There is plenty I disagree with Trump on and I have to weigh the merits of each to see if the positives outweigh the negatives. Like I have said before I am not sure who I will vote for during the primary as I have a few months left. I am leaning towards Trump but Cruz is well within the margin of error.
1) I really don't like Trump's view of healthcare. We all know it has to be fixed and I am hoping that Trump will be the one to pound together the plan with both sides a workable solution to Obamacare. I think Trump would actually listen to what the people say instead of just the politicians. I also think big med and big pharma can't buy off Trump.
2) Trump has stated he thinks that bigger government will help and I don't agree at all. On the other hand a strong central government is what we might need heading into the upcoming global war on Islamic radicals. If you don't think that is coming them you are fooling yourself. Either way I'd rather a strong man in the office than not.
3) Trump 'switching sides' numerous times is what I see and a major issue except when you look at it from a businessman's point of view. You want to be friendly with those in power to be successful in business. I don't like it but it's the hard reality of life. Would I rather Trump be a hard core republican all his life? Yeah, but then he would have been as successful as his is and not be running for President.
All the negatives are stacked up against the positives and are balanced with a slight favor towards Trump than against at this time. I also look at who would win against Hillary or Sanders and I think Trump has a better chance than Cruz right now. I think Cruz would put better 'conservative' Justices on the bench of the S.C., but either way I think we'll get two, maybe three on there in the next eight years if we hold the congress and White House. I think long term we'd have a better chance with Trump than Cruz to win in 2020.
That's my thoughts on the matter. Like I have said I am not looking for a fight so I have stayed out of this for a while now but you asked directly and I thought you deserved a good honest answer.
So basically you're casting a vote this time based more on emotion and the fact you think both sides suck.
Got it.
You're the one supporting the candidate who has zero track record politically in getting anything done.
Zero zip nada.
You like Dutch are basing your vote on hopey changey emotions coupled with the fact you think both political parties suck.
Smh...
Trump has no friends there except the RINO's none of us can stand and a bunch of hard left Liberals.
Founding Fathers looked upon private property ownership as one of the basic building blocks of a free society.
Intrude on a persons right to own property...you are restricting their liberty.
Why people are ok with that is beyond me.
We need someone that will abide by the Constitution and enforce the laws that are already on the books.
So you'd rather have Bernie or Hillary finish what Obama started?
http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=106229.25
After that exchange and others where 'anyone but trump' posters sounded more like the ronbots of glorious past I chose not to comment on Trump until today.
Won't again.
Come the convention, if it doesn't burn to the ground either by [R]s hands or [D]s, I'll see if there is anyone worth the effort to vote for.
-
You called me a sell out.
I guess I missed where you showed I actually said that to you.
-
As long has he builds a wall and brings back jobs, I'm for him.
-
NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
He's a politician. All politicians are corrupt scumbags. Therefore, Cruz is a corrupt scumbag. Deal with it.
That's kinda how I've always viewed it. There is only one candidate who could ever run that I would like 100%... but I already have a job and I'm too damned lazy to get laughed out of town.
-
That's kinda how I've always viewed it. There is only one candidate who could ever run that I would like 100%... but I already have a job and I'm too damned lazy to get laughed out of town.
So the Founding Fathers were "corrupt scumbags"? Reagan was a "corrupt scumbag"?
You realize that if you yourself became a politician you'd become a "corrupt scumbag" as well right?
-
So the Founding Fathers were "corrupt scumbags"? Reagan was a "corrupt scumbag"?
You realize that if you yourself became a politician you'd become a "corrupt scumbag" as well right?
I'd suggest that the system, in the late 18th century, hadn't deteriorated quite to the point that it is now. Lawyers, lobbyists, and professional bureaucrats have all tainted the term "politician". This is what we have after much of the last 240 years of self-serving pricks who have made it a point to serve themselves.
I note with some satisfaction that most of the FF back in the day looked on serving as a politician certainly a civic duty, but they made no bones about returning to private life as a step "up".
Reagan's genius lay in his skill in communicating. Even he had his dubious moments -- certainly not to the level of the scumbags we see today on both sides of the aisle -- but last time I looked, he didn't walk on water. I think the Iran/Contra affair took the wind out of his sails -- that, and his developing Alzheimer's.
-
I'd suggest that the system, in the late 18th century, hadn't deteriorated quite to the point that it is now. Lawyers, lobbyists, and professional bureaucrats have all tainted the term "politician". This is what we have after much of the last 240 years of self-serving pricks who have made it a point to serve themselves.
I note with some satisfaction that most of the FF back in the day looked on serving as a politician certainly a civic duty, but they made no bones about returning to private life as a step "up".
Reagan's genius lay in his skill in communicating. Even he had his dubious moments -- certainly not to the level of the scumbags we see today on both sides of the aisle -- but last time I looked, he didn't walk on water. I think the Iran/Contra affair took the wind out of his sails -- that, and his developing Alzheimer's.
I get all that and I agree. But that whole "all politicians are scumbags" line is just as big a steaming pile of bullshit as when the BLM thugs say "all cops are racist" or the anti-war Libtard/DU types say "all soldiers are baby killers".
All three of those statements reveal the people shouting them to be intellectually lazy and morally dishonest. It doesn't take any kind of brain power or thought at all to blurt out meaningless un-original crap like that no matter who says it.
-
I would say that, for the most part, most modern politicians can't be trusted. Way too many say whatever it takes to get elected leading the voters to believe one thing about them, only to discover they will all too easily compromise with ideas the voters don't want them to even consider discussing. In that respect, they could be viewed as scumbags.
--------------
But more back to the topic, this whole matter is coming down to how it's perceived by the public, and that perception is that the process is unfair. Now one could argue the validity of that, but as it stands people feel cheated.
I think there's things that could be done to alleviate that problem, but that's not to say changing won't create other problems. But here it is:
1) No caucuses, only primaries.
2) No open primaries
3) Delegates assigned to candidates in proportion to popular vote (no "winner take all")
For the most part, that eliminates the "Were aren't being represented and the insiders are deciding our candidate for us" issue.
A problem is what to do with delegates assigned to a candidate that eventually drops out. I guess they could be free to vote however, or delegates could be re-appropriated to those candidates remaining based upon how they did in that State's election, or any number of other ideas. But, like I said, these all have their own problems.
See, here's the issue.
Let's say you got 3 candidates (A, B & C) and here's how the votes falls.
A= 48%
B= 26%
C= 26%
In a straight up majority winner, "A" should be the nominee. But they don't have enough (50%+, let's say) to get them over the top.
But, "B" people will support "C" but not "A", and "C" people will support "B" and not "A", and "A" people won't support either "B" or "C".
Now you're in a pickle. And I know it's not a perfect parallel, and the percentages aren't meant to be a direct reflection, but it's sort of where we are now. Naturally the "A" people feel cheated (they were the majority of those who were running, so I understand that sentiment), but they still fell short.
The more you examine it, this really is a no win. It's not often when this happens, but it does expose a lot of underlying mischief and backroom dealing that makes the average citizen sick to their stomach. And that's never going to translate to a positive momentum.
.
-
I would say that, for the most part, most modern politicians can't be trusted. Way too many say whatever it takes to get elected leading the voters to believe one thing about them, only to discover they will all too easily compromise with ideas the voters don't want them to even consider discussing. In that respect, they could be viewed as scumbags.
--------------
But more back to the topic, this whole matter is coming down to how it's perceived by the public, and that perception is that the process is unfair. Now one could argue the validity of that, but as it stands people feel cheated.
I think there's things that could be done to alleviate that problem, but that's not to say changing won't create other problems. But here it is:
1) No caucuses, only primaries.
2) No open primaries
3) Delegates assigned to candidates in proportion to popular vote (no "winner take all")
For the most part, that eliminates the "Were aren't being represented and the insiders are deciding our candidate for us" issue.
A problem is what to do with delegates assigned to a candidate that eventually drops out. I guess they could be free to vote however, or delegates could be re-appropriated to those candidates remaining based upon how they did in that State's election, or any number of other ideas. But, like I said, these all have their own problems.
See, here's the issue.
Let's say you got 3 candidates (A, B & C) and here's how the votes falls.
A= 48%
B= 26%
C= 26%
In a straight up majority winner, "A" should be the nominee. But they don't have enough (50%+, let's say) to get them over the top.
But, "B" people will support "C" but not "A", and "C" people will support "B" and not "A", and "A" people won't support either "B" or "C".
Now you're in a pickle. And I know it's not a perfect parallel, and the percentages aren't meant to be a direct reflection, but it's sort of where we are now. Naturally the "A" people feel cheated (they were the majority of those who were running, so I understand that sentiment), but they still fell short.
The more you examine it, there really is a no win. It's not often when this happens, but it does expose a lot of underlying mischief and backroom dealing that makes the average citizen sick to their stomach. And that's never going to translate to a positive momentum.
Because each state's parties decide which process to use, the challenge will be to convince each of those 150 state parties that your solution is preferable to their process.
-
Because each state's parties decide which process to use, the challenge will be to convince each of those 150 state parties that your solution is preferable to their process.
Oh yeah, I doubt they'd go for it. I was just thinking out loud about how to stop those who feel they're being cheated. I mean, I have some empathy for them.
We were raised where if you were one of 30 kids in 5th grade on a field trip, and when lunch time rolls around 16 vote to go to McDonald's and 14 vote you go to Burger King, you go to McDonalds. At least we can see the fairness in that. I know you know what I'm trying to say. But people are having a rough time with this being fair, and I get it. It's one thing to talk about kids eating burgers, but it's a whole other level when people believe their votes don't really matter (and on some level they're right), whether that's a fully justified feeling or not.
.
-
I'll add one more item.
A Representative Republic can be a messy system. Direct Democracies would be even worse. Given a choice, I'll take a Republic any day of the week.
.
-
I'll add one more item.
A Representative Republic can be a messy system. Direct Democracies would be even worse. Given a choice, I'll take a Republic any day of the week.
.
With a democracy, you worry about the "tyranny of the majority", with our system, we've seen the tyranny of the minority.
-
Oh yeah, I doubt they'd go for it. I was just thinking out loud about how to stop those who feel they're being cheated. I mean, I have some empathy for them.
We were raised where if you were one of 30 kids in 5th grade on a field trip, and when lunch time rolls around 16 vote to go to McDonald's and 14 vote you go to Burger King, you go to McDonalds. At least we can see the fairness in that. I know you know what I'm trying to say. But people are having a rough time with this being fair, and I get it. It's one thing to talk about kids eating burgers, but it's a whole other level when people believe their votes don't really matter (and on some level they're right), whether that's a fully justified feeling or not.
The only way to quell the cries of cheating are to publish the rules up front (and they were) and enforce the rules accordingly (which, from all appearances, has happened). Anyone whining after that is a sore loser.
No one complains about the tackle eligible play in football, because it is part of the rules going into the game. Is it intended to trick the other team? Of course. Is it legal? Yes.
-
The only way to quell the cries of cheating are to publish the rules up front (and they were) and enforce the rules accordingly (which, from all appearances, has happened). Anyone whining after that is a sore loser.
Oh, I agree the rules are the rules and they were there to be known. I'm more addressing the sentiment of the average voter who feels cheated. I mean we could call them sore losers, but that isn't going to help the situation. Most people who want change for a $1 will take 4 quarters. It's when they believed all along they were getting 4 quarters but it turns out they were getting wooden nickels..... It may be their fault for not investigating and knowing, but for now telling them that's not helping the situation.
There's a chance a whole bunch of conservative voters are going to walk over this. That's not good. The party leaders, in their self-anointed infinite wisdom, should have seen this coming and done something about it before it ever got this far. But they didn't want to because they thought they could control the situation. Well, they could have controlled the situation if everyone was working, making good money, and there weren't a bunch of loafers and illegals sponging off everyone else, and gov't wasn't growing like it's on steroids. But they let that happen, too, or probably even approved of it, which has kick started a whole bunch of other things.
These party insiders hate conservatives. Stupid on their part. Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. This will eventually end ugly. It may be soon, it may be in 100 years, but it will end ugly.
.
-
The more you examine it, this really is a no win. It's not often when this happens, but it does expose a lot of underlying mischief and backroom dealing that makes the average citizen sick to their stomach. And that's never going to translate to a positive momentum.
And imagine if that kind of "back room dealing" didn't go on...we'd have never had Abraham Lincoln as President. Though he lost in 1976 because of that kind of "backroom dealing"...it's what propelled and motivated Ronald Reagan to run again in 1980 and win in the manner that he did...twice.
I mean how much "backroom dealing" went on just to get the Constitution and the Bill of Rights passed by the states? From Madison's notes and the journal that GW kept during the Constitutional Convention it was a lot.
Just sayin...
-
And imagine if that kind of "back room dealing" didn't go on...we'd have never had Abraham Lincoln as President. Though he lost in 1976 because of that kind of "backroom dealing"...it's what propelled and motivated Ronald Reagan to run again in 1980 and win in the manner that he did...twice.
Oh sure, it happens. It's just there's certain times that it happens where, given the individual observing, it's more sleazy than others. Right now, you just got a whole bunch of people who are reaching the opinion that it's backhanded in a bad way.
Once again I'm just expressing what I'm seeing and reading from those who are currently viewing the process as less than on the up-and-up. I can see their point. And once you become suspicious of one part of the process, it tends to cascade from there into other areas where people raise questions. Personally I find it refreshing. If people had done this earlier, maybe gov't wouldn't be as big as the universe and $20 trillion in debt.
.
-
Oh sure, it happens. It's just there's certain times that it happens where, given the individual observing, it's more sleazy than others. Right now, you just got a whole bunch of people who are reaching the opinion that it's backhanded in a bad way.
Once again I'm just expressing what I'm seeing and reading from those who are currently viewing the process as less than on the up-and-up. I can see their point. And once you become suspicious of one part of the process, it tends to cascade from there into other areas where people raise questions. Personally I find it refreshing. If people had done this earlier, maybe gov't wouldn't be as big as the universe and $20 trillion in debt.
.
Yup I agree.
-
I think on both sides of the aisle we have forgotten who are real enemies are. The Dems and the GOPe which works in collusion with them. We're so damn busy calling each other names and arguing which candidate is the Devil himself I'd be surprised if some people even remembered the liberals still exist. Meanwhile we have Kasich hanging on like an anchor dragging down both candidates and Ryan swearing he isn't running (even though ads for him have been running).
No matter which side you're on. One thing generally we can agree on is the GOPe screwed us. They are more than likely planning to screw us again while we're at each other's throats.
-
I think on both sides of the aisle we have forgotten who are real enemies are. The Dems and the GOPe which works in collusion with them. We're so damn busy calling each other names and arguing which candidate is the Devil himself I'd be surprised if some people even remembered the liberals still exist. Meanwhile we have Kasich hanging on like an anchor dragging down both candidates and Ryan swearing he isn't running (even though ads for him have been running).
No matter which side you're on. One thing generally we can agree on is the GOPe screwed us. They are more than likely planning to screw us again while we're at each other's throats.
Very true.
-
So the Founding Fathers were "corrupt scumbags"? Reagan was a "corrupt scumbag"?
You realize that if you yourself became a politician you'd become a "corrupt scumbag" as well right?
Yup, most likely that's where I'd end up
-
It's really kind of sad. The democrats are running two of the weakest candidates in decades, and the GOP is looking for a way to hand one of them the election.
I still think Trump's goal from the start was to wreck the gop and make sure Hillary was elected.
This whole thing could have been avoided if the GOP wasn't averse to conservative ideals.
Seems like a lot of so called conservatives are averse to conservative ideals.
-
I have never in my life gone into vote in a Presidential election to vote for the Republican! It has always been to vote against the Democrat and I'm 61 and holding my nose once again!
-
Hey! President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho was a better leader (and a better wrestler) than Trump. At least Camacho knew when he didn't know something. You're being unfair to Camacho!
Monday Night Rehabilitation for you!
Either one still preferable to Hitlery.