The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dutch508 on February 16, 2016, 12:58:27 PM
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Herman4747 (465 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172187236
Now that Scalia has died, are gun-lovers feeling quite worried?
After all, both the Heller and McDonald v. Chicago decisions were 5 to 4 decisions, with the CONSERVATIVES on the U.S. Supreme Court favoring SELFISH PROPERTY RIGHTS and the LIBERALS on the court favoring THE RIGHT TO LIFE.
Antonin Scalia was NOT one of the liberals, but instead was one of the conservatives. Now he is gone.
Let us reflect on one of the statements of one of the liberal justices: "In sum, the Framers did not write the Second Amendment in order to protect a private right of armed self defense. There has been, and is, no consensus that the right is, or was, 'fundamental.'"
-- Justice Stephen Breyer, appointed by Bill Clinton. And now, Justice Breyer awaits a new colleague. Are gun-lovers everywhere going to do what they can to stall the replacement of Scalia?
Is the right to have a particular piece of property, a gun, so crucial to them that they would do what they can so that a Republican president can appoint Scalia's replacement?
We shall have to see.
:thatsright:
ileus (13,765 posts)
3. Wonder why we rejoice in thinking we're going to get a banner seated, when we say a ban isn't what we want, but instead insist it "common sense" gun control?
Are we being dishonest.
Um... yes.
Nuclear Unicorn (18,052 posts)
6. Any other USSC precedents up for grabs?
Brown v Board of Education?
Roe v Wade?
Lawrence v State of Texas?
By the way, the 2A is no more about property rights than the 4A is, which is to say, not at all.
::)
DonP (5,551 posts)
8. Talk about wishful thinking by the control minded!
So, because the court will now be tilted to the left, you think that all those pesky 2nd amendment decisions you don't like, or understand for that matter, will be shortly overturned?
Soooo if that's the way the court works, then why didn't that Conservative court overturn the ACA, Roe v Wade, Gay Marriage and all those other cases the right doesn't agree with when they had the chance and the majority?
Here's a hint ... because that's not the way SCOTUS works. It may be influenced politically, but the truly dim bulbs out there actually think of it as a purely political tool. It ain't.
Or are you all suggesting that Justices Ginsburg, Sotomayer, Kagan, Breyer et. al are nothing more than political hacks that should do your or any political types bidding?
First, they can only decide existing cases that; 1. reach SCOTUS from lower courts and represent a constitutional conflict among the appellate courts and 2. a majority of the judges have to agree to accept for consideration, e.g. grant Certorari.
Second the court is loathe to take a case that will overturn their own established precedent, e.g. Stare Decisis. The typical time for reversing a decision runs historically into the decades, not a few weeks or even years.
Third, the chances of any outspoken gun control type getting approved by the Senate ... are about zilch.
So all the grave dancing might be a little premature.
::)
discntnt_irny_srcsm (10,920 posts)
13. Now if I was a ban minded control happy Chicago or DC politician...
...I would decide that I could just go back to business (banning) as usual and wait for the case(s) to reach the SC figuring 'the fix is in."
MohRokTah (12,106 posts)
17. The legal interpretation of the 2nd amendment is going to be altered. There can be no doubt about that simple fact.
Nuclear Unicorn (18,052 posts)
38. Yes, and the purpose of the militia is to guarantee a free state, not "The State."
The militia is not in service to the federal government. It is protecting a quality of the organized community, not a particular government construct. Any suggestion to the contrary would be to infer that those who had just concluded a civil war with the British crown (a war started when the Crown sought to seize civilian arms caches). Obedience to government was not on their list of priorities and it was the militia that formed no small portion of that effort.
Moreover, the militia provides its own arms hence the clause, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" (notice it acknowledges a pre-existing right) "shall not be infringed."
It would seem to most context-worthy interpretation of the amendment would be --
Groups of citizens are the best defense of a community's freedom. So for that reason the right of the people to obtain and possess military-grade weapons shall not be infringed upon by the government.
Nuclear Unicorn (18,052 posts)
40. "Well-Regulated" doesn't mean "constrained to the point in inoperability"
If controllers were as eager for the 2A's militia clause as they pretend they would be insisting the best functioning military grade weapons be made available.
And as to your title, these states are part of a union of states, a United States, if you will.
I will not, as your claim has no basis in fact. Whenever the Constitution refers to the states as political entities it does so unambiguously, i.e. "the several states."
Even if we permitted "a free state" to mean what you claim it still does nothing to diminish my interpretation that a quality is of greater precedent than a political entity. Are we really to the point we are claiming the people are constitutionally required to defend their own oppressors, if it were to come to such a thing?
As to the supposed function of protecting a community, there are police and a state National Guard.
The police and formal military were the ones being fought against in the War of Independence.
Additionally --
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311
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They could have my guns, if I hadn't lost them in a tragic boating accident.
So, it was late. We had no lights on the boat since none of us made $15 per hour and couldn't afford them. A cop came by in a skiff and asked what we were doing. We told him we were arguing whether or not Bernie is the best solution to the countrys problems. He admitted he was a hard core conservative, but that we had valid points and he'd certainly consider our position.
Then, without warning, we ran into another boat, then another, then boats started running into each other. In the end, 47 boats were lost and 1,452 firearms fell into the water.
That is a true story.
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They could have my guns, if I hadn't lost them in a tragic boating accident.
So, it was late. We had no lights on the boat since none of us made $15 per hour and couldn't afford them. A cop came by in a skiff and asked what we were doing. We told him we were arguing whether or not Bernie is the best solution to the countrys problems. He admitted he was a hard core conservative, but that we had valid points and he'd certainly consider our position.
Then, without warning, we ran into another boat, then another, then boats started running into each other. In the end, 47 boats were lost and 1,452 firearms fell into the water.
That is a true story.
I call a bouncy on this story, clearly everyone knows that Bernie is too good for us and thus no argument can be made on his ability to cure all of this countries ill's.
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Please campaign on this DUmbasses!
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They could have my guns, if I hadn't lost them in a tragic boating accident.
So, it was late. We had no lights on the boat since none of us made $15 per hour and couldn't afford them. A cop came by in a skiff and asked what we were doing. We told him we were arguing whether or not Bernie is the best solution to the countrys problems. He admitted he was a hard core conservative, but that we had valid points and he'd certainly consider our position.
Then, without warning, we ran into another boat, then another, then boats started running into each other. In the end, 47 boats were lost and 1,452 firearms fell into the water.
That is a true story.
The EPA would like to have a word with you...
:-)
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I call a bouncy on this story, clearly everyone knows that Bernie is too good for us and thus no argument can be made on his ability to cure all of this countries ill's.
As a matter of fact, the girl with us started crying, saying, "he's too good for us".
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The EPA would like to have a word with you...
:-)
Heh.
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"He's too good for us, Mama."
What is this DonP doing at the DUmp? He sounds reasonable and even knowledgeable.
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"He's too good for us, Mama."
What is this DonP doing at the DUmp? He sounds reasonable and even knowledgeable.
I've interacted with him over there. He has some snap to him. He lives in Illinois and apparently gives gun classes per Illinois law. He and Nuclear Unicorn are two I wonder why they're there.
Their politics, (IF, IF it is as they say it is), are way left so they wouldn't really fit in here (although, maybe they would, if their politics really isn't left).
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Nuclear Unicorn
If controllers were as eager for the 2A's militia clause as they pretend they would be insisting the best functioning military grade weapons be made available.
I want my,
I want my,
I want my M-16!
Nuclear Unicorn, I think I love you.
But I gotta know for sure...
Will you make me sammiches?
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Herman4747 (465 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172187236
Now that Scalia has died, are gun-lovers feeling quite worried?
So Herman4747, tell us, is it a felony drug conviction or domestic battery conviction (or both) that keeps you from purchasing firearms?
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No Herman, I don't feel worried. I'm still armed and I'm not afraid of death. Unlike you DU mutts I believe in the afterlife and I'll stand at the right hand of God if I'm murdered by my government.
Edit: autocorrect got me.
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Please campaign on this DUmbasses!
I am collectivisimmustdie, and I support this message.
Hi-5
CMD
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I want my,
I want my,
I want my M-16!
Nuclear Unicorn, I think I love you.
But I gotta know for sure...
Will you make me sammiches?
She married a conservative Army vet.
I bet she keeps a smile on his face.
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She married a conservative Army vet.
I bet she keeps a smile on his face.
Yet another reason the DUmp hags are against free market solutions.
CMD
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They could have my guns, if I hadn't lost them in a tragic boating accident.
So, it was late. We had no lights on the boat since none of us made $15 per hour and couldn't afford them. A cop came by in a skiff and asked what we were doing. We told him we were arguing whether or not Bernie is the best solution to the countrys problems. He admitted he was a hard core conservative, but that we had valid points and he'd certainly consider our position.
Then, without warning, we ran into another boat, then another, then boats started running into each other. In the end, 47 boats were lost and 1,452 firearms fell into the water.
That is a true story.
I was in one of those boats, I remember it well, lost 42 guns that night.
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She married a conservative Army vet.
I bet she keeps a smile on his face.
No doubt. I simply can't believe her politics are as far left (excepting gun rights), as she puts on.
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She married a conservative Army vet.
I bet she keeps a smile on his face.
She chose... wisely.
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I was in one of those boats, I remember it well, lost 42 guns that night.
I remember you. You were the one screaming, "I lost 42 guns, DAMMIT!".
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DonP (5,551 posts)
8. Talk about wishful thinking by the control minded!
...
Or are you all suggesting that Justices Ginsburg, Sotomayer, Kagan, Breyer et. al are nothing more than political hacks that should do your or any political types bidding?
...
That is it in a nutshell.
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Herman4747 (465 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172187236
Now that Scalia has died, are gun-lovers feeling quite worried?
After all, both the Heller and McDonald v. Chicago decisions were 5 to 4 decisions, with the CONSERVATIVES on the U.S. Supreme Court favoring SELFISH PROPERTY RIGHTS and the LIBERALS on the court favoring THE RIGHT TO LIFE.
Antonin Scalia was NOT one of the liberals, but instead was one of the conservatives. Now he is gone.
Let us reflect on one of the statements of one of the liberal justices: "In sum, the Framers did not write the Second Amendment in order to protect a private right of armed self defense. There has been, and is, no consensus that the right is, or was, 'fundamental.'"
-- Justice Stephen Breyer, appointed by Bill Clinton. And now, Justice Breyer awaits a new colleague. Are gun-lovers everywhere going to do what they can to stall the replacement of Scalia?
Is the right to have a particular piece of property, a gun, so crucial to them that they would do what they can so that a Republican president can appoint Scalia's replacement?
We shall have to see.
And the 4 liberal justices along with the swing vote (can't remember the name) confirmed that local governments can take your real estate property for commercial use in Kelo vs New London.
You dummie were all pissed off about that.
That ruling caused a bunch of red states to clarify eminent domain laws for public use only. What makes you idiots think that the red states won't do the same with firearm rights?
You dummies are idiots. When the USSC starts infringing upon one right, the rest will fall. Then whatcha gonna do when the federal government decides you ain't speaking truth to power, but fomenting unrest and tosses your asses in the clink?
DU you would not exist if there were not people like us at CC.
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That ruling caused a bunch of red states to clarify eminent domain laws for public use only. What makes you idiots think that the red states won't do the same with firearm rights?
It's a bad time for liberals, too. a majority of states are currently under full republican control. Lots of local LEO's have already said that they won't enforce any of Obama's gun control laws.
So what happens if the USSC did overturn Heller? Hm, liberal cities and states would move forward with their gun laws which criminals would ignore and they would have free rein to kill liberals. Cool Beans.