The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dutch508 on January 23, 2016, 02:41:50 PM
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KingCharlemagne (5,375 posts)
Something that has been bothering me: just how bad would a President Trump or President Cruz be, presiding over a (presumably) Republican Congress with the power to appoint members of SCOTUS and the federal judiciary (with few or no blocks to their confirmation)? Would there be any remaining institutional checks on a President Trump or Cruz?
One of my Socialist comrades posted this in response to my stating my fears: "one party temporarily holding a strong majority (does not) mean a 'one-party fascist state' ". He pooh-poohs the idea that a President Trump or Cruz would be demonstrably worse than a President Sanders or Clinton. He therefore implies that I am letting my fears get the best of my good sense.
So why am I so frightened of a Trump or Cruz presidency? Are my fears overblown? Or am I correct to be scared shitless?
:rotf:
shraby (16,903 posts)
1. That scenario is precisely why the process to change the constitution is so arduous, with the states and the congress involved.
The idiots you named cannot do much on their own, or even with the help of congress. They need a majority of the states to also agree.
Doesn't seem to me that the R side of the room wants to change the constitution.
Maedhros (8,353 posts)
5. You are so frightened of a Trump or Cruz presidency because the Democratic Party's
sole campaign strategy is to make you so afraid of the Republicans that you don't look too closely at the Democrats' capitulation to corporate America.
To paraphrase from Aaron Sorkin's The American President (1995):
(The Establishment Democrats') problem isn't that (they don't) get it. (Their) problem is that (they) can't sell it! We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, I promise you, (Establishment Democrats are) not the least bit interested in solving it. (They are) interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections.
KingCharlemagne (5,375 posts)
8. Hold up there a sec. I'm a real Democratic Socialist and not a faux one like the Social Democrat Bernie Sanders.
So unless you are using the 'you' rhetorically and not for me personally, I'm all too aware of the Democratic Party's devil's dance with capitalism.
That said, I would remind you that Hitler first eliminated the Socialists and Communists before he turned his attention and malevolence to the Jews and other "undesirables". So there is more than a little self-interest involved in my post.
:whatever:
Maedhros (8,353 posts)
21. I suspect that establishment Republicans will find a way to undercut Trump.
They've been chafing under the lunacy of the Tea Party for years now - they created a monster, and lost control of it. I doubt they want to give Trump the keys to the kingdom.
Consider the cannon shot that the National Review just fired across Trump's bow:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/trump-nationalreview-218079
National Review is dedicating a special issue of its magazine, one week before the Iowa caucuses, to stopping Trump. “Against Trump,†blares the magazine cover. Inside, a blistering editorial questions Trump's commitment to conservatism, warning voters that backing him is tantamount to allowing the conservative movement to have “fallen in behind a huckster.â€
"Trump is a philosophically unmoored political opportunist who would trash the broad conservative ideological consensus within the GOP in favor of a free-floating populism with strong-man overtones,†the editorial reads.
I agree that Trump's rhetoric is about as disgusting as is possible for an American politician, and the fact that he can openly call for Nazi policies and be cheered is indicative of a problem that is bigger than Trump himself. But our system of government is not quite as shaky as the Weimar Republic - yet.
So either Trump is a fake conservative and really a leftist trying to destroy the country or/AND a far right NAZI in TEA party colors trying to bring back the confederacy. :???:
He may be one or possibly (but doubtfully) the other but he can't be both.
MariaThinks (223 posts)
16. really? A supreme court filled with 7 scalias is not scary? they will remove union rights, dismantle all worker protections, get rid of ACA and any hope of single pay medicine, remove environmental protections. I'm not sure what would scare you.
Since I'm in the top .5% i'll benefit financially, but will feel bad for the rest of the country and the world.
Yup! The right-wing will:
Force back women and men to marry and have 2.5 children.
Require all people to attend a protestant church 3 times a week and twice on Sunday
Outlaw abortion except for black or brown babies
Make every man carry a gun at all times
Outlaw not working forcing everyone to be wage slaves for no money
Return to hard school standards forcing stupid people to not go to college
Teach only white history
Outlaw Jews Catholics Muslims Hindus and 'other' from the job market other than 7/11 owners, Hotel management, taxi services, and hard farming labor
... what am I missing?
OH- Mandatory wars with the draft for only minority men and women.
liberal N proud (50,293 posts)
6. One only needs to look at the disasterous period when bu$h and Cheney started 2 wars That would give us a glimpse of how bad it would be, wars, recessions and poverty beyond compare would be the expectation if Trump or Cruz get in the Oval Office.
Your fears are not overblown.
::)
phantom power (25,535 posts)
7. Well, if guys like Cruz temporarily controlled all 3 branches of govt...
they could undo basically everything good that happened in the last 100 years, if they so chose.
They could destroy social security. They could get us into some more endless wars. They could sell off every acre of federal land to extraction industries. They could make abortion and birth control illegal....
I'm sure I'm forgetting some good stuff, but you get the idea.
And that's assuming they don't just take control, "handmaid's tale" style, or Nazi style. In my opinion, anybody who thinks Trump wouldn't attempt that isn't paying attention to what he's saying and doing, and what his fans are like.
Retrograde (4,148 posts)
23. Supreme Court and other Federal appointments
Someone else mentioned a court full of Scalias - I dread a court with more Thomases echoing Alito's reactionary opinions.
Aside from Federal judgeships, the president gets to appoint cabinet secretaries and ambassadors who reflect his policies. Can you picture a cadre of Palin clones representing the US abroad?
The president also has veto power. Even if the electorate come to their senses in 2018 and elect a solid majority to both houses a Republican president can still veto anything they decide to do. (unless the majority is so large they can override vetos)
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Never occurs to them that what they are fearful of with a Republican in the White House is exactly what Obama’s been doing for the last 8 years.
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KingCharlemagne (5,375 posts)
Something that has been bothering me: just how bad would a President Trump or President Cruz be, presiding over a (presumably) Republican Congress with the power to appoint members of SCOTUS and the federal judiciary (with few or no blocks to their confirmation)? Would there be any remaining institutional checks on a President Trump or Cruz?
One of my Socialist comrades posted this in response to my stating my fears: "one party temporarily holding a strong majority (does not) mean a 'one-party fascist state' ". He pooh-poohs the idea that a President Trump or Cruz would be demonstrably worse than a President Sanders or Clinton. He therefore implies that I am letting my fears get the best of my good sense.
So why am I so frightened of a Trump or Cruz presidency? Are my fears overblown? Or am I correct to be scared shitless?
Why are you so frightened? Because you're afraid of the free shit you might potentially lose. Or maybe you're here illegally. Maybe its because, like ALL true DUmmies, your personal scale of political good and bad is twisted and backwards.
I'd say all of the above with a side order of mental illness:
(http://reaction.club/r/hqg-17.gif)
Yes. Yes you are.
CMD
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Never occurs to them that what they are fearful of with a Republican in the White House is exactly what Obama’s been doing for the last 8 years.
Exactly
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Trump and Cruz have all the right people hating on them...from both sides of the aisle.
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phantom power (25,535 posts)
7. Well, if guys like Cruz temporarily controlled all 3 branches of govt...
they could undo basically everything good that happened in the last 100 years, if they so chose.
Never occurs to them that what they are fearful of with a Republican in the White House is exactly what Obama’s been doing for the last 8 years.
Obama, Pelosi and Reid undid the work of 200+ years in just a couple of years.
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Goodness, the DUmmies are so insanely delusional.
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Anyone that thinks the past 7 years of Nobama has been anything but a huge mistake and fears a Trump or Cruz Presidency ,need to be moved to the padded room at the hospital.