The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dutch508 on March 11, 2016, 08:51:21 AM
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MowCowWhoHow III (884 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141372444
American tourist killed in Tel Aviv attack: Israeli police
this should go well.
iandhr (5,760 posts)
1. These stabbings are terrorism.
But I am sure some of the usual suspects will be around here shortly to justify this.
SoCalMusicLover (1,141 posts)
35. Different In One Way. Had it been here in the good 'ol 2nd Amendment U.S.A., he would have had his choice of firearm(s), and could have raised the death count plenty.
Israelis have more guns per person than California, btw.
6chars (2,714 posts)
4. this was a Palestinian gesture for Biden
At the time of the murder, Biden was meeting with Shimon Peres at the Peres Peace Center a mile away Jaffa.
6chars (2,714 posts)
50. State department takes a "balanced" approach
"We continue to encourage all parties to take affirmative steps to reduce tensions and restore calm"
Jesus H. Christ, the victim here was a US Veteran who served tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't want to get all military rah rah, but I would really like to see the White House say something a little stronger.
Bad Dog (594 posts)
22. I've posted a list of all the dead. You can see for yourself.
Most Palestinians were killed during demonstrations and the facts behind a lot of the "terrorist" killings are disputed. This is the effect, the cause is the occupation and the illegal settlements.
As I've said before it's a load of senseless deaths all round, and most of the deaths are Palestinian.
Bad Dog is pro-Pali and blames Israel for murdering poor innocent Pals.
leftynyc (18,176 posts)
16. What crap
The Palestinians have been on a stabbing spree for almost a year already. If there nothing someone wont find a ****ing excuse for if it trashes Israel? Apparently not.
Fast Walker 52 (1,624 posts)
18. the sad fact is this is how desperate the Palestinians are
they are fighting a modern police state with knives.
The Palestinians have tried everything, including non-violent protests, but their rights are trampled every day, in so many ways. Israel is reaping what they sowed.
A police state? Democratic government, Allows all forms of Religion within it's borders, allows gays to live freely without throwing them off buildings, Women can vote, drive, wear bikinis... that's a police state.
King_David (13,970 posts)
34. It's a tiny minority of Americans that are so anti Israel
and every last one of them are here on DU.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=125462
As well as the extreme minority left here's also a contingent of far right wing Americans that are extremely anti Israel , witness the David Duke crowd.
iandhr (5,760 posts)
30. The new far left loves Hamas
The rise of the leftist Jeremy Corbyn to the leadership of Britain’s opposition Labour Party appears to have empowered a far left for whom support of the Palestinians is uncritical and for whom, in the words of Alan Johnson, a British political theorist, “that which the demonological Jew once was, demonological Israel now is.â€
Corbyn is no anti-Semite. But he has called Hamas and Hezbollah agents of “long-term peace and social justice and political justice in the whole region,†and once invited to Parliament a Palestinian Islamist, Raed Salah, who has suggested Jews were absent from the World Trade Center on 9/11. Corbyn called him an “honored citizen.â€
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/08/opinion/an-anti-semitism-of-the-left.html?_r=0
iandhr (5,760 posts)
27. Yes yes yes....
People who call for the blog of martyrs are non-violent, people who randomly stab civilians in the street are non violent, people who launch rockets at civilians are non-violent. These people believe that by killing Jews they will get into heaven and they need to be dealt with.
I am not surprised to see DU's Hamas fan club out in full force.
Marrah_G (27,955 posts)
54. It's always close to 10 Palestinians for each Israeli.
Bad Dog (594 posts)
32. It's a mystery all right.
Why are so many disaffected young people turning to fundamentalist Islam when democratic, moderate opposition has achieved so much. Mahmoud Abbas has stopped the building of illegal settlements and the Palestinians can go about their business without being harassed by the IDF. The success of the Libyan Free Army has ensured a Democratic Utopia now exist in Syria, and Egypt is a now a Democracy no longer ruled by a dictator.
Why on Earth would anyone embrace fundamentalism and terrorism when the moderates have achieved so much?
:thatsright:
Bad Dog (594 posts)
57. Because what Hamas says is far worse than what the IDF does.
Hamas' Charter calls for the elimination of the State of Israel, not the Jews, and it's largely rhetorical. The Ulster Unionists found Sinn Fein's position on a United Ireland just as problematic. If we'd insisted Sinn Fein drop it, the Troubles would still be ongoing.
Hamas are quite prepared to call long term cease fires up to 20 years. After 20 years of peace people aren't going to want to turn back. Look how isolated the few dissident Republicans in Northern Ireland are now even though Sinn Fein hasn't altered its position in any way.
Netanyahu is using Hamas' Charter as an excuse to create facts on the ground, increase illegal settlement building and the destruction of Palestinian homes. That's what's happening right now. Hamas were initially funded by the State of Israel in the first place in order to destabilise Fatah and split the Palestinians. Hamas at least, like Sinn Fein, can be negotiated with, the alternative is to let IS linked groups like Islamic Jihad take over.
The only viable solution is to sit down and talk to all parties including Hamas. Unfortunately the last Israeli leader brave enough to embrace peace, Yitzhak Rabin, was murdered by Israeli terrorists. And Netanyahu has never been interested in peace.
And that is why Northern Ireland is relatively peaceful and economically viable whilst Israel/Palestine is a mess. Only the occupier can stop the occupation.
King_David (13,970 posts)
66. The whole post is rubbish,
Hamas is a Jew and Gay hating terrorist organization ,and talks about Jews not Israelis ,and to see someone defending this antiZionist, antisemitic,homophobic hate group here on DU ( a Democratic Party supporting website) is disgraceful.
Bad Dog (594 posts)
82. Only the occupier can stop the occupation.
Name calling isn't a one way street. I've already posted a link to racist graffiti daubed on Palestinian homes in Hebron.
Hamas has observed several cease fires all of which have been broken by Israel.
The one who isn't remotely interested in peace is Netanyahu, that's why he's creating facts on the ground by continuing to build illegal settlements.
Making peace requires talking to people you don't like. We did it in Northern Ireland. The only reason it's not happening in Israel is because Netanyahu thinks he can get more the way things are. The last Israeli leader who was serious about peace was Yitzhak Rabin which is why he was murdered by Israeli terrorists.
Don't try to justify the brutality of the occupation by blaming the Palestinians. It doesn't wash.
Bradical79 (1,586 posts)
71. Confused by the BBC article
Is the stabbing related to the other attacks? Is it all thought to be coordinated or result/reaction of something?
:banghead:
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every now and then we get a peek behind the mask.
The left is riddled with hate like a cancer.
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I'm impressed and a bit surprised at some of the pro Israel sentiment on that thread. The "Bad Dogs" of the world don't surprise me unfortunately. What Fast Walker says about how the Palestinians have tried everything shows how the history of that conflict is completely absent from his mind.
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141372969
Another thread about it. Same leftist bullshit
ericson00 (1,517 posts)
1. tragic: another victim of radical jihad hence why America must always stand with her ally the Jewish State of Israel
markj757 (79 posts)
2. that's bull&$#@
We need to stand on the side of justice and morality, and the suffering and collective punishment of the Palestinian people at the hands of Israel is abhorrent
branford (3,993 posts)
3. It was just and moral to kill a American student in Israel on a school trip (or any of the other civilians)?
Whatever "side" you claim to be standing on supports the murder of civilians in pursuit of political goals. In the USA and our Democratic Platform, we call that terrorism.
I don't believe "justice" and "morality" mean what you think they mean.
markj757 (79 posts)
4. that's ridiculous...Where in my response did I call the killing of an American student just and moral. I only addressed the issue of Israel's treatment of Palestinians and the poster's comment that we need to stand with the "Jewish" state of Israel. For one, Israel has Christians and Muslims as well, so we stand with countries not one specific religion of a country. And we also need to stand for what is just and moral, and just because Israel is an American ally, that doesn't mean we stand by while the people of Palestine are persecuted for having the audacity to want to live on their own land.
markj757 (79 posts)
6. I absolutely agree....
Last edited Thu Mar 10, 2016, 08:41 AM - Edit history (1)
the poster just pissed me off with that radical jihad bull%@#$. The Palestinian people are fighting for their right to exist, and live in freedom on their own land, not some radical jihad campaign to terrorize the west for what they feel are a legacy of evil acts against them. Trying to lump the Palestinians into that group, is a cowardly attempt to dehumanize their struggle, and brush them with the broad stroke of being terrorist.
It is a tragedy when any life is loss, be it American, Palestinian, or Israeli, and whether people have the courage to admit it or not, we all know who is David and who is Goliath in this tragedy, in a country that is fast becoming nothing more than an apartheid state.
markj757 (79 posts)
9. What propagandist talking points....
Does Hamas use terrorist tactics to fight against a powerful military and country in the middle east. Absolutely. Does Israel use terror, collective punishment, and an apartheid like system to try and contain and isolate Palestinians while slowing stealing their land. Absolutely. Acts of terror are not immune on either side, but the amount of lives lost, the humiliation and misery is much more greatly felt by Palestinians.
And if Israel has supposedly offered the Palestinians such a sweet deal, let's see what happens when the UN finally calls them on it, which I hope will be very soon. Especially, if the Obama admin has anything to say about it. God help us, but even Trump may be willing to call them on it.
And yes, I didn't stutter, the Palestinians are fighting for their right exist and live in peace on their own land, in charge of their own future. That's who the **** is fighting, and I have no doubt, that in the end, they will succeed. Because the arc of the universe is long, but it definitely bends toward justice.
markj757 (79 posts)
11. Actually....
Everything thing I posted is well within the Democratic Party mainstream, just not the Democratic Party political leadership class. But times are a changing, thanks to the help of Obama and Bibi's tense and sometimes outright disrespectful relationship with him, and our voices are growing louder and louder.
maxsolomon (13,099 posts)
12. I'm speaking of the individuals perpetrating these stabbings, not Hamas
I think there is despair among the Arab youth. Aren't some of them being perpetrated by teenage girls?
I'm not excusing anything, or calling for more murders. No Terrorist is waiting on my permission. Drop your hyperbole. Hyperbole is one of the problems in the conflict.
Israel can always withdraw from the West Bank pre-emptively.
maxsolomon (13,099 posts)
17. because I/P is a unique situation?
There are innocents being murdered all over the planet every day, but there is no situation analogous to I/P. Perhaps china's cultural appropriation of Tibet, but they're Buddhists, not Abrahamic Monotheists, so they are less disposed to violence. The Tamil Tigers may have been analogous, but they were exterminated.
I would say that you appear predisposed to not see any gray areas regarding Israel and the occupation of the West Bank. You're certainly not alone; I watched the GOP debate last night.
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markj757 (79 posts)
11. Actually....
Everything thing I posted is well within the Democratic Party mainstream, just not the Democratic Party political leadership class. But times are a changing, thanks to the help of Obama and Bibi's tense and sometimes outright disrespectful relationship with him, and our voices are growing louder and louder.
Obama has made it cool to be openly anti-Semitic and to embrace Islamic terrorists.
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Israelis have more guns per person than California, btw.
It was interesting to see people...mainly IDF soldiers standing at a bus stop with their M-16's slung over their shoulder.
BTW...the DUmmies will give the Pali scum a pass IMHO...the victim was a West Point Graduate and served as a gun bunny for 5 years.
The dead guy is automatically to blame at DU.
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Fixed!
markj757 (79 posts)
9. What propagandist talking points....
Does Hamas use terrorist tactics to kill Jews? Absolutely. Does Israel use terror, collective punishment, and an apartheid like system to try and contain and isolate Palestinians while slowing stealing their land. No. Acts of terror are not immune on either side, but the amount of lives lost, the humiliation and misery is much more greatly felt by Palestinians says Palestinian leaders who proudly send other Palestinians to their deaths for the sole purpose of killing Jews, maintaining instability, and securing their own personal power.
And if Israel has supposedly offered the Palestinians such a sweet any number of deals, over and over and over and over again, let's see what happens when the UN finally calls them on it, and says "hey, we offered both sides a shitty deal pre 1948, the Jews accepted and made lemonade from lemons, when will you guys change your motivation from "killing Jews" to "wanting a sovereign nation and having control over your own destiny?" which I hope will be very soon. Especially, if the Obama admin has anything to say other than "FU Israel" about it. god help us, but even Trump doesn't really have anything to say about it other than whatever will attract a wider group of voters.
And yes, I didn't stutter, although I did wet myself, the Palestinians are fighting to kill Jews and kill Jews on land that was offered to them but they've rejected it and instead have decided to kill Jews, in charge of their own future. That's who the **** is fighting, and I have no doubt, that in the end, they will succeed in killing Jews. Because the arc of the universe is long, but it definitely bends toward my personal, emotionally based, non logical view of justice that ultimately involves killing Jews and me being a complete moron.